Paul Thank you very much for the information, some of which I had but some was new. The problem I can not seem to solve is why there is no birth certificate for a Frederick Luckman with a father Walter. The Walter who I think is my Great Grandfather died in 1897 and yes the occupation does fit. I did not have the information about Flintshire so that is another avenue. Thanks again David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Prescott" <paul@toranean.demon.co.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Frederick Luckman > David: > > Welcome to the list. > > You are blessed with a relatively unusual surname, largely confined to the > west midlands, so there's a fair chance that all of the LUCKMANs are > related > if you can manage to get far enough back. So the first rule is to keep > anything you can collect about people with that surname. > > The 1891 census shows only four people called Frederick LUCKMAN with birth > year 1881-91. Of these, only one has a father called Walter, which is > presumably the one you've seen, and very likely your line. Walter is aged > 34 in 1891, and a Gun Finisher. Does that occupation tie up with > Frederick's marriage certificate? FreeBMD has a death in Aston of a > Walter > John LUCKMAN aged 40 in 1897, which would fit this information (although > there is another Walter who died in Aston in 1898 aged 33, and in 1891 he > was a bedstead rail caster, aged 26 and unmarried). The Walter LUCKMAN > who > was aged 34 in 1891 had a wife called Mary Ann, as you say. > > Your Walter LUCKMAN was born in about 1857, and appears in earlier > censuses. > In 1871 he is with his parents Samuel and Mary Ann in Aston, and Samuel is > a > Gunmaker. In 1861 Walter appears to be in Flintshire (although born > Birmingham) with his aunt and uncle John and Sarah WALTON. That should be > a > very helpful clue. > > A combination of the censuses and FreeBMD will enable you to get back > fairly > easily without leaving the house (I've found all the above in about 15 > minutes) but you would need a subscription to Ancestry. I have no > connection with them other than as a satisfied customer, and I find it > very > good value. > > Good luck > > Paul Prescott > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Luckman" <davidluckman8@aol.com> > To: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:03 PM > Subject: [B'ham] Frederick Luckman > > >> Hi >> I am new to all this, trying to locate my grandfather's birth >> certificate. >> I have a copy of his wedding certificate 1906, stating that he was 21 and >> his father was a Walter Luckman deceased, the marriage took place at >> Birmingham Registry office. I have seen on a census return of 1891 a >> Walter Luckman head of household with a son Frederick aged 6 born in >> Birmingham. According to the Freebdm website there were 2 Fredrick >> Luckman's born in Aston Birmingham in 1885/86. I have approached >> Birmingham Registry office and neither of these Fredericks had either a >> father named Walter or mother named Sarah. It appears as if Sarah died >> around the time of Frederick's birth and there is also a Frederick who >> died aged 0. In 1888 Walter remarried a Mary Ann (Nicklin) who is on the >> 1891 census as wife. Sarah is on the 1881 census as wife of Walter. >> Where do I go from here? I would welcome any suggestions. I do not live >> too from Birmingham so trip to the library would not be a proble! >> m but what questions should I be asking where do I look. >> Many thanks >> David >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Kia Ora Nivard Thank you. Wendy has kindly sent me her photos but I was fascinated to note below the last picture on the site you have given that it states St Silas also knows (sic) as Handsworth. I have a question for you or any other lister... please! I have a couple who married at St Silas Lozelles in 1889. They had 3 children births registered in Aston and then 4 whose births were registered Handsworth. In 1901 they were living at 26 Roland Rd. Does this mean they had not moved very far??? Might all the baptisms be at St Silas? Grateful for any help. Marlene New Zealand Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi Marlene > > There are four nice photo's of St Silas Lozells here > > http://www.saintsilas.org.uk/section/106 > > (scroll down to near the bottom or use Find and Lozells) > > Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > > > >> Kia ora Wendy >> May I please beg a copy of the St Silas Church photo?? One of my Fairys >> walked up the aisle there in 1889. I'd be very grateful! >> Thank you >> Marlene in New Zealand >> >> >> Wendy Partridge wrote: >> >>> Hello Judith >>> > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

