In a message dated 07/11/2006 13:10:07 GMT Standard Time, afield.family@btopenworld.com writes: Hello Listers, If you are redsearching Horseman or horsman do you have a Roland Horsman born c1875 in your tree. Would like to know what happened to the Horsman/horseman family. Found them on the 1881 census and 1891 CENSUS. Did Roland Marry? Many thanks, San Hello I have HORSEMAN ancestors, they were originally from Shenington, Oxfordshire (Robert HORSEMAN b.1740 approx). Roland HORSEMAN does not appear on my family tree unfortunately. Best rgds Anthony (looking into the HOLYOAK line, also TURNER line from Birmingham)

Good morning Chris, I guess I feel increditably lucky, things could have had a very different outcome.. Any you are right in that the Morralls stuck with her and even sent a member of the family to accompany her when she came to the USA to marry her future husband Thomas S Poole. I wonder if there are still Morralls around that area, I will have to investigate that, I sure wish England was like the USA in that our census records from 1930 are open. Thanks for you help on this, although I can't prove the Elizabeth Bott connection to John Baker he sure is a very likely culprit. It is to bad there is no paper work on the baby farming pass off. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. Pounder" <cpounder@ihug.co.nz> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:22 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Baby Farming > Hi Ken , Glad you got there in the end, the Baker name was the right one > then! > > As you say 'Baby Farming ' was a touch and go thing back then. However as > I suggested, the old couple may have just done it to help them to survive > themselves and had no sinister intent. Like today there were some genuine > people around and Nelly was lucky to have been placed with them and no one > else. > > Glad to have been of some help to you. > > Chris P. NZ :-) > >

Please could someone tell me if Cadbury's would hold records of past employees. Or, maybe, if these are held at Birmingham Library. Any help will be much appreciated Regards Hilary

Hilary, You can contact Cadbury's direct as they hold all details of past employees. You just need to send a note explaining the reason for your request. I found information this way some time back. I should have the contact details somewhere and will get back to you with these shortly. Jackie

Thank you all for your recent information about ERASMUS DARWIN & MARY PARKER. I have found that MARY PARKER, & JOSEPH DAY were married in October 1782. It says they had 5 children. There is more information available on a website called jstor.org. Unfortunately I don't have access to this website, as it is for members only. Does anyone have access? Can someone get me the information they have about Joseph & Mary? Pease let me know! Thanks!!!! Karen

