Some extracts from Ewbank-Smith's 'Farnham in War and Peace' seem an appropriate and hopefully interesting conclusion to the Remembrance Day postings and is probably typical of what was happening in towns and villages throughout Surrey and the rest of the Country at the outbreak of war in 1914. The local Farnham newspaper of 15 August 1914 reported on the 'exodus' of young men volunteers. Names included: Etienne ROBO the Roman Catholic priest who went to join the French army but returned later after being rejected as unfit. HC PATRICK brother of Sidney PATRICK Frank SWAIN of Swain and Jones motoring business Lionel MITCHELL son of Thomas MITCHELL EF CRUNDWELL solicitor Rev Neville TALBOT and Rev Edward TALBOT sons of the Bishop of Winchester (as army chaplains) - Gilbert the youngest son applied for a commission in the Rifle Brigade. GRR COMBE son of Richard COMBE of Frensham Tommy SIMMONDS son of the local Police Superintendent Mr LANGHAM (propieter of the newspaper). Harold FALKNER The Royal West Surrey Regiment's Territorials of some 130 men had been recalled from summer camp to mobilise at their battalion HQ in Guildford. Forty three Farnham men had already signed on at the Corn Exchange - within the coming month their number grew to 328 aged between 18 and 30. Just one month later the reports of casualties started to reach home: Lt Cdr BARTELLOT HH SHORT William PARSONS of Castle Street, Charles PARFITT, of Fairthorne Terrace Major CHRYSTIE son of Colonel Geo CHRYSTIE RS JACKSON and AE ROBINSON - both able seamen of Babbs Mead, on board the Bulwark when she was blown up in Sheerness Harbour. Major BACON and Private T CUFF both of Upper Hale and later Gilbert TALBOT (see above) was killed in 1915. (Toc H became his lasting memorial.) Within the month Waverley Abbey House was annexed to the nearby Cambridge Military Hospital just along the road at Aldershot and the first casualties arrived there on 24 September. This is just a very small sample of how the town of Farnham was affected early in 1914 - who then could have imagined what was to follow. Ann

For those with an interest in the demise of the 1931 census http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=1931_Census Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > "Paul " <tenniseggpaul@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>How interesting - I knew there was no 1941 census for obvious reasons but >>I >>had np idea the 1931 >census did not survive - do you know what happened >>to >>it Ann? I can't wait for the 1951 census to be >available as I will be >>there but then again if they stick tp the 100 year rule I will be 105.

"Paul " <tenniseggpaul@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >How interesting - I knew there was no 1941 census for obvious reasons but I >had np idea the 1931 >census did not survive - do you know what happened to >it Ann? I can't wait for the 1951 census to be >available as I will be >there but then again if they stick tp the 100 year rule I will be 105. First - I really must apologise for myself committing one of the cardinal sins of Mailing List posting i.e cross posting to more than one List. This is one of the no-nos, as it has administrative implications, and can become very irritating as multiple replies end up on more than one List. My apologies. I've already replied to Paul's specific question elsewhere, but for anyone else here who might be interested, the answer is that the 1931 census was lost in a fire in the storage facility where it was being kept. Ann

Paul, and all Professor Jay Winter read out a moving essay of his about the war wounded.  Another 12 minute tribute. Do check the Radio 2 pm blog site fior a transcript, or listen on Radio 2 on the BBC iPlayer. Richard ________________________________ From: Paul Eggleton <tenniseggpaul@sbcglobal.net> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 12 November, 2009 5:27:05 Subject: Re: [SRY] Lest we forget - Rememberance Day We often just think of the people who lost their lives - terrible as it was to lose a loved one there were those that survived but were never the same. My own father came back blind in one eye and deaf in one ear from an explosion whilst in Italy, so being born after he came back I never really knew the dynamic man everyone said he was and he died when he was only 48. I was emailing with one of my cousins recently and she told me her father was captured by the Japanese and imprisoned in Singapore for 3 years - I can't bear to think of the suffering he must have endured there. I've tried to find details of both men on the web but cannot find anything. Can anybody advise where I might find details? Paul :=>< SNIP

