Can anyone else find a record in the 1841 census for James MOORE, born 1792 in Essex please? His wife was Elizabeth who was born in 1791, also in Essex. They may have children James (b, 1822); Mary Elizabeth and Martha (b, 1829) with them. They are likely to be living in the Southwark area. Many thanks, Jan

Hi Pam, The "Melbourne" arrived in Victoria arriving in Melbourne in November 1857. How do I go about the immigration museum as this is all I know. Glen -----Original Message----- From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pam Hillier Sent: Sunday, 8 November 2009 9:19 p.m. To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SRY] James Jackson Smith Glen If he married here in Oz, or had some kids I could help you as I volunteer one morning a week at our local LDS. I can only suggest you try and get the emmigration records. If you know from the shipslist where they landed and where he likely got off, google search and email the immigration museum for that state and see where that leads. I am afraid I was born in Kent UK, and apart from a couple of convicts way back, I have not had to deal with this. Happy hunting and yell if you need Aussie records. Pam from Adelaide Australia > Good evening Pam, > Thanks for your effort. > James Jackson Smith married in New Zealand but on his marriage certificate > it says 15 February 1877 in Roxburgh New Zealand - born in London England > so I think it was 21st January 1840 > He died in New Zealand 17 June 1912 and the death certificate states he > was > in his 73rd year so that would be 1840... he had been born in England but > had been in Roxburgh for 38 years... the diary states he was in Ida Valley > and Italian Gully - all part of Gabriel's Gully Otago > I don't have emigration records and I am guessing the year as he states in > his diary ( only have 5 years of diary that he had been '18 September > 1869: > ......Mrs White died. I miss her as she was the only ship mate I know of > from > the old country..it is now 12 years since I first met her on board the > Melbourne barque from Liverpool to Melbourne. She was a young woman then > and I was quite a boy..how time flies." I have hunted for "The Melbourne" > to no avail.... that means 1857 on the "barque Melbourne Barque: 305 tons" > I am assuming that he came to NZ in 1865 when this diary begins or > before... > not conclusive about when he arrived I am afraid.... could have been any > year between 1857 -1865 but he certainly was involved in the Gold Rush in > New Zealand > I have read the diary really closely and that was when I discovered his > two > sisters names - very common I know. My mum was a Smith and she said " you > just about have to say what you have for dinner when you say your name is > Smith!!!" > Does any of this help? > Glenys Kempshall > > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Try http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=23 http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/component/daPublicBaseContainer?component=daViewSeries&entityId=14 http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/PROVguides/PROVguide052/PROVguide052.jsp Google is your friend :) Anne South Asutralia Mike and Glen wrote: > Hi Pam, > The "Melbourne" arrived in Victoria arriving in Melbourne in November 1857. > How do I go about the immigration museum as this is all I know. > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pam Hillier > Sent: Sunday, 8 November 2009 9:19 p.m. > To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SRY] James Jackson Smith > > Glen > If he married here in Oz, or had some kids I could help you as I volunteer > one morning a week at our local LDS. > I can only suggest you try and get the emmigration records. If you know > from the shipslist where they landed and where he likely got off, google > search and email the immigration museum for that state and see where that > leads. > I am afraid I was born in Kent UK, and apart from a couple of convicts way > back, I have not had to deal with this. > Happy hunting and yell if you need Aussie records. > Pam from Adelaide Australia >