Hello Ken What a wonderful story. For Nelly to have survived! how remarkable. Thank you for sharing the story with us its what makes our "hobby" so worthwhile. Best wishes Wendy Partridge ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Poole" <kpoole01@rochester.rr.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Baby Farming > Thank you Wendy for the link to the Baby Farming Paper. > > When I think of how lucky my family was that somehow my grandmother Nelly > Baker Bott Poole > given up at the birth (1890), by her mother Elizabeth Bott, who was > probably > seduced by John Baker a > 24 year old married neighborhood man with no children, and then somehow > survived with Francis Morrell on > a farm called Witch Pits with a women who was a declared baby farmer from > Tanworth in Arden, then lived to be 87 and had a long and prosperous life > with her husband Thomas Samuel Poole I am simply stunned at how lucky she > was given the circumstances and how lucky we were to have enjoyed her. > She > never once mentioned the > whole experience to my father or any of us. > > Everyone should read it just to understand how women and children were > treated during Victorian Times. > > http://www.loyno.edu/~history/journal/1989-0/haller.htm > > Thank you again > > Ken > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wendy Partridge" <wendy.partridge@ntlworld.com> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 3:14 PM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Baby Farming > > >> Hi >> >> Here's another site on the subject. >> http://www.loyno.edu/~history/journal/1989-0/haller.htm >> >> Regards >> Wendy Partridge >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Bird" <bobandchris2@btinternet.com> >> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 4:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [B'ham] Baby Farming >> >> >>> thankyou ken for that , my daughter and myself always believed that >>> something like that could have happened and am glad that someone else >>> has >>> heard of it too . ive just got to try and trace my dads siblings now, >>> again >>> thanks a lot for that piece of info. chris >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ken Poole" <kpoole01@rochester.rr.com> >>> To: "C. Pounder" <cpounder@ihug.co.nz> >>> Cc: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 3:55 PM >>> Subject: [B'ham] Baby Farming >>> >>> >>>> Hi Chris, >>>> >>>> Is this the article on Baby Farming you referred to?, my grandmother >>>> was >>>> lucky to get out alive. >>>> Her stepmother Frances Morrall listed her self as a Baby Farmer in the >>>> 1901 census in Tanworth. >>>> >>>> http://www.historybytheyard.co.uk/baby_farming.htm >>>> >>>> Thanks for the reference Chris, it puts that term from what I thought >>>> to >>>> be an off handed >>>> remark into a real societal reality. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Ken >>>> _____________________________________________ >>>> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >>>> http://www.bham.de/ >>>> >>>> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >>>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> _____________________________________________ >>> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >>> http://www.bham.de/ >>> >>> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greetings Have you tried the Birmingham Central Library they have loads of photos I say this because the shop was at 21 Cregoe St for about 80 years or so it disappears sometime in the 1920.s someone must have taken a photo in that time Robert Deloyde ----- Original Message ---- From: Bernard Mantell <bwm1928@googlemail.com> To: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 6 November, 2006 3:19:59 PM Subject: [B'ham] Cregoe Street photos I have not seen my message on the site so am trying again. Bernard ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bernard Mantell <bwm1928@googlemail.com> Date: 03-Nov-2006 14:35 Subject: Cregoe Street photos To: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-D-request@rootsweb.com Hi I have an ancestor, Charles MANTELL, who ran a chemists shop at No. 22 in the 1850s. I have just looked at Cregoe Street on Google Earth and it has ,obviously, been completely redeveloped. Has anyone got photos of the street before redevelopment? I'd be most grateful. Regards Bernard -- Searching for MANTELL in Salop, Walsall, Birmingham, London, MDX PAINTER in MDX YOUNG in MDX and Worcs Cousins circle the world! http://www.LostCousins.com -- Searching for MANTELL in Salop, Walsall, Birmingham, London, MDX PAINTER in MDX YOUNG in MDX and Worcs Cousins circle the world! http://www.LostCousins.com _____________________________________________ Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Here's another site on the subject. http://www.loyno.edu/~history/journal/1989-0/haller.htm Regards Wendy Partridge ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Bird" <bobandchris2@btinternet.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Baby Farming > thankyou ken for that , my daughter and myself always believed that > something like that could have happened and am glad that someone else has > heard of it too . ive just got to try and trace my dads siblings now, > again > thanks a lot for that piece of info. chris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Poole" <kpoole01@rochester.rr.com> > To: "C. Pounder" <cpounder@ihug.co.nz> > Cc: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 3:55 PM > Subject: [B'ham] Baby Farming > > >> Hi Chris, >> >> Is this the article on Baby Farming you referred to?, my grandmother was >> lucky to get out alive. >> Her stepmother Frances Morrall listed her self as a Baby Farmer in the >> 1901 census in Tanworth. >> >> http://www.historybytheyard.co.uk/baby_farming.htm >> >> Thanks for the reference Chris, it puts that term from what I thought to >> be an off handed >> remark into a real societal reality. >> >> Cheers >> >> Ken >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello James I have a Charlotte LINES born Aston 1845 father Charles mother Charlotte nee LAURENCE. Charlotte married Charles PARTRIDGE at St Philips in Birmingham in 1864. During my research I have struggled a bit as I found that sometimes LINES was spelt LYONS. Her name is LINES on her birth certificate and LYONS on her marriage certificate This was probably because of the Birmingham accent and the fact they could not read or write. Best wishes Wendy Partridge ----- Original Message ----- From: "james curley" <jamescurley77@yahoo.co.uk> To: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 5:09 PM Subject: [B'ham] Curley, Driscoll, Lines, Hennigan > Hi listers > > I'm interested in CURLEY, DRISCOLL, LINES, HENNIGAN living in Birmingham > 1830-1900. > > cheers > James > > > _____________________________________________ > Dr. > James Curley > > Charles & Katherine Darwin > Research Fellow, Darwin