Hi Pat You seem to have it mostly sorted already, but I wonder if there is more information on any of the certificates which might add to the picture. The death of Amelia Freeman in 1858: Is her age consistent with the 1851 cenus record and/or the age at marriage in 1850? Who reported it? If it was not Edwin, that would lend support to the theory that he was no longer living with her. The 1861 census: what does it give for the ages of Edwin and Mary Ann? Do they accord with the ages on the marriage certificate of 1859? Is Mary Ann shown as a spinster, a widow or what? Where does it show Mary Ann being born? Does that Mary Ann have any connection to Liverpool, where Mary Ann Edwards married in 1852? Is her age consistent with the Mary Ann who married in 1852? Is there any more detail in any of the Australian records (censuses, birth or death certificates?) that helps to confirm their identities or relate them to the people recorded in England? It seems to me most probable that Edwin left his first wife some time after 1851, and took up with Mary Ann, by whom he had 2 children out of wedlock (by no means uncommon, even in Victorian times), although he he was calling her his wife on their birth certificates (I am guessing that bit as I assume from what you say that the children were registered under the name Freeman). He subsequently married her in 1859 after his first wife had died in 1858. Quite why they re-married in Australia in 1881 is another matter - perhaps to get an Australian wedding certificate? Or to renew their vows? Lawrence Pearse > From: pmwade@optusnet.com.au > To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:36:45 +1100 > Subject: [SRY] Bring home the lost and strayed. > > Hi, > > I am having trouble untangling the life of my > husbands GGGUncle Edwin FREEMAN. Edwin's baptism > has eluded me but would be around 1831 either in > Surry or Middlesex the son of John FREEMAN and Ann > HAINES - John being a hatter. I have the baptisms > for all or at least most of his siblings. > > Edwin is a plasterer and he is in the 1851 census > with a wife Amelia and subsequent marriage appears > to be Jun qrt 1850. Amelia Hannah Walters BISHOP > to Edwin FREEMAN Stepney 2 559. > > The 1861 census has him with wife Mary A and four > children and his mother. Details of life in > Australia (they emigrated between 1861-1863) have > his wife as Mary Ann EDWARDS. His first two > children appear to have been named with his second > wife in mind i.e. Edwin Edwards FREEMAN 1854 and > Mary Ann FREEMAN 1856 but the only possible death > of Amelia Hannah FREEMAN is registered in Dec qrt > 1858. > > > To confuse me more it is possible that he married > a Mary Ann HOWARD nee EDWARDS in the December > quarter of 1859 (Mary Ann Edwards married a John > Howard in the Sep quarter 1852 Liverpool 8b 255) > BUT there is also a marriage in Victoria Australia > for Edwin FREEMAN and Mary Ann EDWARDS in 1881 > (4112) > > Even if he did marry Mary Ann Howard nee Edwards > it is still after the birth of the two children > that appear to be named after her and then if that > is the case why remarry her in Australian some 27 > years after the first child was born??? > > Am I missing something or just getting too much > information?? :-) > > Thank you > Pat > > > . > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com > . > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Norm, I have some by the name of FLOWER in my tree. The names you mention don't seem to be in my line, but I have found that some of the records are transcribed as FLOWERS and FOWLER. Their Surrey family came from Basingstoke, HAM. Good luck with you search. Pat Winnipeg On Dec 28, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Norm Flower <flowern@telus.net> wrote: > Hello All, > My brick wall has my head hurting from banging it against the brick. > > I have been looking for years for Rose FLOWER born June 20,1847 to Paul and > Mary Ann Flower nee Fisher. She is the 3rd child of the 4 children to Paul > and Mary Ann, their oldest being Elizabeth Dinah Flower born Dec 09, 1842, > Mary Ann born Dec 02.1845 and John William Flower born June 19, 1849, he is > my Great Grandfather. The last document I have with any mention of Rose > FLOWER is the death certificate of Paul Flower August 02, 1869 and Rose > FLOWER is the informant which states "X Mark of Rose Flowers present at > death 1 Clarence Terrace, Rotherhithe". The certificate has an "s "on the > Surname " FLOWERS" but that was not uncommon as my family has gone through > years of with registrars adding an "s" when their wasn't supposed to be one. > > I have been unable to find Rose on the 1871 census or any other census after > 1861 or any ship's manifest indicating she may have left the country. I have > not found any marriage or death certificate for her any help would be really > appreciated. > > Norm Flower > Vancouver Island > British Columbia > > > > > > > . > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com > . > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you Bob and Bob for confirming that the Staines birth registration was likely to be the right one in my search for the origins of William Henry GREEN. Lyn Rye, Australia

