Dear all, I am working on a family history publication of the MARTERs and MARTYRs of Surrey and Kent and have just commenced a chapter on coats of arms. But living in the USA in a relatively small town in Texas, (de-camped from UK in 2008) I am having trouble properly researching this area. To date, I have spent a huge numbers of hours trawling the Internet with some modicum of success and found reference to three crests described as follows: "MARTYR, Eng. An ostrich’s head, argent, collared, or, between two palm branches, vert." Earliest date for blazon is 1817 with the publication of Volume I of Alexander Deuchar’s British Crests. "MARTER, on a chapeau, gu., turned up erm., an eagle rising, ppr." Earliest date for blazon is 1851, with the publication of Volume II of J. P. Elven’s The Book of Family Crests. "MARTYR, a griffin segreant, or, wings indorsed, ar., (holding a rose, gu., stalked and leaved, ppr.)" Earliest date for blazon is 1854, with the issue of Elven’s The Book of Family Crests, Seventh Edition, Enlarged. These and many other references were all found at Internet Archives or Google eBooks but I am looking for any earlier descriptions of these crests that may be available, or indeed any other MARTER or MARTYR crests. Does anyone have reference to books that might help me to push blazon dates back further please? I have also noticed that some of the volumes have a single page inside colourfully illustrating either the full title of the volume or just a part of the title. Would these have been part of the original volume of added by an enthusiastic owner? Happy to scan these images and send to anyone who might be able to, or want to, help me out. Tony Marter

Hallo Try the college of arms in London. They will tell you who they belong to. They do not sound real. Jean Hunter Kent [email protected] wrote: > Dear all, > > I am working on a family history publication of the MARTERs and MARTYRs of Surrey and Kent and have just commenced a chapter on coats of arms. But living in the USA in a relatively small town in Texas, (de-camped from UK in 2008) I am having trouble properly researching this area. To date, I have spent a huge numbers of hours trawling the Internet with some modicum of success and found reference to three crests described as follows: > > "MARTYR, Eng. An ostrich’s head, argent, collared, or, between two palm branches, vert." Earliest date for blazon is 1817 with the publication of Volume I of Alexander Deuchar’s British Crests. > > "MARTER, on a chapeau, gu., turned up erm., an eagle rising, ppr." Earliest date for blazon is 1851, with the publication of Volume II of J. P. Elven’s The Book of Family Crests. > > "MARTYR, a griffin segreant, or, wings indorsed, ar., (holding a rose, gu., stalked and leaved, ppr.)" Earliest date for blazon is 1854, with the issue of Elven’s The Book of Family Crests, Seventh Edition, Enlarged. > > These and many other references were all found at Internet Archives or Google eBooks but I am looking for any earlier descriptions of these crests that may be available, or indeed any other MARTER or MARTYR crests. Does anyone have reference to books that might help me to push blazon dates back further please? > > I have also noticed that some of the volumes have a single page inside colourfully illustrating either the full title of the volume or just a part of the title. Would these have been part of the original volume of added by an enthusiastic owner? Happy to scan these images and send to anyone who might be able to, or want to, help me out. > > Tony Marter

In England there is no such thing as a 'Family' crest. Coats of arms were awarded to individuals and can be passed down like other property to individuals. The fact you may share a name with sombody who, in the past, was awarded a coat of arms does not by any means mean you have an automatic right to lay claim to that item. Not even if you can prove some form of direct descendency from them. On 07/27/2011 11:57 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Dear all, > > I am working on a family history publication of the MARTERs and MARTYRs of Surrey and Kent and have just commenced a chapter on coats of arms. But living in the USA in a relatively small town in Texas, (de-camped from UK in 2008) I am having trouble properly researching this area. To date, I have spent a huge numbers of hours trawling the Internet with some modicum of success and found reference to three crests described as follows: > > "MARTYR, Eng. An ostrich’s head, argent, collared, or, between two palm branches, vert." Earliest date for blazon is 1817 with the publication of Volume I of Alexander Deuchar’s British Crests. > > "MARTER, on a chapeau, gu., turned up erm., an eagle rising, ppr." Earliest date for blazon is 1851, with the publication of Volume II of J. P. Elven’s The Book of Family Crests. > > "MARTYR, a griffin segreant, or, wings indorsed, ar., (holding a rose, gu., stalked and leaved, ppr.)" Earliest date for blazon is 1854, with the issue of Elven’s The Book of Family Crests, Seventh Edition, Enlarged. > > These and many other references were all found at Internet Archives or Google eBooks but I am looking for any earlier descriptions of these crests that may be available, or indeed any other MARTER or MARTYR crests. Does anyone have reference to books that might help me to push blazon dates back further please? > > I have also noticed that some of the volumes have a single page inside colourfully illustrating either the full title of the volume or just a part of the title. Would these have been part of the original volume of added by an enthusiastic owner? Happy to scan these images and send to anyone who might be able to, or want to, help me out. > > Tony Marter > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To expound on Mikes statement. I have lived in the USA for a number of years and have tried to explain to people here that Coats of Arms are not given to a particular surname but to an individual and possibly their direct line. Sorry to say a lot of Americans can not seem to grasp this concept. There are also a lot of bogus companies who will sell you a "family crest" even at some state fairs I have attended and the number of people I see buying them. I even went to the trouble and expense of seeing what they would send for my surname. Surprise surprise I received one, but to my family members on this site....no we do not and have never had a Coat of Arms. Mike I hope your explanation helps some of overseas cousins understand how this works. Elizabeth > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 21:17:49 -0400 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [SRY] Family Crests MARTER and MARTYR > > In England there is no such thing as a 'Family' crest. > Coats of arms were awarded to individuals and can be passed down like > other property to individuals. > The fact you may share a name with sombody who, in the past, was awarded > a coat of arms does not by any means mean you have an automatic right to > lay claim to that item. Not even if you can prove some form of direct > descendency from them. > > > On 07/27/2011 11:57 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > I am working on a family history publication of the MARTERs and MARTYRs of Surrey and Kent and have just commenced a chapter on coats of arms. But living in the USA in a relatively small town in Texas, (de-camped from UK in 2008) I am having trouble properly researching this area. To date, I have spent a huge numbers of hours trawling the Internet with some modicum of success and found reference to three crests described as follows: > > > > "MARTYR, Eng. An ostrich’s head, argent, collared, or, between two palm branches, vert." Earliest date for blazon is 1817 with the publication of Volume I of Alexander Deuchar’s British Crests. > > > > "MARTER, on a chapeau, gu., turned up erm., an eagle rising, ppr." Earliest date for blazon is 1851, with the publication of Volume II of J. P. Elven’s The Book of Family Crests. > > > > "MARTYR, a griffin segreant, or, wings indorsed, ar., (holding a rose, gu., stalked and leaved, ppr.)" Earliest date for blazon is 1854, with the issue of Elven’s The Book of Family Crests, Seventh Edition, Enlarged. > > > > These and many other references were all found at Internet Archives or Google eBooks but I am looking for any earlier descriptions of these crests that may be available, or indeed any other MARTER or MARTYR crests. Does anyone have reference to books that might help me to push blazon dates back further please? > > > > I have also noticed that some of the volumes have a single page inside colourfully illustrating either the full title of the volume or just a part of the title. Would these have been part of the original volume of added by an enthusiastic owner? Happy to scan these images and send to anyone who might be able to, or want to, help me out. > > > > Tony Marter > > *************************************** > > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message