Hi Paul There are three stages, apprenticeship (usually for seven years tied to a master craftsman) Journeyman (who had served his apprenticeship but worked for someone else) and then Master Journeyman derives from the French and means paid by the day Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) Why didn't they just use the word Apprentice then? I thought journeyman meant that they were "mobile" - but hey, I am an idiot from Ladywood! Cheers "it's what's in the grooves that counts"

Why didn't they just use the word Apprentice then? I thought journeyman meant that they were "mobile" - but hey, I am an idiot from Ladywood!  Cheers "it's what's in the grooves that counts" ----- Original Message ---- > From: sue <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, 13 July, 2008 4:41:45 PM > Subject: [B'ham] journeyman > > journeyman > A man who served his apprenticeship in a trade and worked as a fully qualified > employee. The term originated in the regulations of the medieval trade guilds; > it derives from the French journée... > Found on http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/ > >                         sue > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. > It has removed 2042 spam emails to date. > Paying users do not have this message in their emails. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on www.freebmd.org.uk , > giving your contact details?  Other researchers will then be able to make > contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Origin of the title "journeyman" The word 'journeyman' comes from the French word journée, meaning the period of one day; this refers to his right to charge a fee for each day's work. He would normally be employed by a master craftsman, but would live apart and might have a family of his own. A journeyman could not employ others. In contrast, an apprentice would be bound to a master, usually for a fixed term of seven years, and lived with the master as a member of the household, receiving most or all of his compensation in terms of room and board. This from Wikipedia. Hi Karina,A bit more on a Journeyman here. Best Wishes Dave in Inskip karina bailey <[email protected]> wrote: Hello All on the Warks/Birmingham List I'm hoping to maybe find answers to queries or possible links to my Baker Family. I'm a relative beginner to Birmingham research and don't have great knowledge as to the areas my Ancestors lived. Because of this it feels like looking for a needle in a haystack. The information I have so far: Thomas Baker married Charlotte Bayliss 28 Mar 1802 St Martins Birmingham. I have obtained a copy of this entry from Birmingham Library, on it it states that he was of this parish - what general area does St Martins cover? I haven't been able to locate a Baptism for Thomas or Charlotte as yet. Thomas is also noted as being a widower. They had 3 children: All St Martins Sarah Baker 21 May 1807 Thomas Baker 03 April 1809 Joseph Baker 02 Dec 1811 ** My 3x Grt Grandfather Joseph Married Selina Smith 09 Sep 1833 Aston Juxta, Birmingham They had 7 children: Selina Baker 20 Jun 1834 St Martins Joseph Baker 06 Oct 1836 St Martins Benjamin Baker 21 Jan 1838 ** My 2x Grt Grandfather St Martins William Baker 14 Oct 1839 St Martins Anne Baker 15 Apr 1844 Elizabeth Baker 1849 Sarah Baker 1855 On the 1841 Census Joseph and Selina are living in Coleshill St, It's stated that Joseph was a Journeyman Warks. Can someone tell me where Coleshill St is located and why he would be noted as a journeyman, if he was born in Birmingaham? On the 1851 Census they are living at 16 Potters St, which I believe to be Bishops Ryder. Are these two areas near to each other and which churches are located in Bishops Ryder? I'm hoping for a geography lesson here... so I can get my bearings. Thanks in advance Karina E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) Database version: 5.10230e http://www.pctools.com/uk/spyware-doctor/ _____________________________________________ _____________________________________________ Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details? Other researchers will then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. Any problems, please contact the List Admin: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Sheffield Records Online http://www.sheffieldrecordsonline.org.uk Online 1841,1861 Census search.directories,probate,message forum and more. If you are chasing your ancestors round Sheffield..... this is the place to be at!! --------------------------------- Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo!