We often just think of the people who lost their lives - terrible as it was to lose a loved one there were those that survived but were never the same. My own father came back blind in one eye and deaf in one ear from an explosion whilst in Italy, so being born after he came back I never really knew the dynamic man everyone said he was and he died when he was only 48. I was emailing with one of my cousins recently and she told me her father was captured by the Japanese and imprisoned in Singapore for 3 years - I can't bear to think of the suffering he must have endured there. I've tried to find details of both men on the web but cannot find anything. Can anybody advise where I might find details? Paul ________________________________ From: Pam Hillier <pamhillier24@virginbroadband.com.au> To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 9:42:25 PM Subject: Re: [SRY] Lest we forget - Rememberance Day beautifully put Michael Pam from Adelaide Australia >I REMEMBER: > > My dad's brother Ted (Edward W. H. Clifton) was a British Commando in WWII > and his brother-in-law, George Elson, was in the RAF Ground Forces and > Barrage Balloon barges on the Thames.  My paternal grandfather, Edward > Clifton, was apparently an Air Raid Warden, [all three former names of > Surrey relevance] and my maternal grandfather, George Bradbury, was first > a courier (on motor bike) till injured and then became a cook, serving the > forces in Italy during WWII.  I also have an "uncle" (really my mom's > cousin by marriage I believe) who was in the Polish underground fighting > the Nazi's; lost a leg, but saved his own and many lives I garner. > > Add to that all the other survivors, particularly the women who kept the > home fires burning, who served and worked in ways they never imagined > would be needed to preserve hearth and home and support their soldiers, > whose love, prayers and hope never failed.  And the children, who > experienced fears and wonders they never invented or desired, who bore the > scars of childish perception of horrible things, and who lived on to > remind and raise the rest of us. > > Blessed be the memory of those who, whether through ignorance or wisdom, > by choice or by force, ultimately gave of themselves so that others could > have the hope of freedom and peace.  "Greater love hath no man than this, > that he lay down his life for his friends." > > > Michael Clifton > Canada *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at:  Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com.   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

How interesting - I knew there was no 1941 census for obvious reasons but I had np idea the 1931 census did not survive - do you know what happened to it Ann? I can't wait for the 1951 census to be available as I will be there but then again if they stick tp the 100 year rule I will be 105. Paul ________________________________ From: Ann Sargeant <ann.sargeant@ntlworld.com> To: Middlesex List <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com>; "Eng-Surrey@rootsweb.com" <ENG-SURREY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 11:25:04 PM Subject: [SRY] National Registration Records 1939 Apparently the Information Commissioner has ruled that the 1939 National Registration information must be made publicly available where it relates to deceased persons. The records have hitherto been held at Smedley Hydro (also home of GRO) and were used for the issue of WWII identity cards, Ration Books etc, and then after the war they were used for compilation of the first NHS register and medical card issue. The records will become increasingly important as they help to  fill the gap between the 1921 census and the 1951 census. (The 1931 census has not survived and there was no census in 1941.) I daresay there will be more about this in due course but at the moment, to the best of my knowledge there is nothing official published. Ann List Admin *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at:  Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com.   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Caroline Thank you for your offer of a fresh set of eyes, in your e mail of 21/10/09. Sorry I have been a while replying, a few technical difficulties! I did post some details re this query a while ago and had some useful replies, also your suggestions were a help. Here are the details I have: On Oct 9 1899 a Thomas Graham married Emily Louisa Mardle at St Marks Walworth in Newington, London, he stated he was 20, she 18. On the certificate his father was named as John Graham. It is the Graham family I am researching. Thomas said he was living at 60 King and Queen Street, his profession was a general dealer, as was his father's. In later life Thomas also used the names Thomas Edward and just Edward in certificates relating to his children. Thomas and Emily named their first daughter Catherine, she was born very quickly after they married, in 1900. In the 1901 census Thomas is living in Bermondsey, a dealer in Public House Measures, he stated he was 20 and from Bermondsey. Searching the GRO registers has not found a birth record for him between 1879 and 1881 that can be linked to a father John. One record for a Thomas registered in 1879 was a dead end as the child died within three months. The closest link I could find on the 1891 census was for St. Olave, London, Rotherhithe St Johns Horsleydown, 6 Brewer St. There is a John Graham, head mar, 30 Bootmaker, Employed from Dublin. Wife Catherine 26 Bermondsey, Thomas son 9 Bermondsey, son William 7 Bermondsey, son James 2 Bermondsey, son John 3 months Bermondsey. In the 1881 census the couple is at 90 Grange Walk, St Olave Southwark. John is head, married 22 Bootmaker, now from Whitechapel Middx. Catherine wife mar 18 Bermondsey, Kitty MccCarty Lodger 60 Trotter Vendor Ireland. In the 1901 census I have found a Catherine Graham head, mar, Charwoman Bermondsey, with daughter Catherine 7 of Newington and son John 10 also Newington. John, the father is not mentioned. I have searched for a marriage for John and Catherine, without success, but as you say, it could have fallen through the net. However I cannot find registrations for the children either, listers suggested the couple never married so they were registered under her maiden name perhaps. As a last resort I was looking through parish registers but so far have not been successful in the latest on Ancestry. I would appreciate your comments. With thanks Carole

