This is a transcript from the 1851: Head: CHINN, William Name Relationship Mar Age Sex Occupation Birthplace William CHINN Head M 53 M Gardener Tanworth-WAR Elizabeth CHINN Wife M 52 F --- Broom-WAR Harriett CHINN Daur U 26 F Laundress Birmingham-WAR Ezekiel CHINN Son - 8m M --- Birm-WAR Address: Tennant St 21 Court 1 House, Birmingham Census Place: Birmingham ---, Warwickshire PRO Reference: HO/107/2052/215-47 ***************************** And from the LDS: EZEKIEL CHINN Christening: 05 JAN 1851 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England Parents: Father: WILLIAM CHINN Family Mother: HARRIET Source Information: Batch No.: Dates: C041171 1829 - 1853 ******************************************************** And, GRO Registered as Wm Ezekiel Chinn, Sep 1850, Bham XVI 408 Appart from the obvious - is there another interpretation? Peter Turner Peter Turner (Birmingham, UK) peterct1945@yahoo.co.uk Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

See if there was an Elizabeth Bayliss married to a THOMAS and death of a THOMAS before she married again. THat would confirm I am sure. Ken B ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Foster" <andfos69@hotmail.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 2:40 AM Subject: [B'ham] Stepfather query > Hi List, > > This may seem like a general query but it's firmly based in Birmingham > > My gg grandmother's married name was Elizabeth Burns. On each of her > children's birth certificates she is named as Elizabeth Burns, formerly > Thomas. I've got hold of her marriage certificate (23/6/1845) and she is > named, again, as Elizabeth Thomas, spinster, but her father is identified > as Samuel Bayliss. > > The question is, would her real father have been Thomas or Bayliss, and > which would have been the step-father? Does anybody know if there was a > convention in those days for what was written on marriage certificates? > > She was married at St Martin's - would the parish records give more > information? > > I suspect that she was out in service on the 1841 census and so there are > no clues to be found. > > Any help would be welcome. > > Andrew > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Andrew, I would say her birth name would have been BAYLISS. I have one exactly the same in 1864but on their first born child birth cert It reads Mary Ann to John BURBANK and Fanny Mary BURBANK Late HARRISON formerly KNOWLES which made her birth name as KNOWLES Ken B ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Foster" <andfos69@hotmail.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 2:40 AM Subject: [B'ham] Stepfather query > Hi List, > > This may seem like a general query but it's firmly based in Birmingham > > My gg grandmother's married name was Elizabeth Burns. On each of her > children's birth certificates she is named as Elizabeth Burns, formerly > Thomas. I've got hold of her marriage certificate (23/6/1845) and she is > named, again, as Elizabeth Thomas, spinster, but her father is identified > as Samuel Bayliss. > > The question is, would her real father have been Thomas or Bayliss, and > which would have been the step-father? Does anybody know if there was a > convention in those days for what was written on marriage certificates? > > She was married at St Martin's - would the parish records give more > information? > > I suspect that she was out in service on the 1841 census and so there are > no clues to be found. > > Any help would be welcome. > > Andrew > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Vic, I do remember a pub on the corner of Upper Sutton St and Tower Rd but not the name, is this the one? Ken B ----- Original Message ----- From: <VAGarvey@aol.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 2:14 AM Subject: [B'ham] Albert road Aston Manor > Hi All, > > The various notes make interesting reading. I was born at 12/129 Clifton > Road, (our little back to back) Aston and lived there until we were bombed > on > the night of 26 October 1940. The only bit of Clifton Road left is about > 600 > yards of the road at the end where it runs into Upper Sutton Street. I was > last > there in 1998 and recall some sort of Institute at the side of what's left > of the road; then there came a large gate (mentioned by John) which is > kept > locked, to keep you away from Aston Expressway under which the rest of > Clifton > Road lies.Our Dad used to drink in the Swan Pub in Upper Sutton Street (I > think it was there), and wonder if it still there? > > Regards to everyone, > > Vic, > Kent, UK > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks for that John. Ken B ----- Original Message ----- From: "John K Colin" <jkcolin@johnkenneth.freeserve.co.