Hello, Dave and listers, In Rosaleen Wilkinson's excellent book "Millbrook - The Hidden Past" she indicates that in the late 1700s, there was a proposal to re-build St Nicholas Church, as being on the then shoreline and due to the high water-table, it was very damp and prone to flooding, and to allow a re-siting of the church "monuments and graves were to be dismantled carefully" (p17)- many years later, it seems the church was substantially re-built with only the tower of the original church remaining. She doesn't say if the plan with regard to the monuments and graves was carried out, but if not, it may well be that many were lost at that time. It seems that St Nicholas Church was closed in 1889 as the damp had caused further decay, re-opened in 1911 after major repairs, and finally closed in 1920; demolition began in 1939 - "in less than three weeks the graveyard had been cleared and burials within the church exhumed. The bodies were re-buried [the book doesn't make clear where]. Sea sand and mud filled the graves and many bodies crumbled into dust" (p18) - not sure if this means the re-buried ones or the ones left in the churchyard, or both! She also says that Holy Trinity's churchyard had been used since 1879, and that "some of the old gravestones were brought from St Nicholas' and put in the churchyard at Holy Trinity. but there are no actual graves underneath them" (p 21). In those circumstances, I wonder if the Southampton Bereavement Services would have a record of the moved gravestones? I should imagine they would only have records of actual interments there? Incidentally, at least three of my Bessant ancestors would have been buried at St Nicholas, and another one may have been: 3 x great-grandfather John (1823), his wife Fanny (nee Heath) in 1860, possibly their daughter-in-law (and my 2 x great-grandmother) Sarah Ann (nee Humber/Humby) in 1875 (Sarah Ann's burial is recorded in the Freemantle register, so I'm not entirely sure where the actual burial would have been, although husband Stephen was buried at the Hill Lane cemetery) and Sarah Ann and Stephen's son John (brother of my great-grandfather Henry) in 1872. They were ag labs, so may not have had gravestones to start with - I'll have to make do with the parish register entries! Best wishes, Sara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Jacobs" <Dave@Jacobs.net> To: <ENG-SOUTHAMPTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: Re: Millbrook Cemetery > Hi Dorothy and all > > Wandering around cemeteries hoping to stumble across the remains of your > ancestors is not the recommended way to do your family history, I fear. > What you should really do is contact Southampton Bereavement Services, and > get the exact cemetery and plot reference from them. > Then, armed with a machete, you go into the cemetery and try to find the grave. > > By the way, I have a feeling that the earlier Millbrook cemetery that was > mentioned as now being completely built over, was actually the graveyard of > the earlier Millbrook parish church of St Nicholas, also long since > demolished. The present parish church, Holy Trinity Millbrook, has its own > graveyard, and the council cemetery called Millbrook Cemetery created in > 1909 is an extension behind the churchyard. > > Cheers, Dave Jacobs > =============== > > At 10:39 29/05/2004, Dorothy Morrissey wrote: > >Hi Dave > > > >If, while avoiding drunks and rats in Millbrook > >Cemetery, you happen to stumble on any Gilleys or > >Lanhams or Shorts, please let me know! Watch your > >footing! > > > >Cheers > > > >Dorothy > > > >Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. > >http://au.movies.yahoo.com > > ______________________________

Hi Sara and all Good story, thanks for this. You asked: << In those circumstances, I wonder if the Southampton Bereavement Services would have a record of the moved gravestones? I should imagine they would only have records of actual interments there? >> It is worth pointing out the salient legal situation here! What we have most recently been talking about are the CHURCHYARDS belonging to St Nicholas and Holy Trinity churches in Millbrook. These, and all other churchyards associated with churches, are nothing to do with Southampton Council. All churchyards and their registers are owned and managed by ecclesiastical authorities. They alone are responsible for recording where particular graves and memorials are, and generally speaking they do a very poor job. The local sexton will hopefully know his graveyard, but sextons' records from the past are few and far between. CEMETERIES on the other hand are the property and responsibility of Local Authorities, which are secular bodies. By various Acts of Parliament the local authority managing a cemetery