beautifully put Michael Pam from Adelaide Australia >I REMEMBER: > > My dad's brother Ted (Edward W. H. Clifton) was a British Commando in WWII > and his brother-in-law, George Elson, was in the RAF Ground Forces and > Barrage Balloon barges on the Thames. My paternal grandfather, Edward > Clifton, was apparently an Air Raid Warden, [all three former names of > Surrey relevance] and my maternal grandfather, George Bradbury, was first > a courier (on motor bike) till injured and then became a cook, serving the > forces in Italy during WWII. I also have an "uncle" (really my mom's > cousin by marriage I believe) who was in the Polish underground fighting > the Nazi's; lost a leg, but saved his own and many lives I garner. > > Add to that all the other survivors, particularly the women who kept the > home fires burning, who served and worked in ways they never imagined > would be needed to preserve hearth and home and support their soldiers, > whose love, prayers and hope never failed. And the children, who > experienced fears and wonders they never invented or desired, who bore the > scars of childish perception of horrible things, and who lived on to > remind and raise the rest of us. > > Blessed be the memory of those who, whether through ignorance or wisdom, > by choice or by force, ultimately gave of themselves so that others could > have the hope of freedom and peace. "Greater love hath no man than this, > that he lay down his life for his friends." > > > Michael Clifton > Canada

and a description of Nags Head Court is here http://booth.lse.ac.uk/notebooks/b354/jpg/123.html It sounds awful and must have been much the same, if not worse in 1841 :( Anne Anne Chambers wrote: > Hello Marcia > In the 1861 census, George is living at 18 Wellington Place, Southwark with his daughter Maria& son Alfred, a > Hat Case Salesman. > > In 1851 he's at 3 Blindon Row, Newington with wife Eliza, son Thomas, a French Polisher, daughters Emma& > Maria& son Alfred. > > in 1841, he's in Nags Head Court, St Clements, Eastcheap (Strand, near St Clement Danes) with wife Eliza, > daughter Eliza, sons George& Thomas and daughters Emma& Helen. > > Given the addresses (which are all in pretty poor areas) and the occupations of the sons, I'd be quite > surprised if he had made a will as he probably wouldn't have anything to leave. > > See http://booth.lse.ac.uk/notebooks/b363/jpg/105.html > for a description of Wellington Place > > Let me know if you'd like the full census details. > > Anne > South Australia

