Hi Lawrence, I think you are right that I need to "bite the bullet" and buy some certificates (unfortunately) :-). Since my email I have discovered that the marriage in 1859 (Freeman to Mary Ann Howard nee Edwards) cannot be related to this couple as the details of the marriage have his father as James and a basket maker - does not match. So I am left with leaving his wife and living with Mary Ann EDWARDS until for whatever reason that married in Australia a few years before they die. Just to add a little more confusion or maybe mis-information when his son Edwin Edward FREEMAN married in 1874 in Australia he listed his father as Edwin (correct) and mother as Amelia Edwards (which is either a confused mixture of the two women or I have it wrong). Our ancestors just like to keep us guessing. Thank you for your opinion and guidance - it does help to have others views. Thank you Pat -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Pearse Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2012 9:31 PM To: Surrey List Subject: Re: [SRY] Bring home the lost and strayed. Hi Pat You seem to have it mostly sorted already, but I wonder if there is more information on any of the certificates which might add to the picture. The death of Amelia Freeman in 1858: Is her age consistent with the 1851 cenus record and/or the age at marriage in 1850? Who reported it? If it was not Edwin, that would lend support to the theory that he was no longer living with her. The 1861 census: what does it give for the ages of Edwin and Mary Ann? Do they accord with the ages on the marriage certificate of 1859? Is Mary Ann shown as a spinster, a widow or what? Where does it show Mary Ann being born? Does that Mary Ann have any connection to Liverpool, where Mary Ann Edwards married in 1852? Is her age consistent with the Mary Ann who married in 1852? Is there any more detail in any of the Australian records (censuses, birth or death certificates?) that helps to confirm their identities or relate them to the people recorded in England? It seems to me most probable that Edwin left his first wife some time after 1851, and took up with Mary Ann, by whom he had 2 children out of wedlock (by no means uncommon, even in Victorian times), although he he was calling her his wife on their birth certificates (I am guessing that bit as I assume from what you say that the children were registered under the name Freeman). He subsequently married her in 1859 after his first wife had died in 1858. Quite why they re-married in Australia in 1881 is another matter - perhaps to get an Australian wedding certificate? Or to renew their vows? Lawrence Pearse > > Edwin is a plasterer and he is in the 1851 census with a wife Amelia > and subsequent marriage appears to be Jun qrt 1850. Amelia Hannah > Walters BISHOP to Edwin FREEMAN Stepney 2 559. > > The 1861 census has him with wife Mary A and four children and his > mother. Details of life in Australia (they emigrated between > 1861-1863) have his wife as Mary Ann EDWARDS. His first two children > appear to have been named with his second wife in mind i.e. Edwin > Edwards FREEMAN 1854 and Mary Ann FREEMAN 1856 but the only possible > death of Amelia Hannah FREEMAN is registered in Dec qrt 1858. > > > To confuse me more it is possible that he married a Mary Ann HOWARD > nee EDWARDS in the December quarter of 1859 (Mary Ann Edwards married > a John Howard in the Sep quarter 1852 Liverpool 8b 255) BUT there is > also a marriage in Victoria Australia for Edwin FREEMAN and Mary Ann > EDWARDS in 1881 > (4112) > > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com . ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message