Hi Anne, Thanks for the Baptism information. The family of Joseph Holland and Bridget Holland ( nee Sharkey) is the correct one but, except for, Annie Elizabeth Holland, who was born in Ireland in Dec 1985, all the other baptismal dates are for dates which are just before the dates when the children were actually born. For Example, Joseph William was born Sept. 1901, Eliza was born June 1897. Kathleen, Grace was born 1900, Henry Michael was born March 1903. I need to sort out the correct order of the Cristian names because I will need to know that before. I order any BDM certificated for them. Thanks Anne. Patrick Perth, Western Australia. Anne Chambers wrote: > Possibly the sons were known by their second names and that is why the order was reversed on the census - if > otherwise they match exactly, I wouldn't worry too much. > > Have you checked to see if there are any baptisms on Ancestry ? There is this one which I presume is the > correct family > Joseph William Holland Baptism 16 Jun 1901 Joseph Holland, Bridget Holland Saint Mary At Lambeth Lambeth > > It would, no doubt, have been confusing to have two Josephs (father & son) in the same family > > These are probably theirs as well > Eliza Holland Baptism 14 Apr 1897 Joseph Holland,Bridget Holland Saint Mary At Lambeth Lambeth > > Annie Elizabeth Holland Baptism 11 Oct 1899 Joseph Holland,Bridget Holland Saint Mary At Lambeth Lambeth > > Kathleen Grace Holland Baptism 11 Oct 1899 Joseph Holland, > Bridget Holland Saint Mary At Lambeth Lambeth > > Henry Michael Holland Baptism 18 Feb 1903 Joseph Holland, > Bridget Holland Saint Mary The Less Lambeth > > Who knows why our ancestors did what they did ! > > Anne > South Australia > > patrick holland wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I have looked at the 1911 census for Joseph Holland who lived in Lambeth at the time he completed the >> census and found that the order of the Christian names he gives for his 5 sons on the census, is reversed >> on Free BDM. I searched Free BDM under both Lambeth or Surrey and found the same reversal exists in both >> Lambeth and Surrey. >> >> However, .the order of the Christian names of his 5 daughters, as given on the 1901 census, is the same on >> both the 1911 census. and Free BDM The 5 sons were all born after the 1901 census so I only have them on >> the 1911 census. >> >> For example, on the1911 census, signed by the father, Joseph Holland, the name of the first son is entered >> as. William J Holland age 9 born in Lambeth. Whereas on Free BDM , for both Lambeth and Surrey, there is a >> Joseph William Holland born 1901 Sept. Lambeth. 1d 348. As the dates of birth given on the Free BDM agree >> with the ages given for each son on the 1911 census., I assume that the Free BDM person , of the same >> birth date, and the 1911 person who fits that age, are the same person, only the order of the Christian >> names, entered by the father, Joseph Holland, differs with the order given on the Free BDM. >> >> Only 2 of the 5 daughters were born in, Lambeth, England , and both their Christian name order and ages >> from the 1911 census and Free BDM are the same for Lambeth and Surrey. . So only the reversal of the >> Christian names of the 5 sons is problematical. >> >> Can anybody please explain this. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Patrick Holland. >> > > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Except when the birth was registered a month after the baptism but would have been after the 7 weeks so Jo in Leics jo.mason@swsmail.net holmested@one-name.orgwas it convenient to gave the registration date as the birth date. The daughter of the person concerned was very amused.

Hello Toni I've found your Gibbs family in 1891: no sign of John, but.... 17 Southsea Road, Croydon GIBBS, Elizabeth Wife Married 43 Charwoman born Croydon Surrey GIBBS, Charles Son Single 22 born Deptford Kent GIBBS, Robert Son Single 13 born Croydon Surrey GIBBS, Annie E Dtr 11 born Croydon Surrey GIBBS, Rose Dtr 6 born Croydon Surrey (Rose born 1885) GIBBS, George H Son 4 born Croydon Surrey (George Henry born 1887) GIBBS, Florence Dtr 6m born Croydon, Surrey (Florence Emily born 1890) So now the hunt is on for them in 1901!! I'm afraid that the only possibility I can find in 1901 for Elizabeth is: Hackney Union Workhouse GIBBS, Elizabeth Pauper Widow Age 52 Charwoman born Croydon There's a Robert Gibbs, age 23, born Croydon in the 1901 - a Stoker in the Royal Navy in Chatham, Kent - Soldiers & Seamans Home. Alice E Gibbs, age 31, a general servant at 91 London Rd, Croydon?? Over to you! Alison Alison

