Subject: Emma BUCKLEY nee STEVENS 1911 census Hi I am trying to find Emma BUCKLEY nee STEVENS b 1849 Croydon on the 1911 census have been since it first came out with know luck I have just got a will /grant with her on it in 1907 her address is 61 Sunny Bank South Norwood Croydon Surrey I done the place search on 1911 census but it dose not come up ? and one of the ladies she was with on 1901 census at 24 Queens Road is at 57 Mannor Road just round the corner so is there any way I can find out if she was at 61 Sunny Bank in 1911 I had school friends in both these roads spent lots of time there Jean Wilson Perth W.A.

Hi again As Ancestry searches across all databases its relatively easy to do In Ancestry you can either select the 1911 RG78 books and search them alone or select Search, then Advanced Search Then enter the address in the keywords box You may find that parts of the address have been abbreviated so try Street then St, Road then Rd , try combinations as not every house address is recorded in the same way But generally its very useful to try If you don't find the exact address you want in the RG78s try a close one as the summary page lists the addresses close by in order with head of household, once you identify the head of household (usually under Mr or Mrs rather than first name) you can use that with the place/area to identify the right house Ancestry now have the page images of the RG14 householders schedules but they are not indexed, but once you find the right place/area you can easily page through There are also many directories on Ancestry so again worth using the keywords box as it may pick them up at the same time, although you may have to check many hits as the search in directories may find the words searched for in different addresses (even when using " ") Grace is clearly BUCKLEY , have you entered a correction to FMP ? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >> Thank you Nivard >> what a pittiy my Emma was not there >> I have just spent so much money trying to find her on 1911 census >> I did manage to find her Daughter >> Grace Buckley she was put down as >> >> Grace Buskley and at >> Wordleigh >> 20 Crystal Palace Park Road Kent Beckenham >> this is the address she was at in 1915 when she married >> Alfred Taylor in Poplar >> how do you look at the enumerators summary books ? >> it might be worth me looking at all the other address I have got for her >> thanks for the help >> Jean Perth WA

Hi Jean Ancestry have the RG78 enumerators summary books and as their search is far better than the others it gets better results Occupants 61 Sunnybank South Norwood Walter H SIMPSON 26 Winifred " 26 married 3 years i child Violet " 2 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi > I am trying to find Emma BUCKLEY nee STEVENS b 1849 Croydon on > the 1911 census have been since it first came out > with know luck > I have just got a will /grant with her on it > in 1907 her address is > 61 Sunny Bank South Norwood Croydon Surrey > I done the place search on 1911 census but it dose not come up ? > and one of the ladies she was with on 1901 census at 24 Queens Road > is at 57 Mannor Road just round the corner so is there any way > I can find out if she was at 61 Sunny Bank in 1911 > I had school friends in both these roads spent lots of time there > Jean Wilson Perth W.A.