College > Leverhulme Research Fellow, > Sub-Department of Animal Behaviour > University of > Cambridge > Madingley CB3 8AA > > (01223) > (7)41812 > http://www.zoo.cam.ac.uk/zoostaff/madingley/member_pages/jcurley.htm > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Wendy for the link to the Baby Farming Paper. When I think of how lucky my family was that somehow my grandmother Nelly Baker Bott Poole given up at the birth (1890), by her mother Elizabeth Bott, who was probably seduced by John Baker a 24 year old married neighborhood man with no children, and then somehow survived with Francis Morrell on a farm called Witch Pits with a women who was a declared baby farmer from Tanworth in Arden, then lived to be 87 and had a long and prosperous life with her husband Thomas Samuel Poole I am simply stunned at how lucky she was given the circumstances and how lucky we were to have enjoyed her. She never once mentioned the whole experience to my father or any of us. Everyone should read it just to understand how women and children were treated during Victorian Times. http://www.loyno.edu/~history/journal/1989-0/haller.htm Thank you again Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendy Partridge" <wendy.partridge@ntlworld.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Baby Farming > Hi > > Here's another site on the subject. > http://www.loyno.edu/~history/journal/1989-0/haller.htm > > Regards > Wendy Partridge > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Bird" <bobandchris2@btinternet.com> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 4:27 PM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Baby Farming > > >> thankyou ken for that , my daughter and myself always believed that >> something like that could have happened and am glad that someone else has >> heard of it too . ive just got to try and trace my dads siblings now, >> again >> thanks a lot for that piece of info. chris >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ken Poole" <kpoole01@rochester.rr.com> >> To: "C. Pounder" <cpounder@ihug.co.nz> >> Cc: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 3:55 PM >> Subject: [B'ham] Baby Farming >> >> >>> Hi Chris, >>> >>> Is this the article on Baby Farming you referred to?, my grandmother was >>> lucky to get out alive. >>> Her stepmother Frances Morrall listed her self as a Baby Farmer in the >>> 1901 census in Tanworth. >>> >>> http://www.historybytheyard.co.uk/baby_farming.htm >>> >>> Thanks for the reference Chris, it puts that term from what I thought to >>> be an off handed >>> remark into a real societal reality. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Ken >>> _____________________________________________ >>> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >>> http://www.bham.de/ >>> >>> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Thanks again Kate. I'll take a look. Best wishes Carole >From: Kate <kate.blogs@gmail.com> >Reply-To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com >To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [B'ham] Coventry workhouse 1861 inmates >Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 23:28:41 +0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from lists9.rootsweb.com ([66.43.27.45]) by >bay0-mc6-f15.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2444); Sat, 4 >Nov 2006 15:29:49 -0800 >Received: from lists9.rootsweb.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])by >lists9.rootsweb.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA4NTZii010098;Sat, 4 Nov >2006 16:29:44 -0700 >Received: from mail.rootsweb.com (mail.rootsweb.com [192.168.65.34])by >lists9.rootsweb.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA4NTXT7010095for ><ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@lists9.rootsweb.com>;Sat, 4 Nov 2006 16:29:33 -0700 >Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com >[66.249.92.168])by mail.rootsweb.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id >kA4NTVcD023619for <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com>; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 >16:29:32 -0700 >Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id m3so656352ugefor ><eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com>;Sat, 04 Nov 2006 15:29:32 -0800 (PST) >Received: by 10.67.22.7 with SMTP id z7mr4940209ugi.1162682972355;Sat, 04 >Nov 2006 15:29:32 -0800 (PST) >Received: from ?217.44.191.193? ( [217.44.191.193])by mx.google.com with >ESMTP id x37sm2644822ugc.2006.11.04.15.29.30;Sat, 04 Nov 2006 15:29:31 >-0800 (PST) >X-Message-Info: LsUYwwHHNt3660MmjhEvYg2f34OAemlKtU9j2Z7TuGo= >User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) >References: <BAY101-F163D01CBC3252CC4246594CDFD0@phx.gbl> >X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 192.168.65.34 >X-BeenThere: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 >Precedence: list >List-Id: <eng-warks-birmingham.rootsweb.com> >X-Loop: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com >List-Unsubscribe: ><http://lists9.rootsweb.com/mailman/listinfo/eng-warks-birmingham>,<mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe> >List-Archive: ><http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=eng-warks-birmingham> >List-Post: <mailto:eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> >List-Help: <mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-request@rootsweb.com?subject=help> >List-Subscribe: ><http://lists9.rootsweb.com/mailman/listinfo/eng-warks-birmingham>,<mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe> >Errors-To: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com >Return-Path: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2006 23:29:50.0111 (UTC) >FILETIME=[1F5D1AF0:01C70069] > >Forgot to include this, oops! > >If you go to this page >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm >go to the section for Coventry, and you will be able to search >familysearch.org database for any AMES births, deaths or marriages. This >is a useful way to find siblings, aunts, uncles and so on. > >Kate > > >carole williams wrote: > > Hi > > > > On the 1861 census, RG 9 2201, in the Municipal Ward of Whitefriars, > > Coventry in the parish of St Michael, I've found Thomas AMES 72 and > > Edward AMES 70 as inmates and 'pauper widowers' . > > > > Please could anyone tell me, or how to how to find, more info on their > > background? > > > > Best wishes Carole > > > > > > > > Best wishes Carole > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for > > free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _____________________________________________ > > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > > http://www.bham.de/ > > > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >_____________________________________________ >Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >http://www.bham.de/ > >Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb

Thanks Kate. I use familysearch but not historical directoires - it's fab! Many thanks for pointing it out to me. Best wishes Carole >From: Kate <kate.blogs@gmail.com> >Reply-To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com >To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [B'ham] Coventry workhouse 1861 inmates >Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 23:23:18 +0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from lists9.rootsweb.com ([66.43.27.45]) by >bay0-mc2-f9.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2444); Sat, 4 >Nov 2006 15:25:04 -0800 >Received: from lists9.rootsweb.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])by >lists9.rootsweb.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA4NOAcE009345;Sat, 4 Nov >2006 16:24:24 -0700 >Received: from mail.rootsweb.com (mail.rootsweb.com [192.168.65.34])by >lists9.rootsweb.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA4NO9c2009342for ><ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@lists9.rootsweb.com>;Sat, 4 Nov 2006 16:24:09 -0700 >Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com >[66.249.92.174])by mail.rootsweb.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id >kA4NO7Ca014517for <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com>; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 >16:24:08 -0700 >Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id m3so656098ugefor ><eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com>;Sat, 04 Nov 2006 15:24:07 -0800 (PST) >Received: by 10.67.26.7 with SMTP id d7mr4939158ugj.1162682647639;Sat, 04 >Nov 2006 15:24:07 -0800 (PST) >Received: from ?217.44.191.193? ( [217.44.191.193])by mx.google.com with >ESMTP id 53sm2849559ugn.2006.11.04.15.24.06;Sat, 04 Nov 2006 15:24:07 -0800 >(PST) >X-Message-Info: LsUYwwHHNt2jaCugwTVrC4S3By4tOD0AlqP6pCh8LaQ= >User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) >References: <BAY101-F163D01CBC3252CC4246594CDFD0@phx.gbl> >X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 192.168.65.34 >X-BeenThere: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 >Precedence: list >List-Id: <eng-warks-birmingham.rootsweb.com> >X-Loop: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com >List-Unsubscribe: ><http://lists9.rootsweb.com/mailman/listinfo/eng-warks-birmingham>,<mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe> >List-Archive: ><http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=eng-warks-birmingham> >List-Post: <mailto:eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> >List-Help: <mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-request@rootsweb.com?subject=help> >List-Subscribe: ><http://lists9.rootsweb.com/mailman/listinfo/eng-warks-birmingham>,<mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe> >Errors-To: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com >Return-Path: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2006 23:25:04.0333 (UTC) >FILETIME=[7506D7D0:01C70068] > >Hi Carole, > >If you can find them on earlier censuses and see out what their >occupations were, you might be able to trace them in trade directories, >this is a good place to look >http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp > >They were both born before civil registration began, but you might be >able to find a record of their birth or baptism on familysearch.org >http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp Their >marriages may be listed on there too. > >Kate > > >carole williams wrote: > > Hi > > > > On the 1861 census, RG 9 2201, in the Municipal Ward of Whitefriars, > > Coventry in the parish of St Michael, I've found Thomas AMES 72 and > > Edward AMES 70 as inmates and 'pauper widowers' . > > > > Please could anyone tell me, or how to how to find, more info on their > > background? > > > > Best wishes Carole > > > > > > > > Best wishes Carole > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for > > free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _____________________________________________ > > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > > http://www.bham.de/ > > > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >_____________________________________________ >Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >http://www.bham.de/ > >Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Download the new Windows Live Toolbar, including Desktop search! http://toolbar.live.com/?mkt=en-gb