David: Welcome to the list. You are blessed with a relatively unusual surname, largely confined to the west midlands, so there's a fair chance that all of the LUCKMANs are related if you can manage to get far enough back. So the first rule is to keep anything you can collect about people with that surname. The 1891 census shows only four people called Frederick LUCKMAN with birth year 1881-91. Of these, only one has a father called Walter, which is presumably the one you've seen, and very likely your line. Walter is aged 34 in 1891, and a Gun Finisher. Does that occupation tie up with Frederick's marriage certificate? FreeBMD has a death in Aston of a Walter John LUCKMAN aged 40 in 1897, which would fit this information (although there is another Walter who died in Aston in 1898 aged 33, and in 1891 he was a bedstead rail caster, aged 26 and unmarried). The Walter LUCKMAN who was aged 34 in 1891 had a wife called Mary Ann, as you say. Your Walter LUCKMAN was born in about 1857, and appears in earlier censuses. In 1871 he is with his parents Samuel and Mary Ann in Aston, and Samuel is a Gunmaker. In 1861 Walter appears to be in Flintshire (although born Birmingham) with his aunt and uncle John and Sarah WALTON. That should be a very helpful clue. A combination of the censuses and FreeBMD will enable you to get back fairly easily without leaving the house (I've found all the above in about 15 minutes) but you would need a subscription to Ancestry. I have no connection with them other than as a satisfied customer, and I find it very good value. Good luck Paul Prescott ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Luckman" <davidluckman8@aol.com> To: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:03 PM Subject: [B'ham] Frederick Luckman > Hi > I am new to all this, trying to locate my grandfather's birth certificate. > I have a copy of his wedding certificate 1906, stating that he was 21 and > his father was a Walter Luckman deceased, the marriage took place at > Birmingham Registry office. I have seen on a census return of 1891 a > Walter Luckman head of household with a son Frederick aged 6 born in > Birmingham. According to the Freebdm website there were 2 Fredrick > Luckman's born in Aston Birmingham in 1885/86. I have approached > Birmingham Registry office and neither of these Fredericks had either a > father named Walter or mother named Sarah. It appears as if Sarah died > around the time of Frederick's birth and there is also a Frederick who > died aged 0. In 1888 Walter remarried a Mary Ann (Nicklin) who is on the > 1891 census as wife. Sarah is on the 1881 census as wife of Walter. > Where do I go from here? I would welcome any suggestions. I do not live > too from Birmingham so trip to the library would not be a proble! > m but what questions should I be asking where do I look. > Many thanks > David > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi I am new to all this, trying to locate my grandfather's birth certificate. I have a copy of his wedding certificate 1906, stating that he was 21 and his father was a Walter Luckman deceased, the marriage took place at Birmingham Registry office. I have seen on a census return of 1891 a Walter Luckman head of household with a son Frederick aged 6 born in Birmingham. According to the Freebdm website there were 2 Fredrick Luckman's born in Aston Birmingham in 1885/86. I have approached Birmingham Registry office and neither of these Fredericks had either a father named Walter or mother named Sarah. It appears as if Sarah died around the time of Frederick's birth and there is also a Frederick who died aged 0. In 1888 Walter remarried a Mary Ann (Nicklin) who is on the 1891 census as wife. Sarah is on the 1881 census as wife of Walter. Where do I go from here? I would welcome any suggestions. I do not live too from Birmingham so trip to the library would not be a problem but what questions should I be asking where do I look. Many thanks David

> > > > > > > > Looking for family connections to Pool family of Birmingham. Also Dowler > and Linehan/Lenahan. > > > The 1881 Census gives. > > Benjamin Pool Head > male aged 52 Wolverhampton Stafford Bedstead > packer > Elizabeth A " Wife > female 45 " " > Dress Maker > Thos Wm A " Son > male 22 " " > Bedstead packer > Joseph J " Son > male 19 Birmingham Warwick Tin Plate > worker > Lydia J " Daug > female 14 " " > At Home > Annie Louise " Daug > female 9 " " > Scholar > > During 1881 the family were living 101 Morville St, Birmingham, Warwick, > England. > > I do have some details of the family to 1901 and some other later details > . > The youngest daughter Annie Louise became a piano forte tutor. > Annie married a Frederick Dowler who I believe died in America. > Annie later teamed up with a John Linehan/Lenahan, a concert promoter and > later they settled in Ireland and became very well known for their music > and concert promotion. > Annie did return to Birmingham and is buried in Lodge Cemetery Birmingham > I am in contact with the Irish side of the family but would like to know > what happened to the rest of the family. > The family had connections with Ladywood, Aston and Edgbaston. > If anyone else is researching this family or the other two names, would > you please be kind enough to e-mail me jackie005@btclick.com

