For Michele and other interested parties, some 'wag' wrote this rather a long time ago, when burial grounds were 'dug up' for the sake of putting in a railway. A Moving Story Another place of worship's doomed, A meeting house of mark And one where Clarke, the parson was - Likewise the parson Clarke The railway wants for station room And so it comes to pass The Unitarian movement now Means moving off, alas! Nor is the chapel only doomed But graveyard too, 'tis said And Unitarian bodies must Move off both quick and dead Poor souls! that there were laid to sleep 'Mid tears of many weepers, Must now give up their places to Make room for other sleepers. The lordly towers of Lawrence there Now buried 'neath the clay The Websters, Bakers, Pembertons Must all be moved away. Dear husbands, sisters, children, wives, Who long in peace have lain, And cousins only once removed Must be moved again. When once the organ rolled and swelled Where rose the sweet-voiced choir The engine whistle now will sound Perhaps a trifle higher. Where once a curious service was Read out or sung in strains Another service now there'll be, A service of quick trains. 'Broad is the way' the preacher said. 'Beware its downward state' But broad this new way will not be, But rather narrow gauge. 'Straight is the road' the preacher said 'Avoid if you'd shun hell' But this new road will not be straight But curve into a tunnel. Farewell! dear dingy Meeting House I sigh, alas! to think That in the chain of history soon You'll be a missing link. One Meeting House went years ago And now we lose another, Gentility moved off the one, Utility the other. When I am gone take careful thought Where you will bury me, Don't stuff me, nor cremate me, nor Yet drop me in the sea. But try a plan that perhaps may bring Some solid consolation, Just plant me where a line may come, And get some compensation. Anon

On 25 Nov, Pauline Roberts <secserve@wilnecote.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote: > Bradford Street only had a small burial ground. Interestingly, this > site was sold to Harrison's Limited (remember Harrison Drape curtain > rail?) and used as a coke store! No mention of where the bodies went, > but either Key Hill or Witton, I suspect. Oh boy. I spent a week as a temp at Harrison's in the 1980s, and one of the reasons I left was I had the most blood-curdling nightmares. I thought it was because they had a dishwasher and put bleach in it, but maybe, just maybe... -- Chris Pampling researching: BARRATT, DANCER, FELLOWS, GOODES, HOLDING, ROBINSON, TUCKLEY, WHEWAY, MAHER all in and around Birmingham/Smethwick, 1850 to present day PAMPLING Cambridgeshire - Sheffield, 1800 to present VARNDELL Wokingham - Birmingham, 1800 to present

Michele Is it just possible that Bradford Street Chapel, although a little far out from New Street could have been the place. The one that was on Monmouth Street (later Colmore Row) was Quaker, so it looks to me like either Cherry Street or Bradford Street. Cherry Street, the first Methodist Chapel in Birmingham was opened by John Wesley in 1782 and Bradford Street followed in 1786. Bradford Street only had a small burial ground. Interestingly, this site was sold to Harrison's Limited (remember Harrison Drape curtain rail?) and used as a coke store! No mention of where the bodies went, but either Key Hill or Witton, I suspect. Cherry Street bodies are also not mentioned, but there is mention of the last minister, Dr Henry Taft, which we have in the catacombs at Key Hill. I am due to check on some records shortly, so I will contact you off list if I find the removal details - although there will not be any names - just 'unidentified remains.........'. Regards Pauline

