Kent, There do seem to be a very few people who were not included in one census or other, but only very few - I have looked for hundreds of people in the censuses, and so far, there is only one family which I have looked for, and found that they definitely were not anywhere in the census. This was the 1881 census, which has a complete index of names, places etc, so I can be certain that the family was not included, as I have searched just for their christian names, as well as their surnames, address, place of birth etc. I have birth certificates for two of their children in the city of London, one just before, and one just after the 1881 census time, so I can be fairly certain they were in England then, and they weren't wealthy enough to be on holiday abroad, so I think the only explanation is that their names were not included in the half a dozen families who lived at the same address as they did at that time. However, it is worth searching further, if you can. By using census indexes, I have found quite a few families living in different places from the ones I expected, and sometimes with differently spelt names. For example, one family in the 1881 census transcript on CD-Rom was transcribed as 'Luckling', when their name was actually 'Suckling', because the capital 'S' looked very much like an 'L' in the writing of the time. It took me a long time before I thought of searching for this spelling! If you could give us more exact details of the families you are searching for in the 1851 census, perhaps someone might come across the family while they are looking for their own ancestors in the census. Let us know the christian names as well as the surnames, and some idea of their age in 1851, and where any particular ones were born or lived in England, if you know. Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Kirkham" <kkirkham2021@insightbb.com> To: <ENG-TODMORDEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 12:05 AM Subject: [ENG-TOD] Re: ENG-TODMORDEN-D Digest V02 #28 > Thanks for all the brouhaha over copywriting. It alerted me to the existence > of Archive CD Books from which I just ordered 30BP of CD's. > > You would not believe how difficult it is to find original sources about > small parishes such as Witton, Darwen, Kirkham, etc. on this side of the > Atlantic. Hopefully the CDs I ordered will give me a little more information > about these small villages. > > I know my family was in the UK in 1851, but I cannot locate them in the 1851 > census. Were a lot of families overlooked? Were some just too poor to be > counted? > > As an Episcopalian, I understand and agree with the sacramental reasons for > not allowing baptismal and marriage records to be microfilmed and > published. I understand this is the position of the position of the Bishop > of Lancashire. My own parish bans it also. > > I am researching the names of Ormerod, Kirkham and Woodhead in the Witton, > Kirkham, Darwen, Blackpool area. > > Thanks > > Kent Kirkham > Springfield, Illinois, USA

Dear Linda, glad you enjoyed the almanack. Nice to hear about the different houses - yes I do know the ones mentioned. Was Leeming Hall also once the home of William (Billy) Holt the writer - I'm sure he mentioned it in his book "I havn't unpacked yet". I looked at the Blue Pig many years ago with a view to buying it, how about that for a small world. Have you come across Henrietta Scholes and her daughter Mabel Scholes Fielden? She first married John Haigh Fielden (Mary Wrigleys brother), but her second husband was Thomas Leach, and for a time they lived at Thornhill where Mabel "died a painful death" aged 22 years in 1896. Best wishes Andrea ---------- From: Linda[SMTP:Linda.Briggs1@btinternet.com] Sent: 05 May 2002 19:13 To: ENG-TODMORDEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-TOD] 1881 Almanack Andrea, I enjoyed my bedtime reading. It was really odd reading of events happening in the year my grandma was born. She lived to be a very old lady (95) and lived with us for several years before she died. I was 28 when she did die, so I remember her clearly as being a lovely lady with a wonderful dialect that she never lost. The last years she spent in Todmorden before moving to Blackpool she lived with my dad and her uncle Tom Law at Leeming Hall at Millwood on the Halifax Road. The house is still there - perhaps you know it? I have been to visit the present occupiers and they were kind enough to show me round. Tom Law bought it in 1911 when he retired and after his death in 1927 the house was sold as part of his estate. I have happy memories of visiting Walsden with her and my dad when I was a child. We used to visit her old cronies at Bottoms and Ramsden, also Square. I loved the area then, and still do. It was so different from anything I had known in Blackpool. I am fortunate in that most of the properties I have tied to ancestors are still standing., and I have been able to photograph them. This includes a house at Inchfield, now called the Blue Pig and much altered. It was called Knowsley Cottage and was in the Crossley family (tenants) throughout the whole of the 1800's. Roger Birch found me a photo of it as it was and that is my most treasured possession. My Law family owned and built Ramsden Wood Mill which is still there, also most of Square Street and much of the property at Bottoms on Rochdale Road. They also converted Lumbutts Mill from Corn to Cotton before selling to the Fieldens. Way back in the 1700's the Laws farmed at Broad Carr, Spencer House, Mellings and Hazelgreave, all of which are still there, aswell as Deanroyd later in the 1800's. I will copy and send the other book to you this week (I forgot it was a Bank Hol. tomorrow) and look forward to your next email, Linda ==== ENG-TODMORDEN Mailing List ==== Have you used Tree Tops? The Free FAMILY TREE & WE'LL MEET AGAIN SERVICE http://freespace.virgin.net/tree.tops ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Hi Ernest, I think I said in my first posting on the subject. Copyright exists in an original work for 70 years after the death of the author (UK law). Best wishes, Colin Hinson In the village of Blunham in Bedfordshire U.K. Maintainer of the Genuki Yorkshire pages: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ Rare Books on CD: http://www.blunham.demon.co.uk/CDroms/ Baine's & Bulmers directories, History of Craven, Heywood/Northowram, National gazetteer of Great Britain & Ireland, Whelan's York & NRY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear List, I have been following this thread with some interest but so far it has not been made clear when the copyright of original work expires. I thought, in my naive way that it was 50 years from the date of publication or the death of the originator. I am mindful of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SNIP out of print and I doubt whether it has sufficient merit to put into CD form. Any polite observations would be appreciated. Regards, Ernest (Southport, Lancs.)

