Could he have died at sea? Cheers Jo in Leics jo.mason@swsmail.net holmested@one-name.org

Thanks so much, Keith. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Jacobs" <keithjacobs@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [SRY] Guildford Street/ Road > Hi Jan > > Great Guildford Street was and still is in Southwark, just south of the > river Thames and very close to the Globe Theatre so you should be able to > find it on Google earth or Streetmap.co.uk. However it is also listed as > Guildford Street, Southwark, in the A to Z of Victorian London. > > There is also a Guilford Street in Guildford which is a County Town in West > Surrey > > Regards > Keith Jacobs > GOONs Member 3453 > Researching the Baggarley name worldwide > see http://www.baggarley.one.name > > > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Brian, I am truly delighted that you have offered to get me a copy of this shipping record which sounds correct. It will be interesting to know if there are any other details available about James Smith. I the meantime I will re-read the diary and see if there is mention of a Christian name for Mrs White. No rush but many thanks. Glenys Kempshall New Zealand

Hello Are these records available online anywhere? I do not have an exact date only a four year period (definitely within the four years confirmed by a will) so realise a lookup is not possible. With thanks Anne Wiltshire Runaway Bay QLD Australia

The Exploring Surrey's Past website now contains a section on Woking Borough's First World War memorials, with photographs of the memorials and a database of the men listed on them. The database includes information on rank, regiment, age, date of death and other family details. Go to: http://www.exploringsurreyspast.org.uk/themes/subjects/military/woking_borou ghs_first_world_war_memorials or http://bit.ly/Memorials There is also an exhibition on display in the foyer at Surrey History Centre in Woking. Entrance is free. Opening times can be found at http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/surreyhistorycentre Jill Staines, Middlesex

>From The Ipswich Journal, Saturday, December 30, 1876; Issue 7487. DEATH MANNING. - 8th inst., at Dunedin, New Zealand, James MANNING, formerly in H.M.'s Service, Woolwich, subsequently resident at Ipswich and Gainsborough, aged 56 years.

On 4 Nov 2009, at 15:34, Barbara Mallyon wrote: > Hi Keith, > > Going back many years ago there were no A and B roads, they were > called road names to where they eventually lead to, in this case > Guildford Road/Street must have eventually lead to Guildford. Not necessarily so although obviously it is possible go there from Southwark. Liverpool Road in Islington does not lead directly to Liverpool, but was named after the Prime Minister of the day, Lord Liverpool. Roads have also often been named after former landholders, who sometimes had geographical surnames. Jay

Hello Jan, My message to Keith should have been sent to you, sorry about that Keith. Kind regards Barbara Lewis Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants. UK BarbaraMallyon@lewmal.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil & Jan Hearn" <neil.hearn3@bigpond.com> To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:57 PM Subject: [SRY] Guildford Street/ Road > Hi, > I have a marriage certificate for James Baker MOORE and Sarah > CORNWAY from 1846. They married at St George the Martyr, Southwark, > Surrey, giving their place of residence as Guildford St. Another of > my families has an address in 1851 census of Great Guildford Road, > Southwark. A fellow researcher has now found a MOORE family who > lived in Guidford St, Guildford before this time when a large amount > of property was left to a William MOORE, father of a James. > I'm a little confused with all the references to Guildford > thoroughfares. Can anyone assist please? > Jan

I have always approached the office local to my certificate details or and always glad to pay the modest charge for printouts from all parts of the country and london. Once in Wales it looked like it would wipe out my pension! But today ROYAL KINGSTON said I can go to the British Library ( I wish) or I can inspect them in Kingston and make notes myself. It would take half a day to get there!! Has something recently happened about the ER ?as Ive received a few pages from Camberwell this week. Josi

Hi Keith, Going back many years ago there were no A and B roads, they were called road names to where they eventually lead to, in this case Guildford Road/Street must have eventually lead to Guildford. In Guildford there is the Portsmouth Road, this is the old road that leads to Portsmouth. Our roads have changed now with A roads Bypasses and M roads Motorways, the B road are the more minor roads. Hope this helps. Kind regards Barbara Lewis Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants. UK BarbaraMallyon@lewmal.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Jacobs" <keithjacobs@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [SRY] Guildford Street/ Road > Hi Jan > > Great Guildford Street was and still is in Southwark, just south of > the > river Thames and very close to the Globe Theatre so you should be > able to > find it on Google earth or Streetmap.co.uk. However it is also > listed as > Guildford Street, Southwark, in the A to Z of Victorian London. > > There is also a Guilford Street in Guildford which is a County Town > in West > Surrey > > Regards > Keith Jacobs > GOONs Member 3453 > Researching the Baggarley name worldwide > see http://www.baggarley.one.name

