for further (off topic) clarity; natural gas is not poisonous; both will explode hence the added smell. Philip Maddocks ----- Original Message ----- From: "James ~Pitman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-SOM] Mysterious Double Death - Crewkerne/Misterton (BURT) > Just to answer Bevs points > > <snip> > Cause of death was "Asphyxia by Carbon Monoxide through inhalation of coal > gas; Misadventure." <snip> > > Carbon Monoxide (chemical symbol CO) is produced when gas is burned in a > atamosphere which is low in oxygen. example being blocking up air vents to > stop draughts of cold air. Gas burnt in an area with plenty of air results > in CO2 or carbon dioxide. > If the chimney was swept regularly the gas excapes to the open air, but if > elderly people fail to have this done and the flue is blocked for any > reason > the CO seeps back into the room and as there is no smell it can kill you > > > <snip> > This was midwinter, and she was old. But don't I remember reading that all > these deaths from coal gas led to a reform that insisted that the gas was > given a smell?? Perhaps someone will know when that happened. > <snip> > > Coal gas produced by local town gas companies had a very distinctive > small, > Natural gas is odourless and caused deaths because you could not smell it > which is why a smell is added for our safety > > James > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just to answer Bevs points <snip> Cause of death was "Asphyxia by Carbon Monoxide through inhalation of coal gas; Misadventure." <snip> Carbon Monoxide (chemical symbol CO) is produced when gas is burned in a atamosphere which is low in oxygen. example being blocking up air vents to stop draughts of cold air. Gas burnt in an area with plenty of air results in CO2 or carbon dioxide. If the chimney was swept regularly the gas excapes to the open air, but if elderly people fail to have this done and the flue is blocked for any reason the CO seeps back into the room and as there is no smell it can kill you <snip> This was midwinter, and she was old. But don't I remember reading that all these deaths from coal gas led to a reform that insisted that the gas was given a smell?? Perhaps someone will know when that happened. <snip> Coal gas produced by local town gas companies had a very distinctive small, Natural gas is odourless and caused deaths because you could not smell it which is why a smell is added for our safety James

Hi Peter, The niece, or her family, because of the link to coal gas, may have been under the misapprehension that suicide was involved hence the story of a house fire. Coal gas and suicide are frequently linked both in fact and fiction. However in this case, as I understand all your replies, there is no mention of suicide in the official reports as there would certainly have been if it were the case. Have you tried local newspaper records of the time? They would almost certainly report fires involving deaths. Harry -----Original Message----- From: Peter Collins Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 1:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-SOM] Mysterious Double Death - Crewkerne/Misterton (BURT) Hi Steve, Many thanks for the info, It would certainly strengthen the case for a Crewkerne death and burial. Just makes one wonder why the neice would insist that this couple died in a house fire in Misterton, but at least I now have a starting point, Thanks again, Peter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "SteveDee" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-SOM] Mysterious Double Death - Crewkerne/Misterton (BURT) > Hi Peter, > Misterton was transfered to Beaminster Registration District > on the 1/6/1895, as both Walter and Violet were both Registered in the > Chard > Registration District, I would think that Crewkerne was the most likely > place of Death. > > Best Wishes > Steve Dinham ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Peter, Charani has already given you some very good steers regarding the deaths in 1951 of Walter BURT & his wife Violet. I would just add that when I was investigating the sudden death of one of my PARSONS ancestors in the Crewkerne area in 1944 the inquest was covered in Pulman’s Weekly News, and copies of that paper were certainly held at the Somerset Studies library, which is based at the Somerset Heritage centre. Duncan, Dundee

Hi Charani, Many thanks for your most comprehensive reply, it's ginen me much work and research to start with. Again, many thanks. Peter