Possibly the sons were known by their second names and that is why the order was reversed on the census - if otherwise they match exactly, I wouldn't worry too much. Have you checked to see if there are any baptisms on Ancestry ? There is this one which I presume is the correct family Joseph William Holland Baptism 16 Jun 1901 Joseph Holland, Bridget Holland Saint Mary At Lambeth Lambeth It would, no doubt, have been confusing to have two Josephs (father & son) in the same family These are probably theirs as well Eliza Holland Baptism 14 Apr 1897 Joseph Holland,Bridget Holland Saint Mary At Lambeth Lambeth Annie Elizabeth Holland Baptism 11 Oct 1899 Joseph Holland,Bridget Holland Saint Mary At Lambeth Lambeth Kathleen Grace Holland Baptism 11 Oct 1899 Joseph Holland, Bridget Holland Saint Mary At Lambeth Lambeth Henry Michael Holland Baptism 18 Feb 1903 Joseph Holland, Bridget Holland Saint Mary The Less Lambeth Who knows why our ancestors did what they did ! Anne South Australia patrick holland wrote: > Hello, > > I have looked at the 1911 census for Joseph Holland who lived in Lambeth at the time he completed the > census and found that the order of the Christian names he gives for his 5 sons on the census, is reversed > on Free BDM. I searched Free BDM under both Lambeth or Surrey and found the same reversal exists in both > Lambeth and Surrey. > > However, .the order of the Christian names of his 5 daughters, as given on the 1901 census, is the same on > both the 1911 census. and Free BDM The 5 sons were all born after the 1901 census so I only have them on > the 1911 census. > > For example, on the1911 census, signed by the father, Joseph Holland, the name of the first son is entered > as. William J Holland age 9 born in Lambeth. Whereas on Free BDM , for both Lambeth and Surrey, there is a > Joseph William Holland born 1901 Sept. Lambeth. 1d 348. As the dates of birth given on the Free BDM agree > with the ages given for each son on the 1911 census., I assume that the Free BDM person , of the same > birth date, and the 1911 person who fits that age, are the same person, only the order of the Christian > names, entered by the father, Joseph Holland, differs with the order given on the Free BDM. > > Only 2 of the 5 daughters were born in, Lambeth, England , and both their Christian name order and ages > from the 1911 census and Free BDM are the same for Lambeth and Surrey. . So only the reversal of the > Christian names of the 5 sons is problematical. > > Can anybody please explain this. > > Thank you. > > Patrick Holland.

Geoff I am with you.....could even be a mistranscription or a result of phonetics with an irish accent............ of Cochrane or Calhoun I suspect. A lot depends on the literacy of the "giver" of information for starters. Followed by the phonestics and listening skills of the census taker, pastor etc And of course finding an Irish person in London (London census taker) If I get time between study and housework tomorrow I shall have a play on ancestry. Cheers Pam from Adelaide Australia (Battersea & Croydon) > Can't help directly except to suggest (1) that perhaps Ellen's Mum had > remarried; (2) that the surname is less likely to be the Jewish Kohane etc > than something Irish like Callaghan, Calhoun etc? > > Geoff > > Geoffrey Chew > g.chew@rhul.ac.uk > > ________________________________ > > From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of Alison Martyn > > Henry Sweetman married Ellen "Kohoane" in 1880 Brentford > > Henry was from Co. Cork, Ireland and Ellen was evidently born in Brighton > c.1856 > > I have a copy of Daniel's birth certificate (1893 - 180 Meyrick Rd, > Battersea) and Ellen's maiden name is given as COHOANE. > > With them in 1901 is...Ellen's mum (age 80 born Ireland). It's really > hard > to make out her surname but it's certainly not Cohoane/Kohoane. She's > either Mary or May...and then Crawley/Crawly/Crowley..something like that. > I've searched for Mary/May's death and can't find it. > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, I have looked at the 1911 census for Joseph Holland who lived in Lambeth at the time he completed the census and found that the order of the Christian names he gives for his 5 sons on the census, is reversed on Free BDM. I searched Free BDM under both Lambeth or Surrey and found the same reversal exists in both Lambeth and Surrey. However, .the order of the Christian names of his 5 daughters, as given on the 1901 census, is the same on both the 1911 census. and Free BDM The 5 sons were all born after the 1901 census so I only have them on the 1911 census. For example, on the1911 census, signed by the father, Joseph Holland, the name of the first son is entered as. William J Holland age 9 born in Lambeth. Whereas on Free BDM , for both Lambeth and Surrey, there is a Joseph William Holland born 1901 Sept. Lambeth. 1d 348. As the dates of birth given on the Free BDM agree with the ages given for each son on the 1911 census., I assume that the Free BDM person , of the same birth date, and the 1911 person who fits that age, are the same person, only the order of the Christian names, entered by the father, Joseph Holland, differs with the order given on the Free BDM. Only 2 of the 5 daughters were born in, Lambeth, England , and both their Christian name order and ages from the 1911 census and Free BDM are the same for Lambeth and Surrey. . So only the reversal of the Christian names of the 5 sons is problematical. Can anybody please explain this. Thank you. Patrick Holland.

