Thanks Charani, Good to know I'm not losing it ..........yet. Marg >From the Beautiful British Columbia Cariboo Region, Canada Charani wrote: You're not wrong :)) The only Twickenham I know is now Middlesex and on the wrong side to be in Kent. Margaret Cambridge wrote: > Hi Nigel, > What do you already have on Zachariah? Do you have the baptism as I have > come across one 14 June 1812 > St Mary the Virgin, Twickenham, Kent that is recorded as Zachariah > daughter > of Hannah Chalk > > I always thought Twickenham was in Surrey Reg Dist then later Middlesex > but > I've been known to be wrong about some things...-))

Hi Nigel, What do you already have on Zachariah? Do you have the baptism as I have come across one 14 June 1812 St Mary the Virgin, Twickenham, Kent that is recorded as Zachariah daughter of Hannah Chalk I always thought Twickenham was in Surrey Reg Dist then later Middlesex but I've been known to be wrong about some things...-)) Marg >From the Beautiful British Columbia Cariboo Region, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chalk" <chalkie_at_5days@ntlworld.com> Subject: [SRY] CHALK(E) Families of Surrey Hi I am new to this list and am researching the CHALK(E) families of Surrey. One in particular I am looking for is the family of Zachariah CHALK born abt 1811 Southwark, he is shipped to Tasmania in 1828. Nothing on IGI. Would also like to hear from anyone with CHALK(E) in their tree Any help appreciated Nigel CHALK .

Hi Brad, Thank you very much. I really appreciate the input. Regards Pat -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Brad Rogers Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 8:32 PM To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SRY] census details On Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:06:06 +1100 "Pat Wade" <pmwade@optusnet.com.au> wrote: Hello Pat, >Thank you. I just could not see that my ANN would be able to afford a >FS. Bed and board _may_ have made up a substantial portion of their income. IOW, little money may have changed hands. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" Loaded like a freight train flyin' like an aeroplane Nightrain - Guns 'N' Roses . *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com . ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you very much Dave, Much appreciated Pat -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Massie Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 10:44 PM To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SRY] census details On 07/11/12 22:04, Pat Wade wrote: > > And I if this is my ANN, I would not expect her to have the money for > a FS but if this was a daughter (cannot find a Martha as yet), > daughter-in-law or other relative and she worked elsewhere then that > could make sense. > > Or maybe they just put FS and she didn't work for money. Until the 1920s-1930s, it was routine for girls to become domestic servants in other people's houses, once they reached their 12th birthday. My mother was the first generation in her family not to go 'into service'. They weren't paid much, if anything, but given food and lodging. The idea was to save the expense of raising a daughter, and train her up for married life. Quite often, she would go to a relative to be a domestic there. So that 'niece, FS', may well be doing her service with a family member, not just visiting. It only really stopped once universal education beyond 12 years of age was introduced. -- Regards Dave . *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com . ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Chris, No I hadn't thought of that one. Thank you very much - it is the reason I ask questions. There are usually more scenarios than I first think of. Thank you Pat -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Chris Townsend Sent: Friday, 9 November 2012 2:47 AM To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SRY] census details Hello Pat, Have you considered that the employer of Ann and Martha might usually live at that address, but be away from home on census night? Best wishes, Chris Townsend ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Wade" <pmwade@optusnet.com.au> To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> e subject and the body of the message