Hi This is a real long shot - but does have a tenuous Surrey link! In 1901 census for Godalming there appears Theodore Victor L'Estrange, age 7, birthplace n/k, he is in some sort of children's home in a house called Tilthams. No birth registration or baptism record has ever been traced for this boy. In 1911 he is at school, he then went to Canada and his later life is known. The record of his admission to school shows Miss Lobb as his guardian. She was head of household in 1901. (Maude Marian Lobb) In his Canadian Army record he states that he was baptised or born at Bournemouth, and that Miss Lobb was his godmother. I doubt that either statement is true!! I think that he was filling in a form and had to put something down. If anybody can come up with any information on Theodore Victor L'Estrange prior to 1901 I will be amazed and thrilled! Any info on Tilthams between May 1891 when M M Lobb returned from Australia, and 1901 census, would be most interesting too as might add a little to life of TV L'Estrange!! Thanks!! Beverley

Hello All. This is a great idea ! My mystery relative is my Great Grandmother ELIZABETH MILLS. ELIZABETH MILLS had a daughter (aka my grandmother) - BESSIE MILLS. BESSIE MILLS was born on 25.11.1878. There is no father listed on the birth certificate. However ,the informant was ELIJAH HEDGER , whose house was BESSIE MILLS birthplace. BESSIE MILLS makes her first census appearance in 1881 in Stoke near Guildford, Surrey. She is documented as the 2 year old niece of ELIJAH & MARY ANN LEDGER. Further investigation discovered that MARY ANN LEDGER was ELIZABETH MILLS sister. Any information about ELIZABETH MILLS will be greatly appreciated. I can't find any info regarding her birth, marriage or death. She seems to be a ghost in the life of her daughter Bessie. Sadly, Bessie died when I was 3 and my parents are gone too so there is nobody left to shed any light on Elizabeth's life. I am hoping that the good people on this forum may be able to help. Yours, hopefully ! Peter

----- Original Message ----- From: CARL To: ENG-SURREY@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:48 PM Subject: OCCUPANTS OF A HOUSE CIRCA 1932 G,day everyone. I am trying to trace my deceased Fathers childhood as i know very little of it. Once while browsing the web, i came across an address which listed him there at age 12 years in 1932. I lost the details & have searched high & low without success. The address was 45 Northcroft road ,Ewell. I believe he may have been there with his aunt & uncle. Surnames involved are GODDARD & MASON. Does anyone know how i may find these details again. In anticipation of any replies. Regards Carl