Hi Patrick I think you are confusing *quarters* of birth registrations with *months*. Births registered in "June 1897" covered registrations in April, May and June of that year, so may well include births in the last week or so of March as well, etc. Hope this helps Caroline > > Hi Anne, > > Thanks for the Baptism information. The family of Joseph Holland and > Bridget Holland ( nee Sharkey) is the correct one but, except for, > Annie Elizabeth Holland, who was born in Ireland in Dec 1985, all the > other baptismal dates are for dates which are just before the dates > when > the children were actually born. For Example, Joseph William was born > Sept. 1901, Eliza was born June 1897. Kathleen, Grace was born 1900, > Henry Michael was born March 1903. > > I need to sort out the correct order of the Cristian names because I > will need to know that before. I order any BDM certificated for them. > > Thanks Anne. > > Patrick > Perth, Western Australia. > > Anne Chambers wrote: > > Possibly the sons were known by their second names and that is why > the order was reversed on the census - if > > otherwise they match exactly, I wouldn't worry too much. > > > > Have you checked to see if there are any baptisms on Ancestry ? > There is this one which I presume is the > > correct family > > Joseph William Holland Baptism 16 Jun 1901 Joseph > Holland, Bridget Holland Saint Mary At Lambeth Lambeth > > > > It would, no doubt, have been confusing to have two Josephs (father & > son) in the same family > > > > These are probably theirs as well > > Eliza Holland Baptism 14 Apr 1897 Joseph Holland,Bridget > Holland Saint Mary At Lambeth Lambeth > > > > Annie Elizabeth Holland Baptism 11 Oct 1899 Joseph > Holland,Bridget Holland Saint Mary At Lambeth Lambeth > > > > Kathleen Grace Holland Baptism 11 Oct 1899 Joseph > Holland, > > Bridget Holland Saint Mary At Lambeth Lambeth > > > > Henry Michael Holland Baptism 18 Feb 1903 Joseph > Holland, > > Bridget Holland Saint Mary The Less Lambeth > > > > Who knows why our ancestors did what they did ! > > > > Anne > > South Australia > >

Similar spelling to someone who came out to NZ in the 1800s, one here, was Frank William Dundee Quaintrell.. I have heard over the years, the surname was from London, but believe connections with either Canada or USA according to the family I have been in touch with.. wonder if there is a connection at all, hence my reply! Adele Pentony-Graham Carterton District Early Settlers Researcher Carterton Cemetery Clareville Taphophile Group