I have not seen my message on the site so am trying again. Bernard ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bernard Mantell <bwm1928@googlemail.com> Date: 03-Nov-2006 14:35 Subject: Cregoe Street photos To: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-D-request@rootsweb.com Hi I have an ancestor, Charles MANTELL, who ran a chemists shop at No. 22 in the 1850s. I have just looked at Cregoe Street on Google Earth and it has ,obviously, been completely redeveloped. Has anyone got photos of the street before redevelopment? I'd be most grateful. Regards Bernard -- Searching for MANTELL in Salop, Walsall, Birmingham, London, MDX PAINTER in MDX YOUNG in MDX and Worcs Cousins circle the world! http://www.LostCousins.com -- Searching for MANTELL in Salop, Walsall, Birmingham, London, MDX PAINTER in MDX YOUNG in MDX and Worcs Cousins circle the world! http://www.LostCousins.com

> You might have to resort to purchasing the birth cert of Esther and > searching for the baptisms of the other daughters for a wee gem or two! I have already ordered this as she is the only child born after 1837. > Certainly you should follow > through all siblings from your parents back to your grandparents and great > grandparents because each generation will add something to your know ledge. Have you bought bmd certificates for all siblings? That will be very expensive! > Secondly the occupation for Elizabeth in the Workhouse might have related to > previous work, or she might have been living in the Workhouse but found > casual employment outside or she might have been a servant at the Workhouse > for some reason. > Remember the Census records where the individual was on that particular > night and she might have just "popped in" for a day or week or a fortnight! > Perhaps James & Elizabeth were separated at that time if he was away > working? Perhaps he hadn't earned enough money to support her? I am confused that she is listed as married. If James was alive I would have thought he would have been there with her. I think I'll have to look for his death in the GRO index as I cannot find him in the 1861 census. Thanks, Stephen.

Hi Stephen You might have to resort to purchasing the birth cert of Esther and searching for the baptisms of the other daughters for a wee gem or two! I found an early (pre 1837) baptism which told me the mother was born Toronto Canada which was very helpful for example. Certainly you should follow through all siblings from your parents back to your grandparents and great grandparents because each generation will add something to your know ledge. IF you haven't already done that now is the time to start. Collect births, baptisms, marriages, deaths as basic information for each individual in each branch.. Look for death notices, funeral cards, Christmas cards, photos, hobbies, Scouts, Guides, sports etc info which your family might have under the bed! This information will give you more surnames to search which might lead to finding other family members. Secondly the occupation for Elizabeth in the Workhouse might have related to previous work, or she might have been living in the Workhouse but found casual employment outside or she might have been a servant at the Workhouse for some reason. Remember the Census records where the individual was on that particular night and she might have just "popped in" for a day or week or a fortnight! GOOGLE "England Workhouses" there's some fascinating reading about conditions. Perhaps James & Elizabeth were separated at that time if he was away working? Perhaps he hadn't earned enough money to support her? Every bit of info you gain adds to the total picture and only then can you draw conclusions. And every "gem" raises a thousand more questions! Happy hunting Marlene ----- Original Message ----- From: <genukilists@tinfoil.cotse.net> To: "Anne Peat" <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Rice: Robert b. 1828 Ireland m. Birmingham 1850d.1860-1? >> I think James Rice was born in England, but not in Surrey and Robert >> and his mother Elizabeth in Ireland. > > Thank you. This is what I had thought but I wasn't sure; that's why I > wanted someone to double check. Is there anyway I could trace James as > I don't know which county to look in? > >> Have you looked over the page, after the apprentices, where there are >> Martha Rice, 13 born Ireland, Ann Rice 8, born out of county, and >> Elizabeth Rice, 5 and Esther Rice 2, both born Surrey. >> Must be part of the same family. > > Yes, I had found these, thank you. > >> In 1851 Esther and Elizabeth are in Essex. > > Thank you. I had not found these. I started to search for the family > member sin 1851 but found nothing. I must have stopped before I got > this far. > >> There's an Elizabeth Rice pauper in the Southwark Union Workhouse >> Name: Elizabeth Rice >> Age: 50 >> Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801 >> Relation: Pauper >> Gender: Female >> Where born: Cork, Ireland >> >> Occupation servant. Married > > I think I did find this entry but I was confused about it. If her > husband was a whip maker, why would she be in a work house? > > If James had died leaving her without an income, she might have gone > to the work house and yet she is not listed as a widow but as married. > I'll have to look for his death in the GRO index. > > If it is her, then the good news is that it does tell us which part of > Ireland she was from. > > If she is a servant, why is she in a work house rather than living > with the family she serves? > > Thanks, > Stephen. > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