I have copied you all on my message to Sally, but you will have to let me know if you would like a copy of the doucments mentioned, as I can't attach those. Andrea ---------- From: Andrea Calman[SMTP:ahc@ivysystems.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: 05 May 2002 19:14 To: 'Sally Hinchliffe' Subject: James Fielden of Clough & Sutcliffes Sally, I have attached the will for James Fielden (let me know if you have any luck reading it). He was a picker maker, so you may be in luck with your match. I think James Fielden of Clough was the uncle of Mary Wrigley (nee Fielden), wife of Thomas Wrigley (the man with whom all this research began). I have quite a bit of information gathered about the family of Mary Wrigley and her Walsden 'Fielden' relations. She was the daughter of Robert Fielden of Inchfield Fold. He established the Pickermaker company called Robert Fielden & Sons of Inchfield. Let me know of you would like any info on this sending over. She wasn't related to the biggy Fieldens of the town, but her husband was ("Honest" John Fielden was his Grand Uncle) - hence her husband getting the job as Mill Manager. I have attached a word document with the info I have on the Sutcliffes of Greenhurst Hey and Harley House. I am interested in Wiliam Albert Sutcliffe and family because of Christiana (the daughter of Thomas Wrigley, who built our house "Thornhill"). Christiana lived in Thornhill and later East View (which is the big house just up the lane), the former home of her uncle John Sutcliffe. One person I have been unable to place is James S. Sutcliffe JP, who died in Bacup. I have a feeling that he may have been the brother John Sutcliffe of East View, but I have no evidence as yet. Have you come across him?

Andrea, I enjoyed my bedtime reading. It was really odd reading of events happening in the year my grandma was born. She lived to be a very old lady (95) and lived with us for several years before she died. I was 28 when she did die, so I remember her clearly as being a lovely lady with a wonderful dialect that she never lost. The last years she spent in Todmorden before moving to Blackpool she lived with my dad and her uncle Tom Law at Leeming Hall at Millwood on the Halifax Road. The house is still there - perhaps you know it? I have been to visit the present occupiers and they were kind enough to show me round. Tom Law bought it in 1911 when he retired and after his death in 1927 the house was sold as part of his estate. I have happy memories of visiting Walsden with her and my dad when I was a child. We used to visit her old cronies at Bottoms and Ramsden, also Square. I loved the area then, and still do. It was so different from anything I had known in Blackpool. I am fortunate in that most of the properties I have tied to ancestors are still standing., and I have been able to photograph them. This includes a house at Inchfield, now called the Blue Pig and much altered. It was called Knowsley Cottage and was in the Crossley family (tenants) throughout the whole of the 1800's. Roger Birch found me a photo of it as it was and that is my most treasured possession. My Law family owned and built Ramsden Wood Mill which is still there, also most of Square Street and much of the property at Bottoms on Rochdale Road. They also converted Lumbutts Mill from Corn to Cotton before selling to the Fieldens. Way back in the 1700's the Laws farmed at Broad Carr, Spencer House, Mellings and Hazelgreave, all of which are still there, aswell as Deanroyd later in the 1800's. I will copy and send the other book to you this week (I forgot it was a Bank Hol. tomorrow) and look forward to your next email, Linda

