Colin, I have read your note about copyright, but I assume it is OK in the instance of the 1881 Almanack, as I assume the book is pretty old, and is out of print. (Or is it on microfiche or CD?) Some of the books which people have mentioned, are not even available at the British Library. Also, as far as I know, anyone can create an edited summary, or an index where there isn't one in the book, and can send that to anyone: the copyright rules apply to exact, or almost exact, copies of any part of the book (of more than a few words in length), although the author's name and the title of the book should be quoted in the case of summaries etc. Is this correct? Anne

Hi All, As someone with a (small) finger in the publishing world and a large finger in the Internet publishing world, may I urge a note of caution with look-ups and the advertising thereof. At first sight, it's a wonderful idea for everyone to tell each other which books and CDs they have so that people can obtain the information the need without having to buy the relevant books/CDs. However......... People who publish books and CDs are entitled to expect a return on their investment in time and money, and that is of course what copyright is all about. So, for instance, if you had spent a year gathering together a large amount of information about Todmorden and published a book containing this information only to have someone tell the world that they have a copy of this book and will look up anything that anyone would like from the book, you would have every right to be more than somewhat annoyed. Exactly the same goes for CD roms too, though it's slightly different with most CDs as they usually (mine included) carry scans of out of copyright books: Even though the scans are of out of copyright books, in the eyes of copyright law, they are photographs, and (new) photographs are, in English law, the copyright of the person who took the photograph (with or without a copyright notice on the photograph), and so using the photograph to produce information for a look up is effectively the same as looking up information from a book which is in copyright - if you have the book though, there's no problem. There are some producers of CD roms who do not mind people advertising look-ups from them as they say it gives them free advertising, but the same people complain about lack of sales too......! It is a condition of sale of my CDs that the purchasers do not advertise look-ups on the internet, however this would not preclude someone from doing a look up from one of my CDs for someone who had asked for information on a mailing list and replying privately so as to not make it apparent that the own the CD. I have a note on my web-site that asks anyone with any objection to this to drop me a line, and only one person so far has done so, but this was to do with purchasing the CD for a library. At the end of the day, it is up to the owner of the book to decide if it is reasonable to offer look-ups from it. In the UK, copyright on a book exists for 70years after the death of the author (it's different for edited data such as directories). Somewhere in between the book being published and its going out of copyright, it goes out of print and so becomes un-obtainable except through second hand book shops. At this point I would consider it reasonable to offer look-ups (but this is only my opinion!). While the book is in print it is my belief that it would not be unreasonable for the author to sue anyone offering look-ups for breach of copyright. Now, putting my Genuki hat on: If you go on to the Genuki Yorkshire site, you will find a vast amount of information there for free (not a lot for Todmorden though). There are over 8,000 pages plus a large number of photographs of churches etc. Hopefully, all the transcribed information you find on the site is from out of copyright books or has been written by people specifically for publication on the site. Whilst it is me who maintains the Genuki Yorkshire site (with Angela Petyt who looks after Ripon), and a lot of the data was transcribed by myself or my family, there has been a large amount of time and effort put in by others too - such as Peter Nelson and Peter Johnson who did part of the transciption and all of the checking and correction of the two Bulmer's books. There is also a lot of data on the site produced as a "one off" article by individuals. If you feel that you would like to contribute to this large pool of data for your area of interest and the data you have is either yours or out of copyright, then I (we) would be very pleased to host the data on the Genuki site so long as it is of general interest and not family specific (i.e. no family trees etc - there are other places on the web for these). Just drop me a line if you can add information - your rights will not be affected and acknowledgements will be made as required. Your data will be added to my database, and so will have additional copyright protection under the database copyright act. You will find references to Todmorden on: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Rochdale/ http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Halifax/ and (Lancashire) http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Todmorden/ Best wishes, Colin Hinson In the village of Blunham in Bedfordshire U.K. Maintainer of the Genuki Yorkshire pages: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ Rare Books on CD: http://www.blunham.demon.co.uk/CDroms/ Baine's & Bulmers directories, History of Craven, Heywood/Northowram, National gazetteer of Great Britain & Ireland, Whelan's York & NRY

