Dear All Why the need for the BMD Sites when we have FreeBMD ? I was asked this question recently by a subscriber and Ian Hartas's answer says it all .... see below ... I believe the point has not been understood. I hope I can explain the importance of the local BMD projects here. A gent by the name of Mike Foster, whose web pages are at: http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mikefost/ , wrote two books on the subject of the inadequacy of the GRO indexes. Why does this subject warrant two books ? Consider the process of BMD registration. All records are taken at the local register offices. Every three months secondary copies of these register entries were created and then re-indexed to create the GRO. i.e. the GRO is a secondary index based on a secondary copy of the original records. With every copying and re-indexing there's scope for errors and omissions. The number of errors and omissions were sufficient for Mike Foster to produce his two volumes. Do you really want to only work from flawed data ? As genealogists, we are always advised to go to the original source for all our information. As can be seen above, the GRO cannot be considered as an original source -- it's a flawed secondary copy. 1837online gives access to complete copies of the GRO's flawed data, but at a price ! FreeBMD gives free access as its name suggests, but once again, it's to GRO indexes. Hence, the need for on-line copies of the local BMD records should be clear. 1) They are the original ones, hence they are more likely to be complete with less transription errors due to the multiple copying inherent in the GRO's version. 2) The manner in which the information is gathered means that marriages are paired when viewed on-line. The GRO does not offer this. i.e. you stand more chance of finding the right marriage first time. 3) The church/venue for the marriage is listed in the local BMD on-line index, again helping in the location process. 4) The former married name and maiden names for ladies remarrying are given in the local BMDs on-line index. 5) Location of the B M or D is more specific, i.e. the registration district is more geographically precise. All of these factors show that the level of confidence and accuracy is far higher with the local BMD websites than with any GRO based site. The GRO index still plays a good role as a tool for genealogists, but to anyone asking me now, my advice is always to follow the search order of: Local BMD FreeBMD 1837online One interpretation of the forthcoming changes in the registration of BMDs is that there will be an even greater need for local indexes as one possibilty is that local records will be moved to centralised locations, e.g. all Cheshire records will be moved to Chester, and the GRO index will be scraped. If this is the case, then FreeBMD and 1837online will become nothing more than locating tools, allowing you to find an area into which you search for local records.

Hi All As webmaster for the StaffordshireBMD site I get an awful lot of requests asking what town is in what Registration District. All the answers can be found at the following URL ..... http://www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/reg/index.htm just follow the links to the Staffordshire Page. regards Bill ======================================================= The Staffordshire BMD can be found at http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk (If you live in the North/Mid Staffs area or South Cheshire area and would like to help Photostating,Transcribing or Co-ordinating then please email me asap please!!) =======================================================

Hello List, I thought it was about time to post my "Names" BROOKS (ES) Halesowen & Stourbridge COOPER " " SHERLOCK /SHARLOCK Derbys & Stoke on Trent EDWARDS Stoke on Trent BENTLEY " " GWILT /GUILT Shropshire, Kingswinford, Stoke on Trent. PETERS Oldbury COLLINGE Manchester CHARLESWORTH Derbys. KILBY Winchcombe Glos PETHER Oxfordshire VARNHAM Hertfordshire Thats the tip of the iceberg but should be enough to wake up the List! Any input welcomed. Terry Brooks

Dear Pamela, Very many thanks indeed for the 1851 census indexes. I will chase these up. Also for the other suggestions. I am determined to break this 25 year old 'Brick wall' Regards Daphne P

Hi Daphne, I don't know of the areas you mentioned but there's a Tunstall,which is near to Kidsgrove and Goldenhill.If you get no better offers let me know and I'll see if I can help as I was born and bred between the towns. All the Best, Helen. ----- Original Message ----- From: <LADAPeidrib@aol.com> To: <ENG-STS-THE-POTTERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 3:37 PM Subject: [Pots] Bowker > Hi Everyone, > > I am a new member to this list and hoping someone can help me out. I know > nothing of the Staffordshire area, but have found the following in the London > 1851 census. It is the place name 'Kingsmill' , that is the best I can make > of it, that interests me. Could there be a place by that name near Trysull? > > Joseph Bowker m Sarah 51c 38 born Kingsmill? A tailor Sarah 30 born Newport > living 4 Little Sussex Place Paddington ref.467/56 > with them two daughters Matilda E 2 born Birmingham War. and Katherine S 5 > months born Paddington. > > Any help in this matter would be gratefully received. > > Regards > > Daphne P > > > ==== ENG-STS-THE-POTTERIES Mailing List ==== > The List for the Pottery Towns of the Ancient County of Staffordshire >

