Dear Hilary, Could you explain the TNA site please? I have a copy of the will that you mention. I used this will as one of my "starting points";I subscribed to the Jamaica List hoping to find some clues, without success. There is a "twist" to this family....from another website I have found that the first child of Henry and Mary Gannell was adopted by Sarah Thompson (who became Countess Rumford, an American- At the time of their marriage Mary was a servant to Sarah Thompson and they were living at 43 Brompton Row, Kensington? (London?). However, I have found the marriage for Mary and Henry in the Surrey Marriage Register where they were married by Licence. I have wondered if Henry and Mary changed their names to Thompson because of their connection to Sarah Thompson. In the will they are both referred to by both names, and seemingly, using one name for England and one name for Jamaica. According to dates in the will he died between Nov 1848 and February 1851. His death as Henry Gannell doesn't appear in the Free BDM index. Mary died in 1872 in Chelsea. Thank you for your interest, Barbara Melbourne -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of HILARY BLANFORD Sent: Friday, 6 November 2009 12:50 AM To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: [SRY] Henry Gannell Hallo Barbara There is an intriguing entry on TNA site in the documents online - Wills proven before 1858 Description Will of Henry George Thompson otherwise Henry Gannell of Jamaica Date 25 February 1851 So perhaps this is your man and he was in Jamaica when the 1841 census was taken.  And if he is your man, perhaps he was buried as Henry George Thompson - death does not come up on FreeBMD so he might have died in Jamaica. Have you asked West Surrey fhs if their new burial index covers the dates and area in which you are interested - or perhaps they offer a look up service.  Have you found the baptisms for Henry's children to see what occupation was given for Henry?  This could be useful to distinguish between the various Henry's you have found. Mary Gannnell was born c 1807 so the suggested birth /baptism for Henry in 1805 seems reasonable. The images from the registers can be downloaded from TNA site Home > Births, deaths and marriages page> click on research guides at right hand side of page> BMD in England>then whatever it says about non conformist records.  Then search for Henry. There are 3 entries for a Henry Gannell, all 1805, probably all referring to the same child.  TNA explanatory notes about the different RGs are very helpful RG5 36 is for the parchment set of records from Dr Williams Library, certificates 1251  - 1500 Births RG4 461 is for Dr Williams Register of certificates 1 - 4429 dates 1805 - 1812 Births RG4 4279 is the register of baptisms from the Ebenezer Chapel 1804 - 1827 Unless anyone from the list can offer further confirmation on this I'd go for the first option because that looks as though it is the original registration document, complete with the witnesses' signatures and if you are lucky, the address and occupation of Henry's father. You can work out his parentage and the name of his maternal grandfather from the search results.  If you then enter William Gannell into the search page you will find Henry's siblings.  From their birth patterns it looks as though William might have remarried and had a second family, although it is possible that there were 2 Williams. Tracing the siblings might give you further information that fixes your Henry/William relationship eg you might find that one of Mary's neighbours in the 1841 census is a married sister of Henry son of William, or that one of Henry's children is staying with an aunt or uncle, or marries a cousin, or you find a the signature of one of them on a document somewhere. I have just found ISABELLA FRANCES GANNELL Christening:     21 DEC 1833      Saint John The Baptist, Croydon, Surrey, England Father:     HENRY GANNELL      Mother:     MARY ANN and Henry junior 20 NOV 1835   Saint John The Baptist, Croydon, Surrey, England But no sign of Edwin. And if the baptismal records show that Henry was a silversmith then an email to the Goldsmiths enquiring about his apprenticeship might provide you with the name of his father. If Henry is working for another silversmith he is very unlikely to have his own mark. Hilary Barbara Hunt wrote: > > > > I am new to this list. I am searching for the death/burial of HENRY GANNELL, > possibly in Croydon, > > Surrey between 1835-1841. > > > > In the 1841 Census, his wife Mary Gannell was living > with their three > > children, Edwin, Isabella and Henry in High Street > South, Croydon. > > > > Any information appreciated,   > > Thank you, > > Barbara > > Australia > > SNIP > I also have a marriage entry for Henry Gannell and Mary > Grove in Surrey in > 1825....I now need to find other information to help me > find their parents. > I have a death date and place for Mary. I can't find a > death/burial anywhere > for Henry. > > Barbara   > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:05:14 +1030 > From: Anne Chambers <anne.chambers@bigpond.com> > Subject: Re: [SRY] Death/Burial of HENRY GANNELL > To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <4AF27222.4040104@bigpond.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed > > this is a possibility for Henry's baptism - it's a fairly > uncommon name > HENRY GANNELL      Pedigree >        Male >           >             > Event(s): >     Birth:      > 13 APR 1805       >     Christening:      > 18 JUL 1805       Ebenezer > Chapel Market Street Mayfair Independent, Westminster, > London, England >     Death: >     Burial: >             > Parents: >        Father:  >     WILLIAM GANNELL     > Family >        Mother:  >     MARTHA     >     > Messages: >     Extracted birth or christening record > for the locality listed in the record. The source records > are usually > arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date. >             >     > Source Information: >     Batch No.:      > Dates:      Source Call No.:  >     Type:      Printout > Call No.:      Type: >     C097441 > > and there's a bit more information on Ancestry: > Source Citation: Place: St George Hanover Square, > Westminster, London, Eng; Collection: Dr. William's Library; > > Nonconformist Registers; Date Range:  1804 - 1831; > Film Number: 813812. > Name:      Henry Gannell > Gender:     Male > Birth Date:     13 Apr 1805 > Christening Place:     St George Hanover > Square, Westminster, London, Eng > Father's Name:     William Gannell > Mother's Name:     Martha > Maternal Grandfather's Name:     Thomas > Hasler > Maternal Grandmother's Name:     Elizabeth   > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:32:52 +1030 > From: Anne Chambers <anne.chambers@bigpond.com> >  > > http://www.homeofourfathers.com/lisbeth/genealogytreasuryt.htm > says he was a silversmith - is this correct ?  