Thank you, Chris, and others who have helped. I think the directory entry is likely to refer to Charles CHADWICK, but I am now keeping an open mind on the location of the King's Arms, given that there appear to have been at least two in Kingston, on the Surrey side of the river, at various times: the King's Arms built anew in 1928 in Clarence St, and another, referred to in wills of the 17th and 18th century, in Thames St. I suppose there may have been others, too. Thanks again Geoff Geoffrey Chew = g.chew@rhul.ac.uk ________________________________ From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of Chris Townsend Sent: Sun 8.11.09 17:42 To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SRY] Surrey Pubs [was Wheatsheaf and Barley Mow, Mount St] Hello Geoff, The British Universal Directory 1793-1798 has a section on Kingston, Surrey. Listed under Traders is CHADWICK, [no forename given], Victualler Unfortunately, it doesn't name his premises, but there is another entry for FILB Wm., Victualler, King's Arms. Hope this helps, Chris Townsend > ... And clearly there was one, a King's Arms in Clarence Street, > Kingston - a 300-year-old one that was demolished and replaced by a new > building in 1928, but now in its turn demolished. I think that has to be > mine. > > Geoff > > Geoffrey Chew > g.chew@rhul.ac.uk > > ________________________________ > > From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of Chew G > > The King's Arms of the website [next to Hampton Court] says these days > that it is in Kingston, Surrey, but I will certainly stand corrected if it > turns out that there was historically another in Kingston itself on the > other side of the river. > > Geoff *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Glen If he married here in Oz, or had some kids I could help you as I volunteer one morning a week at our local LDS. I can only suggest you try and get the emmigration records. If you know from the shipslist where they landed and where he likely got off, google search and email the immigration museum for that state and see where that leads. I am afraid I was born in Kent UK, and apart from a couple of convicts way back, I have not had to deal with this. Happy hunting and yell if you need Aussie records. Pam from Adelaide Australia > Good evening Pam, > Thanks for your effort. > James Jackson Smith married in New Zealand but on his marriage certificate > it says 15 February 1877 in Roxburgh New Zealand - born in London England > so I think it was 21st January 1840 > He died in New Zealand 17 June 1912 and the death certificate states he > was > in his 73rd year so that would be 1840... he had been born in England but > had been in Roxburgh for 38 years... the diary states he was in Ida Valley > and Italian Gully - all part of Gabriel's Gully Otago > I don't have emigration records and I am guessing the year as he states in > his diary ( only have 5 years of diary that he had been '18 September > 1869: > ......Mrs White died. I miss her as she was the only ship mate I know of > from > the old country..it is now 12 years since I first met her on board the > Melbourne barque from Liverpool to Melbourne. She was a young woman then > and I was quite a boy..how time flies." I have hunted for "The Melbourne" > to no avail.... that means 1857 on the "barque Melbourne Barque: 305 tons" > I am assuming that he came to NZ in 1865 when this diary begins or > before... > not conclusive about when he arrived I am afraid.... could have been any > year between 1857 -1865 but he certainly was involved in the Gold Rush in > New Zealand > I have read the diary really closely and that was when I discovered his > two > sisters names - very common I know. My mum was a Smith and she said " you > just about have to say what you have for dinner when you say your name is > Smith!!!" > Does any of this help? > Glenys Kempshall > > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Ian, very little seems to be totally complete in this area. But I have been wading through the possible Answers supplied by the listers. Wonderful responses as always. Cheers Pam from Adelaide Australia Hi there. A word of warning about the enclosed site in case you go straight in via the email and don't read the preamble. THIS IS NOT A COMPLETE SEARCH OF THE BURIAL REGISTER. This facility only relates to areas cleared and reburied by the council when it vandalised the cemetery some years ago. Hence it is useful but not what it might seem at first sight!! regards IAN

Hello Geoff, The British Universal Directory 1793-1798 has a section on Kingston, Surrey. Listed under Traders is CHADWICK, [no forename given], Victualler Unfortunately, it doesn't name his premises, but there is another entry for FILB Wm., Victualler, King's Arms. Hope this helps, Chris Townsend > ... And clearly there was one, a King's Arms in Clarence Street, > Kingston - a 300-year-old one that was demolished and replaced by a new > building in 1928, but now in its turn demolished. I think that has to be > mine. > > Geoff > > Geoffrey Chew > g.chew@rhul.ac.uk > > ________________________________ > > From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of Chew G > > The King's Arms of the website [next to Hampton Court] says these days > that it is in Kingston, Surrey, but I will certainly stand corrected if it > turns out that there was historically another in Kingston itself on the > other side of the river. > > Geoff

The book "... And the Lord taketh away" - How the Mount Cemetery came into being and pen-pictures of some of those buried there, by Roger Nicholas, confirms what I recalled from memory. I have enquired about records of burials in the new cemetery at the Mount, with some success, but I'm unaware of any duplicate copies for the old cemetery. Best wishes, Chris Townsend ----- Original Message ----- From: "HILARY BLANFORD" <hilaryblanford@btinternet.com> To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:03 PM Subject: [SRY] Mount Street and Cemetery Records I've now lost track of who made the original comment that the cemetery records were lost in fire, but if it was a cemetery, as opposed to a churchyard there may be a second set of registers somewhere. I am currently helping to transcribe burial records and one set is kept at the local crematorium and another at the town hall. The borough archivist might know if this is the case here. Hilary > > SNIP> > >> By the way, no pubs left, Chris W., and many > cottages gone. I think, from > >> memory, the Cemetery Lodge was lost in a fire > which also destroyed the > >> records of the old part of the cemetery. > Those for the new part survive.