Peter Collins wrote: > I am, in conjunction with a cousin, researching our family tree. > She has come across a mystery on her mothers side and has asked me > to take a look at it for fresh ideas. My cousin has already > attempted to find information from the records office, who referred > her to the Coroner who immediately referred her back to the > records office, frustating, I should say! Coroner's records were theirs to destroy after 15 years and I believe this is still the case. The exception being cases of note which are closed for 75 years. Since the 1920s more Somerset coroner's records have been preserved and they would be in the Heritage Centre now - if they still exist. Given Misterton's proximity to Dorset, it might be worth checking the Dorset Heritage Centre in Dorchester (formerly Dorset Record Office). I don't know the papers for Dorset so have a look at The British Library site (www.bl.uk/) then follow the link to the Newspaper catalogue. That will tell you what papers were around then, if they are still around, who they've been taken over by, etc. > Because of the nature of the deaths we are well aware that an > inquest would have taken place and a cause of death has been > recorded as on the death certificate as: "Influenza Pneumonial > contributary Aortic Cyanosis excellerated by Carbon Monoxide > Poisoning from inhalation of coal gas". The location for the death > is recorded as Crewkerne, Somerset. Misterton addresses are often given as Misterton, Crewkerne. It sounds as though the couple's chimney was blocked or partially blocked allowing carbon monoxide to build up in their home. > However, that is only the official version. A neice of the dead > couple is adamant that the couple died in Misterton in a house fire > in 1951 and suggests that there maybe more to this story than the > Official bodies are saying. Maybe, maybe not. Obviously you need to check this out but I think it could be a case of having been told (or overhearing) it was caused by the fire (ie the normal household fire) and assuming it was a fire (ie the whole house went up). The niece can't have been very old at the time. The death certificate would have added the word "Fire" if it was a house fire and that was the reason for the cause of death. There would be no percentage in the deaths of an older couple being "covered up". > The information I have to date to which I can share is as follows: > > Walter BURT (63yrs) and hs wife Violet (61yrs) were both found dead > in ther home (Crewkerne or Misterton?) having passed away sometime > between 31 Jan 1951 and 1 Feb 1951. The reference for the two deaths is Walter, age 63, Chard 7c 195 and Violet E, age 61, Chard 7c 194. Both March qtr of 1951. The death cert for one or other will give you the actual address where they lived as well as the place of death which could have been Chard or Crewkerne Hospital, both of which are now cottage hospitals. Chard does have an A+E dept which Crewkerne does not and I'm not sure if it ever did. Bear in mind that deaths are registered where the death took place and not necessarily where the deceased lived. > Could anyone tell us where we need to be looking for any > information regarding this matter, ie, which newspapers would cover > these areas, Pulman's Weekly covered that area. You could try the Western Gazette and the Chard & Ilminster News as well. If it was a fire, then there would very likely be a report. If it was what would be deemed "natural causes", then there might be a paragraph. > Which churches should we be looking at to find possible records of > burial All the parish registers are at the Heritage Centre in Taunton. The churches could have been St Bartholomew's in Crewkerne for whom there is an OPC. Alternatively it might have been St Leonard's in Misterton There's a cemetery/graveyard there near the crossroads in Misterton but 1951 they would most likely have been buried in Townsend Cemetery in Crewkerne. The cemetery supervisor lives in the lodge there and has the burial records for the cemetery which are not the same at those for either of the churches. It includes non conformist burials as well as those who chose not to have a service at all. > and lastly where would we have to look to find a copy of the > Coroners reports, other that the two places that seem to like > sending one on a wild goose chase! If the reports exist, and it sounds as though they don't, they'd most likely be in the Heritage Centre. The papers remain your best bet. The Local Studies library is also in the Heritage Centre. I know they have the Bridgwater papers but I'm not sure what others they have. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

Hi Steve, Many thanks for the info, It would certainly strengthen the case for a Crewkerne death and burial. Just makes one wonder why the neice would insist that this couple died in a house fire in Misterton, but at least I now have a starting point, Thanks again, Peter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "SteveDee" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-SOM] Mysterious Double Death - Crewkerne/Misterton (BURT) > Hi Peter, > Misterton was transfered to Beaminster Registration District > on the 1/6/1895, as both Walter and Violet were both Registered in the > Chard > Registration District, I would think that Crewkerne was the most likely > place of Death. > > Best Wishes > Steve Dinham

Need help with The Marsh Family. I have definite proof back to Edward Marsh (1805?) and Charlotte Chamberlain(1816) married in Gastonbury, 1838 parents of Richard Chamberlain Marsh (1843) Looking for details of Edward's (1805) parents and/or his ancestors. Any help would be deeply appreciated.

Hi Peter, Misterton was transfered to Beaminster Registration District on the 1/6/1895, as both Walter and Violet were both Registered in the Chard Registration District, I would think that Crewkerne was the most likely place of Death. Best Wishes Steve Dinham

Hi Group. Can anyone here help me solve a 60 yr old mystery of a double death in either Crewkerne or Misterton? I am, in conjunction with a cousin, researching our family tree. She has come across a mystery on her mothers side and has asked me to take a look at it for fresh ideas. My cousin has already attempted to find information from the records office, who referred her to the Coroner who immediately referred her back to the records office, frustating, I should say! Because of the nature of the deaths we are well aware that an inquest would have taken place and a cause of death has been recorded as on the death certificate as: "Influenza Pneumonial contributary Aortic Cyanosis excellerated by Carbon Monoxide Poisoning from inhalation of coal gas". The location for the death is recorded as Crewkerne, Somerset. However, that is only the official version. A neice of the dead couple is adamant that the couple died in Misterton in a house fire in 1951and suggests that there maybe more to this story than the Official bodies are saying. The information I have to date to which I can share is as follows: Walter BURT (63yrs) and hs wife Violet (61yrs) were both found dead in ther home (Crewkerne or Misterton?) having passed away sometime between 31 Jan 1951 and 1 Feb 1951. Could anyone tell us where we need to be looking for any information regarding this matter, ie, which newspapers would cover these areas, Which churches should we be looking at to find possible records of burial and lastly where would we have to look to find a copy of the Coroners reports, other that the two places that seem to like sending one on a wild goose chase! In reality, ANY help woud be gratefully received. Thank you. Peter