Excellent.... that stops the confusion. Thank you David and Graham Karina -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of David Carr Sent: 13 July 2008 11:09 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [B'ham] New to the list - Baker Research Hi Karina haven't got all the answers but these links are worth checking out. http://www.bmsgh.org/parish/warw/tyaib/cofeindex.htm http://www.bham.de/index_churches.html A journeyman of any kind was simply someone who was regarded as having reached a skill level necessary to do a full days work in a specific trade. For example a Brass Founder Journeyman. Dave E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) Database version: 5.10230e http://www.pctools.com/uk/spyware-doctor/

journeyman A man who served his apprenticeship in a trade and worked as a fully qualified employee. The term originated in the regulations of the medieval trade guilds; it derives from the French journée... Found on http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/ sue -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 2042 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

Another one to add here is Goodby Road in Moseley. Named after my 1st cousin 3x removed, Horace Edward Goodby who was Lord Mayor of Birmingham from 1932-34. His son, Horace Sydney Goodby became a Birmingham City Councillor for Moseley in 1933-1949; a Justice of the Peace appointed in 1954; an Alderman of the City 1949-1961; Chairman of the City Transport Committee 1949-1952; a Conservative Candidate for Selly Oak in 1963. Georgina Goodby Fisher [email protected] formerly from Sutton Coldfield now in Orange, California 6 miles east of Disneyland _www.goodbytree.org_ (http://www.goodbytree.org/) Goons member #418 One Name Study Goodby **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

Hi Karina haven't got all the answers but these links are worth checking out. http://www.bmsgh.org/parish/warw/tyaib/cofeindex.htm http://www.bham.de/index_churches.html A journeyman of any kind was simply someone who was regarded as having reached a skill level necessary to do a full days work in a specific trade. For example a Brass Founder Journeyman. Dave On 13 Jul 2008, at 09:35, karina bailey wrote: Hello All on the Warks/Birmingham List I'm hoping to maybe find answers to queries or possible links to my Baker Family. I'm a relative beginner to Birmingham research and don't have great knowledge as to the areas my Ancestors lived. Because of this it feels like looking for a needle in a haystack. The information I have so far: Thomas Baker married Charlotte Bayliss 28 Mar 1802 St Martins Birmingham. I have obtained a copy of this entry from Birmingham Library, on it it states that he was of this parish - what general area does St Martins cover? I haven't been able to locate a Baptism for Thomas or Charlotte as yet. Thomas is also noted as being a widower. They had 3 children: All St Martins Sarah Baker 21 May 1807 Thomas Baker 03 April 1809 Joseph Baker 02 Dec 1811 ** My 3x Grt Grandfather Joseph Married Selina Smith 09 Sep 1833 Aston Juxta, Birmingham They had 7 children: Selina Baker 20 Jun 1834 St Martins Joseph Baker 06 Oct 1836 St Martins Benjamin Baker 21 Jan 1838 ** My 2x Grt Grandfather St Martins William Baker 14 Oct 1839 St Martins Anne Baker 15 Apr 1844 Elizabeth Baker 1849 Sarah Baker 1855 On the 1841 Census Joseph and Selina are living in Coleshill St, It's stated that Joseph was a Journeyman Warks. Can someone tell me where Coleshill St is located and why he would be noted as a journeyman, if he was born in Birmingaham? On the 1851 Census they are living at 16 Potters St, which I believe to be Bishops Ryder. Are these two areas near to each other and which churches are located in Bishops Ryder? I'm hoping for a geography lesson here... so I can get my bearings. Thanks in advance Karina

Have you tried St. Philips? A lot of people married at St. Martin's had their children baptised at St. Philip's. Journey man means he was qualified in his work i.e. he had served and completed an apprenticeship. A Master means he was even more qualified in his work and a head person in his trade. Chris -----Original Message----- Hello All on the Warks/Birmingham List I'm hoping to maybe find answers to queries or possible links to my Baker Family The information I have so far: Thomas Baker married Charlotte Bayliss 28 Mar 1802 St Martins Birmingham. I haven't been able to locate a Baptism for Thomas or Charlotte as yet. Thomas is also noted as being a widower. On the 1841 Census Joseph and Selina are living in Coleshill St, It's stated that Joseph was a Journeyman Warks. Can someone tell me where Coleshill St is located and why he would be noted as a journeyman, if he was born in Birmingaham? Thanks in advance Karina