do you have their wedding cert? it should have his father's name & occupation. If you need the ref for the cert let me know. j joan kennett <joan1284@hotmail.com> wrote: Could someone please help me with Thomas? I would like to find him in the 1851 and 1861 censuses to try and work out where he was born so that I can get the LDS parish records films. I have him from 1871 onwards. I am trying to find his parents. Thomas Brooks was born in Birmingham in 1834/5. He married Sarah Cox on her 18th birthday in Jan 1858 in Bristol. Their first daughter Susannah Maria was born there in 1860 while the second daughter, Charlotte, was born in Shrewsbury; other children were born in Birmingham. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Joan In Oz where it is rather warm at the moment. _________________________________________________________________ Join the millions of Australians using Live Search. Try live.com.au http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=740&referral=million&URL=http://live.com.au _____________________________________________ Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Marlene Roland Road is between Heathfield Road and The Lozells Road. still quite close to St Silas. So possibly they were baptised there. Have a look at this link for some photos http://www.pbase.com/beppuu/old_bham&page=4 Best wishes Wendy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlene Shipman" <marlene.s@xtra.co.nz> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] St. Silas Church and my FAIRY family > Kia Ora Nivard > Thank you. Wendy has kindly sent me her photos but I was fascinated to > note below the last picture on the site you have given that it states St > Silas also knows (sic) as Handsworth. > I have a question for you or any other lister... please! > I have a couple who married at St Silas Lozelles in 1889. They had 3 > children births registered in Aston and then 4 whose births were > registered Handsworth. In 1901 they were living at 26 Roland Rd. > Does this mean they had not moved very far??? Might all the baptisms be > at St Silas? > Grateful for any help. > Marlene New Zealand > > Nivard Ovington wrote: >> Hi Marlene >> >> There are four nice photo's of St Silas Lozells here >> >> http://www.saintsilas.org.uk/section/106 >> >> (scroll down to near the bottom or use Find and Lozells) >> >> Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) >> >> >> >>> Kia ora Wendy >>> May I please beg a copy of the St Silas Church photo?? One of my Fairys >>> walked up the aisle there in 1889. I'd be very grateful! >>> Thank you >>> Marlene in New Zealand >>> >>> >>> Wendy Partridge wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Judith >>>> >> >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Ken I was born in Heathfield Road but grew up in Sutton Coldfield. I know the area but not very well. St Silas is in St Silas Square just off Church Street which is off The Lozells Road. Heathfield Road is on the opposite side of the Lozells Road. I have seen the chapel you mention but don't really know it. You would know the area better than me having been a milkman..........now they are very rare! Best Wishes Wendy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth William Bibb" <kbibb@bigpond.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] St. Silas Church and my FAIRY family > Wendy, > I know the area well as I was born in Handsworth, on the web site it > showed > a picture of St Silas Handsworth, well in 1891 Heathfield Rd was in > Handsworth and that is just across the road from the church. Lozells St is > further down Lozells Rd. There is a church or chapel on the corner of > Berners St do you know it? I used to deliver milk around that area. > > Ken B > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wendy Partridge" <wendy.partridge@ntlworld.com> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:34 AM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] St. Silas Church and my FAIRY family > > >> Hello Carol >> There is a good chance that your grandmothers family attended St Silas. >> The >> best way to confirm this is to obtain a marriage certificate for the >> ladies >> of the family. My gt grandparents lived in Burbury Street and his three >> daughters and one son married at St Silas. I always found this a little >> strange as my gt grandfather was a Baptist and St Silas was Cof E. I know >> my >> gt grandfather later became a member of the Congressional Church on Soho >> Hill. >> >> I hope this helps a little >> >> Wendy >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <HubbellGen@aol.com> >> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 4:33 PM >> Subject: Re: [B'ham] St. Silas Church and my FAIRY family >> >> >>> Good morning, I've been watching this thread closely because my WHITE >>> grandmother's family lived at 159 Lozells St. in 1891 and I have had no >>> information >>> as to which church they might have attended until this discussion. The >>> 1891 >>> census record says "Villa Ward, Aston Manor...St. Silas" across the top, >>> and so >>> now I gather from what you are saying that the St. Silas church shown at >>> http://www.saintsilas.org.uk/section/106 entitled "St Silas, Lozells, >>> Birmingham" >>> is the one they would have attended. Is that true? They were Church of >>> England >>> to the best of my knowledge. >>> >>> This is my first exploration of their church membership because I had no >>> idea >>> where to start. In the US, neighborhood address doesn't necessarily have >>> much >>> to do with the location of the church one attends, but with limited >>> transportation and other factors I expect that was not the case in >>> England >>> in the late >>> 1800s. I appreciate your help in learning more about my family. >>> >>> Carol Boggs >>> NC, USA >>> _____________________________________________ >>> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >>> http://www.bham.de/ >>> >>> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Wendy, I know the area well as I was born in Handsworth, on the web site it showed a picture of St Silas Handsworth, well in 1891 Heathfield Rd was in Handsworth and that is just across the road from the church. Lozells St is further down Lozells Rd. There is a church or chapel on the corner of Berners St do you know it? I used to deliver milk around that area. Ken B ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendy Partridge" <wendy.partridge@ntlworld.