Dear Marion I hope you will excuse my sending this to the list, but one of the benefits of a list is that replies may give other listers encouragement, hints about what can be easily found, and if they are inexperienced, methods of attacking family history searches. I don't know if you have already contacted the two Southampton sources I mentioned; if you have, much of what I have to tell you will be old hat; on the other hand, I'll assume you have not, so the sequence of my searches will make more sense. You told me that Elizabeth Emma Webb was married in Southampton on Oct 13, 1878, so I looked for that in the Southampton Card Index. It was not there, so I imagine the marriage was in the local Register Office - the card index has events in all the local churches, but not civil ceremonies. I had confirmed for myself that your family of McCalls were in Church Road St Mary Extra in 1881, so I looked for the baptisms of their two children. Again, nothing, so perhaps David McCall was not an Anglican. The card index does not have any Roman Catholic events, nor many other nonconformist events. Looks depressing so far? But wait! You found from the census returns (1881 and 1891) that EEW was born around 1860. I presume the ordering of the 1862 Birth Certificate was before you had this information. {One thing a new starter quickly learns is that there is reliable information (from original contemporary sources), fairly reliable information (such as indexes compiled later from original sources) and there is family oral history!!} I looked in the card index for EEW's baptism, and found this, which this looks like yours: 1861 January 27th, Elizabeth Emma Webb, at St Augustines church Northam. Parents Edmund Webb, coal dealer, and Sarah. If this is indeed your Elizabeth, the story of her father being called David seems to be in error. Later findings tend to indicate that these (Edmund and Sarah) are the right parents, but to be sure I would advise getting a copy of Elizabeth's marriage certificate, which will give the name and occupation of her father. A look at the 1861 census index of Southampton seemed called for here, and this revealed: RG9/673/72 schedule 91 Edmund WEBB, 32, born Tadley Sarah 30 born Brockenhurst William 24 born Tadley Edmund W 6 born Southampton Henry J 5 " Mary K 3 " Elizabeth 4 months " = This certainly is the family of the Elizabeth found earlier was born into. You will have to satisfy yourself that it is really your family. At present it is not quite certain, but I would put money on the fact that Elizabeth's marriage certificate will confirm it. The William is obviously not one of the children, and is very likely Edmund's younger brother. This also indicates that the family found in 1871 by your friend Jamie is the right one too, and we can reconstruct the family then as: RG10/1198/32 Sched 91 Edmund 42, Sarah 39, James 15, Kate 13, Elizabeth 10, Charles 8, Alfred 6, Walter 4, Hannah 2 The two older children now seem to be using their middle names - Henry J is now James, while Mary K is now Kate. The eldest son Edmund, now aged 16, is not at home. Finally, here is the family in 1881: =================================================== Census Place: Southampton All Sts, Hampshire, England Source: FHL Film 1341297 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 1213 Folio 67 Page 4 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Edmund WEBB M 53 M Tadley, Hampshire, England Rel: Head Occ: Brewers Agent Sarah WEBB M 50 F Brockenhurst, Hampshire, England Rel: Wife Alfred WEBB 15 M Souton, Hampshire, England Rel: Son Walter WEBB 13 M Souton, Hampshire, England Rel: Son Anna WEBB 11 F Souton, Hampshire, England Rel: Daugh Occ: Scholar Kate DUCKWORTH M 23 F Souton, Hampshire, England Rel: Visitor Edith DUCKWORTH 2 F Souton, Hampshire, England Rel: Visitor ======================== Brewers agent seems to connect with what you said earlier about Elizabeth's father running a pub. Souton is obviously an abbreviation for Southampton. The parents do not appear in Southampton in 1891, so may have moved away, or died. They do not appear in the card index under burials, but then most burials took place then in the municipal cemeteries rather than city churchyards which had been closed. (Contact me later if you think they may have died here, as if they did it will be easy to find their burial details). == I looked at some of local Directories to see if any useful information could be obtained: 1855 ( the first in which Edmund appears): Webb, Edmund, grocer, Osbourn Rd, Bevois Hill 1861: Webb, Edmund, pit-wood merchant, Portswood 1871: Webb, Edmund, publican, 'Rose & Crown', Highfield 1883: Webb, Edmund, brewers agent, 23 Strand. == OK, we know Edmund and Sarah came into Southampton from other Hampshire villages - Tadley and Brockenhurst respectively, so when did they come, and when and where did they marry? The card index again, shows this marriage: 1853 June 12, at South Stoneham parish church Edmund Webb, carpenter, of Portswood, full age, bachelor Father Thomas Webb, carpenter and Sarah Humby, full age, spinster, of Portswood Father William Humby, farmer. Witnesses: Mary Bunney, Joseph Harbut === This fits perfectly with the children found in 1861. It also shows that by 1853, both were living in Portswood (just outside what was then Southampton, in the parish of South Stoneham). So where were they in 1851? A look at the index for Tadley shows: 1684/309 Thomas Webb 56, Mary 