Tony, I found on the 1851 the following if it is anything, 16 Duke St Aston, Thomas Pinfield head 37 Heavy Steel Toy Maker from Brum, Rebecca wife 40 from W'Hampton, William son 14 steel toy maker, Edwin Thomas son 2 Ken B ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlene Shipman" <marlene.s@xtra.co.nz> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] William PENNER/PINNER > Hi > I have been informed that Ancestry has a three day free offer at present > - if someone has the info perhaps they could share it and Tony would > have the thrill of finding his family before New Year? > I think you're wise to check the POB Tony as sometimes we discover these > wee anomalies along the way!!! Thomas might be a sibling or cousin of > William's father . The 1851 will certainly be a good guide for you. > Happy New Year > Marlene > > Anthony Hofstee wrote: >> Thanks to Marlene Shipman the family of William Pinner was found in >> the 1861 Birmingham census under the name of Primer. In 1871, 1881, >> 1891 and 1901 William is said to be born in France. However the 1861 >> census says he was born in Birmingham about 1838. His father is >> supposedly Thomas Pinner. Is there a Thomas Pinner to be found in >> the 1841 or 1851 census of Birmingham with a child William born about >> 1838? Thanks. Happy New Year to everyone and thanks for all the >> help. This group has been wonderful. Tony >> >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Happy New Year! and thanks to all of you, who are capitalizing your last names for research. It makes the search and helping you all so much easier! Nancy

Hi I have been informed that Ancestry has a three day free offer at present - if someone has the info perhaps they could share it and Tony would have the thrill of finding his family before New Year? I think you're wise to check the POB Tony as sometimes we discover these wee anomalies along the way!!! Thomas might be a sibling or cousin of William's father . The 1851 will certainly be a good guide for you. Happy New Year Marlene Anthony Hofstee wrote: > Thanks to Marlene Shipman the family of William Pinner was found in > the 1861 Birmingham census under the name of Primer. In 1871, 1881, > 1891 and 1901 William is said to be born in France. However the 1861 > census says he was born in Birmingham about 1838. His father is > supposedly Thomas Pinner. Is there a Thomas Pinner to be found in > the 1841 or 1851 census of Birmingham with a child William born about > 1838? Thanks. Happy New Year to everyone and thanks for all the > help. This group has been wonderful. Tony > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Brian I have a Jane FLETCHER birth reg. Sept Qtr 1867 Parents possibly William Edward Fletcher & Ann Evans who I think married in Aston in 1863? Jane's siblings included William E, Hannah, George Alfred as far as I can tell. I have not explored further back as I am still reeling from what I discovered! Cheers Marlene beapps@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: >> I am looking for help in finding the siblings of Elizabeth SHAKESPEARE >> born 12 December 1778. Her parents were James SHAKESPEARE looking for >> siblings too., and Charlotte FLETCHER bn Approximately 24 May 1765. Does >> Charlotte have any siblings? Is anyone else researching the SHAKESPEARE >> or FLETCHER Families of Birmingham? >> >> I have a joseph shakespeare married emma george in birmingham dates >> > unknown > brian > > > >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Oh Guess what! There is a marriage on Familysearch which fits the bill: THOMAS PINNER   Male   Marriages:   Spouse:  BETHIA BUCKLOW Marriage:  05 MAR 1830   Edgbaston, Warwick, England Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date. Source Information: Batch No.:  Dates:  Source Call No.:  Type:  Printout Call No.:  Type:  M010661  1636 - 1812  1426213 IT 1-2  Film  0883947   Film  M010661  1813 - 1816  0502272   Film  NONE    M010661  1816 - 1834  0502273   Film  NONE    M010661  1834 - 1837  0502274   Film  NONE  On 29 Dec 2006, at 18:34, Anthony Hofstee wrote: > Thanks to Marlene Shipman the family of William Pinner was found in > the 1861 Birmingham census under the name of Primer. In 1871, 1881, > 1891 and 1901 William is said to be born in France. However the 1861 > census says he was born in Birmingham about 1838. His father is > supposedly Thomas Pinner. Is there a Thomas Pinner to be found in > the 1841 or 1851 census of Birmingham with a child William born about > 1838? Thanks. Happy New Year to everyone and thanks for all the > help. This group has been wonderful. Tony > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

