I would think it would be a boy who worked with a carter, or haulier. Probably looked after the horse, at did general dogsbodying. Equivalent today would be a driver's mate. Regards John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Edwards" <jedwac342@rogers.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:50 PM Subject: [B'ham] Occupations- Carters boy and ammunition maker > Hello Lidsters: > > Can anyone tell me what a carters boy would be. > Also I have a great grandmother who worked as an ammunition maker in the > Aston area. She lived at 8 Ct.Tower Road. > Was there a particular large plant in that area in 1891? Or did the > ammunition industry involve a lot of small plants? > > Gerry Edwards > Canada > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Abel Bunting, 22 is living with his father, Joseph and mother, Mary at 10 Court Aston Road, Hamlet of Duddeston. Joseph. is a Scale Beam Maker Abel is a Gun Percussioner (?) Ref HO 107 2061. In 1841 they also live on Aston Rd. Joseph 50 Scale Beam Maker Mary 51 Joseph 19 Machinist John 16 Gun finisher Isaac 14 Abel 11 Reg ----- Original Message ----- From: "julie insull" <jinsull789@yahoo.co.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham-d@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:41 PM Subject: [B'ham] 1851 lookup please hi list can someone have a look for a ABEL BUNTING aged abt 18 ,born birmingham please would be most grateful julie --------------------------------- All New Yahoo! Mail - Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. _____________________________________________ Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Roger, Would you be able to look for 3 FELLOWS for me please? They are all on the 1901 Census as working at Cadbury's. They are Ada (bn 1875), Norah (1885) and Alfred (1888). They were living in Charlotte Rd, Stirchley at the time. Many thanks, Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Goodger" <roger.goodger@tiscali.co.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Cocoa / Chocolate Packer - SELLY OAK - Healey Road > Hi Jane > > I have the Cadbury Bournville Chocolate works magazine annuals for > November > 1902-3, 1905-6, 1907-8, 1908-9, 1909-10. I will have a look for your > Ruth Moss and sister Annie but can you confirm that MOSS was their maiden > name and what their ages were in 1901 please > > Roger > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

hi list can someone have a look for a ABEL BUNTING aged abt 18 ,born birmingham please would be most grateful julie --------------------------------- All New Yahoo! Mail – Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you.

Hi Julie: There is a family on the 1841 census - father Joseph Bunting - a scale beam maker and his wife Mary. One of their children is an Abel Bunting age 11. Is this the correct family? They are located on Aston Road. Gerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "julie insull" <jinsull789@yahoo.co.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham-d@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:41 PM Subject: [B'ham] 1851 lookup please hi list can someone have a look for a ABEL BUNTING aged abt 18 ,born birmingham please would be most grateful julie --------------------------------- All New Yahoo! Mail - Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. _____________________________________________ Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Lidsters: Can anyone tell me what a carters boy would be. Also I have a great grandmother who worked as an ammunition maker in the Aston area. She lived at 8 Ct.Tower Road. Was there a particular large plant in that area in 1891? Or did the ammunition industry involve a lot of small plants? Gerry Edwards Canada

Hi Doug, Thanks so much! Do you know when, where and to whom Robert or Jane were married? Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Hawkes" <dhawkes@ee.ryerson.ca> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:14 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Spencer > Hi Jan, > > Robert James Spencer, ch 20 MAR 1781 Aston Juxta Birmingham, married my > gggGrandparents in 1810 in Aston Juxta. > > Notes: Minister Robert James Spencer was ch 20 MAR 1781 Aston Juxta > Birmingham, Warwick, England. Parents Benjamin Spencer and Felicia Hicks, > Marriage: 03 APR 1780 Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England. > Benjamin took part in the Priestley Riots of 1791. > Dr Benjamin Spencer, died 1823, vicar of Aston, magistrate. Thomas