Good evening Looking for James Jackson Smith born 21 January 1837 with sisters Mary and Caroline. All I know is that he was born in England and left for Australia in 1857 from Liverpool. Any help would be great. Glenys Kempshall

Hello Anne, Thank you, I shall try and find out the type of ship he was on. Wives often accompanied their husbands on larger ships, I shall start digging. I will see if this Doris Ena is on the 1911 census first...I almost wasted a small fortune on looking for the death of a 4gt grandmother of this family. At least 7 ladies of the right name and in the right area died in the ten years between the census returns, but none of these were her. I later found out she had a middle name I did not know of and the informant spelt Matthews with one t. I had found a burial record that enough clues on it to make me finally order a certificate (bingo). Best Wishes Dorri > > > > snip > > > > > > Daughter - Louise Emma Elizabeth, b. 1 Oct 1873, marries Robert WHITTAKER in Newington, 24 Jul 1897, he is > > down as a M.M. Chief Officer at Newhaven, Sussex. I cannot find these two in the 1901 or 1911 census > > returns or a death for Louise. Any ideas on what an M.M. Chief Officer please?ater > > Mercantile Marine Chief Officer i.e. Merchant Navy > > > Son - Charles Walsh MATTHEWS b. 1876, Bermondsey, marries Ena Dorriss MILHOUSE in 1898, they appear on the > > 1901 census at Southwark, but again they are missing off the 1911 census. She was born @ 1876 in Western > > Australia. > > This may be coincidence > Births Dec 1907 > MATTHEWS Doris Ena Newmarket 3b 417 > > but it might be worth getting the certificate to see who her parents are. > > Anne > South Australia > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Chat to your friends for free on selected mobiles http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/

Thank you. Carole Beth Arnette USA On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 11:43 PM, Fionnghal < fionnghalnicphadraig@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > That sounds like the big A, Ancestry.co.uk <http://ancestry.co.uk/> they > have incoming UK 1878-1960. However, i'm not sure which subscription it > requires or if all subs can access it. > > You could also try the http://www.theshipslist.com/ They have a variety > of transcribed lists though i'm not sure if it includes return journeys and > you may be lucky > > le durachd > Fionnghal > > Have > > maternal families members who came to the USA > > then went back home. > > > > > > Good Evening, > > > I am trying to recall the site that has passengers > > returning to England Can you Help? > > > > > > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I would like to thank Ann, Hilary and Lawrence for taking the time to provide me with some information on my great grandmother Louisa THORPE, nee CAREY. I really appreciate that you found the time to respond to my query. Thank you Ann for providing me with a copy of the Thorpe household from the 1911 Census. Still trying to find a date for her death. I did find an entry of FreeBMD as follows Deaths Jun 1927 Thorpe Louisa E Age: 80, District: Croydon, Vol 2a, Page 424 Knowing she was born in 1858 (I have her birth certificate/registration), this death entry confuses me as it would make her birth year 1847 - almost ten years out. Also the name is stated as Louisa E - again I have never known her to have a second name; nor does her birth entry show a second name. The registration district of Croydon would be right as she lived her later years in Coulsdon. Desley Brisbane

Wow thankyou so much everyone, what a response!!!!!! Thanks to Richard, Jean, Colin, Adele, Jan, Ann S, Hilary, Steve, Judy, Paul and Anne. I hope I have not missed anyone, if so thankyou too. You have given me so much to work on.....I shall be puttering all week. I was born in Beckenham and dad used to walk through the Beckenham Cemetery to work in Norwood. We used to travel the bus to Croydon, Caterham, Lewisham and rode past where grandad lived. I can still picture it all with the bell tower....etc. My family lines all meet in these areas that you have all been mentioning, so like someone stated he could have died whilst visiting. I will definitely keep you all posted. When I ask for assistance it's always so freely given, many many thanks guys and girls. Pam from Adelaide Australia Always be yourself because the people that matter don't mind. The ones that mind don't matter.