OH DEAR! My typing/proof reading first thing in the morning is not good. Let's start again: Darwin's wife died in June 1770. Mary moved into Darwin's bed by May 1771. Young Mary was born May 1772, Susan 1774, so says the text. The text is confused on this point, and on further reading I'm not now sure who was born first. The index to the book, as pointed out in my earlier email, lists their dates the other way around, and I now note that in the text they are described as Susan aged 9 and Mary 7 at the time of their mother's marriage to John Day, a Birmingham merchant. (There is no other reference to Day in the book, or to any children which he and Mary may have had). Darwin eventually set up Susan and Mary in a school at Ashbourne, where two of his younger children were the first pupils --Darwin still had six children at home under the ago of 9 when he was aged 60! Fascinating stuff!! I hope this is now clear. I must write out 100 times, ........ Keith Houghton [North Richmond, Sydney, Oz.] -----Original Message----- From: Keith Houghton [mailto:keithnh@bigpond.net.au] Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 5:34 AM To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Cc: "'angeloleto@bellsouth.net'"@mail.rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B'ham] Eramus DARWIN, Iliegitimate Children Susanna & Mary PARKER Karen, According to Jenny Uglow's excellent book "The Luinar Men" [Faber & Faber, 2002], Mary Parker snr, [1753-1820] was the governess of Erasmus Darwin's son Robert following the death of Darwin's wife Polly in June 1790, and by May 1791, when still only 17/18, had become his mistress. She bore him the first of two daughters, Mary Parker jnr in May 1792, and Susan in 1774. [I think Uglow has their dates transposed in her index references, 1774 -1859, and 1772 -1856 respectively]. Both girls were brought up in the Darwin household as part of his family. Darwin's relationship with their mother seems to have faded soon after Susan's birth, and Mary snr married John Day in 1782, although she retained a close contact with Darwin and her two girls who remained in the latter's family. Hope this helps. Keith Houghton [North Richmond, Sydney, Oz.] -----Original Message----- From: angeloleto@bellsouth.net [mailto:angeloleto@bellsouth.net] Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 11:36 PM To: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com Subject: [B'ham] Eramus DARWIN, Iliegitimate Children Susanna & Mary PARKER Has anyone information about Eramus Darwin (grandfather to Charles Darwin), specifically his 2 illigetimate daughters by Mary PARKER. Did Mary PARKER go on to marry Joseph Day or was it her daughter Mary PARKER? What were the names of the 5 children they are to have had? I am thinking this may be a connection in some way. Please any help would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Karen karenleto@bellsouth.net

Sorry, a crucial typo in my earlier reply. Jenny Uglow's book is called the LUNAR Men. Keith Houghton [North Richmond, Sydney, Oz.] -----Original Message----- From: angeloleto@bellsouth.net [mailto:angeloleto@bellsouth.net] Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 11:36 PM To: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com Subject: [B'ham] Eramus DARWIN, Iliegitimate Children Susanna & Mary PARKER Has anyone information about Eramus Darwin (grandfather to Charles Darwin), specifically his 2 illigetimate daughters by Mary PARKER. Did Mary PARKER go on to marry Joseph Day or was it her daughter Mary PARKER? What were the names of the 5 children they are to have had? I am thinking this may be a connection in some way. Please any help would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Karen karenleto@bellsouth.net

