Hi Linda before 1927 there was no legal adoption in England Mike Fisher in Droitwich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Yendall" <lynyendall@uniserve.com> To: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:22 PM Subject: [B'ham] DICKENS/DICKENSON/RICE Mystery > > > Hello everyone! > > I have a real mystery; hopefully sks will be able to help me. A > grandfather, born on February 9th 1890, and was placed up for adoption. > He > was adopted by a family that owned a factory in the Birmingham, > Warwickshire > area. > > The only clues to my mystery are: > > 1. The surname of the adopting family was either DICKEN(S) or DICKENSON > 2. Given names: Joseph Henry (a.k.a. Harry) > 3. He later changed his surname to RICE. > 4. He married Frances Violet Ellen KELLEY on 26 November 1919 Birmingham. > > I have not been able to find him listed anywhere including the free bmd or > in the 1891 census. > > My questions are: > > 1. If a child is placed up for adoption would a new birth certificate be > issued under the adopted surname to protect both parties? > > 2. When he took a new surname would it be published in a local newspaper > and if so which archives would I need to check with? > > 3. Is it possible to check for any online parish records for his birth or > marriage? > > 4. Does anyone a have access to these parish records and mind doing a > lookup > for me? > > I do appreciate any help to point me in the right direction and THANK YOU > for taking the time to read this! > > Linda Yendall ~ N. Vancouver Island, BC Canada > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.2/528 - Release Date: 10/11/2006 > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.2/528 - Release Date: 10/11/2006 > > > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Thanks for those that came up with web site and causes of death - i have just come across what I think is the word that was used to describe my g g g grandfathers symptoms - Phrenitis - inflammation of the brain which would tie in with Abscess of the brain. Thanks again everyone Fay

a common cause of death in my family was Pthisis is a word commonly used to describe Pulmonary tuberculosis but actually refers to any wasting disease in which the whole body may be involved or only part of the body. probably not your missing word as it doesn't seem to be associated with the brain J Fay Lewis <fay.lewis@virgin.net> wrote: Hi members, I appreciate this message is not Birmingham Specific so if I am wrong in posting here then I do apologise. I have a copy of my g g g granfathers death certificate which states he died in General Birmingham Hospital in 1839 aged 28 of an abscess to the brain. I visited Birmingham Central Library today to look at the hospital records to find when he had been admitted and to read the hospital notes. Unfortunately the details were very faint and I couldn't decipher the word that had been written when he was first admitted 13 days before he died. In brackets was written "abscess to the cerebellum" which was added after he died. I am sure I have come accross a web site which lists diseases/terms used in that era of causes of death - has anyone else come accross that site? The word that was written when he was first admitted looked like "Th...tis? or possibly could have been a little longer with another couple of letters. I think the "tis" stands for inflammation. Regards Fay _____________________________________________ Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi there, After Dad died Nov 11, 2004, I planted red poppies in his honour (WWII Black Watch of Cda). I wish to add to that garden. As most of Dad's family came from Birmingham (further back to Yks, Wales, Gloucs, Ireland, Kent), I was looking for suggestions for plants/shrubs that are common in that area. They don't have to be native (unless I can get them by seed due to Import Laws), but something that is often found in gardens. Would appreciate any suggestions (off list please). I live in one of the warmer areas of Canada and so many plants that hate deep freezes do well here. Eventually I will have the Genealogy Garden (when I find a plant with a proper name within my tree, will add that as well !!) Thanks Cheryl

Hi members, I appreciate this message is not Birmingham Specific so if I am wrong in posting here then I do apologise. I have a copy of my g g g granfathers death certificate which states he died in General Birmingham Hospital in 1839 aged 28 of an abscess to the brain. I visited Birmingham Central Library today to look at the hospital records to find when he had been admitted and to read the hospital notes. Unfortunately the details were very faint and I couldn't decipher the word that had been written when he was first admitted 13 days before he died. In brackets was written "abscess to the cerebellum" which was added after he died. I am sure I have come accross a web site which lists diseases/terms used in that era of causes of death - has anyone else come accross that site? The word that was written when he was first admitted looked like "Th...tis? or possibly could have been a little longer with another couple of letters. I think the "tis" stands for inflammation. Regards Fay

Hi Fay, This one site I have used....there may be others..... http://www.antiquusmorbus.com/Index.htm Cheryl Fay wrote: I am sure I have come accross a web site which lists diseases/terms used in that era of causes of death - has anyone else come accross that site?