Hello Marcia In the 1861 census, George is living at 18 Wellington Place, Southwark with his daughter Maria & son Alfred, a Hat Case Salesman. In 1851 he's at 3 Blindon Row, Newington with wife Eliza, son Thomas, a French Polisher, daughters Emma & Maria & son Alfred. in 1841, he's in Nags Head Court, St Clements, Eastcheap (Strand, near St Clement Danes) with wife Eliza, daughter Eliza, sons George & Thomas and daughters Emma & Helen. Given the addresses (which are all in pretty poor areas) and the occupations of the sons, I'd be quite surprised if he had made a will as he probably wouldn't have anything to leave. See http://booth.lse.ac.uk/notebooks/b363/jpg/105.html for a description of Wellington Place Let me know if you'd like the full census details. Anne South Australia Marcia Earl wrote: > Hello, > > I am very new to using mailing lists. I took a friends advice to ask > for some help to find a will. My great great great grandfather on a > certified copy of an entry of death from the registration district > Saint George Southwark in the County of Surrey death in the Sub- > distrit of Borough Road 1865 > George Earle died 3rd of April 1865 at Chadwell Place Green Street. He > was 64 and a wine cooper. His daughter Emma Woods was the informant. > The death was registered the 3rd April 1865. The Registrar was Henry > Clement Elliott. > > I would like the information necessary to order a copy of a will if it > exists. Thank you in-advance for any direction you can give me on how > to get this information. > > Marcia > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Marcia, I have checked the national archives/documents online website and nothing more recent than 1854 which is for a George Earle of Crown Row Msx dated 1854......worth it to keep checking plus there are A lot of other things that might be worth a look, such as medals lists (wars), campaign medals, wills, death duties etc http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/power-search.asp?searchType=powersearch I have also checked the Surreyonline wills extracts and found one of interest. I copy below. The father left everything to wife and children - including a George BUT the son George was executor of the will, dated 1812 - this is not your George because he would have only been 11 at the time and too young to be an executor. But given that that the spelling Earle and being a Surrey will, it might be worth hanging onto. It may relate to someone connected to your family and be of interest at a later stage. Website if of interest http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~engsurry/d2f.shtml - there are other Earl(e) wills on there WILL In The Name of God Amen. I William Earle of Farnham in the County of Surrey Cabinet Maker being of perfect mind and memory thanks be given unto God therefore calling unto and the mortality of my body knowing that it is appointed unto all men ............... to die do constitute and ordain this to be my last will and Testament that is to say First and principally of all I give ................ my soul into the hands of Almighty God noting doubting but at the General Resurrection I shall receive the same again by that Almighty power that gave it me and my body I give to the Earth to be buried in decent Christian burial at the desire of my Exors hereafter mentioned and as touching such worldly Estate and Effects as it hath pleased God to bless me with I give and dispose of in the following manner and form after my funeral Expenses and just Debts are paid whatever may remain of my chattels and effects I five unto my five children viz. William, Mary, Thomas, George and Sarah to be equally divided between them excepting that the aforesaid William and Thomas shall have no power to sell his part out of the Estate without the consent of my two Exors hereafter mentioned but to receive it at any future time as they may think proper. Likewise I do hereby appoint George Earle and Charles Fry Exors of this my last Will and Testament revoking and making void all other wills by me made declaring this only to be my last will and Testament in testimony whereof I have hereunto set my name and seal this fifteenth day of July in the year of our Lord God one thousand eight hundred and ten Wm Earle the Testor as and for his last will and testament in the presence of us at his request in the presence of each other have subscribed our names as witnesses thereto the day and year above written Joseph Hopwood Chas. Fry William Hole Richd. Richardson. Proved at London 30th June 1812 before the worshipful Charles Cook doctor of Law and Divinity by the oath of George Earle the son and Charles Fry the Exor. to whom Admon. was granted being sworn to Admin. Only a few snippets, but hope they come in handy one day. Cheers Pam from Adelaide Ausralia > Hello, > > I am very new to using mailing lists. I took a friends advice to ask > for some help to find a will. My great great great grandfather on a > certified copy of an entry of death from the registration district > Saint George Southwark in the County of Surrey death in the Sub- > distrit of Borough Road 1865 > George Earle died 3rd of April 1865 at Chadwell Place Green Street. He > was 64 and a wine cooper. His daughter Emma Woods was the informant. > The death was registered the 3rd April 1865. The Registrar was Henry > Clement Elliott. > > I would like the information necessary to order a copy of a will if it > exists. Thank you in-advance for any direction you can give me on how > to get this information. > > Marcia >

