In a message dated 14/08/2009 19:28:53 GMT Daylight Time, michael@allbrook.com writes: What I find interesting is that this was a skilled trade worthy of an apprenticeship. Do you believe that that was generally the case? Hi It certainly was a very worthwhile and a very skilled trade. Silver Plating in this way was revolutionised by George Richards Elkington and his methods put the Sheffield Plate industry in the shade. Together with his cousin Henry Elkington, who was a marvellous modeller as well, they created some of the finest plateware for over 50 years. There was nothing that was not worthy of an apprenticeship in this trade. I don't know about the man in question, but canteens of Cutlery and fine silverplated wares graced the tables of many a Royal family including Queen Victoria,. whom ordered a set of cutlery for Buckingham Palace as did the Sultan of Brunei. Every piece made in this manner had to be taken to the local assay office before it could be sold and every silversmith had his own mark. It stands to reason, therefore, that anyone carrying out this trade [which method was fairly new} would be able to carry on a reasonable and profitable business. Try this site. Although it says Sheffield there is a lot about Birmingham and Elkington & Co. and other companies. _http://www.ifranks.com/control/silver_history.html#old_sheffield_plate JUDY ELKINGTON [N. Derbyshire, England] www.elkingtonfamily.com ELKINGTON@rootsweb.com www.one-name.org/profiles/elkington.html _ (http://www.ifranks.com/control/silver_history.html#old_sheffield_plate)

What I find interesting is that this was a skilled trade worthy of an apprenticeship. Do you believe that that was generally the case? If I remember correctly there were some very nasty chemicals involved but when I first started in engineering, plating was not craft. That was in the 1960s but it was dangerous and unpleasant occupation even then. What I do remember is large tanks of chemicals including acids and cyanide, was that for chrome plating? The tanks varied in size according to the object being plated. Thus the size of the operation was determined largely by the size of the object being plated and the volume of work of course Michael Allbrook -----Original Message----- From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mike Fisher Sent: 14 August 2009 14:03 To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B'ham] Electroplating apprenticeship/master Hi Carolyn An apprentice was generally from 14 to 21 (7 years) He could then become a journeyman where he worked for the owner of a business If he set up in business on his own account he became a master. He might employ others or work on his own. Mike Fisher Carolyn Burley wrote: > In 1841 by great-great grandfather was an electroplate apprentice. He was > 14 yrs. In later census reports he has his own business and describes > himself as an Electroplate Master. Does anyone know about such > apprenticeships? were apprenticeships? What would it take to become a "Master"? As a master could he train others? His son became an electroplater as well. For many years his business was located in his residence on Warstone lane. He had a large family. How much space would it take to run such a business? I'd appreciate any information you can provide. Carolyn > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Carolyn An apprentice was generally from 14 to 21 (7 years) He could then become a journeyman where he worked for the owner of a business If he set up in business on his own account he became a master. He might employ others or work on his own. Mike Fisher Carolyn Burley wrote: > In 1841 by great-great grandfather was an electroplate apprentice. He was > 14 yrs. In later census reports he has his own business and describes > himself as an Electroplate Master. Does anyone know about such > apprenticeships? > > How long were apprenticeships? > > What would it take to become a "Master"? As a master could he train others? > His son became an electroplater as well. > > For many years his business was located in his residence on Warstone lane. > He had a large family. How much space would it take to run such a business? > > > I'd appreciate any information you can provide. > > > > Carolyn > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Thanks for your information. It's really helpful. Is the period of journeyman a set amount of time or until the person has acquired a standard of skill? Would he have received papers stating that he was a master electroplater? Unfortunately I don't know where he apprenticed. Is there some way to find out? A listing perhaps??? That would be really helpful. I was able to find him (and his business) listed in a couple of the Trade directories. Best wishes Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of JJupar@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 5:47 AM To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B'ham] Electroplating apprenticeship/master In a message dated 14/08/2009 04:17:09 GMT Daylight Time, caroburley@sympatico.ca writes: How long were apprenticeships? What would it take to become a "Master"? As a master could he train others? His son became an electroplater as well. Hi I believe an apprenticeship lasted for seven years. Do you know where he was apprenticed and with which company. When he had completed his Apprenticeship he would then be allowed to work as a qualified man sometime as a journey man, eventually becoming a Master of his craft. Once he had qualified he would then be allowed to train his son who would have to serve an apprentice ship like his father had done. Birmingham was of course the centre for Silver work and this is where my family came from. They eventually had one of the largest well known companies called Elkington & Co. If you want to read his story, look