Hallo Jason I searched the new Ancestry records for blank first name and Mart*n Surname, father Richard child born Bermondsey Surrey England.   This produced Rachel daughter of Richard and Rachal baptised Sep 3rd 1815. Father a bricklayer living in Bermondsey Street, so he could be the father of your John.   Maybe he became a builder or maybe John exaggerated his father's status on his marriage certificate to impress the in laws.   If you have access to the records and search for Rachel you will find 2 entries.  One is in the printed baptismal register register, the other is in the 'rough register'.  If you start with the latter you can click back to the 1915 register at the top of the entry from the image view, find the list of registers available and then do a manual search forwards in case your John is in there but was missed from the transcription.  You can also find these registers from the Southwark listings.  The 'rough registers' tend to be more accurate, and in the case of St MM Bermondsey, they include the date of birth in the register of baptisms.  The date of birth is not shown in the printed register of baptisms.   If you still can't find him it may be worth looking at the Bishop's Transcripts for 1820 -1824 period - his birth appears to be round 1822.   You may have discovered this already, but Saint Mary Magdalen at Bermondsey does not have an e on the end of Magdalen.  It is often mis-spelt including in the historic Ancestry records, so you may need to use both spellings when searching for your family.       Hilary   Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 08:52:47 -0700 From: Jason Austin <jason.austin@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: [SRY] Was Ancestry New Records  now MARTIN To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <4ACB67CF.1050801@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Hilary Thanks for asking - I hadn't meant for people to search for me, I was looking for ideas where to look myself.  But having said that I will gratefully accept any help given! His name is John AUSTIN.   He was married in 1846 at Islington to Ann Jane POLLARD, daughter of the painter Robert James POLLARD.  Their marriage certificate says his father was Richard AUSTIN, builder. The 1851 census says he was born in Bermondsey.  I can't find him in the 1861 or 1871 census returns.  He died in April 1872. He was a solicitors clerk.  I believe he was a cousin of the London developer Henry de Bruno AUSTIN and that he may have worked for him in the 1850's as a builders clerk.  Around that time he began giving his children the middle name "de Bruno".   If he was related to Henry de Bruno Austin then his family would have come from Devon. These are the notes I have about him from various birth BMD certificates that show his addresses and occupation. April 4 1846             2 Miltons Place, Islington, Middlesex  (marriage cert) "Clerk" 1851 census            42 Denton Place, St. James, Clerkenwell                                 John Austin, head, 29, accountant,  Bermondsey, Surrey                                 Ann J.    wife           24  Dress maker      Holloway, Middlesex                                 Amelia J. dau            3                     Islington, Middlesex                                 Alfred J.   son            1                    St. James, Clerkenwell                                 Ellen Bannergan  serv 25 House servant  Skibbereen, Cork                               October 19, 1854     43 Cleveland Square, Paddington/Islington, Middlesex   "Commercial Clerk"    (Emma's birth certificate) November 2, 1856  2 Cloudesley Street  Islington West, Middlesex    "Builders Clerk"    (Arthur's birth certificate) August 30, 1859      15 Queens Head Lane, Islington, Middlesex      "Solicitors Common Law Clerk"   (Richard's birth certificate)                                (not here at the 1861 census - occupied by a bootmaker)                             December 15, 1861      5 Stanley Road, Islington, Middlesex      "Proctors Clerk"    (Florences' birth  certificate) January 26, 1864    65 Mildmay Street, Islington   "Solicitors Clerk"  (Arthur's death certificate) March 5, 1864         4 Spencer Road, Albert Town, Middlesex    "Solicitors Clerk"   (Johns (Jnr) birth certificate) March 3, 1865         4 Spencer Road, Albert Town, Middlesex    "Solicitors Clerk"   (John (Jnr) death cert) January 3, 1866    4 Spencer Road, Albert Town, Middlesex  "Solicitors Clerk"  (Catherine Ada's birth certificate) February 15, 1867    6 John's Terrace, Islington, Middlesex    "Solicitors Clerk"  (Emma's death certificate)                                (house occupied by a pianoforte maker in  1871)                               December 5 1868    3 Markfield Terrace, Tottenham, Edmonton, Middlesex    "Solicitor's Clerk"   (Ann Jane's death  certificate)                                (3 Markfield Terrace was unoccupied at the 1871 census)                                 Note - Markfield is one street from Denton Place where they lived at the 1851 census. December 9, 1868    3 Markfield Terrace Tottenham, Edmonton, Middlesex "Solicitors clerk" - death certificate of Catherine Ada Austin At the 1871 census his daughter Florence, 9, was living with her Aunt Catherine (Pollard) Wray in Streatham, Surrey April 7, 1872           107 Essex Road, Islington, Middlesex  His death certificate   "Solicitor's Clerk"        (Frederick Brett, hairdresser, 54, was living here at the 1871 census)       Many thanks! Jason HILARY BLANFORD wrote: >Jason >You don't help us to help you by not giving the names of John's parents.  Family Search has the 1824 baptism of a John William Martin son of John and Ann at St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey.   