has to keep a plan of the cemetery, showing where all the graves are, and are obliged to reveal this information to any interested party. This is what Southampton Bereavement Services do for all Southampton Cemeteries. They have no information about any churchyards though; for these you have to go to Southampton Archives Dept., or Hampshire Record Office, which is also the Diocese of Winchester Record Office. Southampton Cemeteries are: 1846 Common/Old Cemetery/Hill Lane 1879 St Mary Extra (at Woolston) 1905 South Stoneham 1909 Millbrook 1913 Hollybrook 1932 Southampton Crematorium, originally at South Stoneham, now in Basset Green Road As most local churchyards closed during the late 19th C, most people who died in Southampton would have ended in one of these places. Cheers, Dave Jacobs =============== At 00:11 02/06/2004, sbolt wrote: >Hello, Dave and listers, > >In Rosaleen Wilkinson's excellent book "Millbrook - The Hidden Past" she >indicates that in the late 1700s, there was a proposal to re-build St >Nicholas Church, as being on the then shoreline and due to the high >water-table, it was very damp and prone to flooding, and to allow a >re-siting of the church "monuments and graves were to be dismantled >carefully" (p17)- many years later, it seems the church was substantially >re-built with only the tower of the original church remaining. She doesn't >say if the plan with regard to the monuments and graves was carried out, but >if not, it may well be that many were lost at that time. > >It seems that St Nicholas Church was closed in 1889 as the damp had caused >further decay, re-opened in 1911 after major repairs, and finally closed in >1920; demolition began in 1939 - "in less than three weeks the graveyard had >been cleared and burials within the church exhumed. The bodies were >re-buried [the book doesn't make clear where]. Sea sand and mud filled the >graves and many bodies crumbled into dust" (p18) - not sure if this means >the re-buried ones or the ones left in the churchyard, or both! > >She also says that Holy Trinity's churchyard had been used since 1879, and >that "some of the old gravestones were brought from St Nicholas' and put in >the churchyard at Holy Trinity. but there are no actual graves underneath >them" (p 21). In those circumstances, I wonder if the Southampton >Bereavement Services would have a record of the moved gravestones? I should >imagine they would only have records of actual interments there? > >Incidentally, at least three of my Bessant ancestors would have been buried >at St Nicholas, and another one may have been: >3 x great-grandfather John (1823), his wife Fanny (nee Heath) in 1860, >possibly their daughter-in-law (and my 2 x great-grandmother) Sarah Ann (nee >Humber/Humby) in 1875 (Sarah Ann's burial is recorded in the Freemantle >register, so I'm not entirely sure where the actual burial would have been, >although husband Stephen was buried at the Hill Lane cemetery) and Sarah Ann >and Stephen's son John (brother of my great-grandfather Henry) in 1872. >They were ag labs, so may not have had gravestones to start with - I'll have >to make do with the parish register entries! > >Best wishes, > >Sara >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dave Jacobs" <Dave@Jacobs.net> >To: <ENG-SOUTHAMPTON-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 3:39 PM >Subject: Re: Millbrook Cemetery > > > > Hi Dorothy and all > > > > Wandering around cemeteries hoping to stumble across the remains of your > > ancestors is not the recommended way to do your family history, I fear. > > What you should really do is contact Southampton Bereavement Services, and > > get the exact cemetery and plot reference from them. > > Then, armed with a machete, you go into the cemetery and try to find the >grave. > > > > By the way, I have a feeling that the earlier Millbrook cemetery that was > > mentioned as now being completely built over, was actually the graveyard >of > > the earlier Millbrook parish church of St Nicholas, also long since > > demolished. The present parish church, Holy Trinity Millbrook, has its >own > > graveyard, and the council cemetery called Millbrook Cemetery created in > > 1909 is an extension behind the churchyard. > > > > Cheers, Dave Jacobs > > =============== > > > > At 10:39 29/05/2004, Dorothy Morrissey wrote: > > >Hi Dave > > > > > >If, while avoiding drunks and rats in Millbrook > > >Cemetery, you happen to stumble on any Gilleys or > > >Lanhams or Shorts, please let me know! Watch your > > >footing! > > > > > >Cheers > > > > > >Dorothy > > > > > >Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. > > >http://au.movies.yahoo.com > > > > ______________________________ > > > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237