Hi Paul, thanks for that....my family are all around South Norwood, West Norwood, Croydon, Lewisham, beckenham etc So I will not look into Ealing. Thankyou Cheers Pam > You are probably aware but Norwood near Southall in west London (in LB > Ealing) is not the same Norwood as those in south London (which are West > Norwood, Upper Norwood and South Norwood in LB Lambeth, Croydon and > Croydon respectivelythe message

Hi, Assuming he's Edward A ROBERTS as per 1881 census that you refer to. I have sent copies of 1861, 1871, 1891, 1901 census records off line (some of which are for the SHORTLAND family. I have also sent a copy of the Baptism record for Edward Angell ROBERTS which seems a likely match. Best wishes, Sue > ROBERTS Edward E > > Am trying to find the parents and family of Edward E Roberts born circa 1837. > The 1881 census entry for him: > Dwelling: 109 Gloucester Rd > Census Place: St Pancras, London, Middlesex, England > Marr Age Sex Birthplace > Edward A. ROBERTS M 44 M Kennington, Surrey, England > Rel: Head > Occ: Clerk Civil Service > Mary J. ROBERTS M 33 F Ireland > Rel: Wife > Elizabeth A. SHORTLAND U 22 F Plymouth, Devon, England > Rel: Sister In Law > > I would appreciate any information of Edward or his family. > > _________________________________________________________________ Chat to your friends for free on selected mobiles http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/

Hi Pam I suspect that your problem may be more difficult than simple geography. The pre-war period and that immediately post-war, was still a time when people spent a great deal of time and, relative to their income, money, preparing for their funerals. It was not uncommon for family graves or plots to be purchased and for many relatives to be buried together. The implication for your search is that a purchased plot, should one exist, may well be 'close' geographically to a previous address. There is also the problem of overcrowding in the Metropolitan cemeteries. As an example; my grandmother died in 1993 having been widowed in 1949. Her husband, my grandfather, was buried at the cemetery off Greyhound lane in Streatham. When my grandfather died they were living in Auckland Hill near the borders of West, South and Upper Norwood. Ordinarily you might suppose that he would have been buried in West Norwood but, for whatever reason, he was sent to Streatham. In time my grandmother moved from West Norwood to Brixton, to Croydon, to Addington, and then finally she died having celebrated her 100th birthday in Caterham. There was no question of her place of burial since she 'owned a plot' at Streatham. Regards John

Carole, The boys were probably "boarded out" in Hampshire by whichever Poor Law Union was responsible for their upkeep. This type of fostering by families in the country was standard practice in the early 1900s, and was a good source of income for families who were willing to do it. A bit of googling will probably produce some information. If the ETHERTON family was chargeable to Lambeth, you might find something in the Lambeth Board of Guardians' records, held at the London Metropolitan Archives. HTH Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Carole Moon I have found my Great Uncle William Frederick ETHERTON born 1898 Lambeth on the 1911 census living in London Road Hook Hampshire as a boarder not with his parents Edward & Emily ETHERTON & siblings who were living at 7 Gye Street Buildings Lambeth.   There were 4 other boys from London boarded with this family in Hampshire ...

Is it possible that she remarried? Cheers Jo in Leics jo.mason@swsmail.net holmested@one-name.org

Dorri Roughley wrote: > > Hello, > snip > > > Daughter - Louise Emma Elizabeth, b. 1 Oct 1873, marries Robert WHITTAKER in Newington, 24 Jul 1897, he is > down as a M.M. Chief Officer at Newhaven, Sussex. I cannot find these two in the 1901 or 1911 census > returns or a death for Louise. Any ideas on what an M.M. Chief Officer please? Mercantile Marine Chief Officer i.e. Merchant Navy > Son - Charles Walsh MATTHEWS b. 1876, Bermondsey, marries Ena Dorriss MILHOUSE in 1898, they appear on the > 1901 census at Southwark, but again they are missing off the 1911 census. She was born @ 1876 in Western > Australia. This may be coincidence Births Dec 1907 MATTHEWS Doris Ena Newmarket 3b 417 but it might be worth getting the certificate to see who her parents are. Anne South Australia