If that is not him - > >See West Surrey FHS site for details of their pre 1837  birth and marriage CDs not included in the IGI. > >See FamilySearch site/ Library/ Catalog/ Place search to see what they have for Bermondsey > >See TNA site for non conformist births and down loadable images from Dr Williams Library and other non conformist chapels > >Hilary > > Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:59:17 -0700 >From: Jason Austin <jason.austin@shaw.ca> >Subject: Re: [SRY] ancestry new records >To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <4ACA9665.7080904@shaw.ca> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >  but I STILL can't find my elusive John Austin, >supposedly born in Bermondsey in 1822 ....!     That man is going to >have a lot to answer for when I finally meet him ..... lol > >Can anyone advise me what to try now?   The 1851 census says he was born >in Bermondsey, and he was buried in Abney Park so by his death at least >he was a dissenter.   If his parents were dissenters was there a baptism >or other ritual that may have been recorded? > >Thanks > >Jason >  >Message-ID: <1BF1A741D5A343E6B677697D5D73B5B8@Daphne1> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >    reply-type=original > >Have you thought of Maze Pond Chapel, just by Guys Hospital. >Daphne.   Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 06:00:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Fionnghal <fionnghalnicphadraig@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [SRY] ancestry new records - John Austin To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <934676.29177.qm@web24609.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 If he and his family were dissenters, it is possible they aren't amongst Ancestry's offerings which look to be mainly Established church.? None of my Catholic root are to be found, though they were all Londoners.? 200yrs of them and not a single birth or death coming up and the one marriage only that appears was because the man wasn't Catholic.? However, the kids grew up Catholic and they're missing.? :-(? Many of them had really helpful names like Clark/e - so easily distinguishable from the thousands of other Clark/s on FreeBMD. :-/ I could cry. So maybe that's the problem.? Have you tried http://www.parishregister.com/searchpage.asp They have Bermondsey records: St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey 1782 to 1812 Entries:13,606 Completion:100% [CD available]     St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey 1813 to 1822 Entries:4,791 Completion: 100% [CD available]     St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey 1822 to 1829 Entries:4,783 Completion:100% [CD available] or you can do a search for likely individuals and purchase those without getting a cd. 'Find my Past' also lists some.  You don't mention when he was born or any other details.  Someone may be able to help you if you provide more data. le durachd Fionnghal > An cestry's  Fionnghal wrote: >If he and his family were dissenters, it is possible they aren't amongst Ancestry's offerings which look to be mainly Established church.  None of my Catholic root are to be found, though they were all Londoners.  200yrs of them and not a single birth or death coming up and the one marriage only that appears was because the man wasn't Catholic.   >So maybe that's the problem.  >Have you tried >http://www.parishregister.com/searchpage.asp >They have Bermondsey records: >St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey 1782 to 1812 >Entries:13,606 Completion:100% [CD available] >    St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey 1813 to 1822 >Entries:4,791 Completion: 100% [CD available] >    St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey 1822 to 1829 >Entries:4,783 Completion:100% [CD available] > >or you can do a search for likely individuals and purchase those without getting a cd. > >'Find my Past' also lists some.  >You don't mention when he was born or any other details.  Someone may be able to help you if you provide more data. > >le durachd > >Fionnghal >    Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 19:51:13 +0100 From: "Caroline Bradford" <caroline.bradford@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [SRY] ancestry new records - John Austin To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <008b01ca46b5$fab0b4f0$f0121ed0$@bradford@btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1" You are correct that the parish registers involved in the recent Ancestry/LMA/Guildhall project are just that - *parish* registers.  In other words, CofE.  Many non-parochial (i.e. non-parish, i.e. non-conformist) registers ended up at the National Archives and a lot of these are now available via www.thegenealogist.co.uk (who won the contract to digitise and offer online access).  The cost per record is pretty steep, and the cost for an image is steeper still, but the search facility is good and searching the index is free.  If you think you might need to spend some time with these records, a shortish subscription might be better value, particularly as they have a great deal of other material, including *fully transcribed* censuses (i.e. occupations, addresses etc transcribed and therefore searchable), and a growing number of PCC wills available for download (credit-free on many subs).  This latter facility can be very useful if you are trying to piece together a complex family through a large number of wills - the 3.50 GBP cost via TNA is very reasonable, but when you put the 6th one of the evening in your basket it can be a bit painful! Catholics are a nightmare (from the family history point of view!).  The only large scale source of any information from their registers is the Catholic National Library at Farnborough which has transcripts of quite a few churches.  But from 1754 until 1837, Catholics would have had to marry in a CofE church, so you ought to be able to find them somewhere. Hope this helps Caroline