Hello all, Sorry folks it should read GIBBS, I am searching for anything after 1881, I have trawled Ancestry, Find my Past, Family Search, Free BMD, Google, OZ disc & NZ etc etc. John GIBBS a dime a dozen so worked on the children with little sucsess, it looks like births not registered. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Scott" <jaydeescott@xtra.co.nz> To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [SRY] HEARTFIELD & BIGGS > Toni, > What are you after ? Census ? BMD ? > Daphne. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "toni evans" <toni.evans@xtra.co.nz> > To: <ENG-SURREY@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:22 AM > Subject: [SRY] HEARTFIELD & BIGGS > > >> >> Searching for following family, I have tried everything without sucsess. >> >> Taken from the 1881 census 35 Westfield Rd Croydon, Surrey >> >> John BIGGS b. 1838 Surrey or Kent >> Elizabeth (HEARTFIELD) BIGGS b. 1849 Croydon Surrey, marriage 1875 >> Croydon >> Alice b. BIGGS (HEARTFIELD 1871) b.1868 Deptford Kent >> Albert Charles (HEARTFIELD 1871) b. 1870 New Cross Kent or Surrey >> John R. BIGGS b. 1878 Croydon >> Anne E. BIGGS b. 1880 Croydon >> >> Toni >> *************************************** >> >> > >> > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Toni, What are you after ? Census ? BMD ? Daphne. ----- Original Message ----- From: "toni evans" <toni.evans@xtra.co.nz> To: <ENG-SURREY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:22 AM Subject: [SRY] HEARTFIELD & BIGGS > > Searching for following family, I have tried everything without sucsess. > > Taken from the 1881 census 35 Westfield Rd Croydon, Surrey > > John BIGGS b. 1838 Surrey or Kent > Elizabeth (HEARTFIELD) BIGGS b. 1849 Croydon Surrey, marriage 1875 > Croydon > Alice b. BIGGS (HEARTFIELD 1871) b.1868 Deptford Kent > Albert Charles (HEARTFIELD 1871) b. 1870 New Cross Kent or Surrey > John R. BIGGS b. 1878 Croydon > Anne E. BIGGS b. 1880 Croydon > > Toni > *************************************** > > > >

Searching for following family, I have tried everything without sucsess. Taken from the 1881 census 35 Westfield Rd Croydon, Surrey John BIGGS b. 1838 Surrey or Kent Elizabeth (HEARTFIELD) BIGGS b. 1849 Croydon Surrey, marriage 1875 Croydon Alice b. BIGGS (HEARTFIELD 1871) b.1868 Deptford Kent Albert Charles (HEARTFIELD 1871) b. 1870 New Cross Kent or Surrey John R. BIGGS b. 1878 Croydon Anne E. BIGGS b. 1880 Croydon Toni

Might be worth buying the birth certificate of another child to see if the mother's maiden name is clearer - could save you hours of work. Have you obtained the marriage certificate of Henry and Ellen? She might have been a widow, or both she and her mother might have been married twice Hilary > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:29:28 +1030 > From: "Pam Hillier" <pamhillier24@virginbroadband.com.au> > Subject: Re: [SRY] KOHOANE/COHOANE - SWEETMAN (Battersea > & Croydon) > To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <B3D39D2DC54341848EB149D78BC48B42@GENHILLIER> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; >     reply-type=original > > Geoff I am with you.....could even be a mistranscription or > a result of > phonetics with an irish accent............ of Cochrane or > Calhoun I suspect. > A lot depends on the literacy of the "giver" of information > for starters. > Followed by the phonestics and listening skills of the > census taker, pastor > etc > And of course finding an Irish person in London (London > census taker) > If I get time between study and housework tomorrow I shall > have a play on > ancestry. > Cheers Pam from Adelaide Australia > > (Battersea & Croydon) > > > > Can't help directly except to suggest (1) that perhaps > Ellen's Mum had > > remarried; (2) that the surname is less likely to be > the Jewish Kohane etc > > than something Irish like Callaghan, Calhoun etc? > > > > Geoff > > > > Geoffrey Chew > > g.chew@rhul.ac.uk > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com > on behalf of Alison Martyn > > > > Henry Sweetman married Ellen "Kohoane" in 1880 > Brentford > > > > Henry was from Co. Cork, Ireland and Ellen was > evidently born in Brighton > > c.1856 > > > > I have a copy of Daniel's birth certificate (1893 - > 180 Meyrick Rd, > > Battersea) and Ellen's maiden name is given as > COHOANE. > > > > With them in 1901 is...Ellen's mum (age 80 born > Ireland).  It's really > > hard > > to make out her surname but it's certainly not > Cohoane/Kohoane.  She's > > either Mary or May...and then > Crawley/Crawly/Crowley..something like that. > > I've searched for Mary/May's death and can't find it. > > ***************************************