If anyone is aware of a copy of the inscriptions on the two vaults (of a BAKER family) to the right hand side as you approach the front of the St Martin's Church at Kingsbury Episcopi, I would be very grateful if you will give me instructions on how to contact that source, or purchase the information, if it is published. When I was able to visit the church from Australia some time ago, the effects of weathering, the poor weather conditions on the day, and my lack of expertise in reading such inscriptions, combined to enable me to get only very limited information, which I am having great difficulty in matching with the parish records. Now I am more confused than ever. A partial transcription was published a while ago (on this list?), but more seemed to be omitted than was published, particularly in relation to the vault further from the church, and there is some doubt about some of the data ( was the 4 actually a 9 for example?). I live in hope that someone copied down the details some time ago, or with more expertise than I have, and has access to a more complete record. Can any help please. Robert SLATER South Australia

I feel I ought to bring to attention that the new LDS search site has the Walton records transcribed as Walcot. I have the Walton parish record fich and have checked them. I have brought this error to the attention of LDS who say it will take at least a year to correct their , not the transcriber, mistake. What efficiency!!!!!! Sheila

Just a few further details. William Chamberlain Marsh and Sarah Searles were married in Cardiff in the June Quarter 1897 Ref 11a 421. You could obtain a marriage certificate. In 1901, they were living at 33 Ethel St, Canton, Cardiff. William Marsh 32 General Labourer Born Glastonbury, Somerset Sarah 24 Born Cardiff Dorothy 1 Born Cardiff Dorothy Blanche was born in the June Quarter 1990 Ref 11a 396 Hope this helps Allan

Thank you so much! It certainly does! -------------------------------------------------- From: "Allan Norman" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 7:08 AM To: "Somerset Enquiries" <[email protected]> Subject: [ENG-SOM] The Marsh Family > Just a few further details. > William Chamberlain Marsh and Sarah Searles were married in Cardiff in the > June Quarter 1897 Ref 11a 421. You could obtain a marriage certificate. > > In 1901, they were living at 33 Ethel St, Canton, Cardiff. > William Marsh 32 General Labourer Born Glastonbury, Somerset > Sarah 24 Born Cardiff > Dorothy 1 Born Cardiff > > Dorothy Blanche was born in the June Quarter 1990 Ref 11a 396 > > Hope this helps > Allan > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1321 / Virus Database: 1509/3647 - Release Date: 05/19/11 >

On Wed, 18 May 2011 04:01:26 +0100, Bob Aubie <[email protected]> wrote: > Researching the Marsh Family of Ontario, Canada. William Marsh was > born in Somerset (1870) I believe and married a Sarah Searle (1876) from > Cardiff, Wales about 1898 or 1899. They are listed as such in the 1911 > Ontario Census. They came to Canada in 1906 and settled in Toronto. I > am unable to locate, with certainty, his parents. He is referred to as > William Chamberlain Marsh by his descendants In my previous message I noted that in 1881 the parents of 13-year-old William Marsh were Richard Marsh, aged 37, and Eliza Marsh, aged 33, and that both William and bis father were born in Glastonbury, Somerset. Richard Marsh is listed as an 8-year-old in Gordon Beavington's transcription of the 1851 Glastonbury census. He was in the household of his parents Edward, 46, a sawyer and Charlotte, 35.(To recap, from FreeReg Richard Chamberlain Marsh, son of Edward and Charlotte, was baptized on 17th September 1843 at St. John the Baptist, Glastonbury.) The marriage of bachelor, Edward Marsh, a sawyer, and spinster, Charlotte Chamberlain, can be found on FreeReg. www.freereg.org.uk They were married on 19th. July 1838 at St. John the Baptist, Glastonbury. Abode for both bride and groom was Hill Head. Edward's father was also called Edward and his occupation was a farmer, while Charlotte's father was Richard Chamberlain who was a sawyer. -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