at _www.elkingtonfamily.com_ (http://www.elkingtonfamily.com) and find George Richards Elkington. JUDY ELKINGTON [N. Derbyshire, England] www.elkingtonfamily.com ELKINGTON@rootsweb.com www.one-name.org/profiles/elkington.html _____________________________________________ _____________________________________________ Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 14/08/2009 04:17:09 GMT Daylight Time, caroburley@sympatico.ca writes: How long were apprenticeships? What would it take to become a "Master"? As a master could he train others? His son became an electroplater as well. Hi I believe an apprenticeship lasted for seven years. Do you know where he was apprenticed and with which company. When he had completed his Apprenticeship he would then be allowed to work as a qualified man sometime as a journey man, eventually becoming a Master of his craft. Once he had qualified he would then be allowed to train his son who would have to serve an apprentice ship like his father had done. Birmingham was of course the centre for Silver work and this is where my family came from. They eventually had one of the largest well known companies called Elkington & Co. If you want to read his story, look at _www.elkingtonfamily.com_ (http://www.elkingtonfamily.com) and find George Richards Elkington. JUDY ELKINGTON [N. Derbyshire, England] www.elkingtonfamily.com ELKINGTON@rootsweb.com www.one-name.org/profiles/elkington.html

In 1841 by great-great grandfather was an electroplate apprentice. He was 14 yrs. In later census reports he has his own business and describes himself as an Electroplate Master. Does anyone know about such apprenticeships? How long were apprenticeships? What would it take to become a "Master"? As a master could he train others? His son became an electroplater as well. For many years his business was located in his residence on Warstone lane. He had a large family. How much space would it take to run such a business? I'd appreciate any information you can provide. Carolyn

Listers - In Peter's offer of photos of back-to-back houses he gave his direct email. He's happy to send the photos, but I, and most of the other 600+ listers will no doubt be happy if the requests go off list, please! Thanks! Wendy List Admin B'ham List

Peter, There are so many people wanting to view the back to back, can you ask the enumerator if she would let you show them on site? Ken B ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Hill" <anne@ultimo.freeserve.co.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back interiors, Keeps a Mangle, etc >I would also like to see these photos please . I had relatives who lived > in back to back dwellings. > Anne Hill > > JUNE BRADBURY wrote: >> Where would I go to find these photos, I would love to see them June >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <skelcher@talk21.com> >> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:47 AM >> Subject: Re: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back interiors, Keeps a Mangle, etc >> >> >> I would love to see the photos too please! >> Sylvia Kelcher >> >> --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Peter Turner <peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >> >> From: Peter Turner <peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk> >> Subject: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back interiors, Keeps a Mangle, etc >> To: "eng-warks-B" <Eng-Warks-Birmingham@rootsweb.com> >> Date: Saturday, 8 August, 2009, 9:59 AM >> >> >> Photographs taken at the Black Country Museum - happy to share with >> anyone >> who wants to illustrate their histories. >> >> Peter Turner (Birmingham, UK) >> peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> _____________________________________________ >> _____________________________________________ >> >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> >> _____________________________________________ >> _____________________________________________ >> >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> > > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Peter, I too would like to see the photos as my grandparents lived in these houses. Can you send them directly to me? If so, please do so. Reg rwesson@cogeco.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Turner" <peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back interiors, Keeps a Mangle, etc Hi Ken I took the pics especially to put on the list and was prepared for quite a few requests - my only disappointment is that many of the recipients have not been heard of subsequently. Peter Turner (Birmingham, UK) peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk --- On Wed, 12/8/09, kbibb <kbibb@bkb.net.au> wrote: > From: kbibb <kbibb@bkb.net.au> > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back interiors, Keeps a Mangle, etc > To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com > Date: Wednesday, 12 August, 2009, 11:03 AM > Peter, > There are so many people wanting to view the back to back, > can you ask the > enumerator if she would let you show them on site? > Ken B > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anne Hill" <anne@ultimo.freeserve.co.uk> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 5:21 PM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back interiors, Keeps > a Mangle, etc > > > >I would also like to see these photos please . I had > relatives who lived > > in back to back dwellings. > > Anne Hill > > > > JUNE BRADBURY wrote: > >> Where would I go to find these photos, I would > love to see them June > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: <skelcher@talk21.com> > >> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:47 AM > >> Subject: Re: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back > interiors, Keeps a