Andrea, Please may I have a copy in Word. Many thanks, Janet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrea Calman" <ahc@ivysystems.freeserve.co.uk> To: <ENG-TODMORDEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:39 PM Subject: [ENG-TOD] 1881 Almanack > I know have available the Events of 1880 as listed in the 1881 Todmorden & Hebden Bridge Historical Almanack. > > I have it in WPD (wordperfect), DOC (word) and TXT (just about anything) formats. I will send it to anyone who wants a copy. > > Andrea. > > > ==== ENG-TODMORDEN Mailing List ==== > Have you used Tree Tops? > The Free FAMILY TREE & WE'LL MEET AGAIN SERVICE > http://freespace.virgin.net/tree.tops > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Thanks for all the brouhaha over copywriting. It alerted me to the existence of Archive CD Books from which I just ordered 30BP of CD's. You would not believe how difficult it is to find original sources about small parishes such as Witton, Darwen, Kirkham, etc. on this side of the Atlantic. Hopefully the CDs I ordered will give me a little more information about these small villages. I know my family was in the UK in 1851, but I cannot locate them in the 1851 census. Were a lot of families overlooked? Were some just too poor to be counted? As an Episcopalian, I understand and agree with the sacramental reasons for not allowing baptismal and marriage records to be microfilmed and published. I understand this is the position of the position of the Bishop of Lancashire. My own parish bans it also. I am researching the names of Ormerod, Kirkham and Woodhead in the Witton, Kirkham, Darwen, Blackpool area. Thanks Kent Kirkham Springfield, Illinois, USA

Linda I left my details with the Border Bookshop in Tod, after about 8 months I got a phone call to say someone had brought some in to sell - so I rushed down and bought all of them!! They are quite rare, and not always complete or in good condition. However, the library in town has a copy of all of them, but you can't take them away. I'll be starting on the 1883 book next. Andrea. ---------- From: Linda[SMTP:Linda.Briggs1@btinternet.com] Sent: 03 May 2002 18:01 To: Andrea Calman Subject: Re: [ENG-TOD] 1881 Almanack Andrea, Many Thanks - my bedtime reading for tonight! My grandma was born in 1880 in Walsden, so this is a nice thing to have in the year of her birth. Where on earth did you get these from? Linda

Dear List, I have been following this thread with some interest but so far it has not been made clear when the copyright of original work expires. I thought, in my naive way that it was 50 years from the date of publication or the death of the originator. I am mindful of the publicity which arose when the copyright expired on the operettas of Gilbert & Sullivan. I recently offered a few of my "old" books to Archive CD Books but the offer was declined as they were said to be still in copyright. All of them had no publication date but are clearly in the 19thC. I have recently come into possession of a book (144 pages of A5 but no Index"Concerning Todmorden Parish", C.G. Ramshaw pub. in 1911 by Fredk.Lee & Co.of Tod. The book is not mine but belongs to my son-in-law's family for whom I am trying to determine their Tod. connections. For various reasons, and especially from a genealogy point of view, it is a frustrating volume but it does contain those snippets and clues which we all rely on even if they are just to point us in the right direction. I am slowly putting together some form of Index so that I can offer this to the list for look-ups. I do not wish to deprive anyone who produces original work to be deprived of their legal rights but at the same time there is information in it which is of some present benefit to List members.The work is long out of print and I doubt whether it has sufficient merit to put into CD form. Any polite observations would be appreciated. Regards, Ernest (Southport, Lancs.)