Sent. Jo in Leics jo.mason@swsmail.net holmested@one-name.org

Hi Anne Chambers  (Not to confuse the Annes <G>) There is nothing against mentioning the web sites we use and love. The site I use for census searches is The Genealogist.  This site has a very good street search facility under censuses. It looks as if the various providers are quick to complain or cut us off in we publish search results, but I bet they won't be as quick in paying commission for promoting them.  lol, lol.  Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. ________________________________ From: Anne Chambers <anne.chambers@bigpond.com> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Sat, 7 November, 2009 8:43:41 Subject: Re: [SRY] BARNES Family > ............................................ >> An address search for 'The Mount' or 'Mount' gets no results.  There are 3 >> pages of BARNES in Guildford - what >> names are you looking for ? >> >> Anne >> South Australia :=>< SNIP And, as Ann has said, such searches are not allowed anyway.  Better make sure email adresses are valid.... Anne Chris Townsend wrote: > I don't understand this - when I do an address search for "Mount" in > Guildford registration district I find umpteen results, :=>< SNIP

From: "Chew G" <G.Chew@rhul.ac.uk> > Is there any historical info either on the web or elsewhere about pubs in > Kingston? (Since this list had pubs as its monthly topic in Jan 2007, > when I made a query about my 2x greatgrandfather Charles CHADWICK, I've > found out that he was the landlord of the King's Arms in Lion Gate, next > to Hampton Court Palace, during the 1790s. They have a web page, but with > minimal info.) The licensing records for Kingston pubs are at The North Kingston Centre (local history room) in Richmond Road, Kingston on Thames. The archive there also has other documents and photos so you may strike lucky. Ann

Hello Chris No - I wasn't, so thank you very much for that. I do know that SHC have some of his work and I believe the Institute in Guildford have some too. My problem is I've never found his baptism which should be about 1822 in Wonersh according to censuses. The closest match in the Wonersh registers is an Alfred Batchelor baptised Sep 1822 son of Frederick Batchelor and wife Ann (nee Chitty). I suspect Allen and Alfred are one and the same person but haven't proved it sufficiently. I'll have to look at the book - it will be interesting anyway but a real bonus if I ever do make the connection properly. Thank you again. Ann From: "Chris Townsend" <chris@johntownsend.demon.co.uk> > Are you aware that there is a paragraph, and a photo, for Allen Batchelor > in > the book "... And the Lord taketh away" - How the Mount Cemetery came into > being and pen-pictures of some of those buried there, by Roger Nicholas?

Thanks Chris That's the very site - the name's a bit of a giveaway too! Yes it's a very useful resource, not just for the pubs and publican histories, but also for the exracts from Kellys, Pigots and Whites Directories. Many thnks for finding it Hilary > Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 17:11:52 -0000 > From: "Chris Townsend" <chris@johntownsend.demon.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [SRY] Surrey Pubs > To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <6E59B902A71D483087526AAA7ECB2352@Caissa> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; >     reply-type=original > > Is this the one you mean, Hilary?  I don't see Geoff's > King's Arms, but > others might find it useful, as it's not only about London > pubs. > http://londonpublichouse.com/ > > Best wishes, > > Chris Townsend >

I've now lost track of who made the original comment that the cemetery records were lost in fire, but if it was a cemetery, as opposed to a churchyard there may be a second set of registers somewhere. I am currently helping to transcribe burial records and one set is kept at the local crematorium and another at the town hall. The borough archivist might know if this is the case here. Hilary > > SNIP> > >> By the way, no pubs left, Chris W., and many > cottages gone.  I think, from > >> memory, the Cemetery Lodge was lost in a fire > which also destroyed the > >> records of the old part of the cemetery.  > Those for the new part survive.

Thanks to Margaret, Judy, Rona and David for your most helpful replies! Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Cambridge" <talktomarg@shaw.ca> To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [SRY] MOORE > > The address seems to be Grove and the address two above is Grove House. > Under that in brackets it looks like (Dust Garde). The occupation looks > like "Foreman of Dust Garde. Whatever that means. Birth Place may be > Cressing, Essex. > Marg >>From the Beautiful British Columbia Cariboo Region, Canada > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Neil & Jan Hearn" <neil.hearn3@bigpond.com> > To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 8:56 PM > Subject: [SRY] MOORE > > > > I am seeking some help in deciphering a census record please. > In 1851 James MOORE (59) lived with his wife, Elizabeth (61) and daughter, > Martha (22) in St Saviour's parish, Southwark. She was a Fancy Bag Maker. > I'm having trouble reading the address, occupation and place of birth for > James. > > Thanks so much, > > Jan > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

... And clearly there was one, a King's Arms in Clarence Street, Kingston - a 300-year-old one that was demolished and replaced by a new building in 1928, but now in its turn demolished. I think that has to be mine. Geoff Geoffrey Chew g.chew@rhul.ac.uk ________________________________ From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of Chew G The King's Arms of the website [next to Hampton Court] says these days that it is in Kingston, Surrey, but I will certainly stand corrected if it turns out that there was historically another in Kingston itself on the other side of the river. Geoff