Mary This is what BT directory enquiries came up with: S Wigfield Tel: (020) 8644 7543 - Text Number<http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha.content/en/search/residential/sms.publisha?Referer=U3VybmFtZT13aWdmaWVsZCZ4PTM3Jnk9MTkmTG9jYXRpb249U1VSUkVZJk9yaWdpbmFsTG9jYXRpb249c3VycmV5JlJhbmdlPXhsb2M%3d&Info=IFMgV2lnZmllbGQ%3d&MN=KDAyMCkgODY0NCA3NTQz&PT=wigfield in Surrey> 141 Sutton Com Rd, Sutton, SM1 3HP - Map<http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha.content/en/search/residential/map.publisha?Referer=U3VybmFtZT13aWdmaWVsZCZ4PTM3Jnk9MTkmTG9jYXRpb249U1VSUkVZJk9yaWdpbmFsTG9jYXRpb249c3VycmV5JlJhbmdlPXhsb2M%3d&Info=IFMgV2lnZmllbGQ%3d&Address=MTQxIFN1dHRvbiBDb20gUmQsIFN1dHRvbiwgU00xIDNIUA%3d%3d&MapCode=U00xIDNIUA%3d%3d&PT=wigfield in Surrey> 2. Dr W.J Wigfield Tel: (01323) 506075 - Text Number<http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha.content/en/search/residential/sms.publisha?Referer=U3VybmFtZT13aWdmaWVsZCZ4PTM3Jnk9MTkmTG9jYXRpb249U1VSUkVZJk9yaWdpbmFsTG9jYXRpb249c3VycmV5JlJhbmdlPXhsb2M%3d&Info=RHIgVy5KIFdpZ2ZpZWxk&MN=KDAxMzIzKSA1MDYwNzU%3d&PT=wigfield in Surrey> 22 Tamarack Clo, Eastbourne, BN22 0TR - Map<http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha.content/en/search/residential/map.publisha?Referer=U3VybmFtZT13aWdmaWVsZCZ4PTM3Jnk9MTkmTG9jYXRpb249U1VSUkVZJk9yaWdpbmFsTG9jYXRpb249c3VycmV5JlJhbmdlPXhsb2M%3d&Info=RHIgVy5KIFdpZ2ZpZWxk&Address=MjIgVGFtYXJhY2sgQ2xvLCBFYXN0Ym91cm5lLCBCTjIyIDBUUg%3d%3d&MapCode=Qk4yMiAwVFI%3d&PT=wigfield in Surrey> Hope this helps Mo On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 7:50 PM, Mary Lu Keef <[email protected]>wrote: > The listing did come through. I am in the process of trying to obtain them > from 192.com. > > Thank you so much for your help.... > Mary Lu > > On Jun 17, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Anne Capewell wrote: > > > > > Hi Mary Lu, > > > > I hope this hasn't appeared loads fo times now - I keep having to resend > as it is continually bounced. > > > > 192.com list 2 Roger Wigfields in the south east > http://www.192.com/people/search/?surname=Wigfield&forename=Roger&looking_for=roger%20wigfield&location=South%20East&page=1&searchType=PeopleSimple&symbolicSearchName=Peoplebut you will have to pay to see any more details. > > > > hth, Anne > > > > > > > > > > > > *************************************** > > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Maureen Burton Member ESFHS

Nivard Ovington wrote: > Have you checked the death duties indexes ? > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/death-duty-records-1796-to-1903.htm Hallo I have jsut tried to find someone I know is in the death duty records. The search is coming bakc with no results. I have seen the entry in the index. How can I find out more? Jean Hunter Kent

Hi Mary Lu, I hope this hasn't appeared loads fo times now - I keep having to resend as it is continually bounced. 192.com list 2 Roger Wigfields in the south east http://www.192.com/people/search/?surname=Wigfield&forename=Roger&looking_for=roger%20wigfield&location=South%20East&page=1&searchType=PeopleSimple&symbolicSearchName=People but you will have to pay to see any more details. hth, Anne

Ann would have had to convince the committee that she met the patron's criteria to be given one of the almshouses. It may be that she acquired this money after she moved in, maybe by inheriting it herself. Even in this high tech age with so much information held on computer, unless I have my money in a bank under my name, government or other agencies are unlikely to know how much I am worth. Philip Maddocks Wet dull and cold Somerset getting really annoyed at how nice the weather is in other places ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dalton" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 5:39 PM Subject: [SRY] Almshouse and notations on the cert > Hi all > > Many thanks to all of you who shed light on my questions. I must admit > that given that Ann Dalton had left a will and the estate was valued "at > under 300 pounds" I was a bit confused as to how things were. But then, > what is "under 300 pounds" and what would that have been worth in > current pounds? So, I got my answer. > > Bill in really sunny Gig Harbor > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Bill As you don't give a year or period its difficult to give you better figures but in 1880 £300 was worth £14,493 (although you can value old money in various ways) This may be of interest http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/currency/ Either way its a sizable amount of money and someone who died in an Almshouse is unlikely to have any money As has been said already, the sum in the will may have been substantially lower than the figure stated, particularly if a large debt was found Have you checked the death duties indexes ? http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/death-duty-records-1796-to-1903.htm Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi all > > Many thanks to all of you who shed light on my questions. I must admit > that given that Ann Dalton had left a will and the estate was valued "at > under 300 pounds" I was a bit confused as to how things were. But then, > what is "under 300 pounds" and what would that have been worth in > current pounds? So, I got my answer. > > Bill in really sunny Gig Harbor

