Hello to everybody on the Todmorden mailing list! According to the 1881 census, my great, great grandfather, Richard Sutcliffe, and his wife, Betty Taylor, were both born in Todmorden, and I am trying to find out more about them and their families and ancestors at the time when they were in Todmorden. I wonder whether anyone else on the mailing list might be related too, or at least might have some more information as a result of their own research. Richard Sutcliffe was 10 years old in the 1851 census, and lived in 'Lanebottom', Walsden, and was born in Walsden, as were the rest of his family. He had brothers Abraham, 8, and Thomas, 7, and a sister Hannah, aged 1. Their parents were Samuel and Betty Sutcliffe, 33 and 32 years. Samuel was a stone mason, and Betty was a hand loom weaver (cotton). Richard was also a hand loom weaver. In the 1881 census, I also found another sister and brother of Richard, who were not born by the time of the 1851 census: John Sutcliffe, 29 in 1881, and Alice Sutcliffe, 15 in 1881, both born in Walsden, but living in York by 1881. I have the marriage certificate of Richard Sutcliffe and Betty Taylor. They married at the York Street Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Todmorden, by which time Richard Sutcliffe had moved to 4 Stephens Street, Rochdale, and was a teacher of music, but Betty Taylor, 25 years old and a card room hand, was living in Knowlwood Bottom, Walsden. Her father was James Taylor, a twister, and the two witnesses were Thomas Butterworth and Hannah Dawson. I haven't found Betty and her father James Taylor on the 1851 census yet, and I haven't looked at any other Todmorden censuses apart from part of the Todmorden/Walsden 1851 census and the 1881 census. I think Richard was born in April or May 1841, and his wife Betty Taylor should have been born between about April 1836 and April 1837. By the time of the 1881 census, Richard Sutcliffe and his wife Betty (and his widowed mother Betsy or Betty) had moved to York, where he was a hotel keeper, and he also had a music shop at another address in York, where his wife Betty or Betsey was listed as a piano dealer's wife. I think that Richard's sister Hannah Sutcliffe married Robert Newell in the Todmorden registration district during the quarter of the year ending in December 1873, but I do not have any other details of this marriage, apart from finding them together in the 1881 census in Stansfield, Yorkshire. Richard's brother Abraham Sutcliffe, a publican in 1881, married Sarah Ellen Broadbent in the Halifax registration district during the quarter of the year ending March 1871. Again, I do not have further details of this marriage, although I have found them in York in the 1881 census, and in this, it says their two children were born in Halifax. If you can help by providing any more information, or if you think you are related to any of these families, or if any of these details were useful to you, please let me know. I live more than 200 miles away from Todmorden, so it is difficult for me to access some of the sources of information. Best wishes, Anne

Hi Anne and everyone, I have a collection of entries in all the census returns for Walsden which I am willing to share. I have some Sutcliffes, Taylors and Newhalls for Anne. Is it OK if I send these by attachment in a word doc? I have just done a virus scan and my computer is clean. Linda Linda.Briggs1@btinternet.com ANNE WROTE: Hello to everybody on the Todmorden mailing list! According to the 1881 census, my great, great grandfather, Richard Sutcliffe, and his wife, Betty Taylor, were both born in Todmorden, and I am trying to find out more about them and their families and ancestors at the time when they were in Todmorden. I wonder whether anyone else on the mailing list might be related too, or at least might have some more information as a result of their own research. Richard Sutcliffe was 10 years old in the 1851 census, and lived in 'Lanebottom', Walsden, and was born in Walsden, as were the rest of his family. He had brothers Abraham, 8, and Thomas, 7, and a sister Hannah, aged 1. Their parents were Samuel and Betty Sutcliffe, 33 and 32 years. Samuel was a stone mason, and Betty was a hand loom weaver (cotton). Richard was also a hand loom weaver. In the 1881 census, I also found another sister and brother of Richard, who were not born by the time of the 1851 census: John Sutcliffe, 29 in 1881, and Alice Sutcliffe, 15 in 1881, both