Hello Carole, there is a website dedicated to the Workhouses of the UK, I think it will be accessible through Google. Happy hunting, regards Mick McAllister www.dig4ancestors.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate" <kate.blogs@gmail.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Coventry workhouse 1861 inmates > Yes, it is a really useful site - I have found some interesting bits and > pieces on there. > > Kate > > > carole williams wrote: >> Thanks Kate. >> >> I use familysearch but not historical directoires - it's fab! Many >> thanks for pointing it out to me. >> >> Best wishes Carole >> >> > >

Hello everyone! I have a real mystery; hopefully sks will be able to help me. A grandfather, born on February 9th 1890, and was placed up for adoption. He was adopted by a family that owned a factory in the Birmingham, Warwickshire area. The only clues to my mystery are: 1. The surname of the adopting family was either DICKEN(S) or DICKENSON 2. Given names: Joseph Henry (a.k.a. Harry) 3. He later changed his surname to RICE. 4. He married Frances Violet Ellen KELLEY on 26 November 1919 Birmingham. I have not been able to find him listed anywhere including the free bmd or in the 1891 census. My questions are: 1. If a child is placed up for adoption would a new birth certificate be issued under the adopted surname to protect both parties? 2. When he took a new surname would it be published in a local newspaper and if so which archives would I need to check with? 3. Is it possible to check for any online parish records for his birth or marriage? 4. Does anyone a have access to these parish records and mind doing a lookup for me? I do appreciate any help to point me in the right direction and THANK YOU for taking the time to read this! Linda Yendall ~ N. Vancouver Island, BC Canada -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.2/528 - Release Date: 10/11/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.2/528 - Release Date: 10/11/2006

I think a lot depends on which conversion site you use. I used a site in 2004 and made a note that a 300 pound bequest in 1881 converted to about 15, 000 pounds by today's standards which sounds much more realistic than some of the figures I have seen quoted recently! Especially as the bequest was made by a blacksmith/farmer! Marlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jocelyn Davis" <jdavis@star.net.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 10:54 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] money conversion from 1890 Indeed - as far as I know, in the late 18th and early 19th century, a single gentleman could live quite comfortably for a year on £100. Joss -----Original Message----- From: Michele Le Resche [mailto:michele.leresche@btinternet.com] Sent: 10 November 2006 09:49 To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B'ham] money conversion from 1890 Wow!! So a hundred years previous to that it would have been worth more. In 1796 my great X4 uncle married by license costing him £500. So even based on the 1890 figures and taking just the retail price index, that was £36,655.10p. Michele On 10 Nov 2006, at 00:14, Keith Houghton wrote: Hi Ken, According to measuringworth.com, which has taken over the EHnet "How Much Is that?" website, and uses five different ways of making the calculation, In 2005, £10 0s 0d from 1890 was worth: £733.11 using the retail price index £953.36 using the GDP deflator £4,396.69 using average earnings £5,286.14 using per capita GDP £8,491.34 using the GDP Hope this helps, Keith Houghton North Richmond, Sydney, Oz. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Poole [mailto:kpoole01@rochester.rr.com] Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:22 AM To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Subject: [B'ham] money conversion from 1890 Hello all knowing listers What would 10 pounds be worth today in England. Would that sum be big sum for the service class of people. Thanks Ken Kenton Poole Poole's Creative Concepts 34 Dungan Street Canandaigua, NY 14424 585 486 1248 fax 585 905 0160 p Kpoole01@rochester.rr.com _____________________________________________ Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM- admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS- BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________ Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello all Is anyone researching Henry Allday and family, jewellers? If so, can they please contact me off list. I am writing a book about Key Hill Cemetery and would like to include this family. TIA Pauline

OK, folks - I think this topic has had a good airing, and has become less Birmingham specific now. Time to draw the thread to a close, please! Thanks Wendy B'ham List Admin

Yes, it is a really useful site - I have found some interesting bits and pieces on there. Kate carole williams wrote: > Thanks Kate. > > I use familysearch but not historical directoires - it's fab! Many > thanks for pointing it out to me. > > Best wishes Carole > >

Stephen, Having magnified it several times, I think it reads: Rice Joseph James Birmingham XVI 647 HTH Anne On 10 Nov 2006, at 08:11, genukilists@tinfoil.cotse.net wrote: >> Just had this from Birmingham RO re. Robert: > >>> The entry in December Quarter 1862 was checked but as it is not the >>> one >>> required, it was not detailed (the occupation differed, the age >>> differed by >>> 5 years and no mention is made of Ireland). > >> So it's not our man. > > > I'm looking for the birth of Robert's son, Joseph Rice, now. The > census says he was born about 1851-2. I could not find him on freebmd > but in the GRO index a Joseph Rice appears in 1851 April-June quarter. > Perhaps freebmd has not transcribed this page yet? > > It looks like the information is "Birmingham XVI 66 or 64". Please can > someone else look at it, and tell me what you read it as, as it's > quite a bad image. > > Thanks, > Stephen.

