Hi I am looking for details of the death of John BROWN in Tooting. Also looking for his marriage to Ann but think this probably took place in Edenbridge. The only details I have on him is as follows:- John BROWN married Ann nee ?Edwards (not sure of surname) in Edenbridge, Kent 1st child John born c1811 Edenbridge 2nd child Edward born c1816 Edenbridge 3rd child Thomas born c1820 Edenbridge 4th child Charles born c1823 Tooting 5th child Martha born c1823 Tooting* 6th child Daniel born c1829 Tooting* Not sure about the last two* John died before 1841 census as Ann is noted as widow I have been looking for a long time for more details of this family, but as you can imagine with BROWN!!! it is not an easy task. Any help you can give me would be gratefully received. Regards Maureen -- Maureen Burton Member ESFHS

Geoff I googled "Kings arms Kingston" and found http://www.totaltravel.co.uk/travel/london/south-greater-london/kingston-upo n-thames/accommodation/hotels/the-kings-arms-hotel-1 Regards Keith Jacobs GOONs Member 3453 Researching the Baggarley name worldwide see http://www.baggarley.one.name > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

I am seeking some help in deciphering a census record please. In 1851 James MOORE (59) lived with his wife, Elizabeth (61) and daughter, Martha (22) in St Saviour's parish, Southwark. She was a Fancy Bag Maker. I'm having trouble reading the address, occupation and place of birth for James. Thanks so much, Jan

I have received an overwhelming response from the list re Henry Gannell. Thank you for all your assistance which is most appreciated. I now have many new leads to follow up. Barbara

Thanks to Chris and Ann for more colour added to my forwarded reply. Chris willis in Yateley, Hants -----Original Message----- From: Ann Sargeant <ann.sargeant@ntlworld.com> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Date: 07 November 2009 09:06 Subject: [SRY] Wheatsheaf and Barley Mow, Mount St - was] BARNES Family >> By the way, no pubs left, Chris W., and many cottages gone. I think, from >> memory, the Cemetery Lodge was lost in a fire which also destroyed the >> records of the old part of the cemetery. Those for the new part survive. > >According to Mark Sturley's book "Breweries and Public Houses of >Guildford":- > >The Wheatsheaf, Mount St - last recorded occupant was William Jeffree >GERRARD 1945 to 1955 and then it was closed down. Became used as business >premises. > >"The Barley Mow, Mount St - The last known occupant is given as Mrs G BUCKLE >in 1901 and it was said - from memory of an elderly resident (Allen >Batchelor) - to have been closed down by 1908. I suspect Allen Batchelor >is connected to my family but have never been able to prove it. > >Ann > >

Is there any historical info either on the web or elsewhere about pubs in Kingston? (Since this list had pubs as its monthly topic in Jan 2007, when I made a query about my 2x greatgrandfather Charles CHADWICK, I've found out that he was the landlord of the King's Arms in Lion Gate, next to Hampton Court Palace, during the 1790s. They have a web page, but with minimal info.) Geoff Geoffrey Chew g.chew@rhul.ac.uk ________________________________ From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of Ann Sargeant According to Mark Sturley's book "Breweries and Public Houses of Guildford":- The Wheatsheaf, Mount St - last recorded occupant was William Jeffree GERRARD 1945 to 1955 and then it was closed down. Became used as business premises. "The Barley Mow, Mount St - The last known occupant is given as Mrs G BUCKLE in 1901 and it was said - from memory of an elderly resident (Allen Batchelor) - to have been closed down by 1908. I suspect Allen Batchelor is connected to my family but have never been able to prove it.