Hi Nivard and Alison..... Serves me right I should have checked Freebmd again before I posted (spur of the moment)......I couldn't find him last time I looked. In my defence I have been sidetracked by a brickwall crumbling..... many thanks for the information. I hope I find someone researching him as I have pics of him in uniform and at their wedding...... Cheers Pam from Adelaide > Hi Pam > > Is this a possible for his parents > > Marriages Jun 1915 > Lines Charles F J Walton Croydon 2a 739 > Walton Dorothy M Lines Croydon 2a 739 > > And a possible sibling > > Name: Jean D Lines > Mother's Maiden Surname: Walton > Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1926 > Registration district: Croydon > Registration county: Surrey,Kent > Volume Number: 2a > Page Number: 404 > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

I am wondering if any lister can help to explain the cemetery situation on this south western corner of the county?? 1) Shottermill has a working cemetery in Sunvale Avenue opened in 1935 (a reasonable size but beginning to fill up). 2) Haslemere has a closed cemetery in Weycombe Road opened in 1943 (very small between houses). 3) Lynchmere Parish (Hants) has a cemetery on the Liphook road, opened in the 1930s but the site was surveyed and proposed as a joint Haslemere and Shottermill cemetery some years before this date (a reasonable size with plenty of space). Does anyone know why the Haslemere cemetery was opened, with such a short potential life AND with the larger Shottermill cemetery already in place? It doesnt seem to make sense unless it was down to competing local politics! I guess that Lynchmere decided to use the area because it had already been considered suitable for burials? Any information would be much appreciated. Regards Ian Simpson Friends of Surrey Cemeteries _________________________________________________________________ Got more than one Hotmail account? Save time by linking them together http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394591/direct/01/

Thanks Pam. And to add to that list, my mom tells me we have two Australian relatives (my maternal grandmother's cousins) who served in WWII: Jack Aherne in the Navy and his brother Bernard in the Air Force. Bernard won the D.S.O. Michael

In memory of my aunts husband Geoffrey C LINES I might just again post him to the list. Hopefully someone will have him dangling from their branches and I can at last put a face and family to this man. Geoffrey C Lines born 4th May, 1918 in Croydon Surrey. parents unknown - father LINES mother WALTON. Died Tunis 23rd February, 1943. Married Elsie Caroline DULLEY 1940 in Croydon. Cheers Pam from Adelaide Australia Always be yourself because the people that matter don't mind. The ones that mind don't matter.

Apparently the Information Commissioner has ruled that the 1939 National Registration information must be made publicly available where it relates to deceased persons. The records have hitherto been held at Smedley Hydro (also home of GRO) and were used for the issue of WWII identity cards, Ration Books etc, and then after the war they were used for compilation of the first NHS register and medical card issue. The records will become increasingly important as they help to fill the gap between the 1921 census and the 1951 census. (The 1931 census has not survived and there was no census in 1941.) I daresay there will be more about this in due course but at the moment, to the best of my knowledge there is nothing official published. Ann List Admin

Hi all, I would like to remember My aunts first husband Geoffrey C LINES, a Lance Sergeant in the Royal signal Corps who died aged 24 and is buried in Medjez-El-Bab War Cemetery, Tunis. I would also like to remember my father Ernest Storer HILLIER who was an anti aircraft gunner - AK-AK (Home Guard) in WW2 and with two near misses in bomb alley, managed to survive. AND to all the men and women who served and protected us and those that still do. Cheers Pam from Adelaide Australia Always be yourself because the people that matter don't mind. The ones that mind don't matter.