Nancy, I feel sure you will be most heartily forgiven ;-) Following on from Nivard's find, Ancestry's database shows three other children baptised to parents William and Elizabeth DUMMER -- Mary Williams DUMMER (9 Sep 1798), Maria Ann DUMMER (23 Sep 1803) and Sophia Ann DUMMER (15 Jan 1806). These children were baptised at Ealing, which (unlike St Saviour) is in Middlesex. It's possible that Samuel George DUMMER belongs to this same couple, and that Samuel was actually born in Ealing, though baptised for some reason at St Saviour in 1801. Alternatively, if Samuel was raised in Ealing he may have been born in Surrey but *thought* he was born in Ealing! HTH Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of or Please forgive my two known errors, as well as any bothersome others. First, I misattributed my ggggrandfather's death information to Neville's help, when of course it was Nivard! Second, I forgot to do what you most graciously did, which was to modify the subject line to Bringing.... --DRUMMER. I appreciate that, since I'm sure most don't want to comb through irrelevant emails. The only excuse I have is that I've found my mother is critically ill, and has only a few months to live. So I want to spend it with her, while finishing this DRUMMER line that got me started in the first place. I'm just not thinking straight nowadays. Thanks, all. I will take your advice Nivard (once again!) and Judy, and start searching in the areas you mention. Nancy -----Original Message----- From: Judy Lester <jlester@btinternet.com> Just as an aside, do bear in mind that what Ancestry calls St Saviour Denmark Park at this date is actually St Saviour Southwark, wrongly labelled. Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington The nearest I can find is (from Ancestry) St Saviour Denmark Park Sunday 18th Oct Rev'd Mr GIBSON? 1801 Sam'l George son of Wm DUMMER, Lab'r Eliz'th born 17th Oct 1801 In the 1841 it states he was born in Middlesex, that may be accurate though Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/12/2012 20:58, or wrote: > Please tell me if I've misunderstood, but I'm looking for my ggggrandpa, Samuel Drummer/Drummond/Dummer, etc. He d. Samuel Drummond, 1850 St. Mary's, Lambeth (thanks Neville!). He was born in Mdx. abt 1801. The weird thing is, I can't find his birth/christening information. Does anyone have any idea how I could find it? I've looked in Surrey, Middl or > esex, and all the other counties. He was a brick maker, so I've considered that he might also have come from Germany,since Drummer is German as well. > > > Just hoping that maybe sks can help me with this brick wall (weak pun intended :-/ Thanks!

In a message dated 29/12/2012 23:17:59 GMT Standard Time, lyn-yates@bigpond.com writes: Thank you Bob and Bob for confirming that the Staines birth registration was likely to be the right one in my search for the origins of William Henry GREEN. Lyn Rye, Australia . *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com . ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello All. This is a great idea ! My mystery relative is my Great Grandmother ELIZABETH MILLS. ELIZABETH MILLS had a daughter (aka my grandmother) - BESSIE MILLS. BESSIE MILLS was born on 25.11.1878. There is no father listed on the birth certificate. However ,the informant was ELIJAH HEDGER , whose house was BESSIE MILLS birthplace. BESSIE MILLS makes her first census appearance in 1881 in Stoke near Guildford, Surrey. She is documented as the 2 year old niece of ELIJAH & MARY ANN LEDGER. Further investigation discovered that MARY ANN LEDGER was ELIZABETH MILLS sister. Any information about ELIZABETH MILLS will be greatly appreciated. I can't find any info regarding her birth, marriage or death. She seems to be a ghost in the life of her daughter Bessie. Sadly, Bessie died when I was 3 and my parents are gone too so there is nobody left to shed any light on Elizabeth's life. I am hoping that the good people on this forum may be able to help. Yours, hopefully ! Peter

Hi it is abt 1480-1540 ish can get the real date but that is ok for now it is the manor of tarring cum marlpost in horsham and west TARRING in sussex up to the surrey border james -----Original Message----- From: Judy Lester [mailto:jlester@btinternet.com] Sent: 29 December 2012 17:54 To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com; 'james' Subject: RE: [SRY] reasearcher to go to lambeth palace archieve Hi James, If you can give a little more information it will help. For example, what period are you looking at, because abstracting mediaeval documents requires specialist research skills, including a knowledge of Latin. And which manor is it, because local knowledge can be useful when dealing with manorial records? Lambeth Palace Library is not difficult to access, unless you are after restricted material. Please see this page. http://www.lambethpalacelibrary.org/content/access If you don't get a recommendation through this mailing list, you could try AGRA, which lists accredited researchers by specialism. http://www.agra.org.uk/memberexpertise.php HTH Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of james I am looking for a researcher to go to Lambeth palace and give me abstract of manorial docunents does anyone know any one who they would trust And can get in this achieve easierly james