Hi, I have a marriage certificate for James Baker MOORE and Sarah CORNWAY from 1846. They married at St George the Martyr, Southwark, Surrey, giving their place of residence as Guildford St. Another of my families has an address in 1851 census of Great Guildford Road, Southwark. A fellow researcher has now found a MOORE family who lived in Guidford St, Guildford before this time when a large amount of property was left to a William MOORE, father of a James. I'm a little confused with all the references to Guildford thoroughfares. Can anyone assist please? Jan

Dear Glenys, I had a quick look at the shipping records on line for arrivals in Melbourne in 1857 held by the Public Record Office Victoria (PROV). Under the Index to Assisted British Immigration 1839-1871 I found a James Smith arrival in Melbourne in November 1857: Name Smith, James Age 17 Month Nov Year 1857 Ship "Melbourne" Book 13 Page 68 There was another identical reference Book 11A Page 119. (I don't know why there are sometimes duplicate items in the Index, but I found that recently with one of my arrivals - in that case there were two different registers containing some duplicate information and some unique. Eg I recall that one register had information about future employment, address where the passenger would live in Victoria etc.) Also on the same ship were a few Whites: Name White, Janet Age 22 Month Nov Year 1857 Ship "Melbourne" Book 13 Page 66 (With duplicate Book 11A Page 118) Name White, Barbara Age 2 Month Nov Year 1857 Ship "Melbourne" Book 13 Page 66 (With duplicate "White Child" Book 11A Page 118) Name White, Elizabeth Age 22 Month Nov Year 1857 Ship "Melbourne" Book 13 Page 70 (no duplicate) One can inspect film of the ship's registers at the State Library in Melbourne and make copies. I go there from time to time and would be happy to assist if needed and if you are happy to wait for "a convenient time". An intriguing story, how wonderful to have a diary from that time. Best wishes in your "chase", Sincerely, Brian Wall Melbourne, Australia

Hi Jan Great Guildford Street was and still is in Southwark, just south of the river Thames and very close to the Globe Theatre so you should be able to find it on Google earth or Streetmap.co.uk. However it is also listed as Guildford Street, Southwark, in the A to Z of Victorian London. There is also a Guilford Street in Guildford which is a County Town in West Surrey Regards Keith Jacobs GOONs Member 3453 Researching the Baggarley name worldwide see http://www.baggarley.one.name

Hi, Looking at the Victorian Archives: http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/PROVguides/PROVguide023/PROVguide02 3.jsp There is a James Smith, 17 years of age, arriving in Melbourne, Victoria, in November 1857 on board the ship "Melbourne" Book 13 Page: 68 There were 3 females with the surname of "White" - Elizabeth 22y, Janet 23y + child & Janet 22y + child on the same voyage. At that same site under the Passenger lists heading - there is also a link to search "Index to Outward Passengers to Interstate, UK & Foreign Ports 1852-1896". There are a few James Smiths going to NZ - you need to go through & check against the ages that are given. Unless you have one or both of the parent's names - how are you going to prove that you have the right person when you find a possible family in England? What about an Obit in the local newspaper? Be aware that quite often a middle name was added at the baptism & may not be found on a birth certificate. Also, not all births were registered in England in this time period. Hope this has helped . . . BonnieB Brisbane, Australia Subject: Re: [SRY] James Jackson Smith Good evening Pam, Thanks for your effort. James Jackson Smith married in New Zealand but on his marriage certificate it says 15 February 1877 in Roxburgh New Zealand - born in London England so I think it was 21st January 1840 He died in New Zealand 17 June 1912 and the death certificate states he was in his 73rd year so that would be 1840... he had been born in England but had been in Roxburgh for 38 years... the diary states he was in Ida Valley and Italian Gully - all part of Gabriel's Gully Otago I don't have emigration records and I am guessing the year as he states in his diary ( only have 5 years of diary that he had been '18 September 1869: ......Mrs White died. I miss her as she was the only ship mate I know of from the old country..it is now 12 years since I first met her on board the Melbourne barque from Liverpool to Melbourne. She was a young woman then and I was quite a boy..how time flies." I have hunted for "The Melbourne" to no avail.... that means 1857 on the "barque Melbourne Barque: 305 tons" I am assuming that he came to NZ in 1865 when this diary begins or before... not conclusive about when he arrived I am afraid.... could have been any year between 1857 -1865 but he certainly was involved in the Gold Rush in New Zealand I have read the diary really closely and that was when I discovered his two sisters names - very common I know. My mum was a Smith and she said " you just about have to say what you have for dinner when you say your name is Smith!!!" Does any of this help? Glenys Kempshall