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:34 AM Subject: Re: [B'ham] St. Silas Church and my FAIRY family > Hello Carol > There is a good chance that your grandmothers family attended St Silas. > The > best way to confirm this is to obtain a marriage certificate for the > ladies > of the family. My gt grandparents lived in Burbury Street and his three > daughters and one son married at St Silas. I always found this a little > strange as my gt grandfather was a Baptist and St Silas was Cof E. I know > my > gt grandfather later became a member of the Congressional Church on Soho > Hill. > > I hope this helps a little > > Wendy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <HubbellGen@aol.com> > To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 4:33 PM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] St. Silas Church and my FAIRY family > > >> Good morning, I've been watching this thread closely because my WHITE >> grandmother's family lived at 159 Lozells St. in 1891 and I have had no >> information >> as to which church they might have attended until this discussion. The >> 1891 >> census record says "Villa Ward, Aston Manor...St. Silas" across the top, >> and so >> now I gather from what you are saying that the St. Silas church shown at >> http://www.saintsilas.org.uk/section/106 entitled "St Silas, Lozells, >> Birmingham" >> is the one they would have attended. Is that true? They were Church of >> England >> to the best of my knowledge. >> >> This is my first exploration of their church membership because I had no >> idea >> where to start. In the US, neighborhood address doesn't necessarily have >> much >> to do with the location of the church one attends, but with limited >> transportation and other factors I expect that was not the case in >> England >> in the late >> 1800s. I appreciate your help in learning more about my family. >> >> Carol Boggs >> NC, USA >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Wonder if anyone could help me, I am trying to find out where my great grandfather Henry Walter Humphries could be buried. He died in a coal mining accident in Hamstead Colliery, 1905 he also lived in Hamstead/. I do know his body was exhumed for an autopsy. but have no idea what cemetery he would be buried in. Handsworth cemetery did not open till later. Does anyone have any ideas how I can find this out. Any help would be appreciated as I now live in Canada, and have no way of knowing how to access this information. He was born in1867 Yardley and died in 1905 in Hamstead. Thanks in advance. Jan in Canada/

Eric you are right about 'nobody checked'....I took ages to 'find' my lot, believing official records....huh!....John Shaw was divorced here in Oz and married again, stating he was a widower...his former wife was very much alive and well. Did I know that - no!....his second wife, also said SHE was a widow....I believed her....THAT was when I thought 'official' records were the truth....how silly was I. I was looking for a wedding of a divorced man and a single woman. Well, they were, they just lied. Why did they, goodness knows.....yes, I eventually thought sideways and twigged that...shock horror...some people lied to officialdom.....his wife was another story...born one name, used another, got married in another one and died with first name back to front.....did anybody tell the truth with anything??? AND they tell you to work backwards....well, the death was in the wrong name, why would I look for a Ann when she died under Sarah ..aagghh....then John decided (or somebody did) to call himself Francis...shall I go on?$%^&*. Robyn, old. oz. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Prescott" <paul@toranean.demon.co.uk> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] Correct interprretation > Eric: > > Nivard has used the right phrase - "taken to be residents of the > parish...[for] as little as 3 weeks". But even that may not be true. All > that you can deduce for certain is that they told the church officials > that > they were residents and had been for 3 weeks. In a rural parish you could > be sure that this was true, as everyone knew everyone. In Birmingham you > can be sure of nothing. No checks were done - the church simply took the > statement of the to-be-weds on trust. There were so many people, and > populations shifted so quickly, that the church had no way at all of > knowing > who their parishioners were. > > So why would people tell an untruth? Simply because they wanted to marry > at > a particular church. This might be for lots of reasons, and it happened > on > a large scale. Even today many people don't marry in their local parish. > As recently as 1950, my own