Andrea, Could I please have a Word copy as an e-mail attachment? Grateful thanks, Peter Crossley Isère, France peter-crossley@wanadoo.fr

Hello Andrea. I would appreciate a copy . Thanking you in advance. Respectfully, Curt Lehman

Hello Andrea, Thank you for your offer, could you please send me a copy which could be very useful. Thank you, Regards, Alison. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrea Calman" <ahc@ivysystems.freeserve.co.uk> To: <ENG-TODMORDEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:39 PM Subject: [ENG-TOD] 1881 Almanack > I know have available the Events of 1880 as listed in the 1881 Todmorden & Hebden Bridge Historical Almanack. > > I have it in WPD (wordperfect), DOC (word) and TXT (just about anything) formats. I will send it to anyone who wants a copy. > > Andrea. > > > ==== ENG-TODMORDEN Mailing List ==== > Have you used Tree Tops? > The Free FAMILY TREE & WE'LL MEET AGAIN SERVICE > http://freespace.virgin.net/tree.tops > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

Andrea, I would also like to add my name to the list please - an attachment in Word will suit me fine. TIA, Ernest (Southport) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrea Calman" <ahc@ivysystems.freeserve.co.uk> To: <ENG-TODMORDEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:39 PM

and me please TIA John in Doncaster UK (born in Halifax, West Yorks) > Andrea, > I would love a copy please - word will do, by email attachment, > Many thanks, > Linda > Linda.Briggs1@btinternet.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrea Calman" <ahc@ivysystems.freeserve.co.uk> > To: <ENG-TODMORDEN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:39 PM > Subject: [ENG-TOD] 1881 Almanack > > > I know have available the Events of 1880 as listed in the 1881 Todmorden & > Hebden Bridge Historical Almanack. > > I have it in WPD (wordperfect), DOC (word) and TXT (just about anything) > formats. I will send it to anyone who wants a copy. > > Andrea. > > > ==== ENG-TODMORDEN Mailing List ==== > Have you used Tree Tops? > The Free FAMILY TREE & WE'LL MEET AGAIN SERVICE > http://freespace.virgin.net/tree.tops > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go > to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== ENG-TODMORDEN Mailing List ==== > Have you used Tree Tops? > The Free FAMILY TREE & WE'LL MEET AGAIN SERVICE > http://freespace.virgin.net/tree.tops > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Sandy, The WRY sell fiche sets of most of the registers of all the Todmorden and Walsden and area churches, burials, marriages and baptisms. Email: sales@wakefieldarchives.freeserve.co.uk. There is also a fiche of the inscriptions on all the St. Mary's tombstones - I have this. There are many Churches in the area. St. Mary's in Todmorden was a Chapel of Ease for the Parish of Rochdale, last burial was 1857. There is also St. Pauls's at Cross Stones, Todmorden, which has a massive grave yard, St. Peter's at Walsden which started burying people about 1845, Christchurch in Todmorden, which was built in 1832 to replace St. Mary's, but is now closed and St. Mary's re-opened, but not for burials. If your ancestors were non-conformists, they could be just about anywhere!!! I am not an expert on non-conformists, but I'm sure other listers will be. Hope this is of help, Linda

Andrea, I would love a copy please - word will do, by email attachment, Many thanks, Linda Linda.Briggs1@btinternet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrea Calman" <ahc@ivysystems.freeserve.co.uk> To: <ENG-TODMORDEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:39 PM Subject: [ENG-TOD] 1881 Almanack I know have available the Events of 1880 as listed in the 1881 Todmorden & Hebden Bridge Historical Almanack. I have it in WPD (wordperfect), DOC (word) and TXT (just about anything) formats. I will send it to anyone who wants a copy. Andrea. ==== ENG-TODMORDEN Mailing List ==== Have you used Tree Tops? The Free FAMILY TREE & WE'LL MEET AGAIN SERVICE http://freespace.virgin.net/tree.tops ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

I know have available the Events of 1880 as listed in the 1881 Todmorden & Hebden Bridge Historical Almanack. I have it in WPD (wordperfect), DOC (word) and TXT (just about anything) formats. I will send it to anyone who wants a copy. Andrea.

I have the following and am always willing to share and do look ups: Linda Linda.Briggs1@btinternet.com The following wills (transcribed onto word.) Samuel Law (1764-1842) Robert Law (1774-1842) William Law (1815-1891) Tom Law (1854-1927) Henry Crossley (1851-1922) 1783 Lease agreement for Lumbutts Mill between John Crossley (the freeholder) of Scaitcliffe, Thomas Hughes of Folley Mill, Robert Law of Dyke Green, Samuel Law of Toadcarr, Abraham Crossley of Lumbutts. Includes a fascinating inventory of the mill, which at that time was a corn mill. The lease agreement was that the tenants would convert it to a cotton mill. Contains John Crossleys signature and interesting financial arrangements. Transcribed to word. 1783 partnership agreement between those above mentioned. Transcribed to word. 1784 change of partners agreement between Thomas Hughes of Long Addingham, Samuel Fielden of Plattshouse, John Tattersall of Lumbutts, Robert Law, Samuel Law and Abraham Crossley. Transcribed to word. 1826 Indenture regarding land at Ramsden Wood between Thomas Bottomley of Travis Mill, James Bamford, Robert and Thomas Law of Ramsden. This is hard to read so I can't transcribe it. Various extracts from all the census returns 1841 - 1881, mainly of Walsden. These are collections from searches for my family but contain all the other names on the pagers. Quite a lot of them. Crossley and Law tombstone memorials from St. Peter's, also some Woodheads and others. Transcribed to word. Marriages at St. Mary's Todmorden 1807-1837 BOOK Monumental Inscriptions of St. Mary's Tombstones Todmorden FICHE The Registers of St. Mary's Todmorden 1666-1780 FICHE The Registers of St. Mary's Todmorden 1781-1812 BOOK Todmorden 1811 surname census 1811 BOOK Todmorden 1841 census head of household index 1841 FICHE Todmorden 1851 census head of household index 1851 FICHE Walsden St. Peter's Baptisms 1845-1878 FICHE Walsden St. Peter's Burials 1848-1874 FICHE (The books are easy to do look ups, the fiche require a visit to the library, but this is no problem) 1873 Return of Owners Land covering Todmorden. CD 1824/25 Baines Directory covering Todmorden CD