Mangle, etc > >> > >> > >> I would love to see the photos too please! > >> Sylvia Kelcher > >> > >> --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Peter Turner <peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> From: Peter Turner <peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk> > >> Subject: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back interiors, > Keeps a Mangle, etc > >> To: "eng-warks-B" <Eng-Warks-Birmingham@rootsweb.com> > >> Date: Saturday, 8 August, 2009, 9:59 AM > >> > >> > >> Photographs taken at the Black Country Museum - > happy to share with > >> anyone > >> who wants to illustrate their histories. > >> > >> Peter Turner (Birmingham, UK) > >> peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _____________________________________________ > >> _____________________________________________ > >> > >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > >> > >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _____________________________________________ > >> > _____________________________________________ > >> > >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > >> > >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > _____________________________________________ > > _____________________________________________ > > > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message > _____________________________________________ _____________________________________________ Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ken I took the pics especially to put on the list and was prepared for quite a few requests - my only disappointment is that many of the recipients have not been heard of subsequently. Peter Turner (Birmingham, UK) peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk --- On Wed, 12/8/09, kbibb <kbibb@bkb.net.au> wrote: > From: kbibb <kbibb@bkb.net.au> > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back interiors, Keeps a Mangle, etc > To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com > Date: Wednesday, 12 August, 2009, 11:03 AM > Peter, > There are so many people wanting to view the back to back, > can you ask the > enumerator if she would let you show them on site? > Ken B > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anne Hill" <anne@ultimo.freeserve.co.uk> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 5:21 PM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back interiors, Keeps > a Mangle, etc > > > >I would also like to see these photos please . I had > relatives who lived > > in back to back dwellings. > > Anne Hill > > > > JUNE BRADBURY wrote: > >> Where would I go to find these photos, I would > love to see them June > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: <skelcher@talk21.com> > >> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:47 AM > >> Subject: Re: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back > interiors, Keeps a Mangle, etc > >> > >> > >> I would love to see the photos too please! > >> Sylvia Kelcher > >> > >> --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Peter Turner <peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> From: Peter Turner <peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk> > >> Subject: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back interiors, > Keeps a Mangle, etc > >> To: "eng-warks-B" <Eng-Warks-Birmingham@rootsweb.com> > >> Date: Saturday, 8 August, 2009, 9:59 AM > >> > >> > >> Photographs taken at the Black Country Museum - > happy to share with > >> anyone > >> who wants to illustrate their histories. > >> > >> Peter Turner (Birmingham, UK) > >> peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _____________________________________________ > >> _____________________________________________ > >> > >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > >> > >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _____________________________________________ > >>  > _____________________________________________ > >> > >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > >> > >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > _____________________________________________ > > _____________________________________________ > > > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

I would also like to see these photos please . I had relatives who lived in back to back dwellings. Anne Hill JUNE BRADBURY wrote: > Where would I go to find these photos, I would love to see them June > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <skelcher@talk21.com> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:47 AM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back interiors, Keeps a Mangle, etc > > > I would love to see the photos too please! > Sylvia Kelcher > > --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Peter Turner <peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > > From: Peter Turner <peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk> > Subject: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back interiors, Keeps a Mangle, etc > To: "eng-warks-B" <Eng-Warks-Birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Date: Saturday, 8 August, 2009, 9:59 AM > > > Photographs taken at the Black Country Museum - happy to share with anyone > who wants to illustrate their histories. > > Peter Turner (Birmingham, UK) > peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk > > > > > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Funny that! I emailed earlier today but no reply as yet. Thanks for the thought! Marlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Lambourne" <lesley.lambourne@dsl.pipex.