In 1709 the brothers Joshua, Francis and Baldwin ACLAND leased some plots of land named New Invention and Camworthy, from one Humphrey SYDENHAM. This land had been part of Dulverton Manor. When this info came to light in 2004, Somerset Listers sent advice and even maps. Since then, however, several life-changes including moving house twice and settling interstate, changing computers..... and you can guess the rest! Yes, all lost, apart from the information above. So my question is, can SKS help with the "where and what" of this New Invention place? Pam in Yack.

Am returning to this list after some time away from it. SOM-listers have been immensely helpful in the past and we had some great break-throughs, which when added to a cousin's research became a book for family and friends. Our great-grandfather Dr John Boucher WEST, b Crowcombe SOM Oct 10 1806, came to settle in Australia in 1838, bringing with him his brother William Dyer WEST and sister Elizabeth, and his own small son John Meadows WEST.....since our searchings began many details of descendants as well as antecedents of this family have come to light. Am currently chasing a trail relating to their ancestry, and will be asking the list for help on this. My husband and I live in country Victoria; gardens, dogs, books and family my main interests. Now, to compose my request for assistance. Pam in Yack.  

Michael Many thanks for this. I'm not sure if this John is anyone on www.mallettfamilyhistory.org so can anyone throw any light on this ? Mike Mallett -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 04 September 2011 15:37 To: [email protected] Subject: [ENG-SOM] Death of John MALLETT survivor from sunken Royal George ( 1832 ) >From The Examiner ( London, England ), Sunday, August 5, 1832; Issue 1279. DEATH. On 31st ult., at Bath, Mr. John MALLETT , aged 82. He was one of those who escaped from the Royal George, Admiral Kempenfeldt, which went down at Spithead in 1782. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Yvonne, Robert Francis Manning, was born in Ballyhaise, Co. Cavan, Ireland on 1st May 1882 to Robert & Mary Jane Manning. He sailed to Canada sometime before 1916 as he was inducted into the Canadian Expeditionary Forces on the 24th August of that year. At sometime between 1916 & 1925 he met and became engaged to Dora Winnifred PHILLPUT of Bath,Somerset. She later travel to Canada and they were married in December 1925. On 29th May 1935 Robert F. died from a brain haemorrhage and his widow later returned to England. Where in 1940 aged 60yrs she married Arthur Samuel HORLER ( My Greatgrandfather) -- Regards, TonyM mailto:[email protected]

In a message dated 9/4/2011 5:17:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: 1719. BRISTOL, July 6. Thursday one Deborah SYMS , being observed to place a parcel on a bulk, in St. Thomas Street, some neighbours had the curiosity to open it, when, to their great surprize, they found the body infant; upon which the said Deborah was taken into custody, and under examination confessed herself the mother - she was conveyed to St. Peter's hospital. The jury hath since brought in their verdict :- Still-born. Sad story....this happened too often to want to think, and worse in the sweat shops, orphanges, urban slums, rural villages and estates and manors, etc, etc,

>From Public Ledger ( London, England ), Tuesday, July 9, 1765; Issue 1719. BRISTOL, July 6. Thursday one Deborah SYMS , being observed to place a parcel on a bulk, in St. Thomas Street, some neighbours had the curiosity to open it, when, to their great surprize, they found the body infant; upon which the said Deborah was taken into custody, and under examination confessed herself the mother - she was conveyed to St. Peter's hospital. The jury hath since brought in their verdict :- Still-born.

>From The Examiner ( London, England ), Sunday, August 5, 1832; Issue 1279. DEATH. On 31st ult., at Bath, Mr. John MALLETT , aged 82. He was one of those who escaped from the Royal George, Admiral Kempenfeldt, which went down at Spithead in 1782.

>From Bristol Mercury ( Bristol, England ), Saturday, February 23, 1850; Issue 3127. DIED. Killed by the aborigines, at Bribie Island, near Moreton Bay, in Australia, Mr. Charles GRAY , brother of the Rev. H. F. GRAY , vicar of Pilton, Somerset.