And could this be his mother's death Surname  First name(s)  Age  District  Vol  Page  Deaths Dec 1853   () Pinner  Bithia    Birmingham  6d 10 Anne On 29 Dec 2006, at 18:34, Anthony Hofstee wrote: > Thanks to Marlene Shipman the family of William Pinner was found in > the 1861 Birmingham census under the name of Primer. In 1871, 1881, > 1891 and 1901 William is said to be born in France. However the 1861 > census says he was born in Birmingham about 1838. His father is > supposedly Thomas Pinner. Is there a Thomas Pinner to be found in > the 1841 or 1851 census of Birmingham with a child William born about > 1838? Thanks. Happy New Year to everyone and thanks for all the > help. This group has been wonderful. Tony >

Wendy, Are you researching DEELEY? George Deeley born 1856 you say I done a check and found it is George Henry Deely born 1849 Bap 1858 at St George to Abel Smith DEELEY and Mary. If this who it is I have traced the family back to 1767 with children if you are interested? Ken B ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendy Partridge" <wendy.partridge@ntlworld.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Deeley > Hello Ken > > I have a George DEELEY born 1856 Birmingham he married Harriet JENNINGS > they are living with her father David JENNINGS in 1881. > > Regards > Wendy Partridge > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kenneth William Bibb" <kbibb@bigpond.com> > To: "ENG-WARKS" <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 9:15 AM > Subject: [B'ham] Deeley > > >> Hi List, >> I am interested in the DEELEY family in Brum I have Hannah born abt 1836 >> married to Henry BIBB 1857. >> Is anyone tracing the family of DEELEY? >> >> Ken B >> >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This could be Emma's birth in Sep 1843 - which would give you her mother's maiden name. Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Births Sep 1843 (>99%) Pinner Emma Birmingham 16 29[2_] Looking at both the Free BMD image and Ancestry I think the number is 294 - but you could say if you apply for the birth certificate that the number is indistinct and could be 292 or 294 HTH Anne On 29 Dec 2006, at 18:34, Anthony Hofstee wrote: > Thanks to Marlene Shipman the family of William Pinner was found in > the 1861 Birmingham census under the name of Primer. In 1871, 1881, > 1891 and 1901 William is said to be born in France. However the 1861 > census says he was born in Birmingham about 1838. His father is > supposedly Thomas Pinner. Is there a Thomas Pinner to be found in > the 1841 or 1851 census of Birmingham with a child William born about > 1838? Thanks. Happy New Year to everyone and thanks for all the > help. This group has been wonderful. Tony >

Think this might well be them in 1841! As you know, ages were rounded down to nearest 5, and no relationships given But neither Thomas senior nor Bithea ( Bethina? ) were born in Warwickshire, which fits with 1851nor Ann Bucklew - who could be Bethina's mother? Name Estimated birth year Birthplace Civil parish County/Island Ann Bucklew abt 1775 Birmingham Warwickshire Ann Penna abt 1837 Warwickshire, England Birmingham Warwickshire Bithea Penna abt 1806 Birmingham Warwickshire Thomas Penna abt 1811 Birmingham Warwickshire Thomas Penna abt 1831 Warwickshire, England Birmingham Warwickshire William Penna abt 1836 Warwickshire, England Birmingham Warwickshire Civil parish: Birmingham Hundred: Birmingham County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street address: Lichfield Street Occupation: Tailor. Source information: HO107/1143/2 Registration district: Birmingham Sub-registration district: St Mary ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Folio: 14 Page: 21 Line number: 21 Happy New Year Anne On 29 Dec 2006, at 18:34, Anthony Hofstee wrote: > the family of William Pinner was found in > the 1861 Birmingham census under the name of Primer. In 1871, 1881, > 1891 and 1901 William is said to be born in France. However the 1861 > census says he was born in Birmingham about 1838. His father is > supposedly Thomas Pinner. Is there a Thomas Pinner to be found in > the 1841 or 1851 census of Birmingham with a child William born about > 1838? Thanks. Happy New Year to everyone and thanks for all the > help. This group has been wonderful. Tony

