Re the 1941 census and what happened to it. The question more or less answers itself. This was the real height of the war and people were spread out all over the world or in the case of those working for the war effort throughout the UK. Very dark days indeed. Roads of existing occupied houses, were suddenly no more, people living at their normal current address often spent hours and hours taking underground shelter from the constant bombing of our towns and cities, so were often not-at-home to complete a census. Evacuated children were spread out all across the UK and names, addresses of folk were generally in chaos. However, a "mini-census" was held in 1939 so that everybody could be issued with a National identity card. This was held on Friday 29th September 1939. Hope this helps. Nigel -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of eng-surrey-request@rootsweb.com Sent: 12 November 2009 16:10 To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: ENG-SURREY Digest, Vol 4, Issue 323 If you'd like your Digest format changed, please don't hesitate to contact me, Ann, at the Surrey List Admin address: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com To send a reply, or a new message to the List send it to Eng-Surrey@rootsweb.com When replying to an earlier message please change the Subject line to reflect the content, and trim away unnecessary parts of earlier postings. Always use Plain Text for List Messages - if unsure contact List Admin for help. Today's Topics: 1. Re: National Registration Records 1939 (Paul Eggleton) 2. Re: National Registration Records 1939 (Paul Eggleton) 3. Re: Lest we forget - Rememberance Day (Paul Eggleton) 4. Re: Lest we forget - Rememberance Day (Richard M Brown) 5. Fw: 1931 census and an apology - was: National Registration Records 1939 (Ann Sargeant) 6. Re: Fw: 1931 census and an apology - was: National RegistrationRecords 1939 (Nivard Ovington) 7. Farnham 1914 (Ann Sargeant) 8. Tombstone for Arthur William HELBLING (HILARY BLANFORD) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:21:02 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Eggleton <tenniseggpaul@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [SRY] National Registration Records 1939 To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com, Middlesex List <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com>, "Eng-Surrey@rootsweb.com" <ENG-SURREY@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <246920.82807.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 How interesting - I knew there was no 1941 census for obvious reasons but I had np idea the 1931 census did not survive - do you know what happened to it Ann? I can't wait for the 1951 census to be available as I will be there but then again if they stick tp the 100 year rule I will be 105. Paul ________________________________ From: Ann Sargeant <ann.sargeant@ntlworld.com> To: Middlesex List <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com>; "Eng-Surrey@rootsweb.com" <ENG-SURREY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 11:25:04 PM Subject: [SRY] National Registration Records 1939 Apparently the Information Commissioner has ruled that the 1939 National Registration information must be made publicly available where it relates to deceased persons. The records have hitherto been held at Smedley Hydro (also home of GRO) and were used for the issue of WWII identity cards, Ration Books etc, and then after the war they were used for compilation of the first NHS register and medical card issue. The records will become increasingly important as they help to? fill the gap between the 1921 census and the 1951 census. (The 1931 census has not survived and there was no census in 1941.) I daresay there will be more about this in due course but at the moment, to the best of my knowledge there is nothing official published. Ann List Admin *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at:? Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. ? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:21:02 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Eggleton <tenniseggpaul@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [SRY] National Registration Records 1939 To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com, Middlesex List <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com>, "Eng-Surrey@rootsweb.com" <ENG-SURREY@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <246920.82807.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 How interesting - I knew there was no 1941 census for obvious reasons but I had np idea the 1931 census did not survive - do you know what happened to it Ann? I can't wait for the 1951 census to be available as I will be there but then again if they stick tp the 100 year rule I will be 105. Paul ________________________________ From: Ann Sargeant <ann.sargeant@ntlworld.com> To: Middlesex List <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com>; "Eng-Surrey@rootsweb.com" <ENG-SURREY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 11:25:04 PM Subject: [SRY] National Registration Records 1939 Apparently the Information Commissioner has ruled that the 1939 National Registration information must be made publicly available where it relates to deceased persons. The records have hitherto been held at Smedley Hydro (also home of GRO) and were used for the issue of WWII identity cards, Ration Books etc, and then after the war they were used for compilation of the first NHS register and medical card issue. The records will become increasingly important as they help to? fill the gap between the 1921 census and the 1951 census. (The 1931 census has not survived and there was no census in 1941.) I daresay there will be more about this in due course but at the moment, to the best of my knowledge there is nothing official published. Ann List Admin *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at:? Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. ? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:27:05 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Eggleton <tenniseggpaul@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [SRY] Lest we forget - Rememberance Day To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <178470.85215.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 We often just think of the people who lost their lives - terrible as it was to lose a loved one there were those that survived but were never the same. My own father came back blind in one eye and deaf in one ear from an explosion whilst in Italy, so being born after he came back I never really knew the dynamic man everyone said he was and he died when he was only 48. I was emailing with one of my cousins recently and she told me her father was captured by the Japanese and imprisoned in Singapore for 3 years - I can't bear to think of the suffering he must have endured there. I've tried to find details of both men on the web but cannot find anything. Can anybody advise where I might find details? Paul ________________________________ From: Pam Hillier <pamhillier24@virginbroadband.com.au> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 9:42:25 PM Subject: Re: [SRY] Lest we forget - Rememberance Day beautifully put Michael Pam from Adelaide Australia >I REMEMBER: > > My dad's brother Ted (Edward W. H. Clifton) was a British Commando in WWII > and his brother-in-law, George Elson, was in the RAF Ground Forces and > Barrage Balloon barges on the Thames.? My paternal grandfather, Edward > Clifton, was apparently an Air Raid Warden, [all three former names of > Surrey relevance] and my maternal grandfather, George Bradbury, was first > a courier (on motor bike) till injured and then became a cook, serving the > forces in Italy during WWII.? I also have an "uncle" (really my mom's > cousin by marriage I believe) who was in the Polish underground fighting > the Nazi's; lost a leg, but saved his own and many lives I garner. > > Add to that all the other survivors, particularly the women who kept the > home fires burning, who served and worked in ways they never imagined > would be needed to preserve hearth and home and support their soldiers, > whose love, prayers and hope never failed.? And the children, who > experienced fears and wonders they never invented or desired, who bore the > scars of childish perception of horrible things, and who lived on to > remind and raise the rest of us. > > Blessed be the memory of those who, whether through ignorance or wisdom, > by choice or by force, ultimately gave of themselves so that others could > have the hope of freedom and peace.? "Greater love hath no man than this, > that he lay down his life for his friends." > > > Michael Clifton > Canada *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at:? Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. ? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 05:40:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard M Brown <brownrichardm@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [SRY] Lest we forget - Rememberance Day To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <579934.3562.qm@web26505.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Paul, and all Professor Jay Winter read out a moving essay of his about the war wounded.? Another 12 minute tribute. Do check the Radio 2 pm blog site fior a transcript, or listen on Radio 2 on the?BBC iPlayer. Richard ________________________________ From: Paul Eggleton <tenniseggpaul@sbcglobal.net> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 12 November, 2009 5:27:05 Subject: Re: [SRY] Lest we forget - Rememberance Day We often just think of the people who lost their lives - terrible as it was to lose a loved one there were those that survived but were never the same. My own father came back blind in one eye and deaf in one ear from an explosion whilst in Italy, so being born after he came back I never really knew the dynamic man everyone said he was and he died when he was only 48. I was emailing with one of my cousins recently and she told me her father was captured by the Japanese and imprisoned in Singapore for 3 years - I can't bear to think of the suffering he must have endured there. I've tried to find details of both men on the web but cannot find anything. Can anybody advise where I might find details? Paul :=>< SNIP ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:36:31 -0000 From: "Ann Sargeant" <ann.sargeant@ntlworld.com> Subject: [SRY] Fw: 1931 census and an apology - was: National Registration Records 1939 To: "Eng-Surrey@rootsweb.com" <ENG-SURREY@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <B2899DE9E4BA4DE981B05460775BF602@HomePC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original "Paul " <tenniseggpaul@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >How interesting - I knew there was no 1941 census for obvious reasons but I >had np idea the 1931 >census did not survive - do you know what happened to >it Ann? I can't wait for the 1951 census to be >available as I will be >there but then again if they stick tp the 100 year rule I will be 105. First - I really must apologise for myself committing one of the cardinal sins of Mailing List posting i.e cross posting to more than one List. This is one of the no-nos, as it has administrative implications, and can become very irritating as multiple replies end up on more than one List. My apologies. I've already replied to Paul's specific question elsewhere, but for anyone else here who might be interested, the answer is that the 1931 census was lost in a fire in the storage facility where it was being kept. Ann ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:56:31 -0000 From: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@sky.com> Subject: Re: [SRY] Fw: 1931 census and an apology - was: National RegistrationRecords 1939 To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <88C43C63DB59445F87FAEFA2142D3A8C@claireac3e9bca> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original For those with an interest in the demise of the 1931 census http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=1931_Census Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > "Paul " <tenniseggpaul@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>How interesting - I knew there was no 1941 census for obvious reasons but >>I >>had np idea the 1931 >census did not survive - do you know what happened >>to >>it Ann? I can't wait for the 1951 census to be >available as I will be >>there but then again if they stick tp the 100 year rule I will be 105. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:02:15 -0000 From: "Ann Sargeant" <ann.sargeant@ntlworld.com> Subject: [SRY] Farnham 1914 To: "Eng-Surrey@rootsweb.com" <ENG-SURREY@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <61DE1E713F9F45098A14F89CA9016806@HomePC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Some extracts from Ewbank-Smith's 'Farnham in War and Peace' seem an appropriate and hopefully interesting conclusion to the Remembrance Day postings and is probably typical of what was happening in towns and villages throughout Surrey and the rest of the Country at the outbreak of war in 1914. The local Farnham newspaper of 15 August 1914 reported on the 'exodus' of young men volunteers. Names included: Etienne ROBO the Roman Catholic priest who went to join the French army but returned later after being rejected as unfit. HC PATRICK brother of Sidney PATRICK Frank SWAIN of Swain and Jones motoring business Lionel MITCHELL son of Thomas MITCHELL EF CRUNDWELL solicitor Rev Neville TALBOT and Rev Edward TALBOT sons of the Bishop of Winchester (as army chaplains) - Gilbert the youngest son applied for a commission in the Rifle Brigade. GRR COMBE son of Richard COMBE of Frensham Tommy SIMMONDS son of the local Police Superintendent Mr LANGHAM (propieter of the newspaper). Harold FALKNER The Royal West Surrey Regiment's Territorials of some 130 men had been recalled from summer camp to mobilise at their battalion HQ in Guildford. Forty three Farnham men had already signed on at the Corn Exchange - within the coming month their number grew to 328 aged between 18 and 30. Just one month later the reports of casualties started to reach home: Lt Cdr BARTELLOT HH SHORT William PARSONS of Castle Street, Charles PARFITT, of Fairthorne Terrace Major CHRYSTIE son of Colonel Geo CHRYSTIE RS JACKSON and AE ROBINSON - both able seamen of Babbs Mead, on board the Bulwark when she was blown up in Sheerness Harbour. Major BACON and Private T CUFF both of Upper Hale and later Gilbert TALBOT (see above) was killed in 1915. (Toc H became his lasting memorial.) Within the month Waverley Abbey House was annexed to the nearby Cambridge Military Hospital just along the road at Aldershot and the first casualties arrived there on 24 September. This is just a very small sample of how the town of Farnham was affected early in 1914 - who then could have imagined what was to follow. Ann ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:09:37 +0000 (GMT) From: HILARY BLANFORD <hilaryblanford@btinternet.com> Subject: [SRY] Tombstone for Arthur William HELBLING To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <639073.44374.qm@web86709.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Anyone own this gentleman? If you do please would you pass on your thanks to Jean-Marie - address at the bottom of this email Hilary --- On Thu, 12/11/09, HILARY BLANFORD <hilaryblanford@btinternet.com> wrote: > From: HILARY BLANFORD <hilaryblanford@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [LON] Fw: [CI] Tombstone > To: LONDON@rootsweb.com, "Phil and Kathryn" <trinphil@tiscali.co.uk> > Date: Thursday, 12 November, 2009, 16:01 > Thank you for this.? Here is his > birth registration.? Technically I suppose he is > Surrey, but I'll send it on. > > Births Mar 1865???(>99%) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >? > Helbling? Arthur William? ? Wandsworth? > 1d 464 > > Hilay > --- On Thu, 12/11/09, Phil and Kathryn <trinphil@tiscali.co.uk> > wrote: > > > From: Phil and Kathryn <trinphil@tiscali.co.uk> > > Subject: [LON] Fw: [CI] Tombstone > > To: LONDON@rootsweb.com > > Date: Thursday, 12 November, 2009, 13:15 > > I hope it's ok to pass this message on to the London > list, in the hope that he belongs to someone. I sent it to the wrong list > > yesterday, so apologies if I have the wrong one again. > > > > Best wishes > > Kathryn > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jean-Marie DESSAUX" <jmdparadis@orange.fr> > > To: <channel-islands@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:37 PM > > Subject: [CI] Tombstone > > > Good evening listers ? A friend living in the south of France was visiting the cemetery of Marseille to try to find a grave for me and while doing so she came across a small grave with these words on the tombstone > > > ?? In memory of Arthur William HELBLING > > born in London? 20th January 1866. > > > Died at Marseille 18th May 1913 > > > > > She was so moved by this small grave that she sent the text to me asking me if I could transmit this to someone. > > > > > >? Since I don't know who to send it to , I send it > > to my group and if someone could send this in a group in London?may > be ... ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > > ? ? Lots of thanks for this; ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > > ? ? ? ???Faithfully > > yours? ? ? Jean-Marie ------------------------------ To contact the ENG-SURREY list administrator, send an email to ENG-SURREY-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the ENG-SURREY mailing list, send an email to ENG-SURREY@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of ENG-SURREY Digest, Vol 4, Issue 323 ******************************************