William & Sarah married 1897 in Cardiff area. The marriage record is Transcribed as William Chamberlain (so the descendats were right about that) Marsh and Sarah Searles. William Chamberlain Marsh's birth is registered Q2 1868 Wells (Somerset) If you go to this site https://www.familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api.familysearch.org/records/pal:/MM9.1.r/971K-GQH/p1 you will see a christening 16 May 1847 - maybe a relative I think it might be him in 1881 in Llandaff, Glamorgan, Wales - that would give you his parents name So it seems he's definitely from Somerset. ======================================== Message Received: May 18 2011, 04:04 AM From: "Bob Aubie" To: [email protected] Cc: Subject: [ENG-SOM] The Marsh Family Hello there: Many thanks for taking the time to reply. I have hit a brick wall and do not know if my William Marsh comes from Somerset or Lancashire. Sure hope you can help. We are from North Bay, Ontario - 350 kms north of Toronto. The Marshes ended up as railway employees here in Ontario Researching the Marsh Family of Ontario, Canada. William Marsh was born in Somerset (1870) I believe and married a Sarah Searle (1876) from Cardiff, Wales about 1898 or 1899. They are listed as such in the 1911 Ontario Census. They came to Canada in 1906 and settled in Toronto. I am unable to locate, with certainty, his parents. He is referred to as William Chamberlain Marsh by his descendants - Blanche (1900) Wales, William (1902) Wales, Richard (1910) Wales and Ronald (1913 ) Canada. Ronald's son is William James Marsh born 1945. It is his interest which sparks this inquiry. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Wed, 18 May 2011 04:01:26 +0100, Bob Aubie <[email protected]> wrote: > Researching the Marsh Family of Ontario, Canada. William Marsh was > born in Somerset (1870) I believe and married a Sarah Searle (1876) from > Cardiff, Wales about 1898 or 1899. They are listed as such in the 1911 > Ontario Census. They came to Canada in 1906 and settled in Toronto. I > am unable to locate, with certainty, his parents. He is referred to as > William Chamberlain Marsh by his descendants On Wed, 18 May 2011 09:21:19 +0100, Sheila Beer <[email protected]> wrote: > I think it might be him in 1881 in Llandaff, Glamorgan, Wales - that > would give you his parents name Following Sheila's hint about the Marsh family being in Llandaff at the time of the 1881 census, I see that the parents of 13-year-old William Marsh were Richard Marsh, aged 37, and Eliza Marsh, aged 33. Both William and bis father were born in Glastonbury, Somerset. The registration district for Glastonbury was Wells. (The birth of William Chamberlain Marsh was registered at Wells in the June quarter of 1868.) A likely baptism for the father could be that of Richard Chamberlain Marsh, son of Edward and Charlotte, who was baptized on 17th September 1843 at St. John the Baptist, Glastonbury. Abode was North Load Street and father's occupation was labourer. Source FreeReg www.freereg.org.uk The marriage of Richard Marsh was registered in Wells in the March quarter of 1867. A possible bride was Eliza Hembery. Source FreeBMD www.freebmd.org.uk It looks like the possible Chamberlain/Marsh marriage I gave in my previous message was not the one for William's parents. -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

On Wed, 18 May 2011 04:01:26 +0100, Bob Aubie <[email protected]> wrote: > Researching the Marsh Family of Ontario, Canada. William Marsh was > born in Somerset (1870) I believe and married a Sarah Searle (1876) from > Cardiff, Wales about 1898 or 1899. They are listed as such in the 1911 > Ontario Census. They came to Canada in 1906 and settled in Toronto. I > am unable to locate, with certainty, his parents. He is referred to as > William Chamberlain Marsh by his descendants A possible birth registration could be that of William Chamberlain Marsh whose birth was registered at Wells in the June quarter of 1868. Source FreeBMD www.freebmd.org.uk If you obtain his birth certificate you should get information about his parents or at least information on his mother, if he was born before his parents married. I mention the latter because there is a registration for the marriage of Joseph Francis Chamberlain in Wells in the March quarter of 1869 whose possible bride could have been Mary Jane Marsh. Source FreeBMD www.freebmd.org.uk -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Hello there: Many thanks for taking the time to reply. I have hit a brick wall and do not know if my William Marsh comes from Somerset or Lancashire. Sure hope you can help. We are from North Bay, Ontario - 350 kms north of Toronto. The Marshes ended up as railway employees here in Ontario Researching the Marsh Family of Ontario, Canada. William Marsh was born in Somerset (1870) I believe and married a Sarah Searle (1876) from Cardiff, Wales about 1898 or 1899. They are listed as such in the 1911 Ontario Census. They came to Canada in 1906 and settled in Toronto. I am unable to locate, with certainty, his parents. He is referred to as William Chamberlain Marsh by his descendants - Blanche (1900) Wales, William (1902) Wales, Richard (1910) Wales and Ronald (1913 ) Canada. Ronald's son is William James Marsh born 1945. It is his interest which sparks this inquiry.

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