HOUSEHOLD FROST JAMES CLARKE M 1858 53 St Olave (Bermondsey) London HOUSEHOLD FROST MARY F 1862 49 St Olave (Bermondsey) London HOUSEHOLD FROST MARY F 1852 59 St Olave (Bermondsey) London HOUSEHOLD FROST MABEL F 1889 22 St Olave (Bermondsey) London HOUSEHOLD FROST IVY F 1900 11 St Olave (Bermondsey) London HOUSEHOLD FROST ELZTH EMMA F 1854 57 St Olave (Bermondsey) London HOUSEHOLD FROST EMMA LOUISE F 1875 36 St Olave (Bermondsey) London HOUSEHOLD FROST BEATRICE F 1895 16 St Olave (Bermondsey) London HOUSEHOLD FROST GEORGE M 1845 66 St Olave (Bermondsey) London HOUSEHOLD FROST GEORGE M 1891 20 St Olave (Bermondsey) London HOUSEHOLD FROST GEORGE M 1880 31 St Olave (Bermondsey) London HOUSEHOLD FROST GEORGE M 1861 50 St Olave (Bermondsey) London -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of KPN5010@wmconnect.com Sent: 06 November 2009 21:22 To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: [SRY] Fwd: 1911 census IHi Everyone, Could someone be kind enough to tell me if a James C Frost who lived in Bermondsey or is it London in 1911 census?James was born1857 in Peckham,Surrey .He's married to Mary 40Yrs old,Islington I found him in 1901 James is 44 yrs .Engine Fitter They have 6 children Emma 16 James 14 Mabel 12 George 10 Beatrice 6 Ivy 1 Appreciate any help given Thanks Laura USA > eng-surrey@rootsweb.com > *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.49/2480 - Release Date: 11/04/09 07:37:00

Thank you Richard. Laura

> By the way, no pubs left, Chris W., and many cottages gone. I think, from > memory, the Cemetery Lodge was lost in a fire which also destroyed the > records of the old part of the cemetery. Those for the new part survive. According to Mark Sturley's book "Breweries and Public Houses of Guildford":- The Wheatsheaf, Mount St - last recorded occupant was William Jeffree GERRARD 1945 to 1955 and then it was closed down. Became used as business premises. "The Barley Mow, Mount St - The last known occupant is given as Mrs G BUCKLE in 1901 and it was said - from memory of an elderly resident (Allen Batchelor) - to have been closed down by 1908. I suspect Allen Batchelor is connected to my family but have never been able to prove it. Ann

I don't understand this - when I do an address search for "Mount" in Guildford registration district I find umpteen results, including "Mount St", "Mount Street", "The Mount", and various named cottages on the street. What's more, there are 8 results for BARNES, and, as Ann S. says, a bit of intelligent searching, using the index alone, should find who's head of household and how the rest fit into the picture (or not!) By the way, no pubs left, Chris W., and many cottages gone. I think, from memory, the Cemetery Lodge was lost in a fire which also destroyed the records of the old part of the cemetery. Those for the new part survive. Best wishes, Chris Townsend ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Chambers" <anne.chambers@bigpond.com> To: <nigel.callaghan@ntlworld.com>; <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [SRY] BARNES Family > An address search for 'The Mount' or 'Mount' gets no results. There are 3 > pages of BARNES in Guildford - what > names are you looking for ? > > Anne > South Australia > > Nigel Callaghan wrote: >> Might I ask if someone with access to the 1911 census would be kind >> enough >> to look up the BARNES family of 14 The Mount, Guildford. Were any of the >> Barnes family still living at that address then? >> >> Best regards from >> >> Nigel

Brilliant, I intend to put this in my Church's December Magazine!  I will acknowledge you as the finder Michael. <<G>>  Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. ________________________________ From: "MICHAELCOOMBER@aol.com" <MICHAELCOOMBER@aol.com> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Fri, 6 November, 2009 15:19:27 Subject: [SRY] BRIGGS, JONES, CLEAVER, ROBINSON and SLADE ( 1889 ) >From Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper (  London, England ), Sunday, January 20, 1889; Issue 2409. RAID ON THE  CHRISTMAS PUDDING. -  George BRIGGS, 10, and Joseph JONES, 9, were charged  at Southwark police-court, on Wednesday, with breaking and entering into the  dwelling-house of John Thomas CLEAVER, 20, East-street, Bermondsey, and  stealing three live linnets in cages and other articles, value 15 shillings, the  property of the prosecutor. About five o'clock on the morning of the 9th inst.  the prisoners were found by the prosecutor asleep in his kitchen. He missed his  birds, which they said another boy had taken. It further appeared that they had  rummaged the cupboards, and helped themselves to bread and cheese and Christmas  pudding. Mr. ROBINSON, Industrial School officer, told the magistrate that  the prisoners were both bad boys, and Mr. SLADE ordered them to be sent to an  industrial school.  *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at:  Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com.   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yesterday, I listened to a 15 minute essay written and read out by Professor Jay Winter on BBC Radio 4's pm programme.  (I parked up to listen.) The essay is called "War wounds"  You can access the transcript via the Radio 4 pm blog.  Google "PM blog." and navigate or search for Jay Winter. If you cannot be bothered to do this, although I hope you will try as the page you open at first is moving, then click on this link.  http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/11/jay_winters_essay_war_wounds.shtml  Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K.