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:37 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end > You could try emailing them to explain your difficulty. They may have a > solution; I would have thought that that it is a problem that will have > cropped up at some point. > > Lesley > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marlene > Shipman > Sent: 11 August 2009 14:26 > To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end > > Thanks Lesley - what a pain - don' t wish to send Card details via post! > Cheers > Marlene > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lesley Lambourne" <lesley.lambourne@dsl.pipex.com> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:18 AM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end > > >> See the following link on Birmingham History Forum >> > http://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=25793&highlight=Birmin >> gham+Register+Office >> which includes the following extract: >> "John Yates at the Register Office, his reply states " The forms have >> been >> suspended from use pending the redevelopment of the Birmingham City >> Council >> website and are not expected to be available for a while". He goes on to >> say >> that postal applications are still accepted - forms can be downloaded >> from >> the web page or personal applications can still be made." >> >> Lesley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marlene >> Shipman >> Sent: 11 August 2009 14:08 >> To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end >> >> Unfortunately Brum RO is not accepting online applications using VISA or >> similar which means from overseas you have to make a postal application >> with >> >> a Bank cheque for G B pounds at horrendous cost! >> Does anyone know why they have ceased what was by far the best service I >> have experienced? >> Marlene >> New Zealand >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Fisher" <mjflists@yahoo.co.uk> >> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:40 AM >> Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end >> >> >>> Hi Tam >>> >>> Did you get the death certificates from Birmingham Register Office ? >>> If not you should have , they have a resident genealogist ,John Yates, >>> to help you get the correct certificate. >>> See their website *http://tinyurl.com/kjhm87 , if that link does not >>> work then google >>> Birmingham Register Office genealogy. >>> >>> Mike Fisher in Droitwich >>> * >>> _____________________________________________ >>> _____________________________________________ >>> >>> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ >>> >>> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> _____________________________________________ >> _____________________________________________ >> >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> _____________________________________________ >> _____________________________________________ >> >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Have you got the William HENRY Smith cert Dec 1865 Aston 6d/212? Remember the Informant might not have all the details correct! Did you give the wife/widow' s name and approximate age as verification? Sarah SMITH 48 Widow on 1881 census with dau Eliza 27 living Irving St B'ham - is that right? Do you have her in 1891 and 1901? It cuts down the timeframe to look for her death if we know when she disappeared from the census. Good Luck Marlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tam Smith" <tamsmith@uq.net.au> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:46 PM Subject: [B'ham] Smith dead end > Dear All > > I am throwing in this problem in the hope that listers may be able to > help/advise. I am researching my husband's family - Smiths - clearly the > easiest name about which to find information ... particularly, I am > trying to find the date of death of his gt gt grandfather. Please > forgive the length of this message; I've not yet learnt the brevity of > expression of experienced listers. > > My husband's gt gt grandfather was William Harrison Smith born c 1831 > Birmingham to John Smith (born c1806 Radnorshire, Wales) and Sarah (former > surname unknown, born c1806 Wednesbury). William married Sarah Rose on > 16 June 1851 at the Parish Church (St Mary) Handsworth. On the mc they > are recorded as being of full age. > > In the 1861 census William H Smith, zinc worker aged 30, is residing with > his family at 69 High Street, Aston. The family members include: > Sarah, wife, 38 born Birmingham (the age is incorrect, and in other > censuses Sarah is recorded as being born in Stratford on Avon)) > Henry, son, 9, born Birmingham > Thomas, son, 4, born Birmingham > Samuel, son, 2, born Birmingham (Samuel Frederick, born 12 January 1859. > My husband's gt grandfather. William is recorded on the bc as zinc worker > master) > Also at the house were boarders James Wearham, 23, painter, Matilda > Wearham, 24, his wife, and six month old Emily Wearham. > William and Sarah also had a daughter, Eliza Harrison Smith, born 18 > August 1853, who must have been away from home in 1861 (she appears in > later census records). > > In the 1871 census, Thomas and Samuel are both at the Gem Street > Industrial School. In the archives it says that Thomas was detained in > March 1868 for stealing; father dead 3 years; mother Sarah No.1 Court 7 > house 13 High St Birmingham, washerwoman. Samuel was detained in October > 1869, charged with theft. "Father dead Sarah Smith the mother a widow of > good character resides at 7 House 13 Court High St Birmingham". > > I have tried to find a record of William's death, working back from > Thomas' detention and the mention that his father had been dead 3 years. I > started out checking 1865 death records and then went to 1864 death > records (fom the BMD site). I've also checked out the 1866 death records > which include ages. I've been concentrating on deaths recorded in Aston, > given the family's residential history, but have also included Birmingham. > So far I've bought 16 death certificates, none of which seem to be the > right one (I'll post the details in a separate email in case they are of > use to anyone) and have just now ordered the final two on my list - > William Smith June 1865 Aston 6d 145 and September 1865 Aston 6d 214. > > Can anyone direct me in my search? (I would also like to find out when > William's wife Sarah died). > > Thanks and cheers > > Tam > Brisbane, Oz > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Lesley - what a pain - don' t wish to send Card details via post! Cheers Marlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Lambourne" <lesley.lambourne@dsl.pipex.