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 9:39 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Albert road Aston Manor > Hi Kenneth > > In one word NONE, > Even some of the streets have gone.....Aston Cross has changed totally, > the > side were the library was is almost the same, the otherside of rocky lane > I > thick that only the old TV studio and post office remains, Ansells has > long > gone, the HP will be that way soon I expect......Upper Thomas Street from > Parklane to Tower Road is still there, but there are not houses just the > offices of HP, plus on the other side runs the Aston Express way, you > cannot > enter Upper Thomas Street because of a large gate which is locked, Tower > Road from Aston Cross is now the entrance to the HP, Upper Sutton Street > is > still there, but nothing like it was, Sutton Street has changed direction, > it now run from Parklane into what was the Retreat, Wilkinson Street, > Upper > Webster Street and joins Parliament Street where Parliament Street use to > meet Upper Webster Street, I don't think Clifton Road is there any more, > the > only part of Tower Road is that stretch from Upper Sutton Street to Upper > Thomas Street, again no houses, the side where the vinegar vaults were is > now the back end of a garden centre, the other side I think is a junior > and > infant school. > I will just add that if you cross Victoria Road, Bevington Road, Albert > Road, Frederick Road and most of the others are almost still > intact..........Hope this has been of some help Kenneth, a good web > site > to visit is www.astonbrook-through-astonmanor.co.uk > > Regards John K Colin (aston born and bred) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kenneth William Bibb" <kbibb@bigpond.com> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:25 AM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Albert road Aston Manor > > >> John, >> I have lived in Australia for 37 yrs, I used to deliver milk to Upper >> Thomas >> St Upper Sutton St Clifton Rd Tower Rd in 1950-1951, we used to start at >> the >> co-op shops at Aston Cross, can you tell me how much of the buildings are >> left now? >> Appreciate it. Ken B >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John K Colin" <jkcolin@johnkenneth.freeserve.co.uk> >> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [B'ham] Albert road Aston Manor >> >> >>> Hi San, >>> >>> Nearly all of Albert Road remains as it was, the only part of it which >>> has >>> gone, are the house's from the Park Road to Upper Thomas Street which I >>> think are the higher numbers, >>> >>> Thomas Street also remains but not the house's, this area was >>> redeveloped >>> the late 1960's early 70's...... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: "Kenneth William Bibb" <kbibb@bigpond.com> >>> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 4:19 AM >>> Subject: Re: [B'ham] Albert road Aston Manor >>> >>> >>>> San >>>> On my 1923 map I can tell you that Albert Rd ran from Mansfield Rd >>>> (which >>>> was just down from Five Ways) across Witton Rd and down to Witton Lane >>>> running Parallel with Victoria Rd. Thomas St was near Aston Cross ran >>>> from >>>> Phillips St to Park Lane. Alot of theis area was demolished for the >>>> expressway but Thomas St runs alongside the Aston Expressway. >>>> >>>> Ken B >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "ALAN FIELD" <afield.family@btopenworld.com> >>>> To: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 11:34 PM >>>> Subject: [B'ham] Albert road Aston Manor >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello List, >>>>> Would anyone know whether Albert road in Aston Manor is still there. >>>>> Also whether any of the houses have been demolished. >>>>> Also thomas street as anyone heard of this and where was it located >>>>> can >>>>> not find it on old maps. >>>>> Many thanks! >>>>> San >>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >>>>> http://www.bham.de/ >>>>> >>>>> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >>>>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> _____________________________________________ >>>> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >>>> http://www.bham.de/ >>>> >>>> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >>>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> _____________________________________________ >>> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >>> http://www.bham.de/ >>> >>> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Andrew, I found this on FreeBMD: Marriages Jun 1845 Vol Page Bayliss Elizabeth Birmingham 16 339 Burns Edwin Gardner Birmingham 16 339 Thomas Elizabeth Birmingham 16 339 If I were you I would also get Elizabeth Bayliss's marriage cert', if you haven't already. Chris P. NZ :-)