Laura, Bermondsey used to be in Surrey.  Then, it became a part of SE London.  The area is located just South of Tower Bridge, and is administered by the London Borough of Southwark.  Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. ________________________________ From: "KPN5010@wmconnect.com" <KPN5010@wmconnect.com> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Fri, 6 November, 2009 21:22:25 Subject: [SRY] Fwd: 1911 census IHi Everyone, Could someone be kind enough to tell me if a James C Frost who lived in Bermondsey or is it London in 1911 census?James was born1857 in Peckham,Surrey .He's married to Mary 40Yrs old,Islington I found him in 1901 James is 44 yrs .Engine Fitter They have 6 children Emma 16 James 14 Mabel 12 George 10 Beatrice 6 Ivy 1 Appreciate any help given Thanks Laura USA > eng-surrey@rootsweb.com > *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at:  Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com.   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Margaret, The occupation may be foreman of the Dustmen. In 19th Century London 2 types of job to do with cleansing in public areas were Dustmen, who collected refuse, and the Nightmen, who cleared soil from latrines.  These occupations are described in Mayhew's book "London Labour and the London Poor."  This book is well worth reading. It is published byPenguin Classics.  Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. ________________________________ From: Margaret Cambridge <talktomarg@shaw.ca> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Sat, 7 November, 2009 6:09:42 Subject: Re: [SRY] MOORE The address seems to be Grove and the address two above is Grove House. Under that in brackets it looks like (Dust Garde).  The occupation looks like "Foreman of Dust Garde.  Whatever that means.  Birth Place may be Cressing, Essex. Marg

There is a London Pubs website that links to individual pubs and then includes extracts from old trade directories for the town/village concerned + lists of tradesmen and notable inhabitants. Have not been able to find it today - it had a lot of Essex pubs - not sure if Surrey/Kingston has been included. I expect someone from the list knows what I'm talking about! Your best bets (and not on line, sorry) are probably 1. Google for "Kingston upon Thames" and local studies 2. Licensing applications = probably held at LMA. There is a published guide to the whereabouts of various applications. You can google to find it 3. Old newspapers, either local library or the Newspaper Library at Colindale 4. Old trade directories - Guildhall Library has an excellent collection or try the "historical directories" site hosted by Leicester university. Kingston library probably has some as well 5. I believe there is a CD of the 1834-24 edition of Pigots Directory that costs about a fiver. It's not fully searchable but you'll be able to find the pubs and publicans 6. Might be interesting, given its position, to find out who actually owned the pub as well Hilary > Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 12:52:28 -0000 > From: "Chew G" <G.Chew@rhul.ac.uk> > Subject: Re: [SRY] Surrey Pubs [was Wheatsheaf and Barley > Mow, Mount >     St] > To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: >     <E5F8E4518B68AA439EE1BDFCF08ABE7103638EB9@EXCH-DB-02.cc.rhul.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Is there any historical info either on the web or elsewhere > about pubs in Kingston?  (Since this list had pubs as > its monthly topic in Jan 2007, when I made a query about my > 2x greatgrandfather Charles CHADWICK, I've found out that he > was the landlord of the King's Arms in Lion Gate, next to > Hampton Court Palace, during the 1790s. They have a web > page, but with minimal info.) > > Geoff > > Geoffrey Chew > g.chew@rhul.ac.uk > > ________________________________