Here are a few Todmorden web sites to try: http://www.todtalk.com/ http://www.any-village.co.uk/main.asp?SiteID=AVUK&DN=TODMORDEN.CO.UK http://todmorden.org/ http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Todmorden/#Probate http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Textiles.htm http://members.lycos.co.uk/carlharding/links_fielden.htm Hope they are helpful, Andrea ---------- From: GBHlnMT1@aol.com[SMTP:GBHlnMT1@aol.com] Sent: 03 May 2002 14:37 To: ENG-TODMORDEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-TOD] Request In a message dated 5/3/02 5:43:06 AM, Linda.Briggs1@btinternet.com writes: << if those who have "aids" for the Todmorden area could list them when time permits, such as census details, registers, books, etc. >> Yes, this would be most helpful. I am wondering if some UK persons might have knowledge of web sites that contain good history of the Todmorden area. Thanks to all listers who posted book and book source information. This was very helpful. Sandy in Montana ==== ENG-TODMORDEN Mailing List ==== Interested in Modern Newspaper Indexes? http://www.dreamwater.net/genealogy/Newspapers.htm ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Good idea Linda. Funnily enough I was just thinking about posting a message about the Todmorden Almanacks. I have a few which I am in the (slow) process of scanning and converting into a text document, so that simple searches can be used for names, places etc. I have almost finished an extract from the 1881 book, covering the events of 1880 and I will let you all know when it is available. A few of the other resources I have are: 1881 UK Census on CD Tod Almanacks for 1881, 1883, 1895, 1896, 1897, 1898, 1900, 1905, 1906, 1907 & 1910 Image files (in PDF or JPG) of the following Wills: James Fielden on Clough (1856) John Fielden of Centre Vale Joshua Fielden of Waterside (I find them very diffiult to read, and if any one is good at reading old handwriting, please let me know!) Image files of the following people: Jenny Greenwood (1749-1825) John Barker, 1911 John Fielden 1784-1849 Joshua Fielden (1748-1811) Parish Church Officials, 1911 Sally Fielden, 1780-1859 Thomas Eastwood Sutcliffe, 1911 Thomas Fielden, 1790-1869 William Albert Sutcliffe, 1911 William Cobbett Young Sam I also have quite a few digital photo's of graves at Walsden churchyard. I have various other stuff, which I will update you with including some Web links and list of books. I'm happy to take enquiries or send out images for the above resources, as long as they are not urgent !! Andrea.

Several years ago I was able to trace my family back to Northern Sweden. I fact, I found and visited eight current families who were connected to my family who immigrated to the USA. It has been a thrilling and wonderful exchange. I so much would like to find some current descendants of my husband's Todmorden family. Has anyone on the Todmorden list been able to make connections of this type? Sandy Montana, USA

Hi everyone, May I make a request to all Todmorden listers? I, for one, would find it helpful and interesting if replies could be made through the list as well as privately (or instead of). I don't want to miss out on anything! It may also be useful to everyone if those who have "aids" for the Todmorden area could list them when time permits, such as census details, registers, books, etc. and if they are willing to share what they have with the rest. What do you think? Linda Linda.Briggs1@btinternet.com

In a message dated 5/3/02 8:10:06 AM, ahc@ivysystems.freeserve.co.uk writes: << I also have quite a few digital photo's of graves at Walsden churchyard > I have a question regarding the graves. Are burial grounds in the Todmorden area in churchyards? Have these burial records been indexed in to any books? If so, are these available for purchase? Sandy in Montana

In a message dated 5/3/02 5:43:06 AM, Linda.Briggs1@btinternet.com writes: << if those who have "aids" for the Todmorden area could list them when time permits, such as census details, registers, books, etc. >> Yes, this would be most helpful. I am wondering if some UK persons might have knowledge of web sites that contain good history of the Todmorden area. Thanks to all listers who posted book and book source information. This was very helpful. Sandy in Montana

Message forwarded by List Owner - please do not reply to me. Regards, Carol, (Tree Tops) FAMILY TREE & WE’LL MEET AGAIN - Free Query Service: SKY NEWS British TV Text Pages 267 & 268, http://freespace.virgin.net/tree.tops/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: Rosemary Stevenson <rosemary@face4.freeserve.co.uk> To: ENG-TODMORDEN-L@rootsweb.com <ENG-TODMORDEN-L@rootsweb.com> Date: 01 May, 2002 15:00 Subject: {not a subscriber} New subscriber Hello everyone. All my ancestors came from Todmorden so I am pleased the list exists.I have been reading the messages for a couple of weeks and have seen names of interest but no definite links.My main research is the Hollinrake family and I should be delighted to hear of anyone with an interest or any information.The name originated in Todmorden and I am sure that all Hollinrakes are related.I am also researching the following names- Greenwood Lingard Taylor Kershaw Shackleton Marshall Haigh Baron Warburton -all from Todmorden

Thanks to everyone who has supplied names and details of books about Todmorden and Walsden. I am sure this is going to be useful for me in my search for details of my Sutcliffe and Taylor ancestors. Anne

Jack, Thank you for the information. I shall follow it up, Linda