Here are some possible births Births Mar 1868 (>99%) GIBBS Alice Ellen Wandsworth 1d 609 GIBBS Alice Florence St Saviour 1d 18 Births Jun 1868 (>99%) GIBBS Alice Greenwich 1d 750 This would be a Deptford birth Alice bapt ST MM Peckham 15 Jul 1868. John labourer Births Dec 1869 (>99%) GIBBS Albert Charles Camberwell 1d 653 Births Jun 1878 (>99%) Gibbs John Robert Croydon 2a 210 Marriages Sep 1878 (>99%) GIBBS John Robert St. Saviour 1d 7 Might be worth looking at this fellow – possibly an uncle/ cousin etc Births Jun 1880 (>99%) GIBBS Annie Elizabeth Croydon 2a 217 GIBBS Annie Elizabeth Croydon 2a 247 You will neeed to look at the original scan to decide what page she is on – 217 or 247 Hilary > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:57:25 +1300 > From: "toni evans" <toni.evans@xtra.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [SRY] HEARTFIELD & BIGGS > To: "John Scott" <jaydeescott@xtra.co.nz>, > <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <43F9237E42F3459C91AF737F5EF6E2F1@toni8vz3yxjy9s> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; >     reply-type=original > > Hello all, > > Sorry folks it should read GIBBS, I am searching for > anything after 1881, I > have trawled Ancestry, Find my Past, Family Search, Free > BMD, Google, OZ > disc & NZ etc etc. > John GIBBS a dime a dozen so worked on the children with > little sucsess, it > looks like births not registered. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Scott" <jaydeescott@xtra.co.nz> > To: <eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:35 AM > Subject: Re: [SRY] HEARTFIELD & BIGGS > > > > Toni, > > What are you after ? Census ?  BMD ? > > Daphne. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "toni evans" <toni.evans@xtra.co.nz> > > To: <ENG-SURREY@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:22 AM > > Subject: [SRY] HEARTFIELD & BIGGS > > > > > >> > >> Searching for following family, I have tried > everything without sucsess. > >> > >> Taken from the 1881 census 35 Westfield Rd > Croydon, Surrey > >> > >> John BIGGS b. 1838  Surrey or Kent > >> Elizabeth (HEARTFIELD) BIGGS b. 1849 Croydon > Surrey,  marriage 1875 > >> Croydon > >> Alice b. BIGGS (HEARTFIELD 1871) b.1868 Deptford > Kent > >> Albert Charles (HEARTFIELD 1871) b. 1870 New Cross > Kent or Surrey > >> John R. BIGGS b. 1878 Croydon > >> Anne E. BIGGS b. 1880 Croydon > >> > >> Toni > >> *************************************** > >> > >> > > >> > > >

Since John Gibbs is living in Croydon with the family as a boarder in 1871 (age incorrectly transcribed as 52, he is 32 on the image), I looked for the children under GIBBS: Births Dec 1869 GIBBS Albert Charles Camberwell 1d 653 wrong place of birth but right age, so worth looking at this could be Alice Births Jun 1868 GIBBS Alice Greenwich 1d 750 Anne South Australia toni evans wrote: > Hello all, > > Sorry folks it should read GIBBS, I am searching for anything after 1881, I > have trawled Ancestry, Find my Past, Family Search, Free BMD, Google, OZ > disc& NZ etc etc. > John GIBBS a dime a dozen so worked on the children with little sucsess, it > looks like births not registered. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Scott"<jaydeescott@xtra.co.nz> > To:<eng-surrey@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:35 AM > Subject: Re: [SRY] HEARTFIELD& BIGGS > > >> Toni, >> What are you after ? Census ? BMD ? >> Daphne. >>

I would like to thank everyone for their kind response to my query. I've realised that it's important for me to retrieve the info from Ellen & Henry's marriage certificate, which I bought some years ago now and gave to my mum's friend (grand-daughter of Ellen & Henry). I STUPIDLY didn't keep a copy...so I am going to ask Mum to ring her and hopefully retrieve the full details. Ellen's father's name would be a big help as the family Carol found in 1871 in East Barming, Kent, look like a real possibility. Thanks once again to one and all....Alison