Hi James, If you can give a little more information it will help. For example, what period are you looking at, because abstracting mediaeval documents requires specialist research skills, including a knowledge of Latin. And which manor is it, because local knowledge can be useful when dealing with manorial records? Lambeth Palace Library is not difficult to access, unless you are after restricted material. Please see this page. http://www.lambethpalacelibrary.org/content/access If you don't get a recommendation through this mailing list, you could try AGRA, which lists accredited researchers by specialism. http://www.agra.org.uk/memberexpertise.php HTH Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of james I am looking for a researcher to go to Lambeth palace and give me abstract of manorial docunents does anyone know any one who they would trust And can get in this achieve easierly james

Hi I am looking for a researcher to go to Lambeth palace and give me abstract of manorial docunents does anyone know any one who they would trust And can get in this achieve easierly james

Please forgive my two known errors, as well as any bothersome others. First, I misattributed my ggggrandfather's death information to Neville's help, when of course it was Nivard! Second, I forgot to do what you most graciously did, which was to modify the subject line to Bringing.... --DRUMMER. I appreciate that, since I'm sure most don't want to comb through irrelevant emails. The only excuse I have is that I've found my mother is critically ill, and has only a few months to live. So I want to spend it with her, while finishing this DRUMMER line that got me started in the first place. I'm just not thinking straight nowadays. Thanks, all. I will take your advice Nivard (once again!) and Judy, and start searching in the areas you mention. Nancy -----Original Message----- From: Judy Lester <jlester@btinternet.com> To: eng-surrey <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Fri, Dec 28, 2012 5:37 pm Subject: Re: [SRY] Bringing home the lost and strayed - DRUMMER Just as an aside, do bear in mind that what Ancestry calls St Saviour Denmark Park at this date is actually St Saviour Southwark, wrongly labelled. Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: 28 December 2012 23:21 To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SRY] Bringing home the lost and strayed The nearest I can find is (from Ancestry) St Saviour Denmark Park Sunday 18th Oct Rev'd Mr GIBSON? 1801 Sam'l George son of Wm DUMMER, Lab'r Eliz'th born 17th Oct 1801 In the 1841 it states he was born in Middlesex, that may be accurate though Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/12/2012 20:58, or wrote: > Please tell me if I've misunderstood, but I'm looking for my ggggrandpa, Samuel Drummer/Drummond/Dummer, etc. He d. Samuel Drummond, 1850 St. Mary's, Lambeth (thanks Neville!). He was born in Mdx. abt 1801. The weird thing is, I can't find his birth/christening information. Does anyone have any idea how I could find it? I've looked in Surrey, Middl or > esex, and all the other counties. He was a brick maker, so I've considered that he might also have come from Germany,since Drummer is German as well. > > > Just hoping that maybe sks can help me with this brick wall (weak pun intended :-/ Thanks! > > . *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com . ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It would be great to bring home the parents of William Alfred HILLS (sometimes seen as Alfred William) William was born Godstone about 1855 on his marriage certificate he gives his father's name as George HILLS farm labourer. From his service record his mother's name is Mary he also lists a younger brother Morris. I have records for William from his Army service, his marriage to Margaret Frances Johnson then from 1891 census through to his death in 1935. Any help to find the parents will be appreciated! Best wishes Pat

Carl, have you tried searching here? http://www.epsomandewellhistoryexplorer.org.uk/ HTH Judy London, UK ----- Original Message ----- From: CARL To: ENG-SURREY@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:48 PM Subject: OCCUPANTS OF A HOUSE CIRCA 1932 G,day everyone. I am trying to trace my deceased Fathers childhood as i know very little of it. Once while browsing the web, i came across an address which listed him there at age 12 years in 1932. I lost the details & have searched high & low without success. The address was 45 Northcroft road ,Ewell. I believe he may have been there with his aunt & uncle. Surnames involved are GODDARD & MASON. Does anyone know how i may find these details again. In anticipation of any replies. Regards Carl