born in Walsden, but living in York by 1881. I have the marriage certificate of Richard Sutcliffe and Betty Taylor. They married at the York Street Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Todmorden, by which time Richard Sutcliffe had moved to 4 Stephens Street, Rochdale, and was a teacher of music, but Betty Taylor, 25 years old and a card room hand, was living in Knowlwood Bottom, Walsden. Her father was James Taylor, a twister, and the two witnesses were Thomas Butterworth and Hannah Dawson. I haven't found Betty and her father James Taylor on the 1851 census yet, and I haven't looked at any other Todmorden censuses apart from part of the Todmorden/Walsden 1851 census and the 1881 census. I think Richard was born in April or May 1841, and his wife Betty Taylor should have been born between about April 1836 and April 1837. By the time of the 1881 census, Richard Sutcliffe and his wife Betty (and his widowed mother Betsy or Betty) had moved to York, where he was a hotel keeper, and he also had a music shop at another address in York, where his wife Betty or Betsey was listed as a piano dealer's wife. I think that Richard's sister Hannah Sutcliffe married Robert Newell in the Todmorden registration district during the quarter of the year ending in December 1873, but I do not have any other details of this marriage, apart from finding them together in the 1881 census in Stansfield, Yorkshire. Richard's brother Abraham Sutcliffe, a publican in 1881, married Sarah Ellen Broadbent in the Halifax registration district during the quarter of the year ending March 1871. Again, I do not have further details of this marriage, although I have found them in York in the 1881 census, and in this, it says their two children were born in Halifax. If you can help by providing any more information, or if you think you are related to any of these families, or if any of these details were useful to you, please let me know. I live more than 200 miles away from Todmorden, so it is difficult for me to access some of the sources of information. Best wishes, Anne ==== ENG-TODMORDEN Mailing List ==== Interested in Anglo-Italian Research? http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Thanks, Linda - it will be good to see the details you have of the Sutcliffes, Taylors and Newhalls. The only problem I have with attachments, is that I do not have Microsoft Office word processing, only Lotus Word Pro, so although most attachments are accessible to me, I sometimes cannot open or view some attachments that are specifically written using Microsoft Office. I had not realised that the spelling of Newill or Newall could be Newhall, but now that I see it, it makes sense, as not many people could read or write in those days, so all these spellings could be interchangeable. Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda" <Linda.Briggs1@btinternet.com> To: <ENG-TODMORDEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-TOD] Sutcliffe and Taylor families of Todmorden and Walsden > Hi Anne and everyone, > I have a collection of entries in all the census returns for Walsden which I > am willing to share. I have some Sutcliffes, Taylors and Newhalls for Anne. > Is it OK if I send these by attachment in a word doc? I have just done a > virus scan and my computer is clean. > Linda > Linda.Briggs1@btinternet.com > >

Hi, everyone - this is particularly for Linda, (who I understand is interested in the surname Law amongst others,) but also for anyone else for whom this may be useful:- From the 1851 census, Township of Todmorden and Walsden, Ecclesiastical District of Walsden. Folio 526, page 4, Householder's schedule number 12. The address is 'Lanebottom'. John Law, head, married, 55 years, rag and bone dealer, born Walsden, Lancs. Betty Law, wife, married 51 years, born Walsden, Lancs. John Law, son, unmarried, 27 years, railway labourer, born Walsden, Lancs. Robert Law, son, unmarried, 23 years, railway plate layer, born Walsden, Lancs. Susannah Law, daughter, unmarried, 14 years, scholar, born Walsden, Lancs. William Dawson, brother in law, unmarried, 42 years, engine worker, born Walsden, Lancs. (So William Dawson must have been Betty Law's brother, which would make her Betty Dawson before she married.) This family lived only five houses away from my ancestor Richard Sutcliffe, who also lived in Lanebottom, with his parents Samuel and Betty, and brothers Abraham and Thomas, and sister Hannah. The other Law families