*Not for List discussion Please* Unlike some other online data, the 1911 census is available from just the one provider whose Terms and Conditions of use are very specific. For this reason requests for full lookups in the 1911 census should not be sent to the List at present. Non-FMP subscribers need to be aware that 1911 census access for FMP subscribers is "rationed" at present, and additionally there are terms and conditions of use. Whether or not the site chooses to rigorously implement the "rationing" or to enforce the terms and conditions is their prerogative - they may do so at any time without warning. So in asking FMP subscribers to help, one would also (albeit unwittingly) be asking them to put their subscription at risk. Over the years subscribers to various ppv sites have occasionally lost their subscriptions for excessive use, or for contravening the conditions of use. Please be aware it can, and does, sometimes happen and it would be very sad to have this happen through innocently trying to help others so FMP users are urged to read all the Ts&Cs. **All is not lost** - the subject of 1911 census and how to get the best from it for Surrey research is very welcome on the List. The 1911 Index is free to use by everyone and with imaginative use of the advanced search facilities it is possible to gain quite an amount of information. Fellow List members may be able to help with index searches if you are having no luck yourself and they may be able to offer good ideas and suggestions for getting the most from searches. The National Archives, at Kew Surrey, provide free access to all the censuses including 1911, to Documents Online, and to some of Ancestry's records, via the terminals in the Open Reading Room. Booking is not applicable, and it's usually easy to find a free terminal although at times it gets crowded. Intending visitors can check the TNA website to see which days have coach parties booked, and maybe thus avoid the busiest days. Someone going to Kew (or other archive) may be able to check the odd item for you. For those in UK there is free access at several other locations but it seems to be a fluid situation at the moment as credits financed by TNA are being used up quickly, so best to check locally before making a special journey. Ann List Admin

I think that the last word for James' occupation is Yard. Madeleine ________________________________ From: Neil & Jan Hearn <neil.hearn3@bigpond.com> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Sat, 7 November, 2009 4:56:13 Subject: [SRY] MOORE I am seeking some help in deciphering a census record please. In 1851 James MOORE (59) lived with his wife, Elizabeth (61) and daughter, Martha (22) in St Saviour's parish, Southwark. She was a Fancy Bag Maker. I'm having trouble reading the address, occupation and place of birth for James. Thanks so much, Jan *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at:  Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com.   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Anne, Fantastic. Thank you very much for taking the trouble to find George and Melita Holland in the 1911 census. Much appreciated. Kind regards. Patrick Holland Anne Chambers wrote: > RG14PN1971 RG78PN69 RD25 SD1 ED29 SN61 > 24 Ethelred Street, Lambeth > > HOLLAND, George James Head Married M 40 1871 Motor Cab Washer (Gen Motor Cab Company) b London > Newington > HOLLAND, Melitia Wife Married 18 years 5 children 4 still living F 43 1868 b Hampshire Alresford > HOLLAND, Louisa Daughter Single F 17 1894 General Servant Domestic b London Lambeth > HOLLAND, George Son M 14 1897 Warehouse Boy b London Lambeth > HOLLAND, William Son M 12 1899 School b London Lambeth > HOLLAND, Edward Son M 9 1902 School b London Lambeth > > > Anne > South Australia > > > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

The address seems to be Grove and the address two above is Grove House. Under that in brackets it looks like (Dust Garde). The occupation looks like "Foreman of Dust Garde. Whatever that means. Birth Place may be Cressing, Essex. Marg >From the Beautiful British Columbia Cariboo Region, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil & Jan Hearn" <neil.hearn3@bigpond.com> To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 8:56 PM Subject: [SRY] MOORE I am seeking some help in deciphering a census record please. In 1851 James MOORE (59) lived with his wife, Elizabeth (61) and daughter, Martha (22) in St Saviour's parish, Southwark. She was a Fancy Bag Maker. I'm having trouble reading the address, occupation and place of birth for James. Thanks so much, Jan

Interesting - what with all the bird names, it sounds like it's going to be a bit of a dead duck ! What's the point in having yet another online index (FreeBMD & Ancestry are there already) if the actual registers aren't going to be available online ? Anne South Australia Ann Sargeant wrote: > This news will doubtless be of interest to Surrey researchers. > > The General Register Office has just announced that the digitisation of > GRO's > births, marriages and deaths records is moving forward and a new project, > called the Digitisation and Indexing (D&I) Project, has been initiated. > > The new project covers the digitisation of the records themselves together > with indexing and upgrading the online certificate ordering process. The > digitisation page on the IPS corporate website has been updated and further > details including a Q& A can be accessed via > http://www.ips.gov.uk/cps/rde/xchg/ips_live/hs.xsl/1090.htm > > Ann > Surrey Admin >