CARL wrote: > G,day everyone. I am trying to trace my deceased Fathers childhood as i > know > very little of it. Once while browsing the web, i came across an address > which listed him there at age 12 years in 1932. I lost the details & have > searched high & low without success. The address was 45 Northcroft road > ,Ewell. I believe he may have been there with his aunt & uncle. Surnames > involved are GODDARD & MASON. Does anyone know how i may find these details > again. In anticipation of any replies. Regards Carl Hallo Ancestry has the electoral rolls which will list all those entitled to vote but not children. Ancestry also has telephone directories which will give the name of the person the telephone number is in but not any other members of the household. Connie in London

Hello Everyone, I have been unable to locate for certain, my ancestor's birthplace and therefore am pleased to have this opportunity to ask for help. Thomas PRATT was born about 1775 somewhere in Surrey. This is gleaned from his burial in West Clandon in 1845. He was recorded as being 70 years old. The 1841 census for West Clandon shows that he was born in Surrey. I have two possible marriages and progeny for him. Both the marriages are recorded in St George's PRs, Hanover Square, Middx. 1 Elizabeth HOLDERNESS 1801 (6 children) 2 Lucy GROVE 1825 (10 children) All the children were baptised in Send & Ripley or West Clandon. Thomas was a Keeper. This was noted for all the children of his second marriage and for the last child of his first, leading me to 'think' that it might be the same fellow. Hoping that someone may be able to give me a lead backwards and suggest a birthplace for Thomas, particularly as he had died before the 1851 Census. Best wishes for the New Year, Di

Hello Chris, Thank you for taking the time to try to solve my 'brick wall'. The Thomas you mention born in Ireland was the son of another brother, George Douse PRATT. George was also a gamekeeper and two of his sons were born in Ireland. I can find a birth record for James in 1878, but not for Thomas in 1877. On George's marriage certificate he is living in Ireland, but I cannot locate the place, nor could some people on the Antrim list. He married in Rishangles, Suffolk in 1875 and I wonder if he came 'home' to his wife's parish for the christening of Thomas. It's on the 'to do' list. Thank you again, Di

At 02:34 AM 29/12/2012, Judy Lester wrote: >Graham, and Chris, >At the risk of throwing a spanner in the works, the address given for >the BENNETT family in 1911 appears to be 'Lynmouth', Lynton Road, New >Malden (a private house). >RG14/3525 SN141 Ah yes, sorry, Judy. My mistake. 1911 is correct for Lymouth, the later address came from the wills of Alfred & his second wife who died before him. Cheers Graham

Just as an aside, do bear in mind that what Ancestry calls St Saviour Denmark Park at this date is actually St Saviour Southwark, wrongly labelled. Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: 28 December 2012 23:21 To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SRY] Bringing home the lost and strayed The nearest I can find is (from Ancestry) St Saviour Denmark Park Sunday 18th Oct Rev'd Mr GIBSON? 1801 Sam'l George son of Wm DUMMER, Lab'r Eliz'th born 17th Oct 1801 In the 1841 it states he was born in Middlesex, that may be accurate though Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/12/2012 20:58, or wrote: > Please tell me if I've misunderstood, but I'm looking for my ggggrandpa, Samuel Drummer/Drummond/Dummer, etc. He d. Samuel Drummond, 1850 St. Mary's, Lambeth (thanks Neville!). He was born in Mdx. abt 1801. The weird thing is, I can't find his birth/christening information. Does anyone have any idea how I could find it? I've looked in Surrey, Middl or > esex, and all the other counties. He was a brick maker, so I've considered that he might also have come from Germany,since Drummer is German as well. > > > Just hoping that maybe sks can help me with this brick wall (weak pun intended :-/ Thanks! > >