parents gave a false address - that of my > mother's aunt - so as to be able to be married at Oldbury Christchurch in > the Black Country, although they lived in the next parish. And in the > 19th > century there were many inhabitants of rural Warwickshire, Worcestershire > or > Staffordshire who wanted a day out in the big city for their wedding. > > Good luck > > Paul Prescott > > > >> Of this Parish means they were taken to be residents of the Parish at the >> time of the marriage , which could be as little as three weeks. >> >> It does not preclude that they were born there but does not mean they >> were. >> >> Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) >> >> >>> Marriage certificates indicate the person 'Of this Parish'. >>> Does this mean residing at that time or place of birth? >>> I have a forebear married at St Philip in 1804 and the record states he >>> was of this parish, but there is no record of his birth in the area. >>> Help on this query would be greatly appreciated. >>> Eric. >> >> _____________________________________________ >> Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: >> http://www.bham.de/ >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date: > 30/01/2007 11:30 PM > >

I have received information that Thomas was a tailor. I mistake the first letter for an 's'. Tony At 12:22 PM 2/1/2007, you wrote: >I received today the marriage certificate of William Merrin Pinner >and Eliza Barnes. William and Eliza married 15 October 1854 in St. >Peters St. Pauls Church in the Parish of Aston. William and Eliza >were both living in Duddeston. William was 26. William is the son >of Thomas Pinner, sailor. Would some kind soul please look at the >1841 and 1851 and see if you can find a Thomas Pinner with a son >William born about 1828. Later records say that William was born in >Lyon, France. Tony > >_____________________________________________

1861 England Census about John Roberts Name: John Roberts Age: 9 Estimated birth year: abt 1852 Relation: Son Father's name: William Mother's name: Sophia Gender: Male Where born: Clerkenwell, London, England Civil parish: Aston Ecclesiastical parish: Aston County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street address: Wainwright St. Occupation: Glass cutter ( William senior) Errand Boy ( William jun) Prussian Cap D/er ( Sophia junior) Errand Boy ( John) porter ( Alfred) Registration district: Aston Sub-registration district: Erdington ED, institution, or vessel: 17 Household schedule number: 18 1/2 Household Members: Name Age Alfred Roberts 19 Henry Arthur Roberts 4 John Roberts 9 Richard Roberts 6 Mo Sarah Ann Roberts 2 Sophia Roberts 23 Sophia Roberts 10 William Roberts 30 William Roberts 12 More information: Name Parent or spouse names Birth Year Birthplace Relation Civil parish County/Island Sarah Ann Roberts William, Sophia abt 1859 Aston, Warwickshire, England Daughter Aston Warwickshire Sophia Roberts William abt 1838 Marylebone, London, England Wife Aston Warwickshire Sophia Roberts William, Sophia abt 1851 Bloomsbury, London, England Daughter Aston Warwickshire William Roberts Sophia abt 1831 Islington, London, England Head Aston Warwickshire William Roberts William, Sophia abt 1849 Lovington, London, England Son Aston Warwickshire Alfred Roberts abt 1842 Islington, London, England Brother Aston Warwickshire Henry Arthur Roberts William, Sophia abt 1857 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Son Aston Warwickshire John Roberts William, Sophia abt 1852 Clerkenwell, London, England Son Aston Warwickshire Richard Roberts William, Sophia abt 1860 Aston, Warwickshire, England Son Aston Warwickshire View Original Record View original image View blank form up arrow Save This Record Attach this record to a person in your tree as a source record, or save for later evaluation. Save Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 2185; Folio: 3; Page: 5 On 1 Feb 2007, at 17:26, Anthony Hofstee wrote: > John Roberts, age 21, bachelor, Steel Toy Maker, living Nechells, > father William Roberts, glass cutter > Kate Pinner, 19, spinster, living Duddeston, father William Pinner, > gun finisher > married St. Peters St. Pauls Church in the parish of Aston 7 > September 1873. Witnesses were William Roberts and Sarah Ann Roberts. > Would some kind soul please check the 1861 and 1871 census to see if > they can find a William Roberts with a son John born about 1852. > Thanks. Tony > > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Wendy, Thanks for the suggestions, it seems every good reply raises other questions. In this case the family (Arthur & Lydia A WHITE) was next found in 1901 in "Handsworth (part of), St. Michaels, Soho (part of), at 39 Mostyn Road", and in County Stafford (!) and there was a notation by the census taker that "sched. 224 now in St Peter" that followed their record. Theirs was the last family in that section. I don't quite know what to make of all that. It is difficult to follow them, but my grandmother and her two sisters were still at home in 1901, so I expect at least two of them married there. Wherever "there" was, I guess they were in Handsworth by then. Grandma married in Canada. It's confusing to me as she always referred to the city as Birmingham so it gets a little hard to follow. When she was 26 and just before emigration, she lived at 28 Antrobus Road, Birmingham, and as far as I know was the last one at home, so I guess that means yet another neighborhood and another church, but I don't know when they may have moved, or where they lived when the two sisters married. I suspect it may have been at the Antrobus road address. I'll take your suggestion into consideration as I sort out the loose ends. I guess the good thing is that I'm pretty sure they were C of E so that limits the possibilities a little. I appreciate your comments. Carol

