Although a lateral issue, wedding certificates would resolve what appears to be a dilemma for you. Actually, I think the other gentleman's suggestion about Army's requirement of approval to marry may the reason behind the two marriages, if the cited FreeBMD online information is accurate. Or, possibly the couple only wanted to renew their wedding vows. By the way, are both the 'Go' and "Goff" pronunciations typically used for GOUGH surname? Regards, Steade

Is it likely that someone who was heavily pregnant would have gone from Bruton in Somerset to Guildford to get married a second time and then return to Bruton to deliver? I think you can ignore the second marriage. Are the two children born in Surrey part of your Bruton family? Are the rest of the family on FreeBMD. How trustworthy is FreeBMD? Harry -----Original Message----- From: Peter Ferreira Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 8:20 AM To: Gough List ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-SOM] [GOUGH] Arthur William GOUGH married Emily Jane CHANTtwice!!! The GOUGH family is aware of the Bruton marriage only. I spotted the second one, in FreeBMD. Perhaps, it would be best to detail all that I know of the early years of this family. Arthur William GOUGH was born in 1880 in East Knoyle, Wilts, birth registered in Mere district in Q4 of 1880. Arthur joined the Army Service Corp. in 1896 and served there for at least 20 years. I cannot find him in the 1901 or 1911 censuses for England. Arthur married Emily Jane CHANT - there are two marriages registered in FreeBMD, firstly in Bruton, Somerset, in Wincanton distict in Q4 of 1905 and secondly, in Guildford in Q3 of 1906. Arthur and Emily Jane had three sons, all now dead: 1. Leslie Cyril Gough, born in Bruton on January 5th., 1907. Married with living issue. 2. Arthur Lionel Gough, born in Farnham, Surrey, on January 4th., 1911. Married with living issue. 3. Roy Harold Gough, born in Chertsey, Surrey, on February 5th., 1920. Married with no known issue. If the second marriage was of my Arthur and my Emily, then young Leslie would have been well on his way, by Q3 of 1906. These Goughs are distant laterals and I would not be buying confirming certificates. I have thought about a big Army or other reception / celebration in 1906, but the second registration of the marriage really puzzles me. Has this occurred to any body else? Peter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "rprier" <[email protected]> To: "Peter Ferreira" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [GOUGH] Arthur William GOUGH married Emily Jane CHANT twice!!! > Just a thought-- could the first have been by a judge & the second by a > preacher or priest? If he was in the army maybe they didn't want or have > time for a big marriage for the first but did the next year? <snip> ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Whilst it is surprising when it happens to you, and causes a bit of a puzzle, I have a relative who led me a long and merry dance; it is in fact quite common. Tom Wood wrote a piece about it: "Permission to marry, sir?" in Family Tree Magazine (October 2005, and before). Men in the ranks and officers had to have permission to marry, and that was often difficult to obtain. Army personnel who wanted their wives to be "taken on strength" for Army accommodation and rations needed their commanding officer's permission to marry, and sometimes that was difficult to obtain. In my case, and for at least one other case (mentioned in the above article) in the Royal Artillery permission was refused because the officer concerned did not qualify for a "marriage allowance" until his 30th birthday. Also the army restricted the number of men who were permitted to marry. It was usual for maximum of only 6 men per company of 100 to be allowed to marry and have families "on strength". The fact that you were already legitimately married was irrelevant. According to the regulations a serving man had to ask permission to marry, get that request agreed and then go through a ceremony before his wife could be taken "on strength". Alan Ramsey Skellcy's book The Victorian Army at Home: The recruitment and Terms and conditions of the British Regular 1859·1899 McGill-Queen's University Press, 1977; gives a very good account of the lot of an army family, and sometimes it was a pretty grim existence by today's standards. The question that I am intrigued by, and haven't yet had a sufficient answer to, is what is/are the legal status of the the marriage(s)? Presumably the participants in the second ceremony had to lie about their marital status etc, and does that make the second marriage illegal? (I don't think it qualifies as bigamy, or does it?). If the second marriage IS legal, then what is the status of the first one? Is that just "void" because of the second one? Was the second marriage an illegal act, could people have been prosecuted for it? Or was it just a ceremony that all parties (including the clergy) knew to be a sham, and just going through the motions and blind eyes abounded? On 2 September 2011 01:55, Peter Ferreira <[email protected]> wrote: > What should I make of the FreeBMD records for the marriages of my cousin, > Arthur William GOUGH? > > In FreeBMD, I pick out two marriages between Arthur William GOUGH and Emily > Jane CHANT, in two different locations and in two different years:  firstly, > in Bruton, Somerset, in Wincanton distict in Q4 of 1905, and secondly, in > Guildford, in Q3 of 1906. In those years, as best I can determine, Arthur > was in the Army Service Corp.. > > Any helpful suggestions? > > > Peter Ferreira > Toronto, Canada. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Many thanks, Martin. It is possible that Army protocols required special arrangements, which the Registrar General for births, deaths and marriages would not have approved. Thank you, Harry. Yes, the three Gough sons all appear in FreeBMD. However, I originally received their details, and birth dates, from Gough family history sources. All three are genuine. FreeBMD, now a Rootsweb service, is usually very reliable, with effective corrective mechanisms in place. Best wishes. Peter Harry Tadd wrote: > Is it likely that someone who was heavily pregnant would have gone from > Bruton in Somerset to Guildford to get married a second time and then > return to Bruton to deliver? > I think you can ignore the second marriage. > Are the two children born in Surrey part of your Bruton family? Are the > rest of the family on FreeBMD. How trustworthy is FreeBMD? > Harry <snip>