Hi Pam it could be Elmer's End Cemetery (Beckenham) you could get to it off Portland Road South Norwood family friends went there in the 50s and 60s they lived in Sidney Road South Norwood Jean in Perth W.A. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Hillier" <pamhillier24@virginbroadband.com.au> To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: [SRY] CEMETERY HELP NORWOOD......please - William James Hillier(1871) > > > Hi all, > Thought I would post this again > There's been some chatter about cemetery's of late and thought I would > ask. > My grandfather lived at 204 Selhurst Road,Norwood and my parents were > married just > down the road at the Holy Innocents Church in 1941. I imagine that the > West > Norwood Cemetery would be the likely place for his burial sometime after > 1941 (family lore states after 1955) , but I have never > been able to find his death in years of looking. The Hillier name being > common and the deriviatives are mind boggling..... > Can someone tell me whether or not West Norwood Cemetery is the likely > last > repose for my Grandad? Or is their another......I believe (if my brother > is > right) that he died when I was a toddler, so around 1956,7,8. > It seems on google maps that it's only 3.2 miles away from their last know > address so seems likely. > many thanks in advance > Cheers Pam from Adelaide Australia > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.42/2473 - Release Date: 10/31/09 21:14:00

Pam, I don't know if you get to see the BBC programmes "Who Do You Think You Are?" - but Patsy Kemsitt (hope spelling is correct) one of our TV actresses had her lineage covered in one programme & her family came from Beckenham.  So film at Bromley Library, inside the Beckenham Parish Church etc.  Great :-))  Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. ________________________________ From: Pam Hillier <pamhillier24@virginbroadband.com.au> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 2 November, 2009 6:48:58 Subject: [SRY] CEMETERY HELP NORWOOD .... please Wow thankyou so much everyone, what a response!!!!!! Thanks to Richard, Jean, Colin, Adele, Jan, Ann S, Hilary, Steve, Judy, Paul and Anne. I hope I have not missed anyone, if so thankyou too. You have given me so much to work on.....I shall be puttering all week. I was born in Beckenham and dad used to walk through the Beckenham Cemetery to work in Norwood. We used to travel the bus to Croydon, Caterham, Lewisham and rode past where grandad lived. I can still picture it all with the bell tower....etc. My family lines all meet in these areas that you have all been mentioning, so like someone stated he could have died whilst visiting. I will definitely keep you all posted. When I ask for assistance it's always so freely given, many many thanks guys and girls. Pam from Adelaide Australia Always be yourself because the people that matter don't mind. The ones that mind don't matter. *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at:  Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com.   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If the age is wrong (1847 v 1858) and the middle initial is news, isn't it just possible you have the wrong record of death? That possibility would seem to help eliminate feeling confused. Michael C.

Norwood in the Ealing area, this is odd, miles apart, on either side of the Thames... but did I not see on a map at one stage another NORWOOD over near Ealing? Selhurst, is SE. London... so is West Norwood Cemetery, my contact there is Bob Flanagan (who was over here in NZ a few months ago, great meeting up with him!) He is Chairman of Friends of West Norwood Cemetery. My connections with Norwood, educated at Upper Norwood.. as ex Streathamite! Adele Pentony-Graham Carterton District Early Settlers Researcher Carterton Cemetery Clareville Taphophile Group