Hawkes: > Moseley Wake Green: victim. > >>From 'Alumni Oxienienses' ( CD 0526 Archive CD Books ) > > SPENCER Benjamin , son of Benjamin of Halesowen, Salop *,gent. MAGDALEN > HALL, matric 24 Jan. 1763 , aged 19yrs B.A. 1766, M.A. 1769. D.C.L. 1774. > Vicar of Aston, Warks Rector of Hatton Lincs, 1780 until his death in > 2nd Sept 1823; Father of Robert James, [also Benjamin and Jane] > > SPENCER Robert James son of Benjamin of Aston, Cleric, Doctor of Law, > WADHAM College, Matric 20 Nov 1798 aged 17yrs B.A. 1802 M.A. 1808 Fellow > until 1814. Perpetual Curate Smethwick Staffs. Died in 1814 > > * Halesowen was part of SAL until 1846, then part of WOR , until 1909 > D C L - Doctor of Civil Law > -- > Doug Hawkes > e-mail: dhawkes@ee.ryerson.ca > >> Hello, >> I'm seeking descendants of Benjamin and Betty Spencer, married >> around 1799. Would also be interested for information on Ben's >> siblings.....Robert and Jane. All three were baptised in Aston >> Juxta Birmingham in 1781, 1782 and 1783. >> >> Jan >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

He is listed as Alice Bunting on Ancestry!.....but it is Abel...parents Joesph and Mary, all living in Aston. Have sent you the image off list. Do you need the 1841? Regards Pam Bridenbecker julie insull wrote: >hi list > can someone have a look for a ABEL BUNTING aged abt 18 ,born birmingham please > would be most grateful > julie > > >--------------------------------- > All New Yahoo! Mail – Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. >_____________________________________________ >Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >http://www.bham.de/ > >Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

G"day 1861 census report. The Warwickshire Team are working hard to put the census records online for FREE check out our progress on http://www.hunimex.com/warwick/freecens/1861/index_1861.html We have approx 54 pieces out of 116 online at the moment- most are UNCHECKED A further 8 pieces are completely transcribed and I have to work on them before they are uploaded later this year. If you are an 1861 volunteer please send me a status report if you have not done so in the last month . I need to hear from most of the Team who are working on Birmingham and Aston pieces asap please. Some of you have been out of touch for months- flogging imminent <grin> Note------ we are lagging behind the Rural area which is nearly completed. If you cannot complete or continue working on your allocated piece - please TELL ME NOW so I can re-allocate. Thank you Wendy Boland Co-ordinator Warwickshire 1861 census and FreeREG Transcription Teams

Kenneth, hello Have come in half-way on your search, so I don't know what you have and have not, but is this any good: Mary Julia HARRIS, death registered September 1/4 1881, at Kings Norton, 6c 217; she was aged 34. A Mary HARRIS is on the 1881 census with a Charles HARRIS with Alice, Charles, Francis and Mary. By the 1891 census Charles HARRIS is a widower but still with Alice, Charles, Francis and Mary. Regards, Helen in drizzly France --- OnLaneside@aol.com wrote: > Hi Anne, > > I thought would look at the marriage under reference > you gave just in case, > there was a link to help with my enquiry. > > My application for the 1874 marriage certificate > based on the FREE BMD > listings for Charles HARRIS - Sarah Ann PRITCHETT > was unsuccessful. > > Kenneth. > > This is the Registrar's reply: > > "Thank you for your application for a marriage > certificate in respect of > Charles HARRIS and Sarah Ann PRITCHETT, March > Quarter 1874. > > I have traced the entry to which you refer, but > regret from the information > given by you this does not appear to be the entry > you require; as although > they married on the same day, at the same place, > they did not marry each > other. > > There can be up to five marriage entries on > each page of the General > Register Office Index.". > ====================================================== > > Hi Kenneth. > Elusive marriage? No problem. > >From Free BMD > Surname > First name(s) > District > Vol > Page > Marriages Mar 1874 (>99%) > Belfield > Mary Ann > Birmingham > 6d7 > CAPEWELL > Samuel David > Birmingham > 6d7 > Harris Charles > Birmingham > 6d7 > Pritchett Sarah Ann > Birmingham > 6d7 > Do you have census details for this family? > HTH > Anne > ========================================= > > > > I am researching a HARRIS family in Harborne, > Birmingham. I would be > > delighted to know if anyone knows of any > connections. Also, > > suggestions to obtaining > > the elusive marriage certificate from .circa > 1875 > > > > Charles Harris b 1847 Harborne (believed married > Mary Julia Pritchett > > b 1847 > > but despite extensive searches I have been unable > find the marriage > > details). > > Three children Charles b 1875, Mary Eliz b 1879 > and.......... > > > > Francis Henry Harris born 1876 Harborne married > 1899 to Jane Maria > > Fisher. > > Five children - Francis b 1901, Olive, Florence, > Gladys and Mary > > Elizabeth b > > 1914 West Bromwich. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Kenneth > > > > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message > ___________________________________________________________ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Hi Graham Kia Ora Graham AAH! UH! It's amazing what our olds got up to and what yarns were later spun! In Laura's case there may have been another marriage which resulted in her having a different surname, perhaps she had married and was recorded wrongly as single or maybe she was related to the other side of the family. I have 8 year old stepsons referred to as sons in law! Lateral thinking is required! At the risk of being boring I always advise researching ALL of the family. That is: your parents + siblings, your grandparents + their siblings, your greatgrandparents + their siblings etc as you go backwards. it's amazing what you find! Names, addresses, occupations often follow a pattern. Watch out for witnesses at weddings, informants at deaths etc. I have a death in 1874 with a name I didn't recognise. Looking up the 1871 and 1881 censuses I found the informant was a nurse and a next door neighbour who was present at the death. As 2x greatgran was a widow it was somehow comforting to know that someone she knew was taking care of her at the end! Every wee gem builds up the picture! I'm now going "forward' from when greatgrandparents left in 1878 and am in the throes of the London Blitz at present! Because of security at the time locations were kept secret so the enemy didn't know whether they had been successful. Picking up clues the hard way ploughing through Patient Records!!!. Best of British with your continuing search! This list is great, so yell out if you're stuck! Marlene in New Zealand Graham Stanley wrote: > Dear Marlene > Thanks for your suggestion. I was desperate. > The birth certificate arrived today: the mother's name is given as ALLEN not > BOWEN. > So I was barking up the wrong tree all this time. I don't know how Laura > fits into this but buoyed by my success with the birth certificate, I have > sent off for the marriage certificate between William JARVIS and Lizzie > ALLEN to see what that can tell me. > Thanks for the suggestion: sometimes the obvious course of action gets > overlooked. > Best wishes > Graham > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marlene Shipman" <marlene.s@xtra.co.nz> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 12:09 PM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] Elizabeth and Laura BOWEN > > > >> Hi Graham >> I presume you have your gt grandmother's birth date from family history? >> Her birth cert will give her mother's name if you're desperate! >> William Charles Jarvis birth is registered as Dec 1855 6b/495 at Walsall. >> Laura Bowen appears as an "inmate" of the Walton Rd Major Lester's Girls >> Home - a scholar - in 1881. She was born in B'ham. according to the >> census. There is a birth in Coventry June 1867. I wonder if that >> indicates her mother might have remarried after Elizabeth's birth and >> before Laura's? >> More interesting, I think, might be to follow the Laura BOWN shown on >> the 1881 aged 12. She is shown with a mother Harriet and various >> siblings. I'd love a look at the original census for this entry as the >> 3 Boarders are shown as JEVONS. Might that be a corruption of Jarvis? >> A Look up for the 1871 census for Laura Bowen or Bown born +/-1867 B'ham >> should be useful as Elizabeth might be shown with the family. You would >> soon tell if there has been a remarriage! >> Sometimes you just have to go all around the problem to get the answers! >> Sorry I don't have the census info! >> Marlene >> >> >> Graham Stanley wrote: >> >>> I am searching for details of my gt grandmother's family who I think were >>> called BOWEN. >>> Her name was Elizabeth and she "married" William Charles Jarvis sometime >>> before ( I hope) the birth of my granny in Aston on 17 May 1879. I can't >>> find their marriage certificate on