The GOUGH family is aware of the Bruton marriage only. I spotted the second one, in FreeBMD. Perhaps, it would be best to detail all that I know of the early years of this family. Arthur William GOUGH was born in 1880 in East Knoyle, Wilts, birth registered in Mere district in Q4 of 1880. Arthur joined the Army Service Corp. in 1896 and served there for at least 20 years. I cannot find him in the 1901 or 1911 censuses for England. Arthur married Emily Jane CHANT - there are two marriages registered in FreeBMD, firstly in Bruton, Somerset, in Wincanton distict in Q4 of 1905 and secondly, in Guildford in Q3 of 1906. Arthur and Emily Jane had three sons, all now dead: 1. Leslie Cyril Gough, born in Bruton on January 5th., 1907. Married with living issue. 2. Arthur Lionel Gough, born in Farnham, Surrey, on January 4th., 1911. Married with living issue. 3. Roy Harold Gough, born in Chertsey, Surrey, on February 5th., 1920. Married with no known issue. If the second marriage was of my Arthur and my Emily, then young Leslie would have been well on his way, by Q3 of 1906. These Goughs are distant laterals and I would not be buying confirming certificates. I have thought about a big Army or other reception / celebration in 1906, but the second registration of the marriage really puzzles me. Has this occurred to any body else? Peter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "rprier" <[email protected]> To: "Peter Ferreira" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [GOUGH] Arthur William GOUGH married Emily Jane CHANT twice!!! > Just a thought-- could the first have been by a judge & the second by a > preacher or priest? If he was in the army maybe they didn't want or have > time for a big marriage for the first but did the next year? <snip>

I suggest requesting marriage certificates for each marriage. The documents should be available, possibly on the Internet. They would clarify any question about the marriages. Steade

What should I make of the FreeBMD records for the marriages of my cousin, Arthur William GOUGH? In FreeBMD, I pick out two marriages between Arthur William GOUGH and Emily Jane CHANT, in two different locations and in two different years: firstly, in Bruton, Somerset, in Wincanton distict in Q4 of 1905, and secondly, in Guildford, in Q3 of 1906. In those years, as best I can determine, Arthur was in the Army Service Corp.. Any helpful suggestions? Peter Ferreira Toronto, Canada.

If you Copy the batch number you want from Hugh's site, then go to the Family Search website, Advanced Search and Paste the batch number, you should get what you are looking for: https://www.familysearch.org/ Yvonne Scrivener Canberra ACT Australia -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] It was the _Hugh Wallis' site_ (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyS omerset.htm) query/search that would not function.

If you are referring to the search for parish names on Ian's PR site below, all the links are working when I tried them just now: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/ian.sage/PR/pr_index.html Somerset also has an OPC website: http://wsom-opc.org.uk/ Yvonne Scrivener Canberra ACT Australia -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] In a message dated 8/31/2011 8:07:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/ian.sage/PR/pr_index.html Thank you for providing the information. By the wary, the query or search program for parish surnames does not seem to function. I will attempt to let Ian Sage know. I have been doing family research on the Cornwall Family History Society website and also the Cornwall OPC Database. The Cornwall OPC data is very user friendly for searching, especially across all the Cornwall parishes or for a particular person. I would recommend the format.

