In a message dated 26/09/2009 02:18:10 GMT Daylight Time, kbibb@bkb.net.au writes: Susan, Why don't you try your local LDS (morman) library they would be able to get the films for you to view. Hi, If you don't know where there is one go to _www.familysearch.org_ (http://www.familysearch.org) and if you scroll down you will find a place to enter to get the address. JUDY ELKINGTON [N. Derbyshire, England] www.elkingtonfamily.com ELKINGTON@rootsweb.com www.one-name.org/profiles/elkington.html

Hello Folks Does anyone one have any records from St Barnabus Church, Ryland Street Ladywood ,Birmingham ? And St Thomas , Bath Row Birmingham. I know records are held at Birmingham Library. But it quite a trip for me to get there. Please can any one help? Regards Susan researching Taylor/Holloway/Nolan/Wallis/Haydon/Gough/Crump/Watkins/Savory/

Hi Kathleen I think that you're right - the skilled workers probably lived somewhere between working class and middleclass. That's the group that I'm trying to find out more about. My 3xgreat grandfather lived on Warstone Lane for many years. That's why I mentioned the jewellery quarter. He was an electroplater, running his own business. I'm trying to understand what life would have been like for someone like him and his family. I was hoping that since there were so many trades in Birmingham that there would be some resource material about that group. I'll keep looking. Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sally Haden Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 4:13 AM To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Subject: [B'ham] books about daily life in victorian birmingham Hi Carolyn, I too thought of Kathleen Dayus but be aware that she wrote just about the industrial slums (and as Ken says, in the Edwardian period, not the Victorian). There were all sorts of people living in all sorts of different conditions - some of them have been written about and some haven't. For instance, Dayus wrote "The Girl from Hockley" so I bought it because some of my own ancestors lived in Hockley. But they were artisans who had a little bit more money than the Dayus family and didn't live in back-to-back houses. My gt. grandfather was a glass cutter and his brother was a jeweller. My gt. grandfather went on to become a cycle manufacturer with his own factory by the 1890s and a house in the new suburban streets of Aston. If one of their children had written a book about the Edwardian period it would have been quite a different read to Dayus. Others of my ancestors came to England from Ireland during the Famine and started out destitute in the Irish Quarter. A couple of them became grocers who managed pretty well after a lot of hard work. Another worked in the glass trade and then became a pub landlord, entered the coal trade and became a coal merchant living in a big house on Soho Road by the 1890s. His children, too, would have had a different life to the Dayus children. It very admirable that Dayus wrote what she did but beware that it only describes one sort of life in Birmingham, one of many. It's true that far too many people had to live in such awful conditions, and it was the unfortunate experience of millions across Britain, but there were also millions of better-off people too. I am therefore surprised that you write: >> The books that I've found on Victorian England >> focus on middle class more the skilled workers which is my interest. The skilled workers could, I think, live on the border line between the working classes and the lower middle-classes? An artisan in Birmingham had good prospects. I find it hard to read about their lives. So do tell me what you have found! Sally _____________________________________________ _____________________________________________ Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Carolyn, I too thought of Kathleen Dayus but be aware that she wrote just about the industrial slums (and as Ken says, in the Edwardian period, not the Victorian). There were all sorts of people living in all sorts of different conditions - some of them have been written about and some haven't. For instance, Dayus wrote "The Girl from Hockley" so I bought it because some of my own ancestors lived in Hockley. But they were artisans who had a little bit more money than the Dayus family and didn't live in back-to-back houses. My gt. grandfather was a glass cutter and his brother was a jeweller. My gt. grandfather went on to become a cycle manufacturer with his own factory by the 1890s and a house in the new suburban streets of Aston. If one of their children had written a book about the Edwardian period it would have been quite a different read to Dayus. Others of my ancestors came to England from Ireland during the Famine and started out destitute in the Irish Quarter. A couple of them became grocers who managed pretty well after a lot of hard work. Another worked in the glass trade and then became a pub landlord, entered the coal trade and became a coal merchant living in a big house on Soho Road by the 1890s. His children, too, would have had a different life to the Dayus children. It very admirable that Dayus wrote what she did but beware that it only describes one sort of life in Birmingham, one of many. It's true that far too many people had to live in such awful conditions, and it was the unfortunate experience of millions across Britain, but there were also millions of better-off people too. I am therefore surprised that you write: >> The books that I've found on Victorian England >> focus on middle class more the skilled workers which is my interest. The skilled workers could, I think, live on the border line between the working classes and the lower middle-classes? An artisan in Birmingham had good prospects. I find it hard to read about their lives. So do tell me what you have found! Sally

I have the following brickwall, Has anyone a connection please or information International Genealogical Index:- William GARNER sex M marriage Spouse Mary Ann EBORALL 23rd April 1835 Coventry, Saint Michael, Warwick many thanks in advance aileen