Hi Michele 8 New Street is probably near the Town Hall end, by where the old RBSA was, but maybe that was his dwelling and not necessarily the school's location? New Street in the early days was THE place to live in Birmingham - there were gates between the road up from the Bull Ring and New Street, so that the residents were kept away from the market riff-raff, presumably. William Hutton lived in New Street. At that time there were only a few schools, the Bluecoat School would have been there (you know the buildings that are at right angles to Colmore Row, and go right up to the back of Rackhams?) The school was Colmore Row end - I have a photograph somewhere, but I have looked and looked today, but cannot locate which book it is in. I doubt if the Early Morning Schools were around at that time - one was in Severn Street, but I shall have to see if I can find out when King Edwards School was founded - he could have taught there. There were several burial grounds for non-conformists, there was one in front of what became the Gt Western Railway, which was dug up when the railway arrived (there is a wonderful poem about that), however, I think that may have been Quakers. There was a burial ground attached to the church in Cherry Street (one Wesley himself opened or visited) and that was dug up and bodies removed to Witton around 1882/3 for the cutting through of Corporation Street. I would suggest that is where you look - it was known as Cherry Street Chapel, and I do have photographs if you find it is the one your ancestors attended. This Chapel was approximately at the end of Cherry Street at the junction with Corporation Street, where the Rackhams entrance is. I shall be back when I have looked it up more. Regards Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michele Le Resche" <michele.leresche@btinternet.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Birmingham Boarding School > I find the school location fascinating. > My 5 X grandfather was the first Le Resche to come to Birmingham, we > were in Halifax prior to that. > > He is in the directories for the late 1770's 5 times, at 2 he is > living at 8 New Street, and the other 3, 15, Colmore Row. > Charles Le Resche. Schoolmaster. > So, he ran a school, Maybe it is one of the 3 Pauline mentions. > I would love to know. > > Sadly that so far is all we know about him, except he had 2 sons, > 1,the older returned to Halifax, and the other stayed here, (we > believe must have been born about 174-50's ? where, as he has 2 sons > we know of, born in the 1770's and possibly a 3rd who I found in a > trade directory working as a Jappenneer in the 1820's.) The grandson > born in Halifax in 1775, came to Birmingham who is my 3 X > grandfather. We think he came back quite young, and may have been > raised by the other son who has no children we have been able to find > after a licence marriage in 1796 at St. Martins. (The family was non > conformist prior to that, not making record hunting in Halifax easy > or indeed non conformist records here.) But he became a attender at > St Martins as we think we have found the baptism of him as an older > child there, Henry , he and then went into the then family profession > of teaching. Or as the men put school masters. He certainly married > twice there by banns. > After that they attended St. Philips. > > And when Key Hill opened Pauline has found 3 graves of our family so > far there. > > Does anyone know where non conformists got buried before municipal > cemeteries? > I know many met in rooms and houses and meeting rooms and may not > have had an attached graveyard? > > There were 2 Wesleyian meeting places very close to both my Charles's > addresses so we do not know which Charles attended. > > Off topic but.... > Having originally always been told we were conquering Norman's, 1066 > and all that, we now are starting to believe we were Huguenot's, > because of the non conformist links, they were non Catholics in > France, converted by John Calvin, who were greatly persecuted for > their faith and many died, but over 400,000 left France for other > countries in the late 1600's and early 1700's.. About 200,000 came > here. Half came via Suffolk and the rest via Devon . > Skilled workers and nobility in many cases. > One case I read of a family so desperate to leave being found in > barrels coming off a ship in Devon. > (There was a massive massacre of them in France one St Bartholomew's > Day, a saint they followed and so were sitting targets as they > celebrated.) > And they mostly anglicised quickly with name changes of say Le Blanc > to White ,Le Noir to Black etc..... > another good one L'Oiseau to Bird-!! Might have the French spelling > wrong!!! > > > Michele > >

Nirvard I am sorry to disagree, but I have again checked, and the Blue Coat Schools - (yes, plural), on the LDS disk is as Uninhabited, as is St Philips Church. You are perhaps using some other transcription? If the Bluecoat school was uninhabited, and the census was meant to list who was there on the night of the census, it surely proves that it was not a boarding, but a day school? What you say about how they are listed may be true in some instances, however, I worked in the building next to where the Bluecoat School was, for over thirteen years, and as a Birmingham born 'girl' know the area like the back of my hand. I used the census, an Alan Godfrey Map of 1902/1911 and my own knowledge. I know Colmore Row and the buildings and area extremely well. Severn Street is fairly near to the end of Colmore Row, so I am sure that I am pretty much right in my deduction, although no school is marked on the Alan Godfrey Map except the Bluecoat School. In this instance, at least as far as the LDS 1881 disks are concerned, the census is exactly as the buildings were, and as they have only been replaced, one could almost say exactly as it stands today, so the schools and institutions are not listed together. Regards Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@btconnect.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Birmingham Boarding School > Hi Pauline > > I do not question its location but with respect, the Blue Coat School is not > enumerated as 'uninhabited' > > It is noted in its correct location but all other details are blank > including the Uninhabited column, which is how many institutions are shown > on the census, the census page is RG11 2979 4 2 > > As I said previously the institutions are always enumerated on separate > schedules and come at the end of the section. > > Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > > > > >I have only half read some of these posting recently, and might have got > >the > > wrong end of the stick completely, but I can confirm after viewing the > > 1881 > > census on disk, the Birmingham Boarding School was not the Bluecoat School > > (which was opposite St Philip's Church, at right angles to Colmore Row), > > and > > the Bluecoat School is actually on the census as 'uninhabited'. Next > > door > > to that is 'Gt Western Arcade'. > > >