Thank you -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Jan Hearn Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 10:17 AM To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SRY] census details Several of the families I've researched who have had children have had a "Nurse" living with them as one of the servants and especially around the time of birth of a new baby in their home. She may have been a daily Nurse in someon else's home also Jan . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Wade" <pmwade@optusnet.com.au> To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [SRY] census details > Thank you > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf > Of Nivard Ovington > Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 9:50 AM > To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SRY] census details > > Hi again > > The occupations were accepted as given on the > schedule > > Some occupations were abbreviated such as Clerk to > Cl > > But Nurse could have covered several occupations > including midwife if thats how she described > herself, I don't think qualified would have > entered into it > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 07/11/2012 22:44, Pat Wade wrote: >> Hi Nivard, >> >> > of the message > > > . > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com > . > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > . *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com . ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Pat, Have you considered that the employer of Ann and Martha might usually live at that address, but be away from home on census night? Best wishes, Chris Townsend ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Wade" <pmwade@optusnet.com.au> To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [SRY] census details > Hi Nivard, > > I did mean female servant gee I'm getting old :-) > > Thank you - > > What I had for an entry in the 1841 census was - > At Tower Hamlets, Shoreditch > Ann Freeman aged 55 [House???] Y > ?(Martha) Freeman aged 25 FS Y > John Freeman aged 3 Y > > And I if this is my ANN, I would not expect her to > have the money for a FS but if this was a daughter > (cannot find a Martha as yet), daughter-in-law or > other relative and she worked elsewhere then that > could make sense. > > Or maybe they just put FS and she didn't work for > money. > > Oh well back to the drawing boards. > > Thank you > Pat

>From The Times, Wednesday, Jun 27, 1787; pg.3; Issue 784; col D  MARRIED. Monday the 18th inst. at Richmond, in Surry, Mr. CAMPBELL , sen. of Carey-street, to Miss PRITCHARD , of  Richmond.

On 07/11/12 22:04, Pat Wade wrote: > > And I if this is my ANN, I would not expect her to > have the money for a FS but if this was a daughter > (cannot find a Martha as yet), daughter-in-law or > other relative and she worked elsewhere then that > could make sense. > > Or maybe they just put FS and she didn't work for > money. Until the 1920s-1930s, it was routine for girls to become domestic servants in other people's houses, once they reached their 12th birthday. My mother was the first generation in her family not to go 'into service'. They weren't paid much, if anything, but given food and lodging. The idea was to save the expense of raising a daughter, and train her up for married life. Quite often, she would go to a relative to be a domestic there. So that 'niece, FS', may well be doing her service with a family member, not just visiting. It only really stopped once universal education beyond 12 years of age was introduced. -- Regards Dave

Several of the families I've researched who have had children have had a "Nurse" living with them as one of the servants and especially around the time of birth of a new baby in their home. She may have been a daily Nurse in someon else's home also Jan . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Wade" <pmwade@optusnet.com.au> To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [SRY] census details > Thank you > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf > Of Nivard Ovington > Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 9:50 AM > To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SRY] census details > > Hi again > > The occupations were accepted as given on the > schedule > > Some occupations were abbreviated such as Clerk to > Cl > > But Nurse could have covered several occupations > including midwife if thats how she described > herself, I don't think qualified would have > entered into it > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 07/11/2012 22:44, Pat Wade wrote: >> Hi Nivard, >> >> > of the message > > > . > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com > . > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 9:50 AM To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SRY] census details Hi again The occupations were accepted as given on the schedule Some occupations were abbreviated such as Clerk to Cl But Nurse could have covered several occupations including midwife if thats how she described herself, I don't think qualified would have entered into it Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/11/2012 22:44, Pat Wade wrote: > Hi Nivard, > > of the message

Hi Nivard, I found the occupation hard to read but going back now with that suggestion I can see the possibility/ probability of NURSE. But if she was a "qualified nurse" I somehow don't think I have the right one but if "nurse" was used to cover a "mid wife" then that could be a possibility. Now to work out where Martha fits in. :-) Thank you for your help Pat -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 9:14 AM To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SRY] census details Hi again I think your Ann FREEMAN is a Nurse as an occupation No relationships in 1841 but you might suggest that Martha (I would agree with you on that) may be the daughter of Ann and perhaps John the son of Martha Given the surnames I would say Martha was a female servant but worked elsewhere Its difficult to be sure without further evidence As you rightly say she could be more or less anything but they put FS down, but in the main I find most occupations in the census are correct by and large Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) tes in the subject and the body of the message

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:06:06 +1100 "Pat Wade" <pmwade@optusnet.com.au> wrote: Hello Pat, >Thank you. I just could not see that my ANN would >be able to afford a FS. Bed and board _may_ have made up a substantial portion of their income. IOW, little money may have changed hands. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" Loaded like a freight train flyin' like an aeroplane Nightrain - Guns 'N' Roses