Gary I don't think Fordrough Lane was particularly small, the Post Office offices were there in Small Heath, at least in the 1960's as we had a friend working there. I don't know exactly where it was, but I think near to Green Lane, Small Heath, which is nearer to town than Hay Mills. A 'fordrough' is something slightly different, although I cannot remember what, I seem to have seen it somewhere, but there is nothing in the Oxford Concise. I suspect it is another name for 'alley' (as in Needless Alley), but I would not like to state that categorically. Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "J hodge" <jhdl10848@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: [B'ham] reformatory school > Hi List > > Seeing as you like discussing Schools on the list !!, heres another one > to get a grip on, > > 1881 > Institution: "Fordrough Lane Reformatory School" > Census Place: Aston, Warwick, England > Source: FHL Film 1341728 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3049 Folio > 63 Page 30 > > Now my ancestors lived and worked in the FORDROUGH , hay mills,then in > worcestershire, birmingham , > where was this school and is there a connection with my address, I > cannot see it myself as the "fordrough " was only a small place with a > factory and about 20-30 cottages. > > gary hodge > > >

Hi Ken Sorry, it is not listed in a current A-Z, but there is a Whitland Drive in Birmingham 14, and a Whitland Close in Birmingham 45 - both of which I suspect will not be what you are after. It is worth considering that it may not have been a street or a cul-de-sca, but a series of houses. This often occurred. I have a rellies born in Eugenie Place, which was just a row of about 6 houses along Ladywood Road. Regards Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Poole" <kpoole01@rochester.rr.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 10:47 AM Subject: [B'ham] Whitland Place Hello Listers Does Whitland Place still exist in Birmingham. Thanks Ken Kenton Poole Poole's Creative Concepts 34 Dungan Street Canandaigua, NY 14424 585 486 1248 fax 585 905 0160 p Kpoole01@rochester.rr.com

Many thanks. This is a real breakthrough. I just checked on IGI and an Elizabeth Bayliss was married in the same church on exactly the same day in 1845. It looks like a clerical error on the day but I'll have a look at the other marriage certificate to check. Thanks again. Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. Pounder" <cpounder@ihug.co.nz> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Stepfather query > Hi Andrew, I found this on FreeBMD: > > Marriages Jun 1845 Vol Page > Bayliss Elizabeth Birmingham 16 339 > Burns Edwin Gardner Birmingham 16 339 > Thomas Elizabeth Birmingham 16 339 > > If I were you I would also get Elizabeth Bayliss's marriage cert', if you > haven't already. > > Chris P. NZ :-) > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

http://www.hunimex.com/warwick/index.html On 29/11/06, IWells <iwells@kingston.net> wrote: > > Hello: > Could you kindly send me the website for Pickards Pink Pages as my Aunt > LILY > BURLTON had a son, JOHN BURLTON, born in Aston, Birmingham, in 1917 and > there was no father listed on the birth certificate. > Thank you > Isobel > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George Haden" <georgehaden@mac.com> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:38 AM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] birth certificate information > > > > Look in Pickards Pink Pages for a List of bastardly orders > > > > On Nov 29, 2006, at 6:51 AM, JANE DYER wrote: > > > > > I have a similar problem in that my great grandfather was > > > illegitemate. Someone suggested looking up the bastardy orders > > > which I expect are held in Birmingham Central Library. > > > J > > > > > > Ken Poole <kpoole01@rochester.rr.com> wrote: > > > Thanks Pete, thats what I have except there is no father listed > > > (illegitimate birth) so it hard to triangulate - father - marriage - > > > mother, > > > I must have five likely candidates who could be the mother and > > > without a > > > birthdate or something factual to help identify > > > her it becomes an educated guess, a genealogist nightmare. > > > Ken > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Pete Hulme" > > > > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 2:48 AM > > > Subject: Re: [B'ham] birth certificate information > > > > > > > > >> Hi Ken, > > >> The full certificates that I have give the date of birth, the > > >> address of the birth, name of the baby and the name and maiden > > >> name of > > >> the mother. I've never seen one that gave the mother's age, that's on > > >> marriage certificates. > > >> > > >> Cheers, > > >> Pete > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> Hi Listers > > >> Is it common that mother's on birth certificates from the 1890's are > > >> only identified by their name > > >> but not address or birthdate? or do I have a shortened format. > > >> Otherwise I have a name shared by > > >> many others at that time. > > >> Cheers > > >> Ken > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _____________________________________________ > > >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > > >> http://www.bham.de/ > > >> > > >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > > >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > > >> ------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > _____________________________________________ > > > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > > > http://www.bham.de/ > > > > > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM- > > > admin@rootsweb.com > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS- > > > BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > _____________________________________________ > > > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > > > http://www.bham.de/ > > > > > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM- > > > admin@rootsweb.com > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS- > > > BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > _____________________________________________ > > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > > http://www.bham.de/ > > > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Best wishes, David Fisher. "I intend to live forever... so far so good!" -- Pictures of FISHERs (Brum), CONGREAVEs (Notts and Brum) and PUGHs and GATENBYs (Durham, Yorks and Brum) at http://snygyst.blogspot.com Images of BRUM at http://brummages.blogspot.com