In a message dated 20/09/2009 09:14:34 GMT Daylight Time, haden.sally@googlemail.com writes: I too thought of Kathleen Dayus but be aware that she wrote just about the industrial slums (and as Ken says, in the Edwardian period, not the Victorian). There were all sorts of people living in all sorts of different conditions - some of them have been written about and some haven't. Hi Carolyn, Birmingham was not just a poor area with many slums it was also the home of wealthy industrialists who had large houses and built churches such as St. Mary's at Selly Oak. Selly Oak was the home of George Richards Elkington who founded the Elkington & Co world famous Silver Plating Company whose business was in the centre of Birmingham.. He sold his house, Woodbrooke at Selly Oak, to George Cadbury who founded Bourneville the chocolate factory and village. Many of the people from Birmingham lived and worked near the silver works in St.Paul's Square and Newhall, which was in the Jewellery Quarter These people founded the Elkington Masonic Lodge. There were Brass bed makers and ornamenters and many other jobs. A lot of Brass Work came from Birmingham although it was one of the top cities for Silver Hallmarking A read of one of the censuses would help you get an idea of the jobs people were employed in, perhaps 1841 or 1851 would help. If one of your relatives is on a census then look at the jobs on their pages and perhaps one or two pages before and after There was a large hospital in Birmingham where many people would have worked as doctors and nurses. One of my relations was a nurse trained by Florence Nightingale and worked in the Birmingham Hospital as a Ward Sister. To understand the way of life there, which was one of England's five biggest cities, you really need to study the history of the area. JUDY ELKINGTON [N. Derbyshire, England] www.elkingtonfamily.com ELKINGTON@rootsweb.com www.one-name.org/profiles/elkington.html

Jan, Kathleen Dayus books are very very good,(about 4+) the series told of her life and the family she bought up. But I don't think it was in the Victorian era, more like Edwardian. I did write to her in her latter years when she lived down the Warwick road area Hay Mills way I think, it was along time ago, I wrote to say how wonderful her books were, I think she was in her nineties and this was perhaps 20 years ago. Just a bit of trivia. Ken B ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil & Jan Hearn" <neil.hearn3@bigpond.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] books about daily life in victorian birmingham > Any of the novels by Annie Murray are quite descriptive. I also have on my > shelf "The People of Lavender Court" by Kathleen Dayus. > > Hope this helps, > > Jan > in beautiful Queensland > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike in Droitwich" <mjflists@yahoo.co.uk> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 7:23 PM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] books about daily life in victorian birmingham > > >> Hi Carolyn >> >> Put "Carl Chinn" books into google or as the author in any online book >> supplier i.e. abebooks and you will find what you want >> >> Mike in Droitwich >> >> Carolyn Burley wrote: >>> I'm trying to do some research on daily life in Birmingham from about >>> 1830 >>> -1900. I'm especially interested in information about living conditions >>> in >>> the Jewellery quarter. Can anyone make some suggestions? >>> >>> I do have the "the Making of Victorian Birmingham" but its fact based >>> rather >>> than about personal lives. The books that I've found on Victorian >>> England >>> focus on middle class more the skilled workers which is my interest. >>> >>> >>> >>> I don't live in England so my resources are limited. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Carolyn >>> >>> >>> >>> _____________________________________________ >>> _____________________________________________ >>> >>> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ >>> >>> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> _____________________________________________ >> _____________________________________________ >> >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Any of the novels by Annie Murray are quite descriptive. I also have on my shelf "The People of Lavender Court" by Kathleen Dayus. Hope this helps, Jan in beautiful Queensland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike in Droitwich" <mjflists@yahoo.co.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] books about daily life in victorian birmingham > Hi Carolyn > > Put "Carl Chinn" books into google or as the author in any online book > supplier i.e. abebooks and you will find what you want > > Mike in Droitwich > > Carolyn Burley wrote: >> I'm trying to do some research on daily life in Birmingham from about 1830 >> -1900. I'm especially interested in information about living conditions in >> the Jewellery quarter. Can anyone make some suggestions? >> >> I do have the "the Making of Victorian Birmingham" but its fact based rather >> than about personal lives. The books that I've found on Victorian England >> focus on middle class more the skilled workers which is my interest. >> >> >> >> I don't live in England so my resources are limited. >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Carolyn >> >> >> >> _____________________________________________ >> _____________________________________________ >> >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Carolyn Put "Carl Chinn" books into google or as the author in any online book supplier i.e. abebooks and you will find what you want Mike in Droitwich Carolyn Burley wrote: > I'm trying to do some research on daily life in Birmingham from about 1830 > -1900. I'm especially interested in information about living conditions in > the Jewellery quarter. Can anyone make some suggestions? > > I do have the "the Making of Victorian Birmingham" but its fact based rather > than about personal lives. The books that I've found on Victorian England > focus on middle class more the skilled workers which is my interest. > > > > I don't live in England so my resources are limited. > > > > Thanks > > Carolyn > > > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I'm trying to do some research on daily life in Birmingham from about 1830 -1900. I'm especially interested in information about living conditions in the Jewellery quarter. Can anyone make some suggestions? I do have the "the Making of Victorian Birmingham" but its fact based rather than about personal lives. The books that I've found on Victorian England focus on middle class more the skilled workers which is my interest. I don't live in England so my resources are limited. Thanks Carolyn