Hi Connie, Thank you. I just could not see that my ANN would be able to afford a FS. Thank you Pat -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Connie Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 8:37 AM To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SRY] census details Hallo FS means female servant. Their residence may be where they worked if they were a live-in servant. They could be visiting with their family on census night if there were others in the household with the same surname. I believe most domestic and farm servants whether male (MS) or female lived-in. Connie in London . *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com . ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Nivard, I did mean female servant gee I'm getting old :-) Thank you - What I had for an entry in the 1841 census was - At Tower Hamlets, Shoreditch Ann Freeman aged 55 [House???] Y ?(Martha) Freeman aged 25 FS Y John Freeman aged 3 Y And I if this is my ANN, I would not expect her to have the money for a FS but if this was a daughter (cannot find a Martha as yet), daughter-in-law or other relative and she worked elsewhere then that could make sense. Or maybe they just put FS and she didn't work for money. Oh well back to the drawing boards. Thank you Pat -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 8:07 AM To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SRY] census details Hi Pat FS stands for Female Servant The census called for those who were residing on census night so yes they lived there, or at least were residing there on that night which does suggest they did so on a permanent basis Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/11/2012 21:03, Pat Wade wrote: > Hi, > > If a person has FS (family servant) as their occupation was it also at > their place of residence or could they live at home and work > elsewhere? > > I hope I have explained that correctly > > Thank you > Pat . *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com . ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, If a person has FS (family servant) as their occupation was it also at their place of residence or could they live at home and work elsewhere? I hope I have explained that correctly Thank you Pat

Hi again The occupations were accepted as given on the schedule Some occupations were abbreviated such as Clerk to Cl But Nurse could have covered several occupations including midwife if thats how she described herself, I don't think qualified would have entered into it Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/11/2012 22:44, Pat Wade wrote: > Hi Nivard, > > I found the occupation hard to read but going back > now with that suggestion I can see the > possibility/ probability of NURSE. But if she was > a "qualified nurse" I somehow don't think I have > the right one but if "nurse" was used to cover a > "mid wife" then that could be a possibility. > > Now to work out where Martha fits in. :-) > > Thank you for your help > Pat

Hi again I think your Ann FREEMAN is a Nurse as an occupation No relationships in 1841 but you might suggest that Martha (I would agree with you on that) may be the daughter of Ann and perhaps John the son of Martha Given the surnames I would say Martha was a female servant but worked elsewhere Its difficult to be sure without further evidence As you rightly say she could be more or less anything but they put FS down, but in the main I find most occupations in the census are correct by and large Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/11/2012 22:04, Pat Wade wrote: > Hi Nivard, > > I did mean female servant gee I'm getting old :-) > > Thank you - > > What I had for an entry in the 1841 census was - > At Tower Hamlets, Shoreditch > Ann Freeman aged 55 [House???] Y > ?(Martha) Freeman aged 25 FS Y > John Freeman aged 3 Y > > And I if this is my ANN, I would not expect her to > have the money for a FS but if this was a daughter > (cannot find a Martha as yet), daughter-in-law or > other relative and she worked elsewhere then that > could make sense. > > Or maybe they just put FS and she didn't work for > money. > > Oh well back to the drawing boards. > > Thank you > Pat

Pat Wade wrote: > Hi, > > If a person has FS (family servant) as their > occupation was it also at their place of residence > or could they live at home and work elsewhere? > > I hope I have explained that correctly Hallo FS means female servant. Their residence may be where they worked if they were a live-in servant. They could be visiting with their family on census night if there were others in the household with the same surname. I believe most domestic and farm servants whether male (MS) or female lived-in. Connie in London

Hi Pat FS stands for Female Servant The census called for those who were residing on census night so yes they lived there, or at least were residing there on that night which does suggest they did so on a permanent basis Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/11/2012 21:03, Pat Wade wrote: > Hi, > > If a person has FS (family servant) as their > occupation was it also at their place of residence > or could they live at home and work elsewhere? > > I hope I have explained that correctly > > Thank you > Pat