Good evening Pam, Thanks for your effort. James Jackson Smith married in New Zealand but on his marriage certificate it says 15 February 1877 in Roxburgh New Zealand - born in London England so I think it was 21st January 1840 He died in New Zealand 17 June 1912 and the death certificate states he was in his 73rd year so that would be 1840... he had been born in England but had been in Roxburgh for 38 years... the diary states he was in Ida Valley and Italian Gully - all part of Gabriel's Gully Otago I don't have emigration records and I am guessing the year as he states in his diary ( only have 5 years of diary that he had been '18 September 1869: ......Mrs White died. I miss her as she was the only ship mate I know of from the old country..it is now 12 years since I first met her on board the Melbourne barque from Liverpool to Melbourne. She was a young woman then and I was quite a boy..how time flies." I have hunted for "The Melbourne" to no avail.... that means 1857 on the "barque Melbourne Barque: 305 tons" I am assuming that he came to NZ in 1865 when this diary begins or before... not conclusive about when he arrived I am afraid.... could have been any year between 1857 -1865 but he certainly was involved in the Gold Rush in New Zealand I have read the diary really closely and that was when I discovered his two sisters names - very common I know. My mum was a Smith and she said " you just about have to say what you have for dinner when you say your name is Smith!!!" Does any of this help? Glenys Kempshall

Thanks Michael for your note on the Surrey Digest. I appreciate your input. Someone had suggested this death entry, but I knew myself that it could not be correct. I just posted it hoping someone might be able to look further for me as I do not have access to FMP or Ancestry. Some kind subscriber did find her and sent the details off line. She actually died as "Louisa Thorpe" in 1943 at the age of 85 which certainly agrees with her birth date of 1858. As I had already thanked those people I did not post another note on the Digest about locating her correct death. I am pleased to read of so many people assisting others on the Digest from time to time. I very rarely post a note, but this search has been very fruitful. Many thanks again Michael for your note. Regards Desley Brisbane, Australia

Hallo Gladys have you looked at www.theshipslist.com? This reference gives the 1857 sailing dates for the Melbourne which should help you a bit further. http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/1857-1858.htm I found the 1858 passenger list from the home pages of this site and the 1857 might be there as well. I wonder whether the Melbourne sailed on to NZ, or whether your James, Mrs White etc sailed to NZ at a later date? Hilary > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 22:47:29 +1300 > From: "Mike and Glen" <mikeandglen@xtra.co.nz> > Subject: [SRY] James Jackson Smith > To: <Eng-Surrey@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000701ca5ba1$7e75c4b0$7b614e10$@co.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain;    > charset="us-ascii" > > > > Good evening > > Looking for James Jackson Smith born 21 January 1837 with > sisters Mary and > Caroline. All I know is that he was born in England and > left for Australia > in 1857 from Liverpool. > > Any help would be great. > > Glenys Kempshall > > ------------------------------ > Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 23:53:29 +1300 > From: "Mike and Glen" <mikeandglen@xtra.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [SRY] James Jackson Smith > To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000001ca5c73$e1430260$a3c90720$@co.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain;    > charset="us-ascii" > > Good evening Pam, > Thanks for your effort.  > James Jackson Smith married in New Zealand but on his > marriage certificate > it says  15 February 1877 in Roxburgh New Zealand - > born in London England > so I think it was 21st January 1840 > He died in New Zealand 17 June 1912 and the death > certificate states he was > in his 73rd year so that would be 1840... he had been born > in England but > had been in Roxburgh for 38 years... the diary states he > was in Ida Valley > and Italian Gully - all part of Gabriel's Gully Otago > I don't have emigration records and I am guessing the year > as he states in > his diary ( only have 5 years of diary that he had been '18 > September 1869: > ......Mrs White died.  I miss her as she was the only > ship mate I know of from > the old country..it is now 12 years since I first met her > on board the > Melbourne barque from Liverpool to Melbourne.  She was > a young woman then > and I was quite a boy..how time flies."  I have hunted > for "The Melbourne" > to no avail.... that means 1857 on the "barque Melbourne > Barque: 305 tons" > I am assuming that he came to NZ in 1865 when this diary > begins or before... > not conclusive about when he arrived I am afraid.... could > have been any > year between 1857 -1865 but he certainly was involved in > the Gold Rush in > New Zealand > I have read the diary really closely and that was when I > discovered his two > sisters names - very common I know.  My mum was a > Smith and she said " you > just about have to say what you have for dinner when you > say your name is > Smith!!!" > Does any of this help? > Glenys Kempshall

"Using the Society of Genealogists Library" is a one hour talk on 18 November starting at 11:00am, with the society's librarian, Sue Gibbons. The Clerkenwell based SoG is at14 Charterhouse Buildings, Goswell Road, London EC1M 7BA (not far from LMA and the old FRC building). Attendance is free of charge but places must be booked in advance. Booking can be done online via the SOG website: http://www.sog.org.uk/events/calendar.shtml where there is also detail of all the other events. Ann Surrey Admin