Hi Everyone, I am a new member to this list and hoping someone can help me out. I know nothing of the Staffordshire area, but have found the following in the London 1851 census. It is the place name 'Kingsmill' , that is the best I can make of it, that interests me. Could there be a place by that name near Trysull? Joseph Bowker m Sarah 51c 38 born Kingsmill? A tailor Sarah 30 born Newport living 4 Little Sussex Place Paddington ref.467/56 with them two daughters Matilda E 2 born Birmingham War. and Katherine S 5 months born Paddington. Any help in this matter would be gratefully received. Regards Daphne P

Daphne: I have found, when trying to pin down the location of places, that www.genuki.org.uk is one of the best sources of information. When you first access the site, click on "Contents and Search" in the top, right-hand corner. Then, click on GENUKI Search Engine and type in the name of the place you are looking for. In your case, KINGSMILL turns up 64 hits, none of which seem to include Staffordshire or Warwickshire. Take a look, you may be able to find the Kingsmill that your Joseph Bowker was born in. The other option is to go to the PRO catalogue, click on "Search the Catalogue" on the left and type in the name of the place. You may find a hint there. Also, the 1851 surname index for Staffordshire shows the following Bowker entries. If you pin Joseph down to Staffordshire, you may find some of his family in the following areas. 1999 - 158 Stafford 1999 - 458 Stafford 2001 - 023 Newcastle under Lyme 2005 - 335 Stoke on Trent 2006 - 157 Stoke on Trent 2010 - 116 Uttoxeter 2016 - 319 Penkridge 2017 - 119 Wolverhampton 2017 - 434 Wolverhampton 2017 - 439 Wolverhampton 2017 - 449 Wolverhampton 2017 - 450 Wolverhampton 2018 - 193 Wolverhampton 2018 - 320 Wolverhampton 2021 - 438 Wolverhampton 2022 - 179 Walsall 2022 - 259 Walsall 2022 - 260 Walsall 2029 - 060 Dudley - Tipton Happy Hunting! Pamela White Victoria BC Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: <LADAPeidrib@aol.com> To: <ENG-STS-THE-POTTERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 7:37 AM Subject: [Pots] Bowker > Hi Everyone, > > I am a new member to this list and hoping someone can help me out. I know > nothing of the Staffordshire area, but have found the following in the London > 1851 census. It is the place name 'Kingsmill' , that is the best I can make > of it, that interests me. Could there be a place by that name near Trysull? > > Joseph Bowker m Sarah 51c 38 born Kingsmill? A tailor Sarah 30 born Newport > living 4 Little Sussex Place Paddington ref.467/56 > with them two daughters Matilda E 2 born Birmingham War. and Katherine S 5 > months born Paddington. > > Any help in this matter would be gratefully received. > > Regards > > Daphne P > > > ==== ENG-STS-THE-POTTERIES Mailing List ==== > The List for the Pottery Towns of the Ancient County of Staffordshire >

Hi list, I am a bit late on the scene but this site may help if you are searching for old streets. http://www.thepotteries.org/streets/re_old_b.htm Regards, Terry Brooks

The following records have been added to the Staffordshire BMD ....... Births - Leek, (1906 to 1935) Staffordshire Moorlands Registration District.(entries 11,186) regards Bill Harrison Staffordshire BMD Webmaster ======================================================= The Staffordshire BMD can be found at http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk (If you live in the North/Mid Staffs area or South Cheshire area and would like to help Photostating,Transcribing or Co-ordinating then please email me asap please!!) =======================================================

Hi I am new to this list and not sure if I am on the right list so please can someone point me in the right direction. I am looking for the name of Waltho in the Cheadle or Uttoxeter area. Thanks in advance Helen

At 12:19 10/10/03 +1300, Helen wrote: ... >Here a few random references to PANKHURST Many thanks - wonderful information! Andy.

At 07:54 10/10/03 +0100, you wrote: ... >I was surprised to see that two William Ratcliffes died in Stoke during the quarter up to March 1891. One was aged 42 and the other only 4. I wonder if their deaths were connected and how would I find out ? Would it be covered by a local newspaper ? I had a similar find in WRY and asked someone more experienced - she said in her experience is was quite likely to be illness. That doesn't mean it necessarily was, of course! You could try the death certificates for a start to see what's given as cause of death. BW Andy.

Hi Pauline, You might do better to repost this with a more appropriate subject! Regards Jean Morgan Visit my website www.jeanmorgan.org/index.htm Researching Hitchins, Dean, Lees, Cartwright, Breeze, Partridge, Howell, Cox,Smith, Gilbert, Postins, Haynes, McGuire, Cusack and Jones in the Black Country > -----Original Message----- > From: Pauline Matthews [mailto:polly_dalehall@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: 11 October 2003 12:25 > To: ENG-STS-THE-POTTERIES-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Pots] List Admin - Staffordshire List > > > Dear All > Can anyone show any light on my G/Dad's death certificate? > When and where died - Lane Ends, Brown Edge, Norton. > He was only 33 years old and cause of death was a) congestive > heart failure and b) Cardiac Vascular Disease, did he die in > the middle of no-where? It is listed that Robert Brown was > present, of Back Fold Cottages, Norton Green, could he have > been a Doctor? G/Dad's own address is not on the certificate > or any other personal details, wife, parents names. I was > hoping to find out more. Any help much appreciated Regards, Pauline > > > --------------------------------- > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE > Yahoo!Messenger > > > ==== ENG-STS-THE-POTTERIES Mailing List ==== > The List for the Pottery Towns of the Ancient County of Staffordshire > >

Dear All Can anyone show any light on my G/Dad's death certificate? When and where died - Lane Ends, Brown Edge, Norton. He was only 33 years old and cause of death was a) congestive heart failure and b) Cardiac Vascular Disease, did he die in the middle of no-where? It is listed that Robert Brown was present, of Back Fold Cottages, Norton Green, could he have been a Doctor? G/Dad's own address is not on the certificate or any other personal details, wife, parents names. I was hoping to find out more. Any help much appreciated Regards, Pauline --------------------------------- Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!Messenger

I know many subscribers to the Black Country and Potteries lists are also subscribers to the main Staffordshire list too. If you are a Staffordshire subscriber you may have noticed that you haven't received any mail from the list since Thursday. It appears that the server which hosts the list has been taken down for maintenance and there does not appear to be a timescale for when it will be back up and running at present. I sincerely hope it will not be too much longer. All mail is being queued for delivery when things are back to normal. Black Country and Potteries are not affected by this as they are both on a different server (lists5) You can check the status of the server, and other problems at http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/ Thank you for your time and patience with this. Jean Acting list admin BC and Pots List admin STS Visit my website www.jeanmorgan.org/index.htm Researching Hitchins, Dean, Lees, Cartwright, Breeze, Partridge, Howell, Cox,Smith, Gilbert, Postins, Haynes, McGuire, Cusack and Jones in the Black Country

Andy Here a few random references to PANKHURST 1850 Slater's Directory The POTTERIES PANKHURST -William Horatio - Colour ? Manufacturer- Hope Street, Shelton PANKHURST, Adela Christening Gender: Female Christening Date: 22 Jun 1846 Recorded in: Hanley, Staffordshire, England Father: William PANKHURST Mother: Edna Source: FHL Film 1470996 Dates: 1842 - 1848 PANKURST, William Marriage Wife: Edna POINTON Marriage Date: 17 May 1832 Recorded in: Bucknall, Staffordshire, England Source: FHL Film 1278827 Dates: 1822 - 1837 KELSALL, Thomas Ridgway Age: 25 Marriage Wife: Eveline PANKHURST Age: 23 Marriage Date: 6 Sep 1869 Recorded in: Hope, Staffordshire, England Husband's Father: William KELSALL Wife's Father: William Horatio PANKHURST Source: FHL Film 1470999 Dates: 1850 - 1873 PANKHURST, Francis Age: 21 Marriage Wife: Sarah STREET Age: 19 Marriage Date: 27 May 1860 Recorded in: Northwood, Staffordshire, England Husband's Father: William Horatio PANKHURST Wife's Father: John STREET Source: FHL Film 1471149 Dates: 1849 - 1874 PANKHURST, Walter Poynton Age: 21 Marriage Wife: Hannah NASH Age: 18 Marriage Date: 7 Oct 1872 Recorded in: Hope, Staffordshire, England Husband's Father: William Horatio PANKHURST Wife's Father: John NASH Source: FHL Film 1470999 Dates: 1850 - 1873 PANKHURST, Francis Marriage Wife: Jane MILNER Marriage Date: 8 Sep 1886 Recorded in: Wellington, Staffordshire, England Husband previously married Wife previously married Husband's Father: William Horatio PANKHURST Wife's Father: Thomas CATON Source: FHL Film 1471183 Dates: 1854 - 1900 Note: Additional Data in Original Record BRUNT, Uriah Age: 22 Marriage Wife: Teresa PANKHURST Age: 19 Marriage Date: 28 Feb 1859 Recorded in: Northwood, Staffordshire, England Husband's Father: George BRUNT Wife's Father: William Horatio PANKHURST Source: FHL Film 1471149 Dates: 1849 - 1874 White's 1834 Directory PANKHURST Wm H. Travlr Hanley Harrison & Harrod 1861 Directory STOKE on TRENT PANKHURST Adam Game and Fruit Dealer - Church Street HANLEY PANKHURST J W Earthenware Manf. Charles Street Post Office Directory 1868 Hanley PANKHURST & Co Earthenware Manf. Old Hall Street, Hanley From Index to 1851 census - Sorry I don't have the full transcript, but if you ask on list someone else will have it!. HO 107/2003 Folio 602 ( Wolstanton( Burslem) /2004 " 198 ( Hanley) 2005 " 12 & 323 ( Shelton) 2006 " 42 Stoke on Trent!! I hope some of the info. Is of use to you!! Helen New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: Andy Micklethwaite [mailto:andy@ilocker.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 10:23 PM To: ENG-STS-THE-POTTERIES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Pots] PANKHURST Hi Gang! Thurs 10th Oct 2003 is the centenary of the founding of the Women's Political and Social Union by Emmeline PANKHURST. I found out this week that my ggg-mother was Mary PANKHURST. I was wondering about a connection... Emmeline GOULDEN m. Richard Marsden PANKHURST, a lawyer, educated at Manchester GS. (according to a brief biography I found via Google) Richard was born in Stoke in 1834 (altho' on the 1881 census his age is 44? - Emmeline is 22) 'My' Mary was b. 1835 Hanley the dau. of William Horatio and Edna PANKHURST. Wm was born in Clerkenwell, Middlesex and was a manufacturer. I found on the 1881 census that a possible candidate for Richard's father is James W. PANKHURST living at Villa, Barlaston, b. Middlesex, by coincidence(?), also a manufacturer. Are these guys brothers? Has anyone come across any info which might help? In view of the centenary, I thought I'd ask. TIA Andy. ==== ENG-STS-THE-POTTERIES Mailing List ==== The List for the Pottery Towns of the Ancient County of Staffordshire

Dear Listers I was at school (hundreds of years ago!) with a Pankurst who was a member of the Emmeline family. All I remember of her is that she was a staunch Baptist. If this was family tradition, it may be worth checking out any relevant Baptist records. Judith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Verrall" <hverrall@ihug.co.nz> To: <ENG-STS-THE-POTTERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 12:19 AM Subject: RE: [Pots] PANKHURST > Andy > > Here a few random references to PANKHURST > > 1850 Slater's Directory > The POTTERIES > PANKHURST -William Horatio - Colour ? Manufacturer- Hope Street, Shelton > > PANKHURST, Adela Christening > Gender: Female > Christening Date: 22 Jun 1846 Recorded in: Hanley, > Staffordshire, England > Father: William PANKHURST > Mother: Edna > Source: FHL Film 1470996 Dates: 1842 - 1848 > > PANKURST, William Marriage > Wife: Edna POINTON > Marriage Date: 17 May 1832 Recorded in: Bucknall, > Staffordshire, England > Source: FHL Film 1278827 Dates: 1822 - 1837 > > KELSALL, Thomas Ridgway Age: 25 Marriage > Wife: Eveline PANKHURST Age: 23 > Marriage Date: 6 Sep 1869 Recorded in: Hope, > Staffordshire, England > Husband's Father: William KELSALL > Wife's Father: William Horatio PANKHURST > Source: FHL Film 1470999 Dates: 1850 - 1873 > PANKHURST, Francis Age: 21 Marriage > Wife: Sarah STREET Age: 19 > Marriage Date: 27 May 1860 Recorded in: Northwood, > Staffordshire, England > Husband's Father: William Horatio PANKHURST > Wife's Father: John STREET > Source: FHL Film 1471149 Dates: 1849 - 1874 > > PANKHURST, Walter Poynton Age: 21 Marriage > Wife: Hannah NASH Age: 18 > Marriage Date: 7 Oct 1872 Recorded in: Hope, > Staffordshire, England > Husband's Father: William Horatio PANKHURST > Wife's Father: John NASH > Source: FHL Film 1470999 Dates: 1850 - 1873 > > PANKHURST, Francis Marriage > Wife: Jane MILNER > Marriage Date: 8 Sep 1886 Recorded in: Wellington, > Staffordshire, England > Husband previously married > Wife previously married > Husband's Father: William Horatio PANKHURST > Wife's Father: Thomas CATON > Source: FHL Film 1471183 Dates: 1854 - 1900 Note: > Additional Data in Original Record > BRUNT, Uriah Age: 22 Marriage > Wife: Teresa PANKHURST Age: 19 > Marriage Date: 28 Feb 1859 Recorded in: Northwood, > Staffordshire, England > Husband's Father: George BRUNT > Wife's Father: William Horatio PANKHURST > Source: FHL Film 1471149 Dates: 1849 - 1874 > White's 1834 Directory > > PANKHURST Wm H. Travlr Hanley > Harrison & Harrod > 1861 Directory > STOKE on TRENT > PANKHURST Adam Game and Fruit Dealer - Church Street > > HANLEY > PANKHURST J W Earthenware Manf. Charles Street > > Post Office Directory 1868 > Hanley > > PANKHURST & Co Earthenware Manf. Old Hall Street, Hanley > > From Index to 1851 census - > Sorry I don't have the full transcript, but if you ask on list someone > else will have it!. > > HO 107/2003 Folio 602 ( Wolstanton( Burslem) > /2004 " 198 ( Hanley) > 2005 " 12 & 323 ( Shelton) > 2006 " 42 Stoke on Trent!! > > I hope some of the info. Is of use to you!! > > Helen > New Zealand > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Micklethwaite [mailto:andy@ilocker.freeserve.co.uk] > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 10:23 PM > To: ENG-STS-THE-POTTERIES-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Pots] PANKHURST > > Hi Gang! > > Thurs 10th Oct 2003 is the centenary of the founding of the Women's > Political and Social Union by Emmeline PANKHURST. I found out this week > that my ggg-mother was Mary PANKHURST. I was wondering about a > connection... > > Emmeline GOULDEN m. Richard Marsden PANKHURST, a lawyer, educated at > Manchester GS. (according to a brief biography I found via Google) > Richard was born in Stoke in 1834 (altho' on the 1881 census his age is > 44? - Emmeline is 22) > > 'My' Mary was b. 1835 Hanley the dau. of William Horatio and Edna > PANKHURST. Wm was born in Clerkenwell, Middlesex and was a manufacturer. > > I found on the 1881 census that a possible candidate for Richard's > father is James W. PANKHURST living at Villa, Barlaston, b. Middlesex, > by coincidence(?), also a manufacturer. > > Are these guys brothers? Has anyone come across any info which might > help? In view of the centenary, I thought I'd ask. TIA > > Andy. > > > ==== ENG-STS-THE-POTTERIES Mailing List ==== > The List for the Pottery Towns of the Ancient County of Staffordshire > > > > > > ==== ENG-STS-THE-POTTERIES Mailing List ==== > The List for the Pottery Towns of the Ancient County of Staffordshire > >

----- Original Message ----- From: GODFREY BROWNING To: Staffordshire Rootsweb Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 7:08 AM Subject: Deaths of Two William RATCLIFFEs in Stoke March 1891 I was surprised to see that two William Ratcliffes died in Stoke during the quarter up to March 1891. One was aged 42 and the other only 4. I wonder if their deaths were connected and how would I find out ? Would it be covered by a local newspaper ? I am particularly interested because my wife's ggrandfather was William Ratcliffe and all the details I know about him fit with the death of the eldest person and possibly even the youngest person.. Thanks for any help given, Godfrey Browning Gloucester

Thanks John, This fits in with the info on the old maps I was looking at last night. White Cottage where most of my mothers family were born and brought up was demolished when they widened the main road and filled in the canal. Mike Waterlooville

Hi Mike, 'Knappers gate' I think is a row of three old cottages on the main A34 Newcastle Road they are situated opposite Newcatle Lane which takes you up to Penkhull and I believe they come under theTrent Vale postal area although its closer to Newcastle. John in Stoke X-Message: #1 Hi List, Could some kind soul tell me where I could find Knappersgate? It is in the Newcastle U Lyme area and the birthplace of so many of my MOORLEY kith and kin. Mike Waterlooville