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:18 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end > See the following link on Birmingham History Forum > http://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=25793&highlight=Birmin > gham+Register+Office > which includes the following extract: > "John Yates at the Register Office, his reply states " The forms have been > suspended from use pending the redevelopment of the Birmingham City > Council > website and are not expected to be available for a while". He goes on to > say > that postal applications are still accepted - forms can be downloaded from > the web page or personal applications can still be made." > > Lesley > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marlene > Shipman > Sent: 11 August 2009 14:08 > To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end > > Unfortunately Brum RO is not accepting online applications using VISA or > similar which means from overseas you have to make a postal application > with > > a Bank cheque for G B pounds at horrendous cost! > Does anyone know why they have ceased what was by far the best service I > have experienced? > Marlene > New Zealand > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Fisher" <mjflists@yahoo.co.uk> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:40 AM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end > > >> Hi Tam >> >> Did you get the death certificates from Birmingham Register Office ? >> If not you should have , they have a resident genealogist ,John Yates, >> to help you get the correct certificate. >> See their website *http://tinyurl.com/kjhm87 , if that link does not >> work then google >> Birmingham Register Office genealogy. >> >> Mike Fisher in Droitwich >> * >> _____________________________________________ >> _____________________________________________ >> >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Unfortunately Brum RO is not accepting online applications using VISA or similar which means from overseas you have to make a postal application with a Bank cheque for G B pounds at horrendous cost! Does anyone know why they have ceased what was by far the best service I have experienced? Marlene New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Fisher" <mjflists@yahoo.co.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end > Hi Tam > > Did you get the death certificates from Birmingham Register Office ? > If not you should have , they have a resident genealogist ,John Yates, > to help you get the correct certificate. > See their website *http://tinyurl.com/kjhm87 , if that link does not > work then google > Birmingham Register Office genealogy. > > Mike Fisher in Droitwich > * > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Where would I go to find these photos, I would love to see them June ----- Original Message ----- From: <skelcher@talk21.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back interiors, Keeps a Mangle, etc I would love to see the photos too please! Sylvia Kelcher --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Peter Turner <peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: From: Peter Turner <peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [B'ham] Photos: Back to Back interiors, Keeps a Mangle, etc To: "eng-warks-B" <Eng-Warks-Birmingham@rootsweb.com> Date: Saturday, 8 August, 2009, 9:59 AM Photographs taken at the Black Country Museum - happy to share with anyone who wants to illustrate their histories. Peter Turner (Birmingham, UK) peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk _____________________________________________ _____________________________________________ Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear All I am throwing in this problem in the hope that listers may be able to help/advise. I am researching my husband's family - Smiths - clearly the easiest name about which to find information ... particularly, I am trying to find the date of death of his gt gt grandfather. Please forgive the length of this message; I've not yet learnt the brevity of expression of experienced listers. My husband's gt gt grandfather was William Harrison Smith born c 1831 Birmingham to John Smith (born c1806 Radnorshire, Wales) and Sarah (former surname unknown, born c1806 Wednesbury). William married Sarah Rose on 16 June 1851 at the Parish Church (St Mary) Handsworth. On the mc they are recorded as being of full age. In the 1861 census William H Smith, zinc worker aged 30, is residing with his family at 69 High Street, Aston. The family members include: Sarah, wife, 38 born Birmingham (the age is incorrect, and in other censuses Sarah is recorded as being born in Stratford on Avon)) Henry, son, 9, born Birmingham Thomas, son, 4, born Birmingham Samuel, son, 2, born Birmingham (Samuel Frederick, born 12 January 1859. My husband's gt grandfather. William is recorded on the bc as zinc worker master) Also at the house were boarders James Wearham, 23, painter, Matilda Wearham, 24, his wife, and six month old Emily Wearham. William and Sarah also had a daughter, Eliza Harrison Smith, born 18 August 1853, who must have been away from home