FreeBMD and I suppose it is possible >>> that they never married officially. >>> The family are living at 55 Staniforth St, Aston, B'ham in 1881 and >>> Elizabeth gives her birthplace as B'ham and from her age would have been >>> born around 1860/1861. By 1891 they have moved to Walsall (her husband's >>> birthplace) and have been joined by her unmarried sister, Laura BOWEN, >>> also born in B'ham, around 1869/1870. Laura's presence is my only clue as >>> to Elizabeth's maiden name. >>> Unfortunately, I have not been able to trace either of the girls in the >>> earlier census returns or to find a birth certificate for them on >>> FreeBMD. I did find an Elizabeth Bowers in the 1861 census but from >>> FreeBMD there was an Elizabeth Bowers born in 1860, so this information >>> on the census is probably not a transcription error. >>> I appreciate that BOWEN is a fairly common name in B'ham but wondered if >>> anyone can help me find the family of Elizabeth and Laura? >>> Best wishes >>> Graham >>> Twickenham >>> _____________________________________________ >>> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >>> http://www.bham.de/ >>> >>> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Anthony Do you have any further information re: Joseph CLARKE ( b: 1815 Edgbaston) ie: source of your info? place of marriage ect.? or does anyone know what Parish Edgbaston may be in? I have a large file on CLARKE family, Happy hunting, George On Jan 19, 2007, at 2:49 AM, CL1016V@aol.com wrote: > Morning Listers! > > I wonder if anyone has any of the following families in their > ancestry. > All were born in Birmingham/Warks. > > William GOODFELLOW (b.1781) who married Ann HUTCHINSON (b.1782) - > their > offspring (christened at St Philips, B'ham) were John (b.1802), > James (b.1804), > Matilda (b.1807), Emma (b.1809), William (b.1812), Amelia (b.1812), > Jemima > (b.1814), Thomas Hutchinson (b.1818) and William Hutchinson (b.1820). > >> From the above family the following lines were started/continued: > CLARKE (Joseph, b.1815 Edgbaston) - he married Amelia GOODFELLOW > TURNER (Richard, b.1809) - he married Emma GOODFELLOW (she was > later called > Emma LEYLE in the 1861 census. > > Any help would be appreciated, I would like to try and sort out my > ancestry! > > Best rgds > Anthony > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM- > admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS- > BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Morning Listers! I wonder if anyone has any of the following families in their ancestry. All were born in Birmingham/Warks. William GOODFELLOW (b.1781) who married Ann HUTCHINSON (b.1782) - their offspring (christened at St Philips, B'ham) were John (b.1802), James (b.1804), Matilda (b.1807), Emma (b.1809), William (b.1812), Amelia (b.1812), Jemima (b.1814), Thomas Hutchinson (b.1818) and William Hutchinson (b.1820). >From the above family the following lines were started/continued: CLARKE (Joseph, b.1815 Edgbaston) - he married Amelia GOODFELLOW TURNER (Richard, b.1809) - he married Emma GOODFELLOW (she was later called Emma LEYLE in the 1861 census. Any help would be appreciated, I would like to try and sort out my ancestry! Best rgds Anthony

Dear Patricia, MaryAnn Gromore is the gt gt gran of Gordon Butlin, born 1940 in Hackney. He has very little information about her, he says. I could give him your email address if you'd like. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Adams" <granduba@msn.com> To: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:56 PM Subject: [B'ham] ADAMS, Herbert c1850 > Hi - it has been a while since I last posted to this list, and I am still > banging my head on a large brick wall! > > My husbands great-grandfather was Herbert ADAMS, bc 1850/51 in Aston > Magna, > then located in Gloucestershire. He was the son of James ADAMS of > Stretton-on Fosse, which I believe was then in Worcestershire. > > My problem is that after a few years of trying, I still have not found > Herbert's birth registration, and so am unable to find out who his mother > was. I have his marriage certificate to Annie Teear in 1880 and his death > certificate from 1901. On the 1861 census, RG 9/2152/80/13 - 62 Church > St, > Birmingham, St. Martin, he is recorded as 9 years old - 5 years older than > his sister Elizabeth. I also have the marriage certificate for his > father, > James Adams (Police Officer on that cert.) and Mary Ann GROMORE - Father > of > Mary Ann is Nathan GROMORE, Pawnbroker, and father of James, is