Hi Dorri, Have you tried the searching for Thames Watermen and Lightermen.  There is ahandy referece in this link  http://www.parishregister.com/newsletters/0506.html Also, The Docklands Museum is worth checking out.  Follow this link and search for Watermen. http://www.museumindocklands.org.uk/English/Collections/ Also, the National Maritime Museum may be able to help.  http://www.nmm.ac.uk/ With best wishes  Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. ________________________________ From: Dorri Roughley <dorri_roughley@hotmail.co.uk> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Sun, 1 November, 2009 21:13:06 Subject: [SRY] John MATTHEWS, Robert Whittaker and others Hello, Thought I would be able to solve this one with the 1911 census but am out of luck. This family seems to disappear and I cannot find any of them on the 1911 census, death index or positively on a passenger list. My 3gt Uncle - John MATTHEWS b. 21 Mar 1853 in Rotherhithe, last known sighting 1901 in Brixton.  Regretfully his name makes his death a little difficult to find.  He owned his own cartage business, and at one time some lighter barges on the Thames, inherited from his father. His wife, Louisa Mary WALSH, was born 1852 in Norfolk, there is no matching BMD index record for her death between 1901 and 1911.  Plot thickens as I cannot find out what became of any of their children that survive to adulthood. Daughter - Louise Emma Elizabeth, b. 1 Oct 1873, marries Robert WHITTAKER in Newington, 24 Jul 1897, he is down as a M.M. Chief Officer at Newhaven, Sussex.  I cannot find these two in the 1901 or 1911 census returns or a death for Louise.  Any ideas on what an M.M. Chief Officer please? Son - Charles Walsh MATTHEWS b. 1876, Bermondsey, marries Ena Dorriss MILHOUSE in 1898, they appear on the 1901 census at Southwark, but again they are missing off the 1911 census.  She was born @ 1876 in Western Australia. Son - Arthur James MATTHEWS b. 1875, Bermondsey, cannot find on the 1901 or 1911 census or a matching death. Son - John MATTHEWS  b. 1881, Rotherhithe, not found on the 1901 census, a little impossible to search for his death. Now my guess is some or all went to Australia....but they could have ended up anywhere. Ideas or sightings would be appreciated. Best Wishes, Dorri                         _________________________________________________________________ New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/buy/ *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at:  Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com.   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Carole, My first thought is a private school, although the head of household's occupation doesn't accord withthis idea.  It may be worth reseraching the LEAVER family a little further for clues.  However, was your ancestral family well off?  Lambeth was, and is, a poor borough but despite this, wealthy families did live in the borough. You say all family members were alive in 1911, so this dispenses with the practice of rehousing orphans.  I had orphaned ancestors from one family who were rehoused in Surrey and Lincolnshire. With best wishes Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. ________________________________ From: Carole Moon <carolefhs@yahoo.co.uk> To: Surrey List <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sun, 1 November, 2009 21:52:20 Subject: [SRY] William Frederick ETHERTON born 1898 Lambeth I have found my Great Uncle William Frederick ETHERTON born 1898 Lambeth on the 1911 census living in London Road Hook Hampshire as a boarder not with his parents Edward & Emily ETHERTON & siblings who were living at 7 Gye Street Buildings Lambeth.   There were 4 other boys from London boarded with this family in Hampshire details as follows.   Alfred John LEAVER head married age 47 born c1864 Market Gardener born Broadchalk Wiltshire   Emma Jane LEAVER wife married age 45 born c1866 born Holbeton Devon   Alfred Astidge LEAVER son single age 19 born c1892 apprentice engineering born Winchfield Hampshire   Ernest Albert NEWSON boarder age 12 born c1899 fishmongers errand boy born London   William Fredrick ETHERTON boarder age 12 born c1899 school born London   Joseph Henry FROST boarder age 12 born c1899 school born London   Joseph John WESTLAKE boarder age 9 born c1902 school born London   Albert CESSARI boarder age 8 born c1903 school born London   I have done a few checks on the other children and all appear to have family alive on the 1911 census and living in London. NEWSON fmily in Camberwell, WESTLAKE family in St Marylebone, CESSARI family in Kensington.    Does anyone have any ideas why these boys would have been boarders with this family in Hampshire?   If it is the case that they had been sent to an industrial wouldn't they have been living at the school?   Regards   Carole Moon                    Does any one have any ideas why the children were boarded with this family             *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at:  Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com.   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Tim, Be careful - Southwark Register Office in Peckham High Street, opposite Southwark Town Hall, and next door to Southwark's South House) charges about £20 for a certificate!  You are better off ordering certificates from the General Register Office £7.00 + P&P. By the way, who were Joseph Holland's employers - Coach Makers. Link to the GR site.  http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ With best wishes  Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. ________________________________ From: HILARY BLANFORD <hilaryblanford@btinternet.com> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Sun, 1 November, 2009 22:10:41 Subject: [SRY] Re Death: Holland, Joseph Richard Hallo Tim You can search yourself using   www.freebmd.org.uk and putting in 1891 as the start date.  Having said that I could not find an obvious candidate which makes me wonder if his registration was missed somewhere between registration and the compiltion of the national register.   If you seach for Genuki + Camberwell you should be able to find the address of the registration office, which will be in the LB of Southwark.   I'd guess that by 1891 the most likely place for his burial would be  a cemetery rather than a churchyard.   Camberwell New Cemetery has records for Camberwell Old Cemetery and Nunhead cemetery so you could Google for them or find them on the Genuki page.   The family looked comfortably off in 1891 so one assumes they could afford to pay for his funeral.  My only other thought is that if he entered a workhouse he might be sent to a Lambeth workhouse, because he was born there, and they may have had a contract with another cemetery.   Good hunting Hilary       Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 10:23:12 -0500 From: "Tim McGinnis" <tmcginnis@bmts.com> Subject: [SRY] Death: Holland, Joseph Richard To: <Eng-Surrey@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <DC174B60456A4F8EB824A8D45F8966EA@LAPTOP> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="Windows-1252" I would appreciate some help in finding the Death Record for my maternal gr.gr.grandfather, Joseph Richard Holland. Joseph was born in Dec 1808 in Lambeth, Surrey and he was the widower of Sarah Prudence Twopenny (sp). The last record of him I have found is the 1891 Census of Camberwell, Surrey, when he is living with his married granddaughter Kate Greenfield and family. Kate's husband is William Greenfield. There are several Joseph Holland in the death index and a few Joseph Richard Holland. I've ordered several of the most likely and none reference his deceased spouse or a known relative. It has become to expensive to keep making guesses! Does anyone have easy access to the death registrations that they might be able to do a lookup for me. I would have to guess that he died in Surrey as his granddaughter stayed in Camberwell until at least 1911. Joseph was a retired carriage decorator and saddler. His father was John and mother probably Ann Harris, but this is not proven conclusively. Thank you Tim   *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at:  Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com.   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