Dear Listers I am trying to trace the descendants of Edwin Wolverson who is buried in Key Hill. Edwin had 2 sons Edwin WOLVERSON (1850-1903) and Arthur WOLVERSON (1852-1924). Arthur was unmarried but Edwin jnr was married twice and had a daughter by each marriage Florence (born 1881) was married to Edward TERRY in 1906 and had 3 children Winifred Rose TERRY (born 1909) William Edward TERRY (born 1912) and John (H) or (E) TERRY (born 1917)-I understand they were living at Soho Hill in 1920.The second daughter Lillian Kate WOLVERSON was married to Philip SMITH in 1919 and had a son Dennis W SMITH (born 1920 -they were living at 76 Knightwick Crescent in 1950. Any help would be appreciated. Thank You.

Thanks, Dave. Ros from Adelaide. -----Original Message----- From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Fisher Sent: Monday, 14 September 2009 6:09 PM To: ENG-WARKS-BRUM post to list Subject: [B'ham] KEY HILL OPEN DAY- CORRECTION Sorry, last link doesn't work, use *http://tinyurl.com/l3uf5t ** *Best wishes, David Fisher. "I intend to live forever... so far so good!" -- Images of BRUM at http://brummages.blogspot.com For Brummages updates follow http://twitter.com/Snygyst _____________________________________________ _____________________________________________ Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sorry, last link doesn't work, use *http://tinyurl.com/l3uf5t ** *Best wishes, David Fisher. "I intend to live forever... so far so good!" -- Images of BRUM at http://brummages.blogspot.com For Brummages updates follow http://twitter.com/Snygyst

Photos now published at *http://tinyurl.com/l3uf5 *along with some off-topic stuff*.** *Best wishes, David Fisher. "I intend to live forever... so far so good!" -- Images of BRUM at http://brummages.blogspot.com For Brummages updates follow http://twitter.com/Snygyst

Dear listers > > Were you, or any of your family, sent to Ynyshir, Rhonnda South  > Wales, as an evacuee? > I have recently found a list of boys at the local school, evacuees  > from London and Birmingham. > I would be interested to hear your stories. OFF LINE please, listers, just in case the list gets blocked.  Hoping for loads of e mails! > > thanks > Pat

It's that time of the year again. The Friends of Key Hill Cemetery<http://www.friendsofkeyhillcemetery.co.uk/>will host 2 open days this year, on Saturday 12th and Sunday 13th September.More details at *http://tinyurl.com/l3uf5t* <http://tinyurl.com/l3uf5t>* *Best wishes, David Fisher. "I intend to live forever... so far so good!" -- Images of BRUM at http://brummages.blogspot.com For Brummages updates follow http://twitter.com/Snygyst