Take a look at Ian Sage's website for locations of online PR transcripts for Somerset - all transcripts are done by volunteers, so if what you want isn't there, why not consider volunteering for it? FreeREG would gladly accept your services in that regard - either as a transcriber or if you have already transcribed a register / parish, they would welcome donations of those files. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/ian.sage/PR/pr_index.html http://www.freereg.org.uk/ Yvonne Scrivener (Frome Area assistant for FreeREG) Canberra ACT Australia Now with over TWO MILLION Somerset parish records free to search on freeREG. www.freeREG.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Are the early, pre-1800, Somerset County/Shire Parish Records accessible online? If so, where are they located?

Hi fellow researchers, My name is Ann Harrington and I have just joined the ENG_SOMERSET mailing list. I live in an outer suburb of Melbourne, Australia across from a national park. However, I was born in Michigan, USA, living in various parts of that state until I came to Melbourne in 1976. I went back to Michigan in Dec of 1976, married a boyfriend and he joined me here in April 1977. We have had two children here. I love where I live. I recently came across some of my husband's ancestors who came from Banwell, Somerset in England. I think I may have come across two lines of this family and I am looking for their common ancestor. The first person is a JOHN A. HEMANS who immigrated from BANWELL about 1835. He was married to a MINNIE P HILL. They moved to a village in COLLAMER ONANDAGA COUNTY NEW YORK. In 1864 their son LAWTON THOMAS HEMANS was born. When he was around eleven months old they moved to ONEIDA EATON COUNTY MICHIGAN. This is one branch I think. I also have information on my husband's direct line. SYLVESTER HEMANS was born in 1811 at SOMERSET, ENGLAND. He married MARIA BOX, daughter of JOHN and ANN BOX. SYLVESTER HEMANS appears on the census of 31 October 1850 at RICHLAND OSWEGO NEW YORK. Sylvester has nine children and some of them moved to Michigan but some of them remained in New York. Mystery. LAWTON THOMAS HEMANS shows up in connection with SYLVESTER HEMANS' granddaughter GEORGIA LOUISE HEMANS. LAWTON T HEMANS is on a card in GEORGIA'S autograph book. Since both Hemans families traced back to Somerset, I am thinking that they may be related. Another family link to SOMERSET. GEORGIA LOUISE HEMANS married FRANK WILLARD DUCKHAM on 27 March 1895 at her parent's home in LEONI TWP. JACKSON MICHIGAN. It turns out that FRANK'S parents, JOHN DUCKHAM and MARIA STANDFIELD also came from SOMERSET. JOHN DUCKHAM'S grandparents were JAMES DUCKHAM and HONOUR BROWN. His parents were WILLIAM DUCKHAM and ANNABELLA WARREN. They were both born in 1820 in WEARE SOMERSET. Their son JOHN DUCKHAM was baptised 1st August 1852 in WEARE but we think he was born in 1851. JOHN DUCKHAM'S wife MARIA STANFIELD was born in 1850 and baptised on 5 January 1851 at DRAYCOTT CHEDDAR SOMERSET. MARIA'S parents were THOMAS and SARAH STANFIELD. JOHN DUCKHAM AND MARIA STANFIELD were married on the 16 May 1878 at the PARISH CHURCH of WEARE SOMERSET. MARIA apparently has a son already who is called FRANK WILLARD DUCKHAM. He shows up as a three year old in November 1879 on the ship Germanic to NEW YORK. I am looking for his birth or baptism records; probably in Draycott Cheddar. Family lore is that his biological father was someone else than John Duckham. If anyone is researching in these family lines, I would love to connect with you. I would also love to connect with anyone who has old photos collected of these areas of SOMERSET. I am creating a photo album about the lives of these ancestors. Thanks for any tips you can give me. I haven't research much in England yet. I am looking forward to discovering the history in the area of SOMERSET as it would have influenced these family members. I am always interested in why they left their homes. I ended up in Australia because I had an offer for work for 18 months. I had no idea that this decision would shape my future. Leaving my own family roots has stirred up an interest in why these individuals would leave their families behind. I love discovering their daily lives if possible. How did they live? Are any original buildings still around? Or photos of them? Thanks for any assistance with where to search for photos. Sincerely, Ann Harrington