Karen, According to Jenny Uglow's excellent book "The Luinar Men" [Faber & Faber, 2002], Mary Parker snr, [1753-1820] was the governess of Erasmus Darwin's son Robert following the death of Darwin's wife Polly in June 1790, and by May 1791, when still only 17/18, had become his mistress. She bore him the first of two daughters, Mary Parker jnr in May 1792, and Susan in 1774. [I think Uglow has their dates transposed in her index references, 1774 -1859, and 1772 -1856 respectively]. Both girls were brought up in the Darwin household as part of his family. Darwin's relationship with their mother seems to have faded soon after Susan's birth, and Mary snr married John Day in 1782, although she retained a close contact with Darwin and her two girls who remained in the latter's family. Hope this helps. Keith Houghton [North Richmond, Sydney, Oz.] -----Original Message----- From: angeloleto@bellsouth.net [mailto:angeloleto@bellsouth.net] Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 11:36 PM To: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com Subject: [B'ham] Eramus DARWIN, Iliegitimate Children Susanna & Mary PARKER Has anyone information about Eramus Darwin (grandfather to Charles Darwin), specifically his 2 illigetimate daughters by Mary PARKER. Did Mary PARKER go on to marry Joseph Day or was it her daughter Mary PARKER? What were the names of the 5 children they are to have had? I am thinking this may be a connection in some way. Please any help would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Karen karenleto@bellsouth.net

Hi There, I wrote to this list earlier today to ask for a birth look up and i was very lucky that a Ks, managed to find it for me!..However, i am now looking for a marriage look up please? It is for Flrorence Adams, nee` Shuttleworth and Bobert Lane. I think it took place between 1945/4? and 1949/50? Sorry to be so vuage but, this whole family has not been straight forward!! I would inagin they married in sutton coldfield or Birmingham?..... Florence came from four oaks, sutton coldfield and this would have been her 2nd marriage. They had a daughter Rosemary in 1948in sutton colfield. and another one, Angela in 1950.. Any help at all would be gratefully recieved.. looking forward to hearing from you!!.. Cheers, sandra

Just to add... Erasmus Darwin married for a second time to Eliabeth Pole in 1781. They had four sons and three daughters together: Also, John Day was a merchant from Birmingham. So perhaps a link there. best James www.eboracensis.blogspot.com _____________________________________________ Dr. James Curley Charles & Katherine Darwin Research Fellow, Darwin College Leverhulme Research Fellow, Sub-Department of Animal Behaviour University of Cambridge Madingley CB3 8AA (01223) (7)41812 http://www.zoo.cam.ac.uk/zoostaff/madingley/member_pages/jcurley.htm ----- Original Message ---- From: Keith Houghton <keithnh@bigpond.net.au> To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Cc: 'angeloleto@bellsouth.net'@mail.rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, 5 November, 2006 1:34:07 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Eramus DARWIN, Iliegitimate Children Susanna & Mary PARKER Karen, According to Jenny Uglow's excellent book "The Luinar Men" [Faber & Faber, 2002], Mary Parker snr, [1753-1820] was the governess of Erasmus Darwin's son Robert following the death of Darwin's wife Polly in June 1790, and by May 1791, when still only 17/18, had become his mistress. She bore him the first of two daughters, Mary Parker jnr in May 1792, and Susan in 1774. [I think Uglow has their dates transposed in her index references, 1774 -1859, and 1772 -1856 respectively]. Both girls were brought up in the Darwin household as part of his family. Darwin's relationship with their mother seems to have faded soon after Susan's birth, and Mary snr married John Day in 1782, although she retained a close contact with Darwin and her two girls who remained in the latter's family. Hope this helps. Keith Houghton [North Richmond, Sydney, Oz.] -----Original Message----- From: angeloleto@bellsouth.net [mailto:angeloleto@bellsouth.net] Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 11:36 PM To: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com Subject: [B'ham] Eramus DARWIN, Iliegitimate Children Susanna & Mary PARKER Has anyone information about Eramus Darwin (grandfather to Charles Darwin), specifically his 2 illigetimate daughters by Mary PARKER. Did Mary PARKER go on to marry Joseph Day or was it her daughter Mary PARKER? What were the names of the 5 children they are to have had? I am thinking this may be a connection in some way. Please any help would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Karen karenleto@bellsouth.net _____________________________________________ Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com