Eric, I think that you will find that to be "of this parish" you only had to attend church for a very short time perhaps 3 weeks then have the bans called. Ken B ----- Original Message ----- From: "beric" <beric@net-tech.com.au> To: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 11:56 AM Subject: [B'ham] Correct interprretation > Marriage certificates indicate the person 'Of this Parish'. > Does this mean residing at that time or place of birth? > I have a forebear married at St Philip in 1804 and the record states he > was of this parish, but there is no record of his birth in the area. > Help on this query would be greatly appreciated. > Eric. > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Carol There is a good chance that your grandmothers family attended St Silas. The best way to confirm this is to obtain a marriage certificate for the ladies of the family. My gt grandparents lived in Burbury Street and his three daughters and one son married at St Silas. I always found this a little strange as my gt grandfather was a Baptist and St Silas was Cof E. I know my gt grandfather later became a member of the Congressional Church on Soho Hill. I hope this helps a little Wendy ----- Original Message ----- From: <HubbellGen@aol.com> To: <eng-warks-birmingham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [B'ham] St. Silas Church and my FAIRY family > Good morning, I've been watching this thread closely because my WHITE > grandmother's family lived at 159 Lozells St. in 1891 and I have had no > information > as to which church they might have attended until this discussion. The > 1891 > census record says "Villa Ward, Aston Manor...St. Silas" across the top, > and so > now I gather from what you are saying that the St. Silas church shown at > http://www.saintsilas.org.uk/section/106 entitled "St Silas, Lozells, > Birmingham" > is the one they would have attended. Is that true? They were Church of > England > to the best of my knowledge. > > This is my first exploration of their church membership because I had no > idea > where to start. In the US, neighborhood address doesn't necessarily have > much > to do with the location of the church one attends, but with limited > transportation and other factors I expect that was not the case in England > in the late > 1800s. I appreciate your help in learning more about my family. > > Carol Boggs > NC, USA > _____________________________________________ > Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: > http://www.bham.de/ > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have always found that to mean he/she was living in that Parish at the time of marriage, not necessarily born there. A search of future Census may give his/her birthplace, you will have to hope they live another 47/48 years to make the 1851 Census.{;-) Colin in a cooler Brisbane. ----- Original Message ----- From: beric To: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 11:56 AM Subject: [B'ham] Correct interprretation Marriage certificates indicate the person 'Of this Parish'. Does this mean residing at that time or place of birth? I have a forebear married at St Philip in 1804 and the record states he was of this parish, but there is no record of his birth in the area. Help on this query would be greatly appreciated. Eric. _____________________________________________ Tracing Ancestors in Birmingham: http://www.bham.de/ Any problems, please contact the List Admin: ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Marriage certificates indicate the person 'Of this Parish'. Does this mean residing at that time or place of birth? I have a forebear married at St Philip in 1804 and the record states he was of this parish, but there is no record of his birth in the area. Help on this query would be greatly appreciated. Eric.

John Roberts, age 21, bachelor, Steel Toy Maker, living Nechells, father William Roberts, glass cutter Kate Pinner, 19, spinster, living Duddeston, father William Pinner, gun finisher married St. Peters St. Pauls Church in the parish of Aston 7 September 1873. Witnesses were William Roberts and Sarah Ann Roberts. Would some kind soul please check the 1861 and 1871 census to see if they can find a William Roberts with a son John born about 1852. Thanks. Tony

I received today the marriage certificate of William Merrin Pinner and Eliza Barnes. William and Eliza married 15 October 1854 in St. Peters St. Pauls Church in the Parish of Aston. William and Eliza were both living in Duddeston. William was 26. William is the son of Thomas Pinner, sailor. Would some kind soul please look at the 1841 and 1851 and see if you can find a Thomas Pinner with a son William born about 1828. Later records say that William was born in Lyon, France. Tony