Do you mean GIBBS ? Both the 1881 census and the marriage entry give the surname as GIBBS not BIGGS Perhaps you could rephrase your query, state exactly what you are looking for and give us all the information you have, including where you got it from. Help us to help you ! Anne South Australia toni evans wrote: > > Searching for following family, I have tried everything without sucsess. > > Taken from the 1881 census 35 Westfield Rd Croydon, Surrey > > John BIGGS b. 1838 Surrey or Kent > Elizabeth (HEARTFIELD) BIGGS b. 1849 Croydon Surrey, marriage 1875 Croydon > Alice b. BIGGS (HEARTFIELD 1871) b.1868 Deptford Kent > Albert Charles (HEARTFIELD 1871) b. 1870 New Cross Kent or Surrey > John R. BIGGS b. 1878 Croydon > Anne E. BIGGS b. 1880 Croydon > > Toni > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Eng-Surrey-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SURREY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

What exactly are you looking for and where have you already looked ? Anne toni evans wrote: > > Searching for following family, I have tried everything without sucsess. > > Taken from the 1881 census 35 Westfield Rd Croydon, Surrey > > John BIGGS b. 1838 Surrey or Kent > Elizabeth (HEARTFIELD) BIGGS b. 1849 Croydon Surrey, marriage 1875 Croydon > Alice b. BIGGS (HEARTFIELD 1871) b.1868 Deptford Kent > Albert Charles (HEARTFIELD 1871) b. 1870 New Cross Kent or Surrey > John R. BIGGS b. 1878 Croydon > Anne E. BIGGS b. 1880 Croydon > > Toni

The indexes to admission and discharge registers, 1894-1932, are now available online at http://tinyurl.com/y8bnl2a Scroll down to the bottom of the page to download indexes in PDF format. The registers are held at Surrey History Centre, Woking. Jill Staines, Middlesex

Can't help directly except to suggest (1) that perhaps Ellen's Mum had remarried; (2) that the surname is less likely to be the Jewish Kohane etc than something Irish like Callaghan, Calhoun etc? Geoff Geoffrey Chew g.chew@rhul.ac.uk ________________________________ From: eng-surrey-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of Alison Martyn Henry Sweetman married Ellen "Kohoane" in 1880 Brentford Henry was from Co. Cork, Ireland and Ellen was evidently born in Brighton c.1856 I have a copy of Daniel's birth certificate (1893 - 180 Meyrick Rd, Battersea) and Ellen's maiden name is given as COHOANE. With them in 1901 is...Ellen's mum (age 80 born Ireland). It's really hard to make out her surname but it's certainly not Cohoane/Kohoane. She's either Mary or May...and then Crawley/Crawly/Crowley..something like that. I've searched for Mary/May's death and can't find it.

I wonder if there is any Surrey Super-Sleuth out there who might be able to help me with a real brickwall? Henry Sweetman married Ellen "Kohoane" in 1880 Brentford Henry was from Co. Cork, Ireland and Ellen was evidently born in Brighton c.1856 In the 1881 census I can't find Henry but Ellen (age 30) was working at "The Priory" hospital in Putney. In the 1891 census Henry & Ellen (age 35) are living at 172 Meyrick Road in Battersea with children: Maria 8 (born Kew), John 6 & Nellie 3 (born Battersea) In the 1901 census Henry & Ellen (age 44) are living at 17 Queens Road in Croydon with children: Mary 18, John 16, Ellen 13, Henry 9 and Daniel 7. I have a copy of Daniel's birth certificate (1893 - 180 Meyrick Rd, Battersea) and Ellen's maiden name is given as COHOANE. With them in 1901 is...Ellen's mum (age 80 born Ireland). It's really hard to make out her surname but it's certainly not Cohoane/Kohoane. She's either Mary or May...and then Crawley/Crawly/Crowley..something like that. I've searched for Mary/May's death and can't find it. Then in 1911 they were at 1 Frant Road, Thornton Heath. Henry, Ellen (age 49) and John (who was killed in WW1), Henry & Daniel. Mary had by this time married John Kirby and Ellen/Nellie had married John McCarthy. Can you guess what all this is leading up to?? I can't find Ellen's birth in Brighton - nor can I find her on the 1871 census. Her year of birth could be anything from 1850-1862. If you type the surname Cohoane or Kohoane into Ancestry not one entry comes up (except Ellen's marriage), although there are a few entries for Cohone/Kohone/Cohane/Kohane. They were Roman Catholics so perhaps Ellen's parents thought that as long as she was baptised there was no need to register her birth. And where is May/Mary's death - presumably some time between 1901 and 1911. And where was Henry Sweetman in 1881? If anyone can suggest ANYTHING more I could try I'd be very very grateful. Thanks very much - Alison