Hi. I had similar on a birth certificate from the Isle of Wight. The following was what someone sent to me,. U.S.D (on his Birth Certificate) means Urban Sanitary District. USD was simply a local government term for a given area to be replaced by Urban District Council(UDC) in the 1890 when the proper County Council administration structure was set up with sub division of Rural and Urban District Councils. Most large towns and cities were County Boroughs, and outside the newly creative county administrative structure. Hence USD is not used these days. The term originated with the need to build sewers and provide clean water to the growing towns and villages in Victorian time. Hence the country was divided up in USDs and RSDs. Hope this helps. Ann (NZ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dalton" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 4:07 PM Subject: [SRY] A notation on a birth cert > Hi again > > I have just gotten a birth certificate and have a question about the > place of birth. The information reads "5 Portland Mansions, Portland > Road U. D." What does that U. D. mean. I have also found that same > notation on another cert from Worchester County. > > Bill in now sunny Gig Harbor > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Alms houses were council houses for elderly people they still have them today but they are not called that any more Keith -----Original Message----- From: Bill Dalton Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 2:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [SRY] A death in the almshouse Hi again again I have just received two death certificates and I find that I wonder about the place that they both died. One certificate lists the death as being in the "Little Almshouse, Croydon". Later, her daughter died in the "Almshouse, Croydon". As I understand it, an almshouse was different from the work house and were there to help the poor. But, the first death was for the same Ann Dalton that I earlier posted a question about and mentioned parts of her husbands will in which she was left an interest in several houses and the grocery store. Unless something very unfortunate happened to that wealth was there another reason that she (and her daughter later) were in the almshouse? Could it have been also something along the line of a nursing home where one could live out their last few days? Bill in sunny Gig Harbor *************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Jun 17, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Anne Capewell wrote: > > Hi Mary Lu, > > I hope this hasn't appeared loads fo times now - I keep having to resend as it is continually bounced. > > 192.com list 2 Roger Wigfields in the south east http://www.192.com/people/search/?surname=Wigfield&forename=Roger&looking_for=roger%20wigfield&location=South%20East&page=1&searchType=PeopleSimple&symbolicSearchName=People but you will have to pay to see any more details. > > hth, Anne > > > > > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The listing did come through. I am in the process of trying to obtain them from 192.com. Thank you so much for your help.... Mary Lu On Jun 17, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Anne Capewell wrote: > > Hi Mary Lu, > > I hope this hasn't appeared loads fo times now - I keep having to resend as it is continually bounced. > > 192.com list 2 Roger Wigfields in the south east http://www.192.com/people/search/?surname=Wigfield&forename=Roger&looking_for=roger%20wigfield&location=South%20East&page=1&searchType=PeopleSimple&symbolicSearchName=People but you will have to pay to see any more details. > > hth, Anne > > > > > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all Many thanks to all of you who shed light on my questions. I must admit that given that Ann Dalton had left a will and the estate was valued "at under 300 pounds" I was a bit confused as to how things were. But then, what is "under 300 pounds" and what would that have been worth in current pounds? So, I got my answer. Bill in really sunny Gig Harbor

Bill, I am assuming this is a UK birth certificate. U.D. means Urban District which is normally a local government administrative area. No disrespect here, but I couldn't help but note your spelling of Worcestershire. Is the way in which you wrote it correct, or have you put up the phonetic equivalent? I prefer to adhere to the "native tongue" spellings to avoid confusion etc. > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 21:07:21 -0700 > From: Bill Dalton <[email protected]> > Subject: [SRY] A notation on a birth cert > To: [email protected] > > Hi again > > I have just gotten a birth certificate and have a question about the > place of birth.  The information reads "5 Portland Mansions, Portland > Road U. D."  What does that U. D. mean.  I have also found that same > notation on another cert from Worchester County. > > Bill in now sunny Gig Harbor > > -- Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. Member of: - E. Surrey Family History Society          )   And in http://www.eastsurreyfhs.org.uk/           )   very Lincolnshire Family History Society       )  good http://www.lincolnshirefhs.org.uk/          )  company.