Good Morning Everyone I have had agreement from Ann, that just for today, 11 November, we can remember our loved ones who are no longer with us. Thank you Ann. I would like to start the list with: My Grandfather, Charles Harry ALLEN. who spent 3 years in a Prisoner of War Camp, somewhere in Germany, during the First World War, and who managed to survive My Godfather, Frederick Robson Mark FOLKES, who was also in the First World War and saw service in the trenches of France. My Father, William Ritchie George STONARD (aka Ritchie William George STONARD) who served on the Home Front in the Second World War. My husband's Great Uncle, George HEMPSTON, who unfortunately did not return from the First World War. My love and admiration for my ancestors will never diminish with time. LEST WE FORGET Yvonne Hempston Melb. Aust.

Hello Marcia Welcome to the List. All Wills (and Administrations) in England and Wales have been centrally administered by the State since 1858 ('57 for administrations). There is no online index but indexes, from 1858 usually up to 1943, are held at various libraries, archives, and probate offices. A full index is available at the Principal Probate Registry in High Holborn, for personal callers there. For those unable to access the indexes in person there is a postal search service available from: The Postal Searches & Copies Dept, York Probate Sub-Registry, 1st Floor, Castle Chambers, Clifford Street, York, YO1 9RG) All the information is here: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1226.htm It seems likely the Probate Calendars may be put online at a future date but it's been in the offing for a few years now so goodness knows when it may happen. Ann From: "Marcia Earl" <mearl@hurontel.on.ca> > I am very new to using mailing lists. I took a friends advice to ask > for some help to find a will. My great great great grandfather on a > certified copy of an entry of death from the registration district > Saint George Southwark in the County of Surrey death in the Sub- > distrit of Borough Road 1865 > George Earle died 3rd of April 1865 at Chadwell Place Green Street. He > was 64 and a wine cooper. His daughter Emma Woods was the informant. > The death was registered the 3rd April 1865. The Registrar was Henry > Clement Elliott. > > I would like the information necessary to order a copy of a will if it > exists. Thank you in-advance for any direction you can give me on how > to get this information.

Marcia Below is the full reference that tells you how to find wills post 1858. The National Archives is always one of the good starting points for family history research and has some helpful free research guides. At the moment you can find these from the home page > Births, marriages and deaths > brief guides (on the right hand side of the page). The probate office also has lots of information on its web page http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/rdleaflet.asp?sLeafletURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Enationalarchives%2Egov%2Euk%2Fcatalogue%2Fleaflets%2Fri2301%2Ehtm&lBack=-1 If you are struggling with this link just google for the National Archives + England, then click on wills, then on post 1858 Hilary > Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:28:27 -0500 > From: Marcia Earl <mearl@hurontel.on.ca> > Subject: [SRY] Help Request > To: eng-surrey@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <AF706EF3-081E-4D89-A644-F77C4675A519@hurontel.on.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; > delsp=yes > > Hello, > > I am very new to using mailing lists. I took a friends > advice to ask  > for some help to find a will. My great great great > grandfather on a  > certified copy of an entry of death from the registration > district  > Saint George Southwark in the County of Surrey death in the > Sub- > distrit of Borough Road 1865 > George Earle died 3rd of April 1865 at Chadwell Place Green > Street. He  > was 64 and a wine cooper. His daughter Emma Woods  was > the informant.  > The death was registered the 3rd April 1865. The Registrar > was Henry  > Clement Elliott. > > I would like the information necessary to order a copy of a > will if it  > exists. Thank you in-advance for any direction you can give > me on how  > to get this information. .