Hi Glenys, I have done some hunting around and have found a load of bits and bobs that MAY come in handy at some point. ......James, Caroline and Mary smith are such common names 1700 Carolines to start with on 1851 census. Putting in James J doesn't much joy either. A few things here, and because you haven't given much information I can only give generalities. 1. If James Jackson smith married in Australia then you may find some indicators in the indices........these are available at your local LDS church. In SA we have victoria, NSW and SA BMD's on fiche....so this would be your first port of call. 2. The death indices "may" tell you where he was born or at least limit it to the county......they don't always, but worth a look. 3. You don't say whether you have the emmigration records or where he landed when arriving from Liverpool, or the ship he sailed on. If you don't have this, then I suggest you might need to go this way. There are various shipping lists for arrivals in Australia, plus the Migration Museums in each state very often carries records or can point you in the right direction. With any luck there might be more information gathered there. Migration Museums are common in most states I believe and usually found around the docks for obvious reasons. Sydney and Adelaide have one. You main library may have shipping arrivals. 4. One thing I did find in my searching is a Marriage in Godmanchester Huntingdonshire England for a James Jackson smith marrying an Elizabeth Harriet CULPIN. They married in Godmanchester on 16/12/1868, he was 30 and she was 26.....father Edward Jackson Smith Yes I know........yours was out in Oz in 1857.....but naming patterns - Smith may be common but the combination of James Jackson AND Smith may be worthing looking into. Some Hunts records may be online (now in Cambridgeshire) http://www.cfhs.org.uk/Search.html 5. when googling there is also mention of Edward jackson smith in Lancashire which is up around where he left for Australia...... Might be worth following up at some point. http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Allerton/allhallows/baptisms_1876-1919.html 6. Just on the off chance that the Edward Jackson smith and Elizabeth Culpin are connected 'somehow" there are only two that show up in Hunts.....1851 census......Edward J smith born circa 1840 pupil from Canaghshire Ireland at St Mary's Hunts and Elizabeth Culpin 1851 census aged 8 born St Ives hunts father Richard, 33 born St Ives, wife Mary A, 32, born Peterborough Northants, Harriett J, 5, born Finsbury Msx, William R, 3, born London, Mary A, dau 11, born St Ives. Can't find much else without more information Cheers pam from Adelaide Australia Good evening Looking for James Jackson Smith born 21 January 1837 with sisters Mary and Caroline. All I know is that he was born in England and left for Australia in 1857 from Liverpool. Any help would be great. Glenys Kempshall

Hi Carole Hook is not so very far from the Surrey boundary round Farnham - could there be a family connection there? I have a vague recollection of you having Farnham connections but it might be another senior moment so just ignore me if I'm imagining things! I'm intrigued as I live near Hook and pass through it frequently. Even now there is not a great deal in London Road - now the A30. Most of modern day Hook is away from the the London Road and most of the area is still quite rural compared with many towns. If nobody comes up with an answer maybe Hook Local History Group will be able to help with details of any schools there in 1911: http://www.hantsfish.hants.gov.uk/hantsfish/searchhantsfish/servicedetail.htm?id=7011 Alternatively you could try Willis Museum Basingstoke where they may have street directories or other information on Hook: http://www3.hants.gov.uk/museum/willis-museum/local-studies-willis.htm Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carole Moon" <carolefhs@yahoo.co.uk> I have found my Great Uncle William Frederick ETHERTON born 1898 Lambeth on the 1911 census living in London Road Hook Hampshire as a boarder not with his parents Edward & Emily ETHERTON & siblings who were living at 7 Gye Street Buildings Lambeth. There were 4 other boys from London boarded with this family in Hampshire details as follows. Alfred John LEAVER head married age 47 born c1864 Market Gardener born Broadchalk Wiltshire Emma Jane LEAVER wife married age 45 born c1866 born Holbeton Devon Alfred Astidge LEAVER son single age 19 born c1892 apprentice engineering born Winchfield Hampshire Ernest Albert NEWSON boarder age 12 born c1899 fishmongers errand boy born London William Fredrick ETHERTON boarder age 12 born c1899 school born London Joseph Henry FROST boarder age 12 born c1899 school born London Joseph John WESTLAKE boarder age 9 born c1902 school born London Albert CESSARI boarder age 8 born c1903 school born London I have done a few checks on the other children and all appear to have family alive on the 1911 census and living in London. NEWSON fmily in Camberwell, WESTLAKE family in St Marylebone, CESSARI family in Kensington. Does anyone have any ideas why these boys would have been boarders with this family in Hampshire? If it is the case that they had been sent to an industrial wouldn't they have been living at the school? Regards Carole Moon