Hello All on the Warks/Birmingham List I'm hoping to maybe find answers to queries or possible links to my Baker Family. I'm a relative beginner to Birmingham research and don't have great knowledge as to the areas my Ancestors lived. Because of this it feels like looking for a needle in a haystack. The information I have so far: Thomas Baker married Charlotte Bayliss 28 Mar 1802 St Martins Birmingham. I have obtained a copy of this entry from Birmingham Library, on it it states that he was of this parish - what general area does St Martins cover? I haven't been able to locate a Baptism for Thomas or Charlotte as yet. Thomas is also noted as being a widower. They had 3 children: All St Martins Sarah Baker 21 May 1807 Thomas Baker 03 April 1809 Joseph Baker 02 Dec 1811 ** My 3x Grt Grandfather Joseph Married Selina Smith 09 Sep 1833 Aston Juxta, Birmingham They had 7 children: Selina Baker 20 Jun 1834 St Martins Joseph Baker 06 Oct 1836 St Martins Benjamin Baker 21 Jan 1838 ** My 2x Grt Grandfather St Martins William Baker 14 Oct 1839 St Martins Anne Baker 15 Apr 1844 Elizabeth Baker 1849 Sarah Baker 1855 On the 1841 Census Joseph and Selina are living in Coleshill St, It's stated that Joseph was a Journeyman Warks. Can someone tell me where Coleshill St is located and why he would be noted as a journeyman, if he was born in Birmingaham? On the 1851 Census they are living at 16 Potters St, which I believe to be Bishops Ryder. Are these two areas near to each other and which churches are located in Bishops Ryder? I'm hoping for a geography lesson here... so I can get my bearings. Thanks in advance Karina E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) Database version: 5.10230e http://www.pctools.com/uk/spyware-doctor/

All Saints Road, Kings Heath Takes it’s name from All Saints Church which was built 1859, architect F. Preedy, built in the Perpendicular Style   Anderton Park Road, Moseley In the nineteenth century the ANDERTON family owned 596 acres in and around Moseley and lived in a large house in Belle Walk. After their father’s death the Misses ANDERTON became noted benefactors, giving money for the building of a house for the vicar of All Saints, Rebecca ANDERTON also gave money for the building of St. Anne’s church in Park Hill (it cost £6,000 to build).   Arter Street, Balsall Heath Named after Mr. ARTER of Daniel and Arter; the partners operated the “Globe Nevada Silver Works” in Upper Highgate St. and made spoons. Sorrento House on the Wake Green Rd. was built by Mr. DANIEL as a wedding present for his wife. Arter St. was developed in the 1830’s originally named Mount Pleasant and renamed in 1897.   Billesley Lane, Moseley Originally Bully or Bulleys Lane, “the clearing in the wood made by Bill”.   Church Road /  Avenue, Moseley Church Road was part of Ladypool Lane until 1855. For centuries Moseley was in the parish of Kings Norton but it’s people sent a petition to Pope Innocent VII saying that for the old, pregnant woman and other weak persons access to Saint Nicolas church was impossible. In 1405 the Pope gave the Bishop of Worcester to licence a chapel at ease in Moseley. Moving on a tad Joseph LUCAS is buried in the churchyard at St. Mary’s   Dyott Road, Moseley In the early 1800’s a Joseph DYOTT owned extensive property, particularly in the Wake Green district of Moseley.   Edgbaston Road, Moseley The word Edgbaston is of Anglo-Saxon origin and means the farmstead (tun) of a man named Ecgbald.   Edward Road, Balsall Heath Reverend Vincent EDWARDES and his wife are remembered here (it was Edwardes Street until 1899), as are Vincent St; Vincent Parade, Vincent Crescent and Mary St.      Cheers "it's what's in the grooves that counts"

Hi Chris, Unfortunately I have not come across Leah Ann as the daughter of "my" William Booth, although I do have a daughter, Anne, born in 1826. Jean 2008/7/11 Graham Cole <[email protected]>: > > Hi Jean, > I also have a William Booth, although I expect there were many. Does your > William have a daughter Leah Ann by any chance? > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-warks-birmingham-bounc[email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jean > Collen > Sent: 11 July 2008 14:35 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [B'ham] A smile for Friday > > I believe that the forger, William Booth was related in some way to the > Booth of Birmingham family I am researching, possibly an Uncle, or cousin > once removed to Thomas Booth (1815-1846), his son, Thomas (1837 (c) to > 1882) > and his son, Edwin Booth who ran Booth's hairdressers at 157 Soho Road, > Handsworth. In turn his son, Edgar J Booth continued this business until he > retired in 1960. > > I would be very pleased to hear more about this family. Although most > people > know about the Booth's lane connection to the forger, nobody has been able > to tell me how Booth Street in Handsworth got its name. > > Regards, > Jean > > > > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on > www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details? Other researchers will > then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > --

Searching for descendants of Margaret Mary NEYLAN married to Glyn SIMONS. Lived in Birmingham 1958. Father of Margaret was Francis Joseph NEYLAN, and was my grandfather's brother. He was killed by a train at Hockley Station( 8.1.1958) where he worked. Birmingham library unable to assist with death notices from newspapers. Francis lived at 2 Ash Grove Chapel St Handsworth. Have his inquest papers and know he is buried at Handswprth cemetery. I live in Australia and any assistance very much appreciated. Regards Margaret

Hi List, I am researching my JONES & BRADLEY families of Birmingham. I don't have very much and I am hoping someone can help me fill in the blanks. I have just discovered my GGGrandfather William Philip JONES was born in Liverpool. William Philip JONES says on 3 Census reports he was born in Liverpool, ca 1844. In the 1861 Census of Oswestry, Shopshire he is an Apprentice Saddler living with an Evans family. He eventually moved to Yardley and married Elizabeth BRADLEY of Birmingham. Elizabeth born ca 1846 in Birmingham, is the daughter of Francis BRADLEY and Elizabeth DILLEY. Names in the family are: Elizabeth Eugenia, Margaret Caroline, Wm Henry, Flora Emma, Lily, Kerlette?, Rose Ellen, Thomas Francis and Fred Charles JONES Can anyone help with my family? Elizabeth Robbins, Canada

Kia Ora. Greetings from New Zealand! I am researching forwards in an attempt to find my great grandfather's family. I have information up to 1901 clearly documented. After that my knowledge is limited to the following: Charles Alfred BAKER & Eva Mary BYRNE (born Dec 1894) were married early 1922 in Birmingham. At least between 1935 and 1939 they were known to be living at 11 Hobmoor Croft in Yardley. Does anyone know this area? I am trying to ascertain, when they died, whether the couple had any children etc. Eva's family, father James born c. 1872, mother Jane (Johanna), born 1867 and brother James Henry Victor BYRNE, born 1898, lived at 69 Lower Dartmouth Street, St Bartholomews between 1920 and 1930. Did James HV marry after 1930? Is anyone connected? Does anyone know anyhting of these families? Grateful for any info/leads! Marlene New Zealand

Hi Jean, I also have a William Booth, although I expect there were many. Does your William have a daughter Leah Ann by any chance? Chris -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jean Collen Sent: 11 July 2008 14:35 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [B'ham] A smile for Friday I believe that the forger, William Booth was related in some way to the Booth of Birmingham family I am researching, possibly an Uncle, or cousin once removed to Thomas Booth (1815-1846), his son, Thomas (1837 (c) to 1882) and his son, Edwin Booth who ran Booth's hairdressers at 157 Soho Road, Handsworth. In turn his son, Edgar J Booth continued this business until he retired in 1960. I would be very pleased to hear more about this family. Although most people know about the Booth's lane connection to the forger, nobody has been able to tell me how Booth Street in Handsworth got its name. Regards, Jean

Paul, What about Booth St Handsworth?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Gebhard" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 5:40 PM Subject: [B'ham] A smile for Friday I've been browsing through a book that explains the origins of certain street names in Birmingham, I found the following amusing:- Booth's Lane, Great Barr:- William BOOTH was a notorious forger and minter of false coins and on 28 March 1812 the military attacked his farmhouse in Great Barr (hence Booth's Farm Rd.); the authorities found £3,000 in gnuine notes, 200 genuine guineas, £600 in counterfeit silver coins and a large amount of forged notes. He was sent for trial at Stratford Assizes. Four years previously he had been tried and acquitted for the murder of his brother. This time he was found guilty. Booth was executed publicly on 15 August 1815, but the hangman bungled the job and so the coiner had to be revived and hanged again two hours later. He was buried at Handsworth Old Church and later removed elsewhere. Thus, Booth was tried twice, hanged twice and buried twice! Cheers "it's what's in the grooves that counts" _____________________________________________ _____________________________________________ Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details? Other researchers will then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. Any problems, please contact the List Admin: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1545 - Release Date: 10/07/2008 6:43 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1545 - Release Date: 10/07/2008 6:43 PM