Hi Sarah and Andrew Just to clarify - the certificate would not say 'nee'. If she was a widow of a Mr Thomas, it would say 'LATE Thomas, FORMERLY (whatever her maiden name was)'. Spinster on a certificate definitely should mean she had not been previously married (although it's possible that she could have lied about that - I've had men claiming to be bachelors when they were widowers!). Joss > >Hi Andrew, >Giving her the benefit of the doubt, her first husband could have been a >Mr. >Thomas, since it say 'formerly' rather than 'nee.' Okay it says 'spinster' > >on her marriage certificate rather than 'widow' or 'relict' but back then > >spinster was an 'unmarried woman of gentle family' in my Websters. It would > >clarify her position, especially if Papa Bayliss was a gentleman. > >Regards, >Sarah Reveley in sunny mild Texas >seeking Croughtons in Birmingham > >Reveleys in Cumberland UK and America >http://www.tribalpages.com/tribes/rvly > ___________________________________________________________ Tiscali Broadband only 9.99 a month for your first 3 months! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/

Hi again I would not give up just yet, I have had that same thought many times, give it time and something may crop up. Just to correct something , the IGI is in the main Baptisms not births and is very far from complete so your Elizabeth may not be on it at all. The fact that she married there does not neccesarily mean she was baptised there. Good luck Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) Admin for OVINGTON - HAYLOCK - SEYMOUR Lists > Many thanks for the suggestions. > Yes, I've checked births via LDS and there's one contender. An Elizabeth > Thomas was christened at St Martins at the right sort of date (2/12/1823), > to John and Ann Thomas. The problem is that St Martin's was a large parish > and Thomas was a pretty common surname. I guess it's one of those > situation > where we'll never know for sure. > > Andrew

Many thanks for the suggestions. Yes, I've checked births via LDS and there's one contender. An Elizabeth Thomas was christened at St Martins at the right sort of date (2/12/1823), to John and Ann Thomas. The problem is that St Martin's was a large parish and Thomas was a pretty common surname. I guess it's one of those situation where we'll never know for sure. Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@btconnect.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com>; <andfos69@hotmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Stepfather query > Hi Andrew > > If my reading of your situation is correct, your Elizabeth THOMAS is the > daughter of a miss THOMAS and her father was Samuel BAYLISS they either > did not marry or married after the birth although more likely the former. > > The Parish Register should show the same information but always worth > checking > > Have you tried for a Baptism for Elizabeth? > > Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > Admin for OVINGTON - HAYLOCK - SEYMOUR Lists > > >> My gg grandmother's married name was Elizabeth Burns. On each of her >> children's birth certificates she is named as Elizabeth Burns, formerly >> Thomas. I've got hold of her marriage certificate (23/6/1845) and she is >> named, again, as Elizabeth Thomas, spinster, but her father is identified >> as Samuel Bayliss. >> >> The question is, would her real father have been Thomas or Bayliss, and >> which would have been the step-father? Does anybody know if there was a >> convention in those days for what was written on marriage certificates? >> >> She was married at St Martin's - would the parish records give more >> information? >> >> I suspect that she was out in service on the 1841 census and so there are >> no clues to be found. >> >> Any help would be welcome. >> >> Andrew > >

I suspect many people have illegitemate ancestors. I have a couple at least, around the mid to late 1800s and was told that bastardy records were not usually available at such a late date. Mine were in Oxfordshire, but I would be interested if there are later records. beth in NS ----- Original

Hi Andrew If my reading of your situation is correct, your Elizabeth THOMAS is the daughter of a miss THOMAS and her father was Samuel BAYLISS they either did not marry or married after the birth although more likely the former. The Parish Register should show the same information but always worth checking Have you tried for a Baptism for Elizabeth? Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) Admin for OVINGTON - HAYLOCK - SEYMOUR Lists > My gg grandmother's married name was Elizabeth Burns. On each of her > children's birth certificates she is named as Elizabeth Burns, formerly > Thomas. I've got hold of her marriage certificate (23/6/1845) and she is > named, again, as Elizabeth Thomas, spinster, but her father is identified > as Samuel Bayliss. > > The question is, would her real father have been Thomas or Bayliss, and > which would have been the step-father? Does anybody know if there was a > convention in those days for what was written on marriage certificates? > > She was married at St Martin's - would the parish records give more > information? > > I suspect that she was out in service on the 1841 census and so there are > no clues to be found. > > Any help would be welcome. > > Andrew