James. > Mary Ann's address at the time of marriage was given as Vyse Street, > which > according to today's maps is close to the Jewelry Quarter. However, the > marriage was in Dec of 1855, St. John's, Birmingham, a few years after > Herbert was born. > > Another confusing point is that on the birth certificate of Herbert's > younger brother James William ADAMS, who was born in 1859, the mother's > name > is spelled as Mary Ann GROUMAN, but I just cannot seem to locate anyone by > either of those names - GROMORE or GROUMAN. > > Another puzzle; on the 1861 census, Mary Ann's birthplace was recorded as > Chippenham, Wiltshire, and her age as 28. On the 1871 census, (James was > now a Cab Proprietor) Mary was recorded as 36 and with a birth place of > Eaton-upon-Tern, Salop. So can I assume that there were two Mary's? Was > James previously married, even though his status at the time of his > marriage > to Mary Ann was listed as "Bachelor", or was Herbert born out of wedlock? > James had another wife at the time of the 1881 census - he married Esther > Pumphrey, widow, in 1876. > > I have ordered a number of certificates over the last while, but have > still > remained unsuccessful in my search. I would be so very grateful for any > suggestions on what I might try next! > > Very many thanks for 'listening' to my long and confusing story! > > Patricia > Ontario, Canada > > _________________________________________________________________ > Buy what you want when you want it on Sympatico / MSN Shopping > http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=2,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081805 > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

G'day again Patricia, Have had a little look around. There are lots of Gromans, a few Graumans but, as you say, only one Gromore, to be found. There is a Gordon on the Genes Reunited site to whom I've sent a message. I'll contact you if he replies. His tree contains MaryAnn Gromore, born 1831 in Eaton Upon Tern, Tewkesbury. Cheers!!! Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Adams" <granduba@msn.com> To: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:56 PM Subject: [B'ham] ADAMS, Herbert c1850 > Hi - it has been a while since I last posted to this list, and I am still > banging my head on a large brick wall! > > My husbands great-grandfather was Herbert ADAMS, bc 1850/51 in Aston > Magna, > then located in Gloucestershire. He was the son of James ADAMS of > Stretton-on Fosse, which I believe was then in Worcestershire. > > My problem is that after a few years of trying, I still have not found > Herbert's birth registration, and so am unable to find out who his mother > was. I have his marriage certificate to Annie Teear in 1880 and his death > certificate from 1901. On the 1861 census, RG 9/2152/80/13 - 62 Church > St, > Birmingham, St. Martin, he is recorded as 9 years old - 5 years older than > his sister Elizabeth. I also have the marriage certificate for his > father, > James Adams (Police Officer on that cert.) and Mary Ann GROMORE - Father > of > Mary Ann is Nathan GROMORE, Pawnbroker, and father of James, is James. > Mary Ann's address at the time of marriage was given as Vyse Street, > which > according to today's maps is close to the Jewelry Quarter. However, the > marriage was in Dec of 1855, St. John's, Birmingham, a few years after > Herbert was born. > > Another confusing point is that on the birth certificate of Herbert's > younger brother James William ADAMS, who was born in 1859, the mother's > name > is spelled as Mary Ann GROUMAN, but I just cannot seem to locate anyone by > either of those names - GROMORE or GROUMAN. > > Another puzzle; on the 1861 census, Mary Ann's birthplace was recorded as > Chippenham, Wiltshire, and her age as 28. On the 1871 census, (James was > now a Cab Proprietor) Mary was recorded as 36 and with a birth place of > Eaton-upon-Tern, Salop. So can I assume that there were two Mary's? Was > James previously married, even though his status at the time of his > marriage > to Mary Ann was listed as "Bachelor", or was Herbert born out of wedlock? > James had another wife at the time of the 1881 census - he married Esther > Pumphrey, widow, in 1876. > > I have ordered a number of certificates over the last while, but have > still > remained unsuccessful in my search. I would be so very grateful for any > suggestions on what I might try next! > > Very many thanks for 'listening' to my long and confusing story! > > Patricia > Ontario, Canada > > _________________________________________________________________ > Buy what you want when you want it on Sympatico / MSN Shopping > http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=2,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081805 > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