This is the nearest that shows up in 1841 - there is a son, born 1839 but he is Joseph not William Name Estimated birth year Birthplace Civil parish County/Island View Image Joseph Penner abt 1839 Warwickshire, England Preston Baggott Warwickshire Mary Penner abt 1836 Warwickshire, England Preston Baggott Warwickshire Sarah Penner abt 1816 Warwickshire, England Preston Baggott Warwickshire Thos Penner abt 1811 Warwickshire, England Preston Baggott Warwickshire Civil parish: Preston Baggott Hundred: Barlichway (Henley Division) County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street address: Preston Hill Occupation: Ag Lab Source information: HO107/1124/17 Registration district: Stratford on Avon Sub-registration district: Wootton Wawen ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Folio: 8 Page: 9 Line number: 25 In 1851 we have: Name: Thos Pinner Age: 43 Estimated birth year: abt 1808 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Bethina Gender: Male Where born: Bridgnorth, Shropshire, England Civil parish: Birmingham Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street address: 52 Lichfield St. Occupation: Thomas senior and junior - tailor and William is a GUN MAKER! Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2057; Folio: 59; Page: 36 Registration district: Birmingham Sub-registration district: St Mary ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Household schedule number: 120 Household Members: Name Age Ann Pinner 12 Bethina Pinner 44 Emma Pinner 7 Thos Pinner 43 Thos Pinner 20 Thos Pinner 5 Wm Pinner 15 Name Parent or spouse names Birth Year Birthplace Relation Civil parish County/Island Ann Pinner Thos, Bethina abt 1839 Birmm, Warwickshire, England Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire Bethina Pinner Thos abt 1807 Lichfield, Staffordshire, England Wife Birmingham Warwickshire Emma Pinner Thos, Bethina abt 1844 Birmm, Warwickshire, England Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire Thos Pinner Bethina abt 1808 Bridgnorth, Shropshire, England Head Birmingham Warwickshire Thos Pinner Thos, Bethina abt 1831 Birmm, Warwickshire, England Son Birmingham Warwickshire Thos Pinner Thos, Bethina abt 1846 Birmm, Warwickshire, England Son Birmingham Warwickshire Wm Pinner Thos, Bethina abt 1836 Birmm, Warwickshire, England Son Birmingham Warwickshire Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2057; Folio: 59; Page: 36 On 29 Dec 2006, at 18:34, Anthony Hofstee wrote: > Thanks to Marlene Shipman the family of William Pinner was found in > the 1861 Birmingham census under the name of Primer. In 1871, 1881, > 1891 and 1901 William is said to be born in France. However the 1861 > census says he was born in Birmingham about 1838. His father is > supposedly Thomas Pinner. Is there a Thomas Pinner to be found in > the 1841 or 1851 census of Birmingham with a child William born about > 1838? Thanks. Happy New Year to everyone and thanks for all the > help. This group has been wonderful. Tony > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi I have just read your email from last week referring to the Brewers. My Gt Gt Gt Grandfather married a Maria Brewer on 25 October 1840 There were BUTLERS in Lennox Street in late 1940s early 50s. They had a haberdashery shop. Happy New Year to you. Shirley shirley swinnerton >From: J KING <jillybrenin@btinternet.com> >Reply-To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com >To: eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [B'ham] BUTLERs in aston Re: john Y >Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 12:29:03 +0000 (GMT) > >Hi Gary > I have Butlers in Birmingham - but only those linked to the Brewers. My >info is incomplete but havent come across the one you mention. > Happy to keep you in mind if something emerges > Merry Christmas > Jilly > Cold ( yes finally Winter) West Wales > >J hodge <jhdl10848@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > Hi List > >I am Going through all old paper email printouts , one of these is for >BUTLERS , I have a William BUTLER A cordwainer (shoemaker) , And A child >of his sarah ann BUTLER married Thomas SNEAD , I am well up on sneads >,but very little on BUTLERs, is anyone researching these people in >birmingham. > >gary hodge > > > >_____________________________________________ >Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >http://www.bham.de/ > >Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >_____________________________________________ >Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >http://www.bham.de/ > >Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Find Singles In Your Area This Christmas With Match.com! msnuk.match.com