> Mike Sorry for the delay! This message has been returned to me twice! Hopefully third time lucky! > If you cannot find her in 1881/1891/1901 I am wondring if you have the > same problem I had with an ancestor? Or something similar! > I had a mother who was admitted to Brum Asylum in the 1870s and the > medical papers said "suffering from milk ulcers following childbirth". > Her youngest child was 2 years + so I was a bit mystified but accepting!. > Some years later I noticed on Free BMD a marriage which I thought odd. A > male, forename associated with the family surname both "rare"! > Out of curiousity I purchased the marriage cert and every detail was 100% > correct except this child had never been shown with my family! I ordered > the birth cert - 100% correct - his name, age fitted, birth father's name > & occupation correct. > I tracked forward from 1861 using age & birthplace and discovered my gt > gran had a brother whom she had never known! When mother went to Brum > Asylum for the usual 8 months (post natal depression) the baby was adopted > out but obviously he knew his circumstances and used his correct birth > name, his correct father's name & occupation at his marriage . His > adoptive father was a witness, so I was able to trace back on censuses.. > Incidentally I tracked forward to trace his family and now have contact > with all of his gt grandchildren. One family came to NZ in the 1960s as 10 > Pound Poms! > > Using Adelaide's example I would definitely buy the cert to see who is > listed as her father. It's possible she actually used her birth name at > marriage and possibly will give either her natural father or an adoptive > father as parent. > If you wish to write to me personally I will fill out the above with > details which would make it easier to follow as you could double check my > data whilst applying the reasoning to Adelaide. > > I never fail to be amazed at how honest our ancestors were! The problem > lies with us looking back with preconcieved notions! > Good Luck > Marlene > New Zealand > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Fisher" <mjflists@yahoo.co.uk> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:34 PM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] where is Adelaide H(E)ADLEY > > >> Nivard & Marlene >> >> Thanks for the suggestions. >> The only suitable FreeBMD birth entry is >> Adelaide Hadley birth Q4 1879 Kings Norton >> If this is the one she is going to be 9 years older than Joseph William >> Can anyone find her in the 1881/91/01 census. >> >> Look like I might have to send for the marriage certificate >> or as the were both in the 1950 electoral roll search for a death after >> that date in Birmingham to give me an idea of a birth year. >> >> Mike in a fresh wind in Droitwich >> >> >>> >> _____________________________________________ >> _____________________________________________ >> >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Kia Ora Have you tried HER family? In which case she may be under her maiden name ? Also try Ada or Ad* in case the spelling is awry! The 1911 census was completed by the Householder for the first time & I understand that schoolchildren were taught how to complete the form in case parents were unsure! Is it likely that she was working at the time- posssibly in someone else's home that night? Or that she was "at home" with child/ren while JW visited his folks? Remenber it is snapshot of one night! Good Luck Marlene New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Fisher" <mjflists@yahoo.co.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:11 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] where is Joseph William FISHER in 1911 > Hi All > > Well I spent my money and bought some findmypast credits > Now I know that Joseph William is at his parents 28 Row Heath Rd > he is down as > William son 23 married 3 years his wife is not with him > from freebmd married q1 1908 Kings Norton > So where is his wife Adelaide Fisher nee H(e)adley ? > > Mike in sunny Droitwich > > Mike Fisher wrote: >> I know your are not going to get a 1911 census lookup due to the cost >> but it is possible to find households. >> >> Hi All, here goes. >> >> Joseph William Fisher (great-uncle Billy Fisher) married Adelaide >> H(e)adley Q1 1908 Kings Norton. >> They had 4 children - Edward, Neil Q4 1918, Joan Q4 1918, Stanley Q2 >> 1924-31 Dec 1942 >> >> In the electoral rolls for Birmingham ,28 Rowheath Rd Cotteridge >> 1935 Joseph William Fisher, Adelaide Fisher, Ted Fisher >> 1939 as above >> 1945 Joseph William Fisher, Adelaide Fisher, Joan Smalley, Donald >> Smalley (Joan married Q1 1942 Birmingham Smalley) >> !950 as above >> >> So Edward must have been 21 before the electoral roll for 1935 giving a >> calculated birth date of 1908-1914 >> >> I can't find Joseph William and Adelaide together in the 1911 census. >> >> I can find this household in 1911 >> >> Joseph Fisher 54 >> Able Fisher 27 >> Rose Fisher 54 >> William Fisher 23 >> Annie Fisher 21 >> >> From my family tree >> Joseph Cornelius FISHER (Joe)(20 Jul 1856-14 Feb 1926) >> married 26 Nov 1882 in St Martin,Birmingham,WAR to >> Roseanna RHODES(25 Nov 1856-02 May 1924) >> and had 5 children: >> Abel James FISHER (13 May 1883-14 Mar 1943) >> Roseanna Agatha FISHER (06 Mar 1885-1965) >> Joseph William FISHER (Billy)(26 May 1887) >> Annie FISHER (08 Nov 1889-1940) >> Edward FISHER (23 Jul 1892-01 May 1893). >> >> Can anyone one find a suitable birth for Edward. >> and 1911 census for his parents >> >> Mike in Droitwich >> family tree >> http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com >> >> >> >> >> _____________________________________________ >> _____________________________________________ >> >> Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Research in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Nivard & Marlene Thanks for the suggestions. The only suitable FreeBMD birth entry is Adelaide Hadley birth Q4 1879 Kings Norton If this is the one she is going to be 9 years older than Joseph William Can anyone find her in the 1881/91/01 census. Look like I might have to send for the marriage certificate or as the were both in the 1950 electoral roll search for a death after that date in Birmingham to give me an idea of a birth year. Mike in a fresh wind in Droitwich >

Hi Mike Have you tried a search for an A* (forename) F* (surname) with year of birth +/- 3yrs and birthplace (remember to select wildcards for each in advanced search) If she was in hospital or an institution she may be enumerated with just initials Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi All > > Well I spent my money and bought some findmypast credits > Now I know that Joseph William is at his parents 28 Row Heath Rd > he is down as > William son 23 married 3 years his wife is not with him > from freebmd married q1 1908 Kings Norton > So where is his wife Adelaide Fisher nee H(e)adley ? > > Mike in sunny Droitwich