This is an extension of what has been going on since Biblical times; see the Parable of the Widow's mite? Alms were given out to the poor; the beggars of the parish. I would suggest that almshouses are the forerunners of housing associations (at least what was known as housing associations before 1974). In Victorian times they were highly paternalistic and interfered greatly in the day to day behaviour of "their" tenants; see Octavia Hill; Guiness Trust etc. Workhouses were based on the notion that the idle should have to work to put a roof over their heads; a punishment for not providing for themselves. Almshouses were about the 'feel-good' factor; the 'pennies in heaven' notion that by handing out a few pounds whilst alive a rich person might just get into the 'Kingdom of Heaven' (see bible again ref: camel and eye of needle) or at least ease their conscience for grinding their local employees into the ground to make their fortune in the first place. See also Model villages such as New Lanark; the influence of Clark's shoemakers on the behaviour of the residents of Street village in Somerset. Philip Maddocks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caroline Bradford" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [SRY] A death in the almshouse > Hello Bill > > Almshouses were, in a sense, the forerunners of workhouses. They were > founded, often by Livery Companies, corporate bodies or private wealthy > individuals, as homes for the elderly deserving poor. Residents were > often > subject to quite strict rules, especially in relation to religious > observance. By the 19th century, getting a place in an almshouse would > have > been a stroke of luck for an elderly person, Ann would have had to have > quite limited means to qualify. The "Little Almshouse" in Croydon was > founded in the sixteenth century by the Parish of Croydon on land owned by > the existing Elis David Almshouse (established a century or more earlier > by > Elias David, a City mercer). > > If your Ann ended her days in an Almshouse then it is highly probable that > the money had somehow been spent, or had never existed. Just because a > will > appears to leave this, that and the other does not mean it actually > exists. > Wills could be made some years in advance of death and it is not that > uncommon for the actual estate to be somewhat different from the assets > referred to in a will. > > Hope this helps > > Caroline > >>

Hello Bill Almshouses were, in a sense, the forerunners of workhouses. They were founded, often by Livery Companies, corporate bodies or private wealthy individuals, as homes for the elderly deserving poor. Residents were often subject to quite strict rules, especially in relation to religious observance. By the 19th century, getting a place in an almshouse would have been a stroke of luck for an elderly person, Ann would have had to have quite limited means to qualify. The "Little Almshouse" in Croydon was founded in the sixteenth century by the Parish of Croydon on land owned by the existing Elis David Almshouse (established a century or more earlier by Elias David, a City mercer). If your Ann ended her days in an Almshouse then it is highly probable that the money had somehow been spent, or had never existed. Just because a will appears to leave this, that and the other does not mean it actually exists. Wills could be made some years in advance of death and it is not that uncommon for the actual estate to be somewhat different from the assets referred to in a will. Hope this helps Caroline > > I have just received two death certificates and I find that I wonder > about the place that they both died. One certificate lists the death > as > being in the "Little Almshouse, Croydon". Later, her daughter died in > the "Almshouse, Croydon". As I understand it, an almshouse was > different from the work house and were there to help the poor. > > But, the first death was for the same Ann Dalton that I earlier posted > a > question about and mentioned parts of her husbands will in which she > was > left an interest in several houses and the grocery store. Unless > something very unfortunate happened to that wealth was there another > reason that she (and her daughter later) were in the almshouse? Could > it have been also something along the line of a nursing home where one > could live out their last few days? > > Bill in sunny Gig Harbor