I believe that the forger, William Booth was related in some way to the Booth of Birmingham family I am researching, possibly an Uncle, or cousin once removed to Thomas Booth (1815-1846), his son, Thomas (1837 (c) to 1882) and his son, Edwin Booth who ran Booth's hairdressers at 157 Soho Road, Handsworth. In turn his son, Edgar J Booth continued this business until he retired in 1960. I would be very pleased to hear more about this family. Although most people know about the Booth's lane connection to the forger, nobody has been able to tell me how Booth Street in Handsworth got its name. Regards, Jean 2008/7/11 Paul Gebhard <[email protected]>: > > I've been browsing through a book that explains the origins of certain > street > names in Birmingham, I found the following amusing:- > > Booth's Lane, Great Barr:- > > William BOOTH was a notorious forger and minter of false coins and on 28 > March > 1812 the military attacked his farmhouse in Great Barr (hence Booth's Farm > Rd.); > the authorities found £3,000 in gnuine notes, 200 genuine guineas, £600 in > counterfeit silver coins and a large amount of forged notes. > > He was sent for trial at Stratford Assizes. Four years previously he had > been > tried and acquitted for the murder of his brother. This time he was found > guilty. Booth was executed publicly on 15 August 1815, but the hangman > bungled > the job and so the coiner had to be revived and hanged again two hours > later. He > was buried at Handsworth Old Church and later removed elsewhere. > > Thus, Booth was tried twice, hanged twice and buried twice! > > Cheers > > "it's what's in the grooves that counts" > > > _____________________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on > www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details? Other researchers will > then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Jean Collen

The Staffordshire and Stoke on Trent City Archive services have some downloadable PDF files which show their holdings ..... they are buried quite deep on their site .... why ? ... No-one knows ! BUT they can be found at the following address .... http://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/leisure/archives/publications/GuidestoSources.htm regards Bill

Ken I'm afraid that it doesn't say, what it does say is that after a while Streets were considered "downmarket" (purely sometimes just by being a street, i.e. often without any logic) so in middle/upper class areas such as Moseley there are no streets at all they are all roads. I think that Booth St. must be one of the very few streets in Handsworth?  Cheers "it's what's in the grooves that counts" ----- Original Message ---- > From: Kenneth William Bibb <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, 11 July, 2008 10:08:34 AM > Subject: Re: [B'ham] A smile for Friday > > Paul, > What about Booth St Handsworth?? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Gebhard" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 5:40 PM > Subject: [B'ham] A smile for Friday > > > > I've been browsing through a book that explains the origins of certain > street > names in Birmingham, I found the following amusing:- > > Booth's Lane, Great Barr:- > > William BOOTH was a notorious forger and minter of false coins and on 28 > March > 1812 the military attacked his farmhouse in Great Barr (hence Booth's Farm > Rd.); > the authorities found £3,000 in gnuine notes, 200 genuine guineas, £600 in > counterfeit silver coins and a large amount of forged notes. > > He was sent for trial at Stratford Assizes. Four years previously he had > been > tried and acquitted for the murder of his brother. This time he was found > guilty. Booth was executed publicly on 15 August 1815, but the hangman > bungled > the job and so the coiner had to be revived and hanged again two hours > later. He > was buried at Handsworth Old Church and later removed elsewhere. > > Thus, Booth was tried twice, hanged twice and buried twice! > > Cheers > > "it's what's in the grooves that counts"

 I've been browsing through a book that explains the origins of certain street  names in Birmingham, I found the following amusing:-  Booth's Lane, Great Barr:-  William BOOTH was a notorious forger and minter of false coins and on 28 March  1812 the military attacked his farmhouse in Great Barr (hence Booth's Farm Rd.);  the authorities found £3,000 in gnuine notes, 200 genuine guineas, £600 in  counterfeit silver coins and a large amount of forged notes.  He was sent for trial at Stratford Assizes. Four years previously he had been  tried and acquitted for the murder of his brother. This time he was found  guilty. Booth was executed publicly on 15 August 1815, but the hangman bungled  the job and so the coiner had to be revived and hanged again two hours later. He  was buried at Handsworth Old Church and later removed elsewhere. Thus, Booth was tried twice, hanged twice and buried twice!   Cheers  "it's what's in the grooves that counts"