S Haslett, I am not sure whether you are new to genealogy,  I am guessing that you are, and am basing my advice on this assumption. Firstly, have you found the marriage of |Edward and Mary.  The marriage certificate will help with tracing parents.  I searched Free BMD, but could not find your couple.  I looked for the marriage of ROBERTS & SHORTLAND.  Then I tried Edward ROBERTS and Mary, and came up with a marriage in Alverstoke, Hants. Secondly, have you tried the other census years.  If you want to save on a subscription to Ancestry, then run your searches at your local reference library where there may be an Ancestry Libraries edition - free searches.  All you pay for is the printing of finds. (I pay 25p per sheet)  I have assumed that you are UK based. Roberts is a common surname.  However, Shortland is rarer and searches on SHORTLAND may reap rewards more quickly.  Also is it Edward E or Edward A?:-| Regards Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. ________________________________ From: S Haslett <s_haslett@hotmail.com> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Sun, 1 November, 2009 23:25:26 Subject: [SRY] ROBERTS Edward E ROBERTS  Edward E Am trying to find the parents and family of Edward E Roberts born circa 1837. The 1881 census entry for him:                 Dwelling:            109 Gloucester Rd                 Census Place:    St Pancras, London, Middlesex, England                                                 Marr      Age        Sex        Birthplace Edward A. ROBERTS        M            44          M            Kennington, Surrey, England                 Rel:        Head                 Occ:      Clerk Civil Service Mary J. ROBERTS              M            33          F              Ireland                 Rel:        Wife Elizabeth A. SHORTLAND              U            22          F              Plymouth, Devon, England                 Rel:        Sister In Law I would appreciate any information of Edward or his family.                         _________________________________________________________________ Need a place to rent, buy or share? Let us find your next place for you! http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/ *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at:  Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com.   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pam, Just in case,  Bromley's Central Library has a very good local studies section.  Follow this link http://www.bromley.gov.uk/libraries/librariesintheborough/local_studies_library.htm  The library should cover part of Norwood, and Beckenham.  Also, Beckenham Lobrary holds a good collection of Beckenham material of historical interest. I'm also contacting you off-list Richard  Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. ________________________________ From: Pam Hillier <pamhillier24@virginbroadband.com.au> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 2 November, 2009 5:42:35 Subject: Re: [SRY] CEMETERY HELP NORWOOD......please - William JamesHillier(1871) Hi Paul, thanks for that....my family are all around South Norwood, West Norwood, Croydon, Lewisham,  beckenham etc So I will not look into Ealing. Thankyou Cheers Pam > You are probably aware but Norwood near Southall in west London (in LB > Ealing) is not the same Norwood as those in south London (which are West > Norwood, Upper Norwood and South Norwood in LB Lambeth, Croydon and > Croydon respectivelythe message *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at:  Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com.   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message