Almshouses were usually provided by local paternalistic philantropic rich people such as the lord of the manor or local business men who wanted to be remembered. They paid for the houses to be built and put money in trust to pay for the maintenance and subsidise the rent. There would be a restriction on who could live there; usually the poor of the parish or adjoining parish; sometime elderly spinsters of the parish; sometimes elderly farm workers of the parish. There are hundreds of these across the country. You may find that some have ridiculously low rents or that the tenant had to perform some task to acknowledge the generosity of the founder. I know of one where the residents had to ring a bell on the wall when they pass in and out of the scheme although I don't know if they still have to. The row of houses was at the gate of his estate so he could feel good about himself every time he left and arrived and could feel good about himself every time he heard the bell ring. Try googling. Philip Maddocks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 6:38 AM Subject: Re: [SRY] A death in the almshouse > Alms houses were council houses for elderly people they still have them > today but they are not called that any more Keith > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Dalton > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 2:20 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [SRY] A death in the almshouse > > Hi again again > > I have just received two death certificates and I find that I wonder > about the place that they both died. One certificate lists the death as > being in the "Little Almshouse, Croydon". Later, her daughter died in > the "Almshouse, Croydon". As I understand it, an almshouse was > different from the work house and were there to help the poor. > > But, the first death was for the same Ann Dalton that I earlier posted a > question about and mentioned parts of her husbands will in which she was > left an interest in several houses and the grocery store. Unless > something very unfortunate happened to that wealth was there another > reason that she (and her daughter later) were in the almshouse? Could > it have been also something along the line of a nursing home where one > could live out their last few days? > > Bill in sunny Gig Harbor > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

UD means Urban District Assuming that by 'Worchester County' you mean Worcestershire in England. The English never use the word County as a suffix on English county names, it's generally regarded as an americanism where they do append it for most counties in most states. In fact the 'shire' on the end of many county names means 'county' and as a general rule (there are always exceptions), the 'shire is only added when there can be confusion between the county name and the name of the principal city in that county. Sometimes because of name changes that possible confusion has disappeared but the county may still use the 'shire' suffix from tradition. Thus you would never find 'shire appended to Essex, Surrey or Kent etc. Where you do have such as Nottingham (the city) and Nottinghamshire (the county). You can see that Nottinghamshire County would literally mean 'Nottingham County County'. For those thinking of such as 'Surrey County Council' (substitute the county of your choice) this literally means 'the County Council of the County of Surrey ( pause for breath) thus the word County is a prefix to Council not a suffix to the county name. In Ireland you find County as a prefix word to county names and this also applies to one English county; County Durham. MickG On 06/17/2011 12:07 AM, Bill Dalton wrote: > Hi again > > I have just gotten a birth certificate and have a question about the > place of birth. The information reads "5 Portland Mansions, Portland > Road U. D." What does that U. D. mean. I have also found that same > notation on another cert from Worchester County. > > Bill in now sunny Gig Harbor > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On 16/06/2011 16:54, Daphne Harvey wrote: > Hi Nivard, John and Judy. > > Yes, Nivard, I had realised that I had only the Pallots Index, but didn't know it was on separate cards. > We are back to 1801 for the marriage. I had wondered at the big gap between the issuing of the licence and the marriage: Judy you had it as 1802 - a mistranscription? Now it's only a few days - very quick, for whatever reason. > Nivard and John, the "John Bilsher" witness, is probably John Oldis Boucher, Mary's father ( I found her baptism at St. Clement Danes, Westminster) Numerous spellings occur of both Oldis and Boucher. > There were at least two families of Pavey's in Kingston, I believe, just to muddy the waters, and, rather unusual, another Lazarus lurking in the wings. I once found a record of his death, but nothing else. > Thank you, Nivard, for getting me back on track; you are very good at that, I've noticed. > > Daphne > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > I have e-mailed the North Kingston centre to see what records they hold for the time Lazarus was baptised. I'll post the reply when I get it.

Daphne and John (and Nivard), My typo, many apologies. 1801 it is. Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Daphne Harvey We are back to 1801 for the marriage. I had wondered at the big gap between the issuing of the licence and the marriage: Judy you had it as 1802 - a mistranscription?