Hi Linda et al, Under UK law, copyright is automatic on any document that is produced, be it on paper or in electronic files. *It does not have to have a copyright symbol or say "coopyright" on it*. This applies to CD roms, books, magazines etc. You may hear the term "Public Domain" bandied around sometimes - beware! Public domain means that you can copy it (but usually not modify it) and is usually used in the wrong sense to mean "publicly available" as in "to be found on the Internet". For a document (or software) to be "in the Public Domain", it should say so on it, complete with the author's name. If it doesn't say this (or appear in a list or public domain items) then it isn't in the public domain and should not be copied etc., unless it is out of copyright. The fact that Rod has given permission to use snippets from his CDs on the mailing lists and I haven't doesn't mean that he is giving you permission to copy his CDs (and I'm sure he would be most upset and come chasing you very quickly if you did), and there is a fine line between "a small extract" and breach of copyright, and this line is up to the copyright owner to define. If you are in doubt, ask the copyright owner for permission to use his or her data. With regard to the BVI and census discs, I think I have answered the question, but I do believe that it someone wants more than one or two extracts from these that they should be buying the discs - I know that some people (not on this list) have asked for over 20. Mailing lists should exist to allow subscribers access to the expertise of others, not for the subscribers to avoid having to pay for information that others have paid for (IMHO). Incidently, on the Genuki Yorkshire site you will find transcriptions of the following books (among others), so you can do your own look-ups: 1791 Hull Directory 1822 Langdale's Topographical Dictionary of Yorkshire. 1833 A Guide to Richmond (Yorks of course!) 1881 The Northowram Non-conformist Register (1644-1752) 1892 Yorkshire Folk Talk (about Dialect) 1928 The British Workman (about a farm worker) 1822/3 Baines' Yorkshire (both volumes) 1834 Pigots directory of Yorkshire 1837 White's West Yorkshire 1840 White's Directory (East, North and Ainsty) 1853 White's West Yorkshire 1890 Bulmer's North Yorkshire (not the 1891 version which includes Claro) 1891 White's West Yorkshire 1892 Bulmer's East Yorkshire The first section above you will find as complete books. The second section is the books which have been used to build the parish pages (plus Langdales) - the transcriptions for Baines, Bulmers, Whites 1834 are completed (Baine's West is directories only, the gazetteer sections being very similar to Langdales), the remaining transcriptions are in various stages of completion. You are welcome to quote from these on the mailing lists but you must quote the URL of the page you got them from. They remain the copyright of the transcribers. There is of course loads of other information on the site too! (URL in my signature below). ------------------------------------- As an aside: A week ago I received a message, part of which says: >>>>>>>>> I am intending to write a family history based on this ........ family. I would like to get your permission to 1. Include excerpts of this History of Yorkshire, quoted in the text. 2. To possibly include sections or the whole, as an appendix in the book. Book will be distributed to family members, and possibly genealogical libraries. <<<<<<<<< The History of Yorkshire he's talking about is that linked to under "History" on the Genuki Yorkshire main page and is about 80 pages of Bulmer's 1890 North Yorkshire. This transcription represents about 2 days work for two people (double transcription so that a comparison check can be made to remove errors). It seems to me that he's trying to "pack out" his book so that it's a reasonable size? Would you give permission if you had done the work? (You will note that there is no mention of the cost to anyone, nor does he say he's actually going to distribute to genealogical libraries). ------------- Best wishes, Colin Hinson In the village of Blunham in Bedfordshire U.K. Maintainer of the Genuki Yorkshire pages: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ Rare Books on CD: http://www.blunham.demon.co.uk/CDroms/ Baine's & Bulmers directories, History of Craven, Heywood/Northowram, National gazetteer of Great Britain & Ireland, Whelan's York & NRY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone, I am not sure which pieces of information Colin thinks may be breaking copyright. The only CDs mentioned, as far as I am aware, were the Baines Directory and the Return of Owners Land. I bought these CDs from Archive CD Books. Am I breaking copyright by sharing some of the information contained within them? Had I not done this with another excellent CD from Archive CD Books I would have lost them a sale. In that instance, a small snippet on a particular subject did whet an appetite, as John suggests, and the person ordered and received his own copy. Does this copyright extend to the census and BVI disks aswell? If people did not do look ups from these, there would be no point in most mailing lists, as these form a large percentage of the discussions at present. Linda Clitheroe

Hello Rod, Thankyou for this permission. Like you, I think it makes sense and is a reasonable way of advertising. I wouldn't dream of abusing copyright deliberately, and I think you and your team do a brilliant job. Thank you. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Neep" <rod@neep.demon.co.uk> To: <ENG-TODMORDEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 6:44 PM Subject: [ENG-TOD] Lookups and other data Hi Linda Colin is quite within his rights to be claiming and enforcing copyright ownership of his own material. But if you want to help others (either on or off the mailing lists) with their research by quoting small sections or snippets from any of the Archive CD Books CDs, then you and anyone else, have my blessing to do so, and I positively encourage it. Regards Rod Neep Archive CD Books -- ARCHIVE CD BOOKS - A project to reproduce old books on CD for genealogists and pay for the restoration of books in Record Offices, Libraries, etc. Mailing list : CDBOOKS-L@rootsweb.com (for discussions) Weekly News : CDBOOKS-NEWS-L@rootsweb.com (weekly announcements & news) E-mail : enquiries@archivecdbooks.org Web : http://www.archivecdbooks.org ==== ENG-TODMORDEN Mailing List ==== Interested in Anglo-Italian Research? http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