I recently had the need to see the contents of a bastardy order before the 100 years were up. The folks in Bham Central Reference library were very helpful suggesting that the courts may allow this if the request was made by their researchers - the court it seems do not like just anybody looking at the other records contained in the order book whilst searching for your own. I paid a very small sum to Bham Central Library who conducted the request and search for me and came up with the information I wanted. I now know who my grandfather was. Sadly it was a Charles Brown. Not a very easy name to trace. Anyway the information you get may be better than mine. Regards Peter Barton Lincoln, England. ----- Original Message ---- From: George Haden <georgehaden@mac.com> To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, 29 November, 2006 4:38:59 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] birth certificate information Look in Pickards Pink Pages for a List of bastardly orders On Nov 29, 2006, at 6:51 AM, JANE DYER wrote: > I have a similar problem in that my great grandfather was > illegitemate. Someone suggested looking up the bastardy orders > which I expect are held in Birmingham Central Library. > J > > Ken Poole <kpoole01@rochester.rr.com> wrote: > Thanks Pete, thats what I have except there is no father listed > (illegitimate birth) so it hard to triangulate - father - marriage - > mother, > I must have five likely candidates who could be the mother and > without a > birthdate or something factual to help identify > her it becomes an educated guess, a genealogist nightmare. > Ken > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Hulme" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 2:48 AM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] birth certificate information > > >> Hi Ken, >> The full certificates that I have give the date of birth, the >> address of the birth, name of the baby and the name and maiden >> name of >> the mother. I've never seen one that gave the mother's age, that's on >> marriage certificates. >> >> Cheers, >> Pete >> >> -----Original Message----- >> Hi Listers >> Is it common that mother's on birth certificates from the 1890's are >> only identified by their name >> but not address or birthdate? or do I have a shortened format. >> Otherwise I have a name shared by >> many others at that time. >> Cheers >> Ken >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM- > admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS- > BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM- > admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS- > BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____________________________________________ Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ___________________________________________________________ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

I am wondering if anyone has information on the Royal Lancastrian School that started in Birmingham in the early 1800's. Who were the teachers and what type of education did they have? Where would the records be kept if there are any? Regards, Willy

Hi Andrew, One possibility is that she was an illegitimate child of a mother named Thomas, she (the mother) married a Samuel Bayliss, who brought up the child. I've come across a surprising number of illegitimate children in my line, who retain their mother's maiden name whilst living in her marital household. Pete Hulme -----Original Message----- The question is, would her real father have been Thomas or Bayliss, and which would have been the step-father? Does anybody know if there was a convention in those days for what was written on marriage certificates? subject and the body of the message

Hi List, This may seem like a general query but it's firmly based in Birmingham My gg grandmother's married name was Elizabeth Burns. On each of her children's birth certificates she is named as Elizabeth Burns, formerly Thomas. I've got hold of her marriage certificate (23/6/1845) and she is named, again, as Elizabeth Thomas, spinster, but her father is identified as Samuel Bayliss. The question is, would her real father have been Thomas or Bayliss, and which would have been the step-father? Does anybody know if there was a convention in those days for what was written on marriage certificates? She was married at St Martin's - would the parish records give more information? I suspect that she was out in service on the 1841 census and so there are no clues to be found. Any help would be welcome. Andrew

Hello: Could you kindly send me the website for Pickards Pink Pages as my Aunt LILY BURLTON had a son, JOHN BURLTON, born in Aston, Birmingham, in 1917 and there was no father listed on the birth certificate. Thank you Isobel ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Haden" <georgehaden@mac.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] birth certificate information > Look in Pickards Pink Pages for a List of bastardly orders > > On Nov 29, 2006, at 6:51 AM, JANE DYER wrote: > > > I have a similar problem in that my great grandfather was > > illegitemate. Someone suggested looking up the bastardy orders > > which I expect are held in Birmingham Central Library. > > J > > > > Ken Poole <kpoole01@rochester.rr.com> wrote: > > Thanks Pete, thats what I have except there is no father listed > > (illegitimate birth) so it hard to triangulate - father - marriage - > > mother, > > I must have five likely candidates who could be the mother and > > without a > > birthdate or something factual to help identify > > her it becomes an educated guess, a genealogist nightmare. > > Ken > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pete Hulme" > > > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 2:48 AM > > Subject: Re: [B'ham] birth certificate information > > > > > >> Hi Ken, > >> The full certificates that I have give the date of birth, the > >> address of the birth, name of the baby and the name and maiden > >> name of > >> the mother. I've never seen one that gave the mother's age, that's on > >> marriage certificates. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Pete > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> Hi Listers > >> Is it common that mother's on birth certificates from the 1890's are > >> only identified by their name > >> but not address or birthdate? or do I have a shortened format. > >> Otherwise I have a name shared by > >> many others at that time. > >> Cheers > >> Ken > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _____________________________________________ > >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > >> http://www.bham.de/ > >> > >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> > > > > _____________________________________________ > > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > > http://www.bham.de/ > > > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM- > > admin@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS- > > BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > _____________________________________________ > > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > > http://www.bham.de/ > > > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM- > > admin@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS- > > BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >