As part of my one-name study into the family name of MARTER/MARTYR and when I was living in the UK 3 years ago, I spent many hours sifting through the Effingham, Surrey baptism, marriage and burial fiches and transcribing all MARTER/MARTYR records. Unfortunately, I seem to have lost these pages in our move from UK to USA where I now live and despite having access to the WSFHS CDs on these record types, have been unable to find but a few of the dozens of records that I know I painstakingly transcribed from the fiches. In particular I seem to have hardly any baptism records. Does anyone know if there is an easy way to find/extract these again without repeating what I have already done ? I have two family trees for the MARTER/MARTYR families of Effingham with some years and some dates attached to some of them but have no source records to confirm the tree layout. I understand one of the families were Anabaptists and the other was not. Hoping for some helpful suggestions/ideas please. Tony MARTER

I thought you all might be interested in the following meeting at Richmond. Looks an interesting talk and could unlock the Occupational mysteries that abound in Family History. Our next meeting is on Saturday, July 9th at our usual time and venue Vestry Hall, 21, Paradise Road, Richmond at 2:30 (doors open at 2:00) This month our guest speaker will be Dr Chris Watts. The subject of Chris's talk is "English Occupational Records" One of the top research objectives of Family Historians, having compiled a basic family tree, is to discover their ancestors' occupations. Although there is no single resource that will satisfy this need, there are a vast number of records that can help. In his talk. Chris will be looking at some of the records available to us and what they might reveal. This will include those employed or licensed by central and local government, such as the armed forces, police, railwaymen, merchant seamen, inn-keepers and more besides. He will also be making some reference to the tax on apprenticeships. We hope that you will be able to join us on Saturday the 9th of July for what we know will be a great talk, from yet another top quality speaker. Look forward to seeing you (and any friends or relatives you care to bring along). Maureen Burton Member ESFHS -- Maureen Burton Member ESFHS

Hi Paul, Did you collate all your findings into a database......? Have you checked non-conformist Parish registers as well........My Hilliers actually bounced between the two C of E and non conformist in the 1700's.......so don't discount them like I did for years. Is it possible that the second Mary was the wife of a son Christopher (of Christopher) It's hard I know, but because you have four missing children and missing deaths, have you tried Chessington PR's? Perhaps they returned to her home town for a spell......or moved with work....... The trouble when you get this far back is no census data, so really you are resorting to the IGI, The National death index, pallots marriage index and other such data.......even online trees, with the hope of confirming it yourself later. I tend to get very pedantic and search Parish registers within a 10 mile radius of the home Parish.......ie Epsom. You might narrow things down by asking if anyone on the list has particular parishes, thus elimiating them..... AND also googling for PR's online, perhaps eliminating others from your search quadrant. Hey cherub, if it was easy everyone would do it. Chuckle. Happy hunting. Pam I am forever trying to solve the Eggleton mystery in the mid 1700's in Epsom. I have searched all (I think all) of the Epsom church records. My 4x gt gf was Christopher EGGLETON (Egleton/Eagleton and even Aggleton are variations). There are many baptisms at the parish church Epsom with Christopher as the father starting with dau Sarah in 1754 wife Mary as the mother. They continue with Sarah as the mother - starting with Mary 1757 and ending with Robert 1782 and then the last one is another with Mary as the mother - James 1786. I have found the marriage of Christopher to a Mary Reynolds in neighboring Chessington in 1763. The 1754 entry is the earliest Epsom record of an Eggleton and I thought there was Christopher the elder, whose wife was Mary and they moved into Epsom and 1754 was the final child and the younger Christopher m. a Sarah and then had all the other children but what about the final one with mother Mary? OR - they got the names of the mothers wrong - there are 11 with mother Sarah - they can't have got it wrong 11 times. So who was Mary? Also I can trace every child except 4 in the middle Elizabeth 1764, John 1765, Thomas 1767 and Hannah 1770 they have just disappeared. I found the burial of a Christopher in Epsom in 1788 but nothing at all regarding the wives Sarah and/or Mary. Help would be gratefully received. Paul

I just wanted to thank Cliff and John (they know who they are without surnames) for their very kind responses to my queries on the George IV Public House in Croydon. After many years trying to locate Benjamin Revell who was born in Suffolk, and knowing that there was a possibility that he moved to Surrey to be a publican, I thought I would post a note on the Surrey Digest and bingo. It has now been established that he was the landlord of the George IV Public House because his name was mentioned in the 1927 and 1938 Street Directories. (thank you again Alison) Living in Australia it is so difficult to source any information and data after the 1911 census from a remote location so I very much appreciate the assistance that has been given to me so far. Hopefully a postcard or a photo of the George IV Public House may come to light. It would be a wonderful thing to find and I am forever hopeful. Thank you to all once again, Desley Revell Brisbane Australia

Hi Bill The IGI has JOHN BROWN Spouse: ANN PLOWMAN Marriage: 11 SEP 1803 Saint John The Baptist, Croydon, Surrey, England M098654 1765 - 1810 0994332 Film 6906226 Film A late marriage ? Seems a long chance that two couples of the same names married in the same place Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > I am looking for the marriage of a John Brown to Ann Plowman, which was > probably in Croydon (but who knows?). This might have been a second > marriage for her since there is some hint that she might have had a > brother John Cole. The time period would have been around 1777 since > that is the estimated birth year of the oldest child of theirs. > > Thank you > Bill

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Marriage of John Brown to Ann Plowman Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:07:02 -0700 From: Bill Dalton <[email protected]> To: [email protected] I am looking for the marriage of a John Brown to Ann Plowman, which was probably in Croydon (but who knows?). This might have been a second marriage for her since there is some hint that she might have had a brother John Cole. The time period would have been around 1777 since that is the estimated birth year of the oldest child of theirs. Thank you Bill

Dear listers, I am seeking my name's sake in the 1861 Census. In the 1841 Census, Jonathan NIXEY and his wife Sophia (late LLEWELLYN formerly BRADDY) are at Lambeth, Surrey. In the 1851 Census, Jonathan and Sophia are again at Lambeth, Surrey. I can't find them in the 1861 Census, so if anyone can help in this regard, I'd be deeply grateful. I've tried Ancestry, familysearch.org and FMP, but to no avail. Maybe they were missed or the page was damaged or missing? Jonathan's death is registered in the Pancras registration district in 1867, he was 57 years old. In the 1871 Census, widowed Sophia is now at St Pancras. Shortly after that Census, Sophia dies in the Pancras RD (Apr-Jun 1871), aged 69. Many thanks in advance for any help, best wishes, Jon

I am forever trying to solve the Eggleton mystery in the mid 1700's in Epsom. I have searched all (I think all) of the Epsom church records. My 4x gt gf was Christopher EGGLETON (Egleton/Eagleton and even Aggleton are variations). There are many baptisms at the parish church Epsom with Christopher as the father starting with dau Sarah in 1754 wife Mary as the mother. They continue with Sarah as the mother - starting with Mary 1757 and ending with Robert 1782 and then the last one is another with Mary as the mother - James 1786. I have found the marriage of Christopher to a Mary Reynolds in neighboring Chessington in 1763. The 1754 entry is the earliest Epsom record of an Eggleton and I thought there was Christopher the elder, whose wife was Mary and they moved into Epsom and  1754 was the final child and the younger Christopher m. a Sarah and then had all the other children but what about the final one with mother Mary? OR - they got the names of the mothers wrong - there are 11 with mother Sarah - they can't have got it wrong 11 times. So who was Mary? Also I can trace every child except 4 in the middle Elizabeth 1764, John 1765, Thomas 1767 and Hannah 1770 they have just disappeared. I found the burial of a Christopher in Epsom in 1788 but nothing at all regarding the wives Sarah and/or Mary. Help would be gratefully received. Paul

Have a postcard of the Old George public house which may be the same. Photo sent off list Regards Cliff Webb

Hi Dave I agree with your description of beer house rather than a hostillery A Hostelry was a place that provided lodging and entertainment, rather than just sold beer But a Licenced Victualler was someone licenced to sell alcoholic beverages and also sold food Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) (a licensee :-) >> Hi Ian, >> >> Inn keeper maybe correct, in my hubby's tree there are several families that ran a small >> 'hostillery' from their front room as a secondary occupation. >> > That might be better described as a 'beer house', rather than an inn. > Anyone describing himself as an 'innkeeper' would be in charge of an inn > that provided lodging for guests. NB also 'licensed victualler' who > would provide beer/spirits for consumption on the premises. > > -- > Regards > Dave