In message <200205041433.IAA01567@pml.rootsweb.com>, Linda <Linda.Briggs1@btinternet.com> writes >Hi everyone, >I am not sure which pieces of information Colin thinks may be breaking >copyright. The only CDs mentioned, as far as I am aware, were the Baines >Directory and the Return of Owners Land. I bought these CDs from Archive CD >Books. Am I breaking copyright by sharing some of the information contained >within them? Hi Linda Colin is quite within his rights to be claiming and enforcing copyright ownership of his own material. But if you want to help others (either on or off the mailing lists) with their research by quoting small sections or snippets from any of the Archive CD Books CDs, then you and anyone else, have my blessing to do so, and I positively encourage it. Regards Rod Neep Archive CD Books -- ARCHIVE CD BOOKS - A project to reproduce old books on CD for genealogists and pay for the restoration of books in Record Offices, Libraries, etc. Mailing list : CDBOOKS-L@rootsweb.com (for discussions) Weekly News : CDBOOKS-NEWS-L@rootsweb.com (weekly announcements & news) E-mail : enquiries@archivecdbooks.org Web : http://www.archivecdbooks.org

Hi Anne, In general, you need to put yourself in the position of the person owning the copyright and ask yourself if someone did what I am thinking of, would I be upset? If the answer is yes, then you shouldn't be doing it. For instance, if someone wrote a summary it could be written in such a way as to destroy the sales of a book (e.g. a detective story summary giving the plot and the way it's solved would almost certainly destroy sales!). On the other hand it could be written in such a way as to increase sales e.g a review published in a newspaper. I am not a lawyer (I'm an electronic design Engineer/Consultant) and so anything I tell you other than what I've investigated with regard to copyright could well be wrong, so you will need to investigate specifics for yourself. There are of course two ways of using copyright: 1. To prevent people copying your work to destroy sales or make a profit for themselves. 2. To prevent people copying your work which has been given free in order to make a profit for themselves (e.g. the data on the Genuki site). You might like to read my Genuki conditions of use page which may well seem well over the top, but I always seem to be having to deal with unreasonable people when I find Genuki data copied. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/conditions.html You would not believe some of the excuses people come up with when I send them an invoice! Best wishes, Colin Hinson In the village of Blunham in Bedfordshire U.K. Maintainer of the Genuki Yorkshire pages: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ Rare Books on CD: http://www.blunham.demon.co.uk/CDroms/ Baine's & Bulmers directories, History of Craven, Heywood/Northowram, National gazetteer of Great Britain & Ireland, Whelan's York & NRY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colin, I have read your note about copyright, but I assume it is OK in the instance of the 1881 Almanack, as I assume the book is pretty old, and is out of print. (Or is it on microfiche or CD?) Some of the books which people have mentioned, are not even available at the British Library. Also, as far as I know, anyone can create an edited summary, or an index where there isn't one in the book, and can send that to anyone: the copyright rules apply to exact, or almost exact, copies of any part of the book (of more than a few words in length), although the author's name and the title of the book should be quoted in the case of summaries etc. Is this correct? Anne

Andrea Thank you for your offer - I also would love a copy. Preference for WORD, but any way that you can. Many thanks. I have not posted my family names yet, and have just been watching the list with interest. My family in this area are for the following names; INGHAM, ROBERTSHAW, NAYLOR and WILKINSON John INGHAM -born about 1800, married about 1830, died before 1866. Father - Richard INGHAM, born 1778, died 29Apr1866 Crawshawbooth Brothers- James, Richard Wife - Olive ROBERTSHAW born ?1812, Hepstonstall. In 1881 living with a PETERS family in Northowram. Died 5May 1887 Morley, Crawshawbooth. Mother of Olive ROBERTSHAW is Mrs Nancy ROBERTSHAW, born 1783, died 28April 1857 Hepstonstall Children to John INGHAM and Olive ROBERTSHAW - Betsy, born 1835, m 16Mar 1855 to James WILKINSON, died 1893 in New Zealand - MaryAnn, born 1837. Married ?PETERS (suggested by 1881 census) William WILKINSON -born 1801, Sowerby, died 1888 -Wife Mary NAYLOR, b Northowram1803, married 1831 Halifax, died 1884 son - James WILKINSON b 1835 Northowram, married Betsey INGHAM, died New Zealand daughter Martha b 1833. 1881 living with parents, unmarried. Also have funeral card of -John HEYWORTH of Prince street, died 1881 interred at Todmorden aged 61 -Ellen WHITWORTH, died 1870 aged 67. Strawberry Bank, Blackburn. Would love to meet other family. Happy to share anything I have. All the best Donnelle Hamilton New Zealand > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrea Calman" <ahc@ivysystems.freeserve.co.uk> > To: <ENG-TODMORDEN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:39 PM > Subject: [ENG-TOD] 1881 Almanack > > > I know have available the Events of 1880 as listed in the 1881 Todmorden & > Hebden Bridge Historical Almanack. > > I have it in WPD (wordperfect), DOC (word) and TXT (just about anything) > formats. I will send it to anyone who wants a copy. > > Andrea. > > > ==== ENG-TODMORDEN Mailing List ==== > Have you used Tree Tops? > The Free FAMILY TREE & WE'LL MEET AGAIN SERVICE > http://freespace.virgin.net/tree.tops > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go > to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== ENG-TODMORDEN Mailing List ==== > Have you used Tree Tops? > The Free FAMILY TREE & WE'LL MEET AGAIN SERVICE > http://freespace.virgin.net/tree.tops > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