If so, > the Silversmiths Guild might have information. > > > and there's a bit about him here > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bfhs/house.html > "E-mail from Joy Gannell  (JJ Family Tree) - > Information from Joy Gannell, stating that Henry Gannell's > father > was William; his son was born in 1805. Henry was the father > of our Edwin and Emma." > > I thought there might have been a death notice, so I > checked the Times and the 19th Century British Library > Newpapers databases - there's no reference to him but there > is  his son's marriage announcement. > > Anne   > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 21:27:32 +1100 > From: "Barbara Hunt" <bjhunt@ozemail.com.au> > Subject: Re: [SRY] Death/Burial of HENRY GANNELL > To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000301ca5e02$9cc4a900$d64dfb00$@com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain;    > charset="us-ascii" > > Anne, > I have come across all of this information-and have been > unable to confirm > it. I have found no reference to Henry being a silversmith > although I have > searched the Silversmiths Hallmarks (online) without > success. > I have found a few "Henry Gannell's" who could fit the > bill. > I need written proof of relationships....and there is no > evidence that > William Gannell was Henry's father. > Thank you for your interest, > Barbara > SNIP > Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:38:38 -0000 > From: "michael" <michael@allbrook.com> > Subject: Re: [SRY] Death/Burial of HENRY GANNELL > To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <3B34371007E2441EBB351BE50586CC36@allbrookpc1> > Content-Type: text/plain;    > charset="us-ascii" > > Have you checked the archives of the Goldsmiths Company > which is one of the > Twelve Great Livery Companies of the City of London. It has > been responsible > for hallmarking since 1300 and, today, operates Assay > Office London and > supports the craft and industry of silversmithing and > precious metal > jewellery. > http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/home/ > > Michael Allbrook > > > > > *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Barbara, The TNA to which you refer is The National Archives.  This links to the home page.  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/  There are a number of wills on line, and it is possible to download documents on line for a charge.  The charge is modest. The site is brilliant, well worth exploring.  I advise you read about how the catalogue is made up - how the reference numbers work etc.  I still find the referencing a trifle confusing, and I am sure I am not alone there.  Apart from that, there are excellent help brochures which can be downloaded for free. Sorry, I am not Hilary! :-)) With best wishes  Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. ________________________________ From: Barbara Hunt <bjhunt@ozemail.com.au> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 5 November, 2009 22:52:28 Subject: Re: [SRY] Henry Gannell Dear Hilary, Could you explain the TNA site please? I have a copy of the will that you mention. I used this will as one of my "starting points";I subscribed to the Jamaica List hoping to find some clues, without success. There is a "twist" to this family....from another website I have found that the first child of Henry and Mary Gannell was adopted by Sarah Thompson (who became Countess Rumford, an American- At the time of their marriage Mary was a servant to Sarah Thompson and they were living at 43 Brompton Row, Kensington? (London?). However, I have found the marriage for Mary and Henry in the Surrey Marriage Register where they were married by Licence. I have wondered if Henry and Mary changed their names to Thompson because of their connection to Sarah Thompson. In the will they are both referred to by both names, and seemingly, using one name for England and one name for Jamaica. According to dates in the will he died between Nov 1848 and February 1851. His death as Henry Gannell doesn't appear in the Free BDM index. Mary died in 1872 in Chelsea. Thank you for your interest, Barbara Melbourne -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com Subject: [SRY] Henry Gannell Hallo Barbara There is an intriguing entry on TNA site in the documents online - Wills proven before 1858

Barbara, The Index to Death Duty registers is often helpful in this sort of case. The relevant entry reads: Testator: Gannell, Henry, otherwise Henry George Thompson Abode: Island of Jamaica Executor: Mary A Gannell, 83 Thornton Heath Surrey Court: PC Register: 1 Folio: 98? N.E. [= no entry, indicating that no duty was paid] The implication is that he died in Jamaica. The Death Duty Register itself can be seen at the National Archives (but they will no longer supply digital images online from this source). The entry should give his date of death, but as no duty was paid there will not be much information to add to what you will already know from the will. HTH Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Hunt There is a "twist" to this family....from another website I have found that the first child of Henry and Mary Gannell was adopted by Sarah Thompson (who became Countess Rumford, an American- At the time of their marriage Mary was a servant to Sarah Thompson and they were living at 43 Brompton Row, Kensington? (London?). However, I have found the marriage for Mary and Henry in the Surrey Marriage Register where they were married by Licence. I have wondered if Henry and Mary changed their names to Thompson because of their connection to Sarah Thompson. In the will they are both referred to by both names, and seemingly, using one name for England and one name for Jamaica. According to dates in the will he died between Nov 1848 and February 1851. His death as Henry Gannell doesn't appear in the Free BDM index. Mary died in 1872 in Chelsea.