Hello Listers: I have encountered a road block in my research for the family of Sarah Newton. What I know about her is as follows: On 10th July 1837 Sarah Newton married Thomas Messinger at St. Peter & St. Paul in the Parish of Aston. She was of full age, a spinster, no occupation and of the Parish of Aston. Her father was Joshua Newton, a Boatman. Witnesses George and Eliza Davies. In the 1841 census for Birmingham, on Lancaster Street, the family was listed as follows: Thomas Messenger,20, iron caster Sarah Messenger, 25 James Messenger, 3 Thomas Messenger ,2 All were born in Warwickshire Sometime between 1841 and 1844 Sarah apparently died. Thomas married Ann Prescott on May 27, 1844 at Aston Juxta, Birmingham. Witnesses George Davis and Eliza Davis. (The witnesses were the same at both marriages. They also lived on Lancaster Street in Birmingham in 1841.) The 1851 census lists the family now in Derby End (Dudley) as follows: Thomas Messenger, 31, iron caster Ann Messenger, 31 James Messenger, son, 13, born Birmingham Thomas Messenger, son , 11, born Birmingham Matthew Messenger, son, 6, born Birmingham John Messenger, son, 1, born Dudley, Worcestershire My problem is I can't locate Sarah Newton's father in any census. I don't know the name of her mother. There is a Sarah Newton born 30 January, 1814, St. John, Deritend & Bordesley, Warwick, England. Father John Newton, mother Ann. I don't know if this is her or not. Is Joshua and John possibly the same man? Thank you for any information you can provide. Gerry Edwards Canada

Sorry Anne (Peat), I should have given you the credit for finding the Pinner information from the 1861 census. Please forgive me and have a great New Year. Tony

Helen, I got that entry too in 1851 I also have her mothers entry in 1851 but as a widow. Thanks Ken B ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Verrall" <hverrall@ihug.co.nz> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Deeley > Ken > > I have an Ann DEELEY born 1800 Halesowen /WOR - married 1820 Thomas > BEARDMORE born Birmingham 1797 ,at Aston Juxta Birmingham, and lived in > Birmingham. > > I don't have details of Ann's Parents and siblings but Halesowen P R's are > available in many locations online. > > I did locate this entry in the 1851 Census. Unfortunately Hannah is not > with her parents !! > > Head: RAMSBOTTOM, William Neighbours 237315 > Name Relationship Mar Age Sex Occupation Birthplace > William RAMSBOTTOM Head M 76 M Brass Maker > Birmm-WAR > Hannah RAMSBOTTOM Wife M 73 F --- > Westbromwich-STF > Hannah DEELEY Serv U 14 F All Work Birmm-WAR > Address: 10 Brass House Yard, Birmingham - Lady Wood > Census Place: Birmingham Birmingham - Lady Wood, Warwickshire > PRO Reference: HO/107/2051 Folio: 44 Page: 33 FHL > Film: 0087306 > > hth > Helen > New Zealand > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-warks-birmingham-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth > William Bibb > Sent: Thursday, 28 December 2006 10:16 p.m. > To: ENG-WARKS > Subject: [B'ham] Deeley > > Hi List, > I am interested in the DEELEY family in Brum I have Hannah born abt 1836 > married to Henry BIBB 1857. > Is anyone tracing the family of DEELEY? > > Ken B > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