On 25/06/11 19:09, Dorri Roughley wrote: > > Hi Ian, > > Inn keeper maybe correct, in my hubby's tree there are several families that ran a small 'hostillery' from their front room as a secondary occupation. > That might be better described as a 'beer house', rather than an inn. Anyone describing himself as an 'innkeeper' would be in charge of an inn that provided lodging for guests. NB also 'licensed victualler' who would provide beer/spirits for consumption on the premises. -- Regards Dave

I just wanted to thank Alison through the Surrey Digest for her assistance with information regarding Benjamin Revell. It was very much appreciated. If anyone has any information or a postcard on the George IV Public House in Croydon I would love to hear from you. Benjamin Revell was the landlord of the Public House at least from 1927 through to 1938. Desley Revell Brisbane Australia

Hi Ian, Inn keeper maybe correct, in my hubby's tree there are several families that ran a small 'hostillery' from their front room as a secondary occupation. Best Wishes, Dorri > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 10:55:59 +0000 > Subject: [SRY] Chertsey 1838 > > > > Chertsey 1838 > > > > I'm still trying to solve several mysteries in my PAGE ancestry. My great great grandfather was HENRY WILLIAM PAGE; his occupation during his short life (he died of consumption aged 29 in 1842) was variously recorded as (among others) butcher, clerk, coach proprietor. > > > > In 1838 (9 May) his first son (Henry James) was born in CHERTSEY. The birth certificate is very precise: 'at ten minutes after 7 o'clock in the evening, Chertsey'. On this certificate Henry William Page's occupation was stated as INNKEEPER. This strikes me as unlikely to be accurate, but I wonder if anyone with knowledge of Chertsey at that date, or with easy access to records, would be kind enough to look for any reference to a Henry William Page (wife's name Ann, formerly Bevan). If I can find out what he was doing in Chertsey it may yield more clues about this Page family. Henry William was a native of St James (his father lived in Bury Street) and had worked for some time as an 'attendant' at St James's Club House (Crockford's); next he was found in Cheltenham, where he met and married his wife in 1837 in the new-fangled Register Office. > > > > Any help or suggestions gratefully received! > > Ian > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Surrey History Centre has launched SURCAT, its new online catalogue of archive holdings. Go to: http://www.surreyarchives.org.uk/Calmview/ The catalogue can be searched by keyword(s), dates or collection reference. If you have any comments on the new catalogue, please email your feedback to [email protected] Thanks Jill Hyams

Hi Rosemary & Ian Whilst a time on a certificate is a possible indication of twins, there were some registrars who misunderstood the instructions and entered dates on all their entries in the early days This seems to have stopped after a few years of Civil registration Generally a twins registration would be on the same page or an adjacent one Checking the other entries around the one found may give an indication if that was the case here , a phone call to the local office may get help on it Most I have found to be quite helpful Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Ian > > The fact that the birth certificate of Henry James Page in May 1838 showed > the time of birth suggests that this may have been a multiple birth. > English birth certificates do not ususally show the time of birth unless > there was more than one baby. > > FreeBMD shows the birth of a Martha Page June quarter 1838 in Chertsey. Her > birth record appears on page 51. Henry J's appears on page 41. It is a > possibility they were twins. > > Worth looking into? > > Regards > Rosemary Brumfield

Ian The fact that the birth certificate of Henry James Page in May 1838 showed the time of birth suggests that this may have been a multiple birth. English birth certificates do not ususally show the time of birth unless there was more than one baby. FreeBMD shows the birth of a Martha Page June quarter 1838 in Chertsey. Her birth record appears on page 51. Henry J's appears on page 41. It is a possibility they were twins. Worth looking into? Regards Rosemary Brumfield