in 1861 (she appears in later census records). In the 1871 census, Thomas and Samuel are both at the Gem Street Industrial School. In the archives it says that Thomas was detained in March 1868 for stealing; father dead 3 years; mother Sarah No.1 Court 7 house 13 High St Birmingham, washerwoman. Samuel was detained in October 1869, charged with theft. "Father dead Sarah Smith the mother a widow of good character resides at 7 House 13 Court High St Birmingham". I have tried to find a record of William's death, working back from Thomas' detention and the mention that his father had been dead 3 years. I started out checking 1865 death records and then went to 1864 death records (fom the BMD site). I've also checked out the 1866 death records which include ages. I've been concentrating on deaths recorded in Aston, given the family's residential history, but have also included Birmingham. So far I've bought 16 death certificates, none of which seem to be the right one (I'll post the details in a separate email in case they are of use to anyone) and have just now ordered the final two on my list - William Smith June 1865 Aston 6d 145 and September 1865 Aston 6d 214. Can anyone direct me in my search? (I would also like to find out when William's wife Sarah died). Thanks and cheers Tam Brisbane, Oz

You could try emailing them to explain your difficulty. They may have a solution; I would have thought that that it is a problem that will have cropped up at some point. Lesley -----Original Message----- From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marlene Shipman Sent: 11 August 2009 14:26 To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end Thanks Lesley - what a pain - don' t wish to send Card details via post! Cheers Marlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Lambourne" <lesley.lambourne@dsl.pipex.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:18 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end > See the following link on Birmingham History Forum > http://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=25793&highlight=Birmin > gham+Register+Office > which includes the following extract: > "John Yates at the Register Office, his reply states " The forms have been > suspended from use pending the redevelopment of the Birmingham City > Council > website and are not expected to be available for a while". He goes on to > say > that postal applications are still accepted - forms can be downloaded from > the web page or personal applications can still be made." > > Lesley > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marlene > Shipman > Sent: 11 August 2009 14:08 > To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end > > Unfortunately Brum RO is not accepting online applications using VISA or > similar which means from overseas you have to make a postal application > with > > a Bank cheque for G B pounds at horrendous cost! > Does anyone know why they have ceased what was by far the best service I > have experienced? > Marlene > New Zealand > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Fisher" <mjflists@yahoo.co.uk> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:40 AM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end > > >> Hi Tam >> >> Did you get the death certificates from Birmingham Register Office ? >> If not you should have , they have a resident genealogist ,John Yates, >> to help you get the correct certificate. >> See their website *http://tinyurl.com/kjhm87 , if that link does not >> work then google >> Birmingham Register Office genealogy. >> >> Mike Fisher in Droitwich >> * >> _____________________________________________ >> _____________________________________________ >> >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____________________________________________ _____________________________________________ Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi All Why not email John Yates and sort out what he can do to help with payment methods. He is a most helpful person and wants you get get the right certificate. Mike Fisher

See the following link on Birmingham History Forum http://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=25793&highlight=Birmin gham+Register+Office which includes the following extract: "John Yates at the Register Office, his reply states " The forms have been suspended from use pending the redevelopment of the Birmingham City Council website and are not expected to be available for a while". He goes on to say that postal applications are still accepted - forms can be downloaded from the web page or personal applications can still be made." Lesley -----Original Message----- From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marlene Shipman Sent: 11 August 2009 14:08 To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end Unfortunately Brum RO is not accepting online applications using VISA or similar which means from overseas you have to make a postal application with a Bank cheque for G B pounds at horrendous cost! Does anyone know why they have ceased what was by far the best service I have experienced? Marlene New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Fisher" <mjflists@yahoo.co.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Smith dead end > Hi Tam > > Did you get the death certificates from Birmingham Register Office ? > If not you should have , they have a resident genealogist ,John Yates, > to help you get the correct certificate. > See their website *http://tinyurl.com/kjhm87 , if that link does not > work then google > Birmingham Register Office genealogy. > > Mike Fisher in Droitwich > * > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____________________________________________ _____________________________________________ Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message