> I am looking for help in finding the siblings of Elizabeth SHAKESPEARE > born 12 December 1778. Her parents were James SHAKESPEARE looking for > siblings too., and Charlotte FLETCHER bn Approximately 24 May 1765. Does > Charlotte have any siblings? Is anyone else researching the SHAKESPEARE > or FLETCHER Families of Birmingham? > > I have a joseph shakespeare married emma george in birmingham dates unknown brian > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi David, I'd love to see your notes, please. My Joseph Spencer was born in 1800 in Birmingham. I have some very old photographs of the Spencer ancestors and would be happy to send them to you. Anticipating your reply to neil.hearn3@bigpond.com Jan Tuan Qld ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lane" <dlane@eftel.com.au> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Joseph Spencer > Jan I have a swag of Spencers and Onions in my tree. Not Joseph 1880 > however > If you would like a look at my notes let me know. > David in Australia > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Anthony, hello, Just a thought - in the same household in 1871 is a Joseph TURNER, aged 44. Could he be a brother of George Goodfellow TURNER and father of Lizzie TURNER. There is a Lizzie Mary TURNER ON Free BMD, birth registered March 1/4 1872 and four Joseph TURNER, births registered between September 1/4 1846 and December 1/4 1848. Just a thought, Helen in chilly France --- CL1016V@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Listers > > MERRY XMAS!! > > I have hit a problem with my Birmingham ancestry. > > I am related to the TURNER clan from Birmingham - > Richard TURNER b.1809 (m) Emma GOODFELLOW b.1810, > they produced George > Goodfellow TURNER b.1843 (m) Cecilia Ann MARTIN > b.1845. > >From the marriage of George & Cecilia came Florence > Bertha (b.1879), > Matilda/Tilly (b.1885), Emma/Emily/Pem (b.1872), > George Goodfellow (b.1876) and > Amelia/Minnie (b.1870). > > My problem is that after George TURNER's death (when > Cecilia was a widow) in > the 1891 census there is a Lizzie TURNER (b.1871) as > Cecilia's STEPDAUGHTER. > > Can anybody shed any light on her? > > Are there any listers who are related to these > TURNERS? > > I wish everyone a very merry Xmas, and good luck > with all your searches. > > Thanks in anticipation > Anthony > (from TURNER, GOODFELLOW and HOLYOAK stock!) > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Thanks to Marlene Shipman the family of William Pinner was found in the 1861 Birmingham census under the name of Primer. In 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901 William is said to be born in France. However the 1861 census says he was born in Birmingham about 1838. His father is supposedly Thomas Pinner. Is there a Thomas Pinner to be found in the 1841 or 1851 census of Birmingham with a child William born about 1838? Thanks. Happy New Year to everyone and thanks for all the help. This group has been wonderful. Tony

Thanks for all the help on Frances Barnes. I believe this to be the correct Francis Barnes, father of Eliza Barnes the first wife of William Penner. In 1871 (St. Peter, District 9, Birmingham), Elizabeth a widow, 60 years of age is listed as mother-in-law, living with Wm Penner. Also listed is a Francis, age 26, idiot from Birmingham. In the 1861 census of St. Peter, Birmingham Francis J. Barnes, married with an Elizabeth, has a son Francis J., age 16, and listed as being deaf and dumb from birth. I have found on the IGI a marriage for a Francis Barnes and an Elizabeth Huball (Hubball) on 18 October 1830 in Aston-juxta-Birmingham. This Elizabeth must have been born about 1811 or 1812 in Birmingham, possibly daughter of Joseph and Mary Hubball. I would be glad to hear from anyone having information on these families. Thanks. Tony

Jan I have a swag of Spencers and Onions in my tree. Not Joseph 1880 however If you would like a look at my notes let me know. David in Australia