In response to Linda's request I have listed some of the books that I've managed to collect over the years. I've noted what Colin has said about copyright and I think these are all old enough to be legal. To the best of my knowledge none of them have been reprinted and most, if not all of them, are quite scarce. A Short History of Todmorden Joshua Holden 1912 Round About Todmorden and its Hills and Dales John Travis 1895 Historical Notes and Personal Reminiscences John Travis 1905 Walsden Families in Olden Times John Travis 1903 Notes (Historical and Biographical) mainly of Todmorden and District John Travis 1896 Todmorden and the Great War J. A. Lee 1922 History of Lanebottom Wesleyan Sunday School, Walsden 1809-1909 Sam Crossley & Ernest Law 1909 Todmorden and Hebden Bridge Historical Almanacks for 1877,1889,1890, 1891, 1892, 1893, 1895, 1896, 1897, 1898, 1899, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1903 1905, 1906, 1907, 1909, 1910, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1914 If anyone would like me to look for any specific information from any of them please let me know. Sally --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 19/04/02

Donnelle, I have an Ingham in my tree who is causing me problems. She is my 3 x gt. grandmother, Nancy Ingham. She was the first wife of Samuel Law of Walsden and was born about 1780 in Walsden. The only Nancy of this time that I can find is one who was baptised at Todmorden, mother Sally Ingham of Walsden, supposed father James Ashworth. I don't suppose you have a connection? Linda Donnelle wrote: I have not posted my family names yet, and have just been watching the list with interest. My family in this area are for the following names; INGHAM, ROBERTSHAW, NAYLOR and WILKINSON

Hi John, Are you sure it is Hutley? Could it be Uttley? I know of no Hutleys in the area - that doesn't mean to say there aren't any! But there are loads of Uttleys. Linda

Hi everyone, I am not sure which pieces of information Colin thinks may be breaking copyright. The only CDs mentioned, as far as I am aware, were the Baines Directory and the Return of Owners Land. I bought these CDs from Archive CD Books. Am I breaking copyright by sharing some of the information contained within them? Had I not done this with another excellent CD from Archive CD Books I would have lost them a sale. In that instance, a small snippet on a particular subject did whet an appetite, as John suggests, and the person ordered and received his own copy. Does this copyright extend to the census and BVI disks aswell? If people did not do look ups from these, there would be no point in most mailing lists, as these form a large percentage of the discussions at present. Linda Clitheroe

I am looking for any help with the family HUTLEY in and around Tod. Can anyone throw any light on it? John

Sorry about the big snip. Hi all, I am a member of the Archive CD Book project, and the list owner and instigator of the Project is Rod Neep. His (and my) beliefs are that if you give someone a snippet of info on a particular person/subject, then that could whet their appetite to buy that CD (Like an advert on TV) John in Doncaster UK (born in Halifax, West Riding) > Hi All, > As someone with a (small) finger in the publishing world and a large finger > in the Internet publishing world, may I urge a note of caution with > look-ups and the advertising thereof. > > At first sight, it's a wonderful idea for everyone to tell each other which > books and CDs they have so that people can obtain the information the need > without having to buy the relevant books/CDs. However......... > > People who publish books and CDs are entitled to expect a return on their > investment in time and money, and that is of course what copyright is all > about.