Hi Karen, I would think that your scenario was also common, but baby farmers took money from the mothers which was supposed to cover their expenses while they either cared for the child, or found him/her a better home. In some cases this did happen, but there were many who simply 'disposed' of the babies and kept the cash. It makes sense when you think in terms of unscrupulous people who will do literally anything for money. Kate angeloleto@bellsouth.net wrote: > Is it possible that you have it backwards and the girls were paid FOR their babies? Otherwise it just makes no sense. It isn't that different from today where the living, & medical expenses are paid and then she receives a fee once she signs the papers. You would be surprised what SOME infertile couples are willing to do or PAY to get a baby. Isn't it possible that back in the day a similar thing was happening? Were these babies sent to wealthier homes? This is just an observation, not based on any fact. > > Cheers, > Karen > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I am researching the DEAN family from Birmingham.and I should love to contact anyone who is researching the same family. I have JOSEPH DEAN b 1808 married to Ann Lawrence Children CHARLES LANE DEAN born 1834 HENRY JOSEPH SARAH ANN EMMA JANE GEORGE FREDERICK born 1841 My grandmother was the daughter of George, her name was FLORENCE MARGARET. Have you any of these names? Love to hear from you Joan NZ

Hi Barbara Maybe this was it, not a crash ,but?. 1916, March 1 - the Grand Trunk Railway *Bonaventure Station in Montreal *is destroyed by fire. gary hodge Barbara Jackson wrote: > I'm trying to find Sidney and Amy Briscoe nee > eldershaw on the 1901,they seem to have vanished off > the face of the earth.It's possible that great uncle > Sidney was in South Africa with grand-dad William.Is > it possible his wife might have gone as well?Ideas > please.Also does anyone in canada know where i might > find details of a rail crash in 1916/17 possibly in > the montreal area. > Many thanks > Barbara > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Ken, Try: The Victorian Domestic Servant, by Trevor May [Shire Publns., 2003] ISBN 0-7478-0368-4. Pamela Horn: The rise and fall of the Victorian Servant (Sutton Publishing ltd., Phoenix Mill, Thrupp, Stroud, Glos GL5 2BU), GBP 8.95 ISBN 0-7509-37173. Articles in the Cornhill Magazine 1874 ["On the side of the maids", and "On the side of the mistresses"], and an article on the Victorian household by John Burnett, both of which are on victorianweb.org Keith Houghton North Richmond, Sydney, Oz. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Poole [mailto:kpoole01@rochester.rr.com] Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:23 AM To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Subject: [B'ham] Domestic Servants Does anyone have a good bio of what kind of life a domestic servant lead at the end of the 19th century? Thanks Ken Kenton Poole Poole's Creative Concepts 34 Dungan Street Canandaigua, NY 14424 585 486 1248 fax 585 905 0160 p Kpoole01@rochester.rr.com

Hi Ken, According to measuringworth.com, which has taken over the EHnet "How Much Is that?" website, and uses five different ways of making the calculation, In 2005, £10 0s 0d from 1890 was worth: £733.11 using the retail price index £953.36 using the GDP deflator £4,396.69 using average earnings £5,286.14 using per capita GDP £8,491.34 using the GDP Hope this helps, Keith Houghton North Richmond, Sydney, Oz. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Poole [mailto:kpoole01@rochester.rr.com] Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:22 AM To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Subject: [B'ham] money conversion from 1890 Hello all knowing listers What would 10 pounds be worth today in England. Would that sum be big sum for the service class of people. Thanks Ken Kenton Poole Poole's Creative Concepts 34 Dungan Street Canandaigua, NY 14424 585 486 1248 fax 585 905 0160 p Kpoole01@rochester.rr.com

Hi Michele I suspect (but am happy to be corrected) that the amount you mention was not the actual amount paid for the licence but the bond stated on the licence. It was a bond made that would be payable if either party turned out later to have some impediment to their marriage (i.e. previously married) the bond was rarely paid. Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) Admin for OVINGTON - HAYLOCK - SEYMOUR Lists Wow!! So a hundred years previous to that it would have been worth more. In 1796 my great X4 uncle married by license costing him £500. So even based on the 1890 figures and taking just the retail price index, that was £36,655.10p. Michele

I'm trying to find Sidney and Amy Briscoe nee eldershaw on the 1901,they seem to have vanished off the face of the earth.It's possible that great uncle Sidney was in South Africa with grand-dad William.Is it possible his wife might have gone as well?Ideas please.Also does anyone in canada know where i might find details of a rail crash in 1916/17 possibly in the montreal area. Many thanks Barbara Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com