On 25 Nov, Michele Le Resche <michele.leresche@btinternet.com> wrote: > And they mostly anglicised quickly with name changes of say Le Blanc > to White ,Le Noir to Black etc..... > another good one L'Oiseau to Bird-!! Might have the French spelling > wrong!!! There is a school of thought that says that my WHEWAY ancestors should be pronounced HUET (hugh-way) as they were Huguenots. However, we have managed to trace them back to the mid 1500s in Nuneaton, which I think discounts the Huguenot theory. -- Chris Pampling researching: BARRATT, DANCER, FELLOWS, GOODES, HOLDING, ROBINSON, TUCKLEY, WHEWAY, MAHER all in and around Birmingham/Smethwick, 1850 to present day PAMPLING Cambridgeshire - Sheffield, 1800 to present VARNDELL Wokingham - Birmingham, 1800 to present

has anyone had a membership with friends reunited, mine just ran out, i did not want to renew it, i have just recieved an email thanking me for renewing my membership, which i did not want, they have taken the £7.50 out of my account, which i think is a bloody cheek i did not give them any reason to believe i wanted to renew it, they must have the card details on record, i have written requesting they reimburse my account and close my membership, i won.t hold my breath anyone els had this problem sue

Hello Brian, Birmingham Archives were not at all sure that it was the Blue Coat School as they said they did not have any info apart from the fact that the Blue Coat School had moved to Harborne. Why I think it was fee paying as my Gt. Grandfather was in business and I somehow do not think he would have been able to get his son into a Charity School. Perhaps with all the discussions w may be able to get to the bottom of this Brick Wall. I never thought a school would cause so much discussion and having a quirky sense of humour I find it all rather funny. I hope I do not offend anyone by saying this as no offence was intended. Cheers Pauline -----Original Message----- From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Slim Sent: 24 November 2006 19:30 To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B'ham] Birmingham boarding school Reference to Colmore row and Ann st support the school being the Blue Coat. Bryan Slim >Hi Anne, >Birmingham Boarding school ref. on 1881 Census is PRO Ref: RG11 2979 >Folio 1. Page 1. Birmingham library did not think it was anything to >the Blue Coat School. Looking either side (Resource File Viewer) the >Streets shown on either side are Fordrough St, and Ann St. somewhere in the >area of Colmore Row. I think but am not sure that it was a Fee Paying >School. >Cheers >Pauline > > >-----Original Message----- >From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com >[mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Anne Peat >Sent: 23 November 2006 13:44 >To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com >Cc: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [B'ham] birmingham boarding school > >Can you give us the page reference so that we can look at the original? >That might give some more clues. >Anne >On 23 Nov 2006, at 09:56, J hodge wrote: > >> >> Hi List >> >> I have a person who may be one of my rellies in the 1881 census , the >> street address was listed just as birmingham boarding school, the >> rellie >> was listed as a boarder aged 13. >> >> Where was this school and what was it , a correctional or fee paying >> school. >> >> gary hodge >> >> > >_____________________________________________ >Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >http://www.bham.de/ > >Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >_____________________________________________ >Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >http://www.bham.de/ > >Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word >'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >message _____________________________________________ Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I find the school location fascinating. My 5 X grandfather was the first Le Resche to come to Birmingham, we were in Halifax prior to that. He is in the directories for the late 1770's 5 times, at 2 he is living at 8 New Street, and the other 3, 15, Colmore Row. Charles Le Resche. Schoolmaster. So, he ran a school, Maybe it is one of the 3 Pauline mentions. I would love to know. Sadly that so far is all we know about him, except he had 2 sons, 1,the older returned to Halifax, and the other stayed here, (we believe must have been born about 174-50's ? where, as he has 2 sons we know of, born in the 1770's and possibly a 3rd who I found in a trade directory working as a Jappenneer in the 1820's.) The grandson born in Halifax in 1775, came to Birmingham who is my 3 X grandfather. We think he came back quite young, and may have been raised by the other son who has no children we have been able to find after a licence marriage in 1796 at St. Martins. (The family was non conformist prior to that, not making record hunting in Halifax easy or indeed non conformist records here.) But he became a attender at St Martins as we think we have found the baptism of him as an older child there, Henry , he and then went into the then family profession of teaching. Or as the men put school masters. He certainly married twice there by banns. After that they attended St. Philips. And when Key Hill opened Pauline has found 3 graves of our family so far there. Does anyone know where non conformists got buried before municipal cemeteries? I know many met in rooms and houses and meeting rooms and may not have had an attached graveyard? There were 2 Wesleyian meeting places very close to both my Charles's addresses so we do not know which Charles attended. Off topic but.... Having originally always been told we were conquering Norman's, 1066 and all that, we now are starting to believe we were Huguenot's, because of the non conformist links, they were non Catholics in France, converted by John Calvin, who were greatly persecuted for their faith and many died, but over 400,000 left France for other countries in the late 1600's and early 1700's.. About 200,000 came here. Half came via Suffolk and the rest via Devon . Skilled workers and nobility in many cases. One case I read of a family so desperate to leave being found in barrels coming off a ship in Devon. (There was a massive massacre of them in France one St Bartholomew's Day, a saint they followed and so were sitting targets as they celebrated.) And they mostly anglicised quickly with name changes of say Le Blanc to White ,Le Noir to Black etc..... another good one L'Oiseau to Bird-!! Might have the French spelling wrong!!! Michele

Unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Wood To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 9:40 PM Subject: unsubscribe

Hi Pauline I do not question its location but with respect, the Blue Coat School is not enumerated as 'uninhabited' It is noted in its correct location but all other details are blank including the Uninhabited column, which is how many institutions are shown on the census, the census page is RG11 2979 4 2 As I said previously the institutions are always enumerated on separate schedules and come at the end of the section. Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) >I have only half read some of these posting recently, and might have got >the > wrong end of the stick completely, but I can confirm after viewing the > 1881 > census on disk, the Birmingham Boarding School was not the Bluecoat School > (which was opposite St Philip's Church, at right angles to Colmore Row), > and > the Bluecoat School is actually on the census as 'uninhabited'. Next > door > to that is 'Gt Western Arcade'.

G'day Listers, I send my deepest heartfelt "THANK YOU" to Barb Stacey, John S Sermon and Jon Newman. You have been so kind in your assistance with my question regarding the Surman families from Warwickshire. With your aid I now have a much bigger picture in regards to Thomas Sermon. His daughter Mary married my g g g grandfather. Mary was a widow when she married Septimus Newcombe in 1858 (he too was a widower). There were no children from this marriage but it is still nice to be able to fill in her family line. Her name when she married Septimus was Mary Cottrell, she was aged 40. I have no idea who her first husband was or if infact they had children. Septimus has been a funny and interesting man to research. He married 3 times and had only 1 child, that I know of. His third wife he married in April 1881. Her name was Elizabeth Sheffield and she was listed as 25 on their marriage certificate he was a 60 year old widower. In the 1881 census she is residing with him and she is listed as his niece aged 15 years. On searching Elizabeth's family line she was in fact aged 15 in 1881, interesting that he married such a much younger wife third time around and that they lied about her age. To date I have found no proof that she was his niece. Also in searching Septimus's history there is no proof to date of where or when his first wife died, Hannah Newcombe nee Pacey. Also I have yet to find what happened to his third wife. Both these women seem to have just disappeared off the face of the earth. Genealogy is much like a jigsaw puzzle, trying to find which piece fits in where and when you find the piece that fits nicely it is oh so exciting, but the rest of the time is frustrating. Best wishes to you all, and again many thanks for your help and assistance. Melissa in Australia.

I have only half read some of these posting recently, and might have got the wrong end of the stick completely, but I can confirm after viewing the 1881 census on disk, the Birmingham Boarding School was not the Bluecoat School (which was opposite St Philip's Church, at right angles to Colmore Row), and the Bluecoat School is actually on the census as 'uninhabited'. Next door to that is 'Gt Western Arcade'. As part of what is now Colmore Row was actually Ann Street (from Newhall Street to the Town Hall), and moving a little bit further up Ann Street, one of the next buildings was in Severn Street (off Hill Street), so it looks like the Birmingham Boarding School was towards the Town Hall end of Colmore Row - possibly just at the end of Waterloo Street, and next to Christchurch (demolished 1902 to make way for what became Galloways Corner). I hope this has helped, if only a little. Pauline

Thank you John I will certainly look at this next time I am in Kew John -- John Sermon NDD FCSD general consultant designer 24 Monks Walk, EVESHAM, Worcestershire WR11 4SL (0)1386 49 967 07702 440 891 design@johnsermon.demon.co.uk www.johnsermon.demon.co.uk