I am very grateful for this suggestion, which opens up new lines of enquiry! Ian

Chertsey 1838 I'm still trying to solve several mysteries in my PAGE ancestry. My great great grandfather was HENRY WILLIAM PAGE; his occupation during his short life (he died of consumption aged 29 in 1842) was variously recorded as (among others) butcher, clerk, coach proprietor. In 1838 (9 May) his first son (Henry James) was born in CHERTSEY. The birth certificate is very precise: 'at ten minutes after 7 o'clock in the evening, Chertsey'. On this certificate Henry William Page's occupation was stated as INNKEEPER. This strikes me as unlikely to be accurate, but I wonder if anyone with knowledge of Chertsey at that date, or with easy access to records, would be kind enough to look for any reference to a Henry William Page (wife's name Ann, formerly Bevan). If I can find out what he was doing in Chertsey it may yield more clues about this Page family. Henry William was a native of St James (his father lived in Bury Street) and had worked for some time as an 'attendant' at St James's Club House (Crockford's); next he was found in Cheltenham, where he met and married his wife in 1837 in the new-fangled Register Office. Any help or suggestions gratefully received! Ian

www.old-maps.co.uk shows the George IV pub on its 1870-1887 Croydon map almost opposite Wellesley Court Road. Looks like Croydon College is there now - perhaps they might have something on the history of the road? Try www.historicaldirectories.org for any previous landlords. Also found this http://deadpubs.co.uk/SurreyPubs/Croydon/GeorgeIV.shtml which is quite interesting. hth, Anne > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:37:23 +0100 > Subject: Re: [SRY] Licensee of The George Pub, Croydon, Surrey > > Hi Desley > > You're quite right, The George seems to have been on the corner of George > St/High Street where the NatWest bank now stands. However, I have a 1927 > Street Directory for Croydon and your Benjamin G Revell was landlord of the > George IV public house at 94 George Street. He was still there in 1938 > (entry in telephone directory). Long gone, I'm afraid but if you Google > Streetview it, walking up George Street from High Street/North End, you > cross the junction with Wellesley Rd/Park Lane and it would have been on the > right - before you get to East Croydon Station on the left. Somewhere where > the AIG building/Croydon College is now, I would think - near the statue of > the man on a horse. It was next door to the Fairfield Mission Hall. > I've got quite a lot of books with photos of old Croydon - I'll see what I > can find. > > Alison > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Desley Revell" <[email protected]> > To: "Surrey Digest" <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 10:11 AM > Subject: [SRY] Licensee of The George Pub, Croydon, Surrey > > > >I am hoping someone may be able to assist me. > > > > > > > > My husband remembers, as a child, visiting his great uncle who was the > > licensee of a pub in Croydon. This would have been around 1937-1938. > > > > > > > > He feels pretty sure it was The George Pub on the High Street. I have > > checked the internet and there is a George Pub on the corner of High > > Street > > & George Street, Croydon. > > > > > > > > His great uncle was Benjamin Revell and my husband can remember his great > > uncle had a business card with the words "Revell the devil" printed on it > > with a devil character on the card. > > > > > > > > Would someone out there have any information on The George Pub and who the > > licensees would have been going back to the late 1930s. > > > > > > > > Living in Australia, it is very difficult to source this type of > > information. > > > > > > > > Any assistance with this research would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > > Desley Revell > > > > Brisbane, Australia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *************************************** > > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > > superfluous old messages in replies. > > > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ----- > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3722 - Release Date: 06/23/11 > > > > *************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The George Inn was indeed on the corner of George Street, and as has already been stated occupied the site of NatWest, whose address is 1 High Street. It was converted from its use as an Inn a very long time ago indeed. In 1882 John Corbett Anderson* wrote " .and some hostels that were old, such as "The George" which stood at the corner of George Street, opposite Whitgift's Hospital, no longer serve the purposes of an inn, but have been converted into shops or private dwellings." The bank building, which replaced the "shops or private dwellings" was built for a predecessor company of Nat West, the London and County Bank but I cannot remember when it opened, but I believe that it was not long before the First World War - certainly a long time before 1937/38. The Inn that stood diagonally opposite was "The Crown", it seems that royalist sentiments abounded in Croydon when these Inns were named. "The Crown" was on the corner of Crown Hill which is a part of Church Street and a continuum of George Street. Barclay's bank occupy the site of "The Crown" which disappeared far later than "The George". *A Short Chronicle Concerning the Parish of Croydon by John Corbet Anderson, Reeves and Turner, London, 1882. Regards John