Many thanks, Keith, that's the website I meant (to put it together again, < <http://www.totaltravel.co.uk/travel/london/south-greater-london/kingston-upo> http://www.totaltravel.co.uk/travel/london/south-greater-london/kingston-upo <http://www.totaltravel.co.uk/travel/london/south-greater-london/kingston-upo> n-thames/accommodation/hotels/the-kings-arms-hotel-1>), though it has meanwhile been pointed out to me that this may not be the right King's Arms, if there was another in Kingston and if this one, admittedly an 18th-century inn, was at the time in Middlesex. Mine is definitely the King's Arms, Kingston, Surrey (where Charles Chadwick wrote his will in the 1790s; some of his children had been baptised in Kingston previously, though the earliest in Ewell). The King's Arms of the website says these days that it is in Kingston, Surrey, but I will certainly stand corrected if it turns out that there was historically another in Kingston itself on the other side of the river. Geoff Geoffrey Chew g.chew@rhul.ac.uk ________________________________ From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of Keith Jacobs Sent: Sat 7.11.09 16:13 To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SRY] Surrey Pubs [was Wheatsheaf and Barley Mow, Mount St] Geoff I googled "Kings arms Kingston" and found http://www.totaltravel.co.uk/travel/london/south-greater-london/kingston-upo n-thames/accommodation/hotels/the-kings-arms-hotel-1 Regards Keith Jacobs GOONs Member 3453 Researching the Baggarley name worldwide see http://www.baggarley.one.name <http://www.baggarley.one.name/> > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well, I got no results when I searched - who knows why ! I didn't put in the county, just Guildford, perhaps that was the reason. (and I've just tried again using the basic search with 'Mount' as street name and 'Guildford" as residential place and again got no results, perhaps one needs to do an advanced search ?) Anyway, they have been found (using the surname) and the address was 'Mount Street' And, as Ann has said, such searches are not allowed anyway. Better make sure email adresses are valid.... Anne Chris Townsend wrote: > I don't understand this - when I do an address search for "Mount" in > Guildford registration district I find umpteen results, including "Mount > St", "Mount Street", "The Mount", and various named cottages on the street. > What's more, there are 8 results for BARNES, and, as Ann S. says, a bit of > intelligent searching, using the index alone, should find who's head of > household and how the rest fit into the picture (or not!) > > By the way, no pubs left, Chris W., and many cottages gone. I think, from > memory, the Cemetery Lodge was lost in a fire which also destroyed the > records of the old part of the cemetery. Those for the new part survive. > > Best wishes, > > Chris Townsend > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anne Chambers"<anne.chambers@bigpond.com> > To:<nigel.callaghan@ntlworld.com>;<eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 7:38 AM > Subject: Re: [SRY] BARNES Family > > >> An address search for 'The Mount' or 'Mount' gets no results. There are 3 >> pages of BARNES in Guildford - what >> names are you looking for ? >> >> Anne >> South Australia >>

Is this the one you mean, Hilary? I don't see Geoff's King's Arms, but others might find it useful, as it's not only about London pubs. http://londonpublichouse.com/ Best wishes, Chris Townsend ----- Original Message ----- From: "HILARY BLANFORD" <hilaryblanford@btinternet.com> To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:19 PM Subject: Re: [SRY] ENG-SURREY Digest, Vol 4, Issue 315 There is a London Pubs website that links to individual pubs and then includes extracts from old trade directories for the town/village concerned + lists of tradesmen and notable inhabitants. Have not been able to find it today - it had a lot of Essex pubs - not sure if Surrey/Kingston has been included. I expect someone from the list knows what I'm talking about! [snipped] Hilary > Is there any historical info either on the web or elsewhere > about pubs in Kingston? (Since this list had pubs as > its monthly topic in Jan 2007, when I made a query about my > 2x greatgrandfather Charles CHADWICK, I've found out that he > was the landlord of the King's Arms in Lion Gate, next to > Hampton Court Palace, during the 1790s. They have a web > page, but with minimal info.) > > Geoff > > Geoffrey Chew > g.chew@rhul.ac.uk

Hello Ann, Are you aware that there is a paragraph, and a photo, for Allen Batchelor in the book "... And the Lord taketh away" - How the Mount Cemetery came into being and pen-pictures of some of those buried there, by Roger Nicholas? Best wishes, Chris Townsend ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Sargeant" <ann.sargeant@ntlworld.com> To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 8:43 AM Subject: [SRY] Wheatsheaf and Barley Mow, Mount St - was] BARNES Family > ....According to Mark Sturley's book "Breweries and Public Houses of > Guildford":- > > The Wheatsheaf, Mount St - last recorded occupant was William Jeffree > GERRARD 1945 to 1955 and then it was closed down. Became used as business > premises. > > "The Barley Mow, Mount St - The last known occupant is given as Mrs G > BUCKLE > in 1901 and it was said - from memory of an elderly resident (Allen > Batchelor) - to have been closed down by 1908. I suspect Allen Batchelor > is connected to my family but have never been able to prove it. > > Ann