Yes but now ends just short of Aston Expressway north of Park Circus. Thomas Street runs alongside the Aston Expressway about half mile south of Park Circus, according to my recent road map. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "ALAN FIELD" <afield.family@btopenworld.com> To: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 1:34 PM Subject: [B'ham] Albert road Aston Manor > Hello List, > Would anyone know whether Albert road in Aston Manor is still there. > Also whether any of the houses have been demolished. > Also thomas street as anyone heard of this and where was it located can > not find it on old maps. > Many thanks! > San > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Albert Road runs between Birchfield Road and Aston Park. I can't visualise that particular street, but from what I can remember of nearby Witton Road a lot of old housing does remain. There is a Thomas Street running alongside the southern end of the Aston Expressway, just south of Park Lane. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "ALAN FIELD" <afield.family@btopenworld.com> To: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 1:34 PM Subject: [B'ham] Albert road Aston Manor > Hello List, > Would anyone know whether Albert road in Aston Manor is still there. > Also whether any of the houses have been demolished. > Also thomas street as anyone heard of this and where was it located can > not find it on old maps. > Many thanks! > San

Hello List, Would anyone know whether Albert road in Aston Manor is still there. Also whether any of the houses have been demolished. Also thomas street as anyone heard of this and where was it located can not find it on old maps. Many thanks! San

Gary On checking the 1861 Trade Directory I am not sure that it was the Blue Coat School - see my earlier reply to your question. Also was predominately a Charity School, with some fee paying students , but I not sure it was a Boarding School. Using the Neighbour search on 1881, I found the ' Birmingham Boarding School " was in Ann Street. Ann Street is off New Street. King Edward College was on the corner of New Street, and St Philip's Place , possibly occupying a whole block - See their web site at ! http://www.kes.bham.sch.uk/ hth Helen New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: J hodge [mailto:jhdl10848@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Friday, 24 November 2006 8:54 p.m. To: hverrall@ihug.co.nz Subject: boarding school Hi Verrall Thanks , Now what was it a charity or a fee paying or correctional school in those days. gary hodge -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.14/548 - Release Date: 23/11/2006 3:22 p.m. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.14/548 - Release Date: 23/11/2006 3:22 p.m.

Hi Gary The Institutions always come at the end of an enumeration section and are enumerated separately with no direct connection to the surrounding streets in 1881 or other years, although it would be in the same general area. If its not the Blue Coat School its a large coincidence that the same Headmaster and the same secretary are working together in the same capacities in 1871 and 1881 and the same staff are together in 1891. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1891 RG12 2379 122 1 William Edward BOLTON Secretary George Simmonds DUNN 54 Schoolmaster Lizzie Emma ARNOLD 48 Matron Bessie GREEN 47 schoolmistress Birmingham Sub-registration district: St Thomas ED, institution, or vessel: The Blue Coat School Birmingham ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1881 RG11 2979 1 1 Henry Price 58 Secretary and steward George Simmonds DUNN (BA) 44 Eliza Emma ARNOLD Matron 36 Bessie GREEN schoolmistress 36 St Thomas District Unknown Institution ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1871 RG10 3112 90 1 Henry PRICE 48 Secretary and Steward George Simmonds DUNN 34 Master Bessie GREEN school mistress 26 St Philip District Blue Coat Charity School ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) Admin for OVINGTON - HAYLOCK - SEYMOUR Lists > Hi Anne, > Birmingham Boarding school ref. on 1881 Census is PRO Ref: RG11 2979 > Folio 1. Page 1. Birmingham library did not think it was anything to > the Blue Coat School. Looking either side (Resource File Viewer) the > Streets shown on either side are Fordrough St, and Ann St. somewhere in > the > area of Colmore Row. I think but am not sure that it was a Fee Paying > School. > Cheers > Pauline <snip> >> Hi List >> >> I have a person who may be one of my rellies in the 1881 census , the >> street address was listed just as birmingham boarding school, the >> rellie >> was listed as a boarder aged 13. >> >> Where was this school and what was it , a correctional or fee paying >> school. >> >> gary hodge

Joy, the street ran along where the Lawley mid way is now, on a modern B'Ham map. It was in the Nechells area of Birmingham. Go to the link Wendy posted you and brows the site and the forum. There is a lot of info on there about the area and people to help with other questions you may have about Lawley St/Gem St and photos of the area too. Chris P. NZ :-)