Batch no's don't seem to be working since they combined the pilot site. Sheila ======================================== Message Received: Sep 01 2011, 05:52 AM From: "Yvonne Scrivener" To: [email protected] Cc: Subject: Re: [ENG-SOM] Somerset County Earlier Parish Records If you Copy the batch number you want from Hugh's site, then go to the Family Search website, Advanced Search and Paste the batch number, you should get what you are looking for: https://www.familysearch.org/ Yvonne Scrivener Canberra ACT Australia -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] It was the _Hugh Wallis' site_ (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyS omerset.htm) query/search that would not function. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 8/31/2011 9:16:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: http://wsom-opc.org.uk/ Thanks again. I did find a James Crago and his wife, and daughter, Joan, in baptism records, 15 July 1714, for St. Michael's Church, Orchard Portman. I could not find another Crago, using spelling variations, in the county parish records. Perhaps this James Crago was from Cornwall or Devon. Regards, Steade

In a message dated 8/31/2011 9:16:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/ian.sage/PR/pr_index.html thanks again. It was the _Hugh Wallis' site_ (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountySomerset.htm) query/search that would not function. Steade

In a message dated 8/31/2011 8:07:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/ian.sage/PR/pr_index.html Thank you for providing the information. By the wary, the query or search program for parish surnames does not seem to function. I will attempt to let Ian Sage know. I have been doing family research on the Cornwall Family History Society website and also the Cornwall OPC Database. The Cornwall OPC data is very user friendly for searching, especially across all the Cornwall parishes or for a particular person. I would recommend the format. Regards, Steade

Hello, Are the early, pre-1800, Somerset County/Shire Parish Records accessible online? If so, where are they located? And has David Hay, or someone like him, done a survey on the early distribution of Somerset surnames? Regards, Steade

John and Duncan . This may help you . My Robert Hortop married Susannah Sweet 1746 in North Lew Devon . Susannah`s parents were John Sweet born 1699 and Gennet Gammon born 1700 . Could Gennet be Janet . Children Richard 1718-William 1721--Susannah 1723--Tobias1726 and Peter 1729 John`s parents were Tobias Sweet born 1653 and Mary Parker born 1657 . Laurie Australia -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Duncan Smith Sent: Sunday, 28 August 2011 11:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [ENG-SOM] Jane CLOTHIER / William SWEET John, you asked about the marriage c 1833 between Jane CLOTHIER & William SWEET, after the death of Williams first wife. According to the Somerset Marriage Index it took place at Barwick on 24 Feb 1834 and the witnesses were John Dodge & Elizabeth Salisbury. Unfortunately 1834 is one of the years yet to be transcribed for FreeREG, so I cant give you any more detail than that. Duncan, Dundee ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

John, you asked about the marriage c 1833 between Jane CLOTHIER & William SWEET, after the death of William’s first wife. According to the Somerset Marriage Index it took place at Barwick on 24 Feb 1834 and the witnesses were John Dodge & Elizabeth Salisbury. Unfortunately 1834 is one of the years yet to be transcribed for FreeREG, so I can’t give you any more detail than that. Duncan, Dundee

Hello fellow listers I am helping a South African friend with her English genealogy. In 1881, her Great grandfather, James Gregory & his family, were living at the 'Queens Head', High Street, Weston, James' occupation was listed as 'Wheelwright & Licensed Victualler' I have tried to find information & a photograph on this public house in 1881, but to no avail. I wonder if someone on the list may be able to help me. Thank you Helen in New Zealand [email protected]

Helen in New Zealand asked about James GREGORY and family, who lived at the Queens Head, High Street, Weston in 1881. Certainly the site http://deadpubs.co.uk does not appear to list your Queens Head in it’s 1889 directory of Somerset pubs. On the other hand James GREGORY does appear as the person running a Queen’s Head in the 1876/7 Bath directory (page 413). He is still there in 1884/5 listed as J.GREGORY Wheelwright. However, in the 1891 census there is a Joseph RICHMOND occupying an address described as Queens Head, no 15 Trafalgar Place, Weston. In the 1895 Bath directory he appears as J.RICHMOND, Brewer, of Queen’s Head, Ladd’s Barton, Weston. You might also try contacting the local Weston library in Church street for more information. Duncan, Dundee