My G Grandfather William McDonald LIVINGSTONE gave his occupation as Lawyer on his marriage certificate in Jan 1879. Family stories have it that he was an Articled Clerk for his uncle/brother Christopher LIVINGSTONE. Could anyone advise me if there are Trade Directories or lists of Apprentices available where I might find either William or Christopher and where these directories might be found. thank you Chris in Oz

Dear Patricia, I can sympathise completely. We must accept that our ancestors told a lot of fibs. Have you found Mary Ann Adams death certificate? Sometime, when you least expect it, a gem will come your way and it'll be so clear.. I'll try to have a look for you tonight. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Adams" <granduba@msn.com> To: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:56 PM Subject: [B'ham] ADAMS, Herbert c1850 > Hi - it has been a while since I last posted to this list, and I am still > banging my head on a large brick wall! > > My husbands great-grandfather was Herbert ADAMS, bc 1850/51 in Aston > Magna, > then located in Gloucestershire. He was the son of James ADAMS of > Stretton-on Fosse, which I believe was then in Worcestershire. > > My problem is that after a few years of trying, I still have not found > Herbert's birth registration, and so am unable to find out who his mother > was. I have his marriage certificate to Annie Teear in 1880 and his death > certificate from 1901. On the 1861 census, RG 9/2152/80/13 - 62 Church > St, > Birmingham, St. Martin, he is recorded as 9 years old - 5 years older than > his sister Elizabeth. I also have the marriage certificate for his > father, > James Adams (Police Officer on that cert.) and Mary Ann GROMORE - Father > of > Mary Ann is Nathan GROMORE, Pawnbroker, and father of James, is James. > Mary Ann's address at the time of marriage was given as Vyse Street, > which > according to today's maps is close to the Jewelry Quarter. However, the > marriage was in Dec of 1855, St. John's, Birmingham, a few years after > Herbert was born. > > Another confusing point is that on the birth certificate of Herbert's > younger brother James William ADAMS, who was born in 1859, the mother's > name > is spelled as Mary Ann GROUMAN, but I just cannot seem to locate anyone by > either of those names - GROMORE or GROUMAN. > > Another puzzle; on the 1861 census, Mary Ann's birthplace was recorded as > Chippenham, Wiltshire, and her age as 28. On the 1871 census, (James was > now a Cab Proprietor) Mary was recorded as 36 and with a birth place of > Eaton-upon-Tern, Salop. So can I assume that there were two Mary's? Was > James previously married, even though his status at the time of his > marriage > to Mary Ann was listed as "Bachelor", or was Herbert born out of wedlock? > James had another wife at the time of the 1881 census - he married Esther > Pumphrey, widow, in 1876. > > I have ordered a number of certificates over the last while, but have > still > remained unsuccessful in my search. I would be so very grateful for any > suggestions on what I might try next! > > Very many thanks for 'listening' to my long and confusing story! > > Patricia > Ontario, Canada > > _________________________________________________________________ > Buy what you want when you want it on Sympatico / MSN Shopping > http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=2,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081805 > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Marlene Thanks for your suggestion. I was desperate. The birth certificate arrived today: the mother's name is given as ALLEN not BOWEN. So I was barking up the wrong tree all this time. I don't know how Laura fits into this but buoyed by my success with the birth certificate, I have sent off for the marriage certificate between William JARVIS and Lizzie ALLEN to see what that can tell me. Thanks for the suggestion: sometimes the obvious course of action gets overlooked. Best wishes Graham ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlene Shipman" <marlene.s@xtra.co.nz> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Elizabeth and Laura BOWEN > Hi Graham > I presume you have your gt grandmother's birth date from family