which I have details of, are as follows:- 1851 census, Township of Todmorden and Walsden, Ecclesiastical District of Walsden. Folio 524, page 1, Householder's schedule numbers 3 and 4 (i.e. two households). The address is 'Smales', which came after two houses in Deanroydgate End, and before lots of houses in Lanebottom. Householder's schedule 3: 'Smales'. William Law, head, widower, 50 years, quarryman, born Walsden, Lancs. Samuel Law, son, unmarried, 23 years, picker maker (- what does this mean?), born Walsden, Lancs. Betty Law, daughter, unmarried, 20 years, housekeeper, born Walsden, Lancs. Thomas Law, son, unmarried, 17 years, picker maker, born Walsden, Lancs. Householder's schedule 4: 'Smales'. John Law, head, married, 47 years, quarryman, born Walsden, Lancs. Susan Law, wife, married, 48 years, born Walsden, Lancs. William Law, son, unmarried, 26 years, iron roller maker, born Walsden, Lancs. Robert Law, son, unmarried, 21 years, factory scutcher (cotton), born Walsden, Lancs. Samuel Law, son, unmarried, 19 years, picker maker, born Walsden, Lancs. Martha Law, daughter, unmarried, 8 years, at home, born Walsden, Lancs. Abraham Law, son, unmarried, 11 years, iron roller maker, born Walsden, Lancs. Anne

Anne, I see that Linda, as usual, has come to your aid. I recently wrote to another List that a book "Concerning Todmorden Parish" (1911) by C.G. Ramshaw had come into my care. It was in the effects of a good friend and also an in-law who died about a year ago. He believed that his 2XGt.g.father James FIELDEN was related to the more famous John FIELDEN M.P. of Dobroyd Castle. I am still working on the possible link and the book has given me quite a lot of background information on the Parish Church,St.Mary's and events in the life of the village. There are photos of some of the people in the text including Messrs. Jno. CROSSLEY and Jas . TAYLOR (former Wardens) -the reference is dated 1840. I take the term Wardens to refer to the people appointed to uphold the law i.e. police functions. Needless to say there are other references to the SUTCLIFFE and TAYLOR families. For example in 1829 a Mr. John CROSSLEY was a chapel warden whose signature was added to a note about some goings on at Rochdale Parish Church. Unfortunately the book is not written as Family History with dates precisely defined and family linkages are referred to almost by accident. I am still trying to prepare an Index of the names but it's a frustrating exercise. BTW There is a photo of James FIELDEN, choirmaster, and his address is given in the text and to confirm the photo he has signed the book with his address 2 Sanworth St., Halifax Road, Todmorden. Inside the book was envelope addressed to Miss Ruth FIELDEN, Harley House Mill, Blind Lane, Todmorden. It has a 5 cent stamp and is postmarked New York, Sep.15, 85 (?1885). I think this Ruth was his daughter but who wrote to her? In 1881 the family was living at No. 4 Dobroyd. Was this part of Dobroyd Castle? Ruth was then 12 and James, an Iron Turner, aged 39. James was the son of William (a Sadler) sic. So many questions and too many possible answers. Regards, Ernest (Southport, Lancs.) researching Todmorden for FIELDEN, BARKER, ROBERTS,WHITEHEAD. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Curnow" <annejennings@waitrose.com> To: <ENG-TODMORDEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:15 AM

Thanks for your message, Ernest, about the people mentioned in the book which you own. It is interesting to hear of James Taylor being a warden - I have only heard of that term in reference to church wardens, rather than constables or others who helped to 'keep the peace'. If you do find any mention of Richard or Samuel Sutcliffe in this book, I would be interested to know. Although Richard Sutcliffe and his children seem to have been Methodists, as they married in the Methodist Church, Richard also had some connection with the Anglican Church. When his daughter Clara's birth was registered in March 1869, Richard's occupation was given as 'Lay clerk, York Minster'. Richard and his wife Betty do not seem to have lived in Todmorden or Walsden after their marriage in 1862 - they moved first to Rochdale, and then to York. By 1906, Betty died, I think in the London area, and my family tell me that Richard at some time went to America to try to make some money, but became ill, and had to come back to England, his family having scraped together his fare for his journey home. Anne