53 (born Hannington), William 12, Ann 12. Quite likely your family, as we know Edmund's father was Thomas, and he probably had a brother William. The age discrepancy with William is probably not significant. Edmund had already left home, but a look at the 1851 Southampton index does not show him. I didn't have time to look in South Stoneham, where he most likely was. Got to leave something for next time (or for your homework!) Finally, Brockenhurst in 1851 had: 1666/288 William 55 (born Lyndhurst), Elizabeth 48 (born Lyndhurst), James 23, Sarah 20, Edward 14, John 10 Looks good again. All this was done in just over an hour at Southampton civic centre - it's taken almost as long to type this out! There are some obvious steps to take when you have absorbed this. The McCall Webb marriage cert is the most urgent as all the rest is built on this rock, the assumption that it will show Elizabeth's father was called Edmund. Then copies of the actual census pages from all those censuses from 1851 to 1881 - we don't want to risk transcribers errors leading us astray do we? Then, if you have the money, copies of Elizabeth's birth cert, and the marriage cert for Webb and Humby 1853. For the latter though, I recommend getting a photocopy of the South Stoneham church marriage register page, as it will be cheaper, and will have their actual signatures. If you feel like having someone to talk through your future findings with, I'll be here. Cheers and good hunting, Dave Jacobs ========== At 00:25 02/09/2004, you wrote: >Dear Dave: > >Thanks for all the suggestions. > >Will Southampton archives just look things up for one? That's great. > > > >>My husband's gggrandmother was Elizabeth Emma Webb, born about 1860 in, > >> we>>believe, Southampton. > > == > > Is this evidence from a census, maybe? I couldn't find her either as Webb > > or McCall in the 1881 census. > > Or is her name from one of her children's birth certificates perhaps, and > > her age from her marriage certificate? > >The name is from family members, but I have researched more. They are at >St Mary Extra in the 1881 census, from the LDS, giving Southampton as >place of birth for Elizabeth. The names and ages of the parents are >correct, and the order of the first two children and their ages. One is >only 2 days old! (Their first child is my husband's grandfather.) > >She died about 1937 in Clydebank, and is buried at Dalnottar Cemetery in >Clydebank. > >I ordered and paid for the birth certificate. From the birth index fiche, >as family were sure she was born in 1862. (There was a delay, and the >certificate took four months to come.) > > >>"Our" Elizabeth Emma's parents are thought to be David & Sarah Webb. > > == > > What is the source for this, seeing the family in a census return? Have > > you looked at the 1871 Southampton Census? If not, why not ask the > > Southampton Local Studies Library ( E-mail: > > <mailto:local.studies@southampton.gov.uk>local.studies@southampton.gov.uk > > ) > > if they would look in their index? > >I will certainly try this. The information I had for this is from family >members. > >I have been sent all the Webbs from the 1871 census by a kind person and >have just gone through it all. > > > ==== > >>She got pregnant by and then married David McCall. > > == > > Married when and where? Does their marriage certificate say her father was > > David Webb? What occupation? I see there is a widow Sarah Webb, 61, in > > Southampton in 1881. > >According to family, they were married on Oct 13, 1878 in Southampton. I >have not seen the certificate. David McCall's occupation was Ship's rigger >at that time. > > > > ==== > >>I have the McCalls on the 1881 and 1891 censuses. In 1881 they were in St > >>Mary Extra. > > == > > Which McCalls? I couldn't find any there in 1881, maybe their name has > > been transcribed wrongly? > >Please see above. In the LDS (which is no guarantee, of course), their >name is shown as MC CALL. They have a boarder by the last name of >McMastur. Piece 1217/79 Page 34. > >I have only been doing this since about April this year - and you can >spend a small fortune at times. Eventually, I hope to get documentation >for everything. In the meantime, I do what I can to piece things together. > >All suggestions gratefully received. > >Thanks, Marion > >p.s. much of MY family is from Northern Ireland or Dorset. The Dorset list >is so helpful, but trying to get information out of Ireland is nigh >impossible! > > > >---------------------------- >Powered by Execulink Webmail >http://www.execulink.com/

Dear Dave: WOW - there is no other term to use! Thank you very much for all this work. I had decided that the marriage cert was crucial, so I wrote yesterday to the family member who had given me the info to see if she has it. If not, I will order it immed. I am just home on lunch, but I will go through all this tonight, but it certainly all appears to hang together so far. Thank you again. I will post again when I have it all confirmed! (Or if I get stuck!) Marion PS I wish I lived over there, you can accomplish so much in a shorter period. > Dear Marion > > I hope you will excuse my sending this to the list, but one of the > benefits > of a list is that replies may give other listers encouragement, hints > about > what can be easily found, and if they are inexperienced, methods of > attacking family history searches. > ---------------------------- Powered by Execulink Webmail http://www.execulink.com/