history? > Her birth cert will give her mother's name if you're desperate! > William Charles Jarvis birth is registered as Dec 1855 6b/495 at Walsall. > Laura Bowen appears as an "inmate" of the Walton Rd Major Lester's Girls > Home - a scholar - in 1881. She was born in B'ham. according to the > census. There is a birth in Coventry June 1867. I wonder if that > indicates her mother might have remarried after Elizabeth's birth and > before Laura's? > More interesting, I think, might be to follow the Laura BOWN shown on > the 1881 aged 12. She is shown with a mother Harriet and various > siblings. I'd love a look at the original census for this entry as the > 3 Boarders are shown as JEVONS. Might that be a corruption of Jarvis? > A Look up for the 1871 census for Laura Bowen or Bown born +/-1867 B'ham > should be useful as Elizabeth might be shown with the family. You would > soon tell if there has been a remarriage! > Sometimes you just have to go all around the problem to get the answers! > Sorry I don't have the census info! > Marlene > > > Graham Stanley wrote: >> I am searching for details of my gt grandmother's family who I think were >> called BOWEN. >> Her name was Elizabeth and she "married" William Charles Jarvis sometime >> before ( I hope) the birth of my granny in Aston on 17 May 1879. I can't >> find their marriage certificate on FreeBMD and I suppose it is possible >> that they never married officially. >> The family are living at 55 Staniforth St, Aston, B'ham in 1881 and >> Elizabeth gives her birthplace as B'ham and from her age would have been >> born around 1860/1861. By 1891 they have moved to Walsall (her husband's >> birthplace) and have been joined by her unmarried sister, Laura BOWEN, >> also born in B'ham, around 1869/1870. Laura's presence is my only clue as >> to Elizabeth's maiden name. >> Unfortunately, I have not been able to trace either of the girls in the >> earlier census returns or to find a birth certificate for them on >> FreeBMD. I did find an Elizabeth Bowers in the 1861 census but from >> FreeBMD there was an Elizabeth Bowers born in 1860, so this information >> on the census is probably not a transcription error. >> I appreciate that BOWEN is a fairly common name in B'ham but wondered if >> anyone can help me find the family of Elizabeth and Laura? >> Best wishes >> Graham >> Twickenham >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Jan, Robert James Spencer, ch 20 MAR 1781 Aston Juxta Birmingham, married my gggGrandparents in 1810 in Aston Juxta. Notes: Minister Robert James Spencer was ch 20 MAR 1781 Aston Juxta Birmingham, Warwick, England. Parents Benjamin Spencer and Felicia Hicks, Marriage: 03 APR 1780 Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England. Benjamin took part in the Priestley Riots of 1791. Dr Benjamin Spencer, died 1823, vicar of Aston, magistrate. Thomas Hawkes: Moseley Wake Green: victim. >From 'Alumni Oxienienses' ( CD 0526 Archive CD Books ) SPENCER Benjamin , son of Benjamin of Halesowen, Salop *,gent. MAGDALEN HALL, matric 24 Jan. 1763 , aged 19yrs B.A. 1766, M.A. 1769. D.C.L. 1774. Vicar of Aston, Warks Rector of Hatton Lincs, 1780 until his death in 2nd Sept 1823; Father of Robert James, [also Benjamin and Jane] SPENCER Robert James son of Benjamin of Aston, Cleric, Doctor of Law, WADHAM College, Matric 20 Nov 1798 aged 17yrs B.A. 1802 M.A. 1808 Fellow until 1814. Perpetual Curate Smethwick Staffs. Died in 1814 * Halesowen was part of SAL until 1846, then part of WOR , until 1909 D C L - Doctor of Civil Law -- Doug Hawkes e-mail: dhawkes@ee.ryerson.ca > Hello, > I'm seeking descendants of Benjamin and Betty Spencer, married > around 1799. Would also be interested for information on Ben's > siblings.....Robert and Jane. All three were baptised in Aston > Juxta Birmingham in 1781, 1782 and 1783. > > Jan > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Have you tried searching the Historical Directories site? http://www.historicaldirectories.org/ HTH Anne On 18 Jan 2007, at 10:56, Chris and John Elsegood wrote: > My G Grandfather William McDonald LIVINGSTONE gave his occupation as > Lawyer on his marriage certificate in Jan 1879. Family stories have > it that he was an Articled Clerk for his uncle/brother Christopher > LIVINGSTONE. Could anyone advise me if there are Trade Directories or > lists of Apprentices available where I might find either William or > Christopher and where these directories might be found. thank you > > Chris in Oz > _____________________________________________