Hi Yvonne, It is strange that the image that you sent to me shows her as a Teacher, but on another image a return for the Canadian Government Immigration Service she is noted as a Photographer. I have looked for Robert Francis Manning arriving from Ireland but had no luck, will you please give it go?? On his death certificate in 1936 it states that he had been in Canada for twenty years. Hope you can help! best wishes and thanks Tony Saturday, September 3, 2011, 8:21:22 PM, you wrote: > She had a few career changes then, ending up ar removed from photography :) > -----Original Message----- > From: TonyM [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Saturday, 3 September 2011 6:53 PM > To: Yvonne Scrivener > Subject: Re: FW: [ENG-SOM] Search for Marriage details? > Hi Yvonne, > Gawd! you do know how to complicate things! > Dora was a Nurse not a Teacher according to her marriage > certificate. > But who knows what she was doing in Canada, perhaps that is > the secret of her name change. > Married in Canada and separate by 1940 in Somerset. > I shall have to check Canadian marriages if I can! > Many thanks > Tony > in Bright > Saturday, September 3, 2011, 4:02:36 PM, you wrote: >> And from Findmypast, the attached image. >> Yvonne >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Yvonne Scrivener [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Saturday, 3 September 2011 3:58 PM >> To: '[email protected]' >> Subject: RE: [ENG-SOM] Search for Marriage details? >> Hi Tony, >> Have you tried the Canadian records? On Ancestry there is a record: >> Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935 Record for Dora Phillput >> Dora born about 1880 in Bath. >> Yvonne Scrivener >> Canberra ACT >> Australia >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tony M >> Dora Winnifred PHILLPUT was born in Bath during 1880 according to FreeBMD >> In December 1940 aged 60yrs she married Arthur Samuel HORLER in Weston >> super Mare >> registry office; both parties having been previously married Dora >> Winnifred was married under the >> surname of MANNING. >> The puzzle is that I haven't been able to find a marriage for Manning >> / Phillput in the presiding >> years. >> Dora W PHILLPOT is enumerated in the 1901 census as being a >> Photographer's Assistant >> and living in Herne Hill, Lambeth. >> ______________________________________________ >> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence >> http://www.netintelligence.com/email -- Regards, TonyM mailto:[email protected]

Hi Yvonne, My, you are fantastic!! Name: Robert Francis Manning Birth Place: Ireland Age: 44 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881 Father Name: Robert Manning Mother Name: Mary Jane Brown Spouse Name: Dora Winifred Phillput Spouse's Age: 39 Spouse Birth Place: England Spouse Father Name: Francis William Phillput Spouse Mother Name: Grace May Chambers Marriage Date: 30 Apr 1925 Marriage County: York Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS932_698 Large amount of thanks Regards, TonyM mailto:[email protected]

Hi Tony, Have you tried the Canadian records? On Ancestry there is a record: Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935 Record for Dora Phillput Dora born about 1880 in Bath. Yvonne Scrivener Canberra ACT Australia -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tony M Dora Winnifred PHILLPUT was born in Bath during 1880 according to FreeBMD In December 1940 aged 60yrs she married Arthur Samuel HORLER in Weston super Mare registry office; both parties having been previously married Dora Winnifred was married under the surname of MANNING. The puzzle is that I haven't been able to find a marriage for Manning / Phillput in the presiding years. Dora W PHILLPOT is enumerated in the 1901 census as being a Photographer's Assistant and living in Herne Hill, Lambeth.

Can anyone please assist me with a puzzle. Dora Winnifred PHILLPUT was born in Bath during 1880 according to FreeBMD In December 1940 aged 60yrs she married Arthur Samuel HORLER in Weston super Mare registry office; both parties having been previously married Dora Winnifred was married under the surname of MANNING. The puzzle is that I haven't been able to find a marriage for Manning / Phillput in the presiding years. Dora W PHILLPOT is enumerated in the 1901 census as being a Photographer's Assistant and living in Herne Hill, Lambeth. After this point I can't anything, can someone offer help?? -- Tony M

Peter Ferreira wrote: > Hi, again, Steade, > > Yes, the only absolutely good source is the image of the original page. > Ancestry.com does a bang-up job in their census search section. Frequently, > the census index is just plain wrong. However, the census image sorts out > almost all ambiguities. > > Pity that we do not have something comparable for the certificates of birth, > marriage and death!! For me, it is still about $10 to buy a certificate and > that I can only afford for ancestors. According to a source at the GRO, they have a site ready to go for just that but the cuts being made has put the project on hold. Likewise their site for the post 2005/6 BMDs. Even then, the information on the certificates is only as good as the informant. How many times have researchers been sent on a wild goose chase by a father on a marriage certificate who doesn't exist? Or a husband named on a birth certificate who's actually married to someone else or who doesn't exist? Death certific ates are the least accurate. The informant may not actually know the information required and guesses or is too distressed to remember it correctly. Human error, deliberate or not, will always be with us. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

>From Jackson's Oxford Journal, Saturday, October 4, 1817; Issue 3363. MARRIED. J. S. USHER , Esq., of Bristol, to Mrs. NAIRNE , widow of the late Major R. NAIRNE , of the Hon. East India Company's 6th Regiment of Cavalry.

[email protected] wrote: > Although a lateral issue, wedding certificates would resolve what appears > to be a dilemma for you. > > Actually, I think the other gentleman's suggestion about Army's requirement > of approval to marry may the reason behind the two marriages, if the cited > FreeBMD online information is accurate. The images can be checked but they are only as accurate as the clerk in the register office and/or the clerk at the GRO. FreeBMD's is only as accurate as the index they were working from. > Or, possibly the couple only wanted to renew their wedding vows. If they were only renewing their vows, it wouldn't be shown as a marriage. The two ceremonies are very different. > > By the way, are both the 'Go' and "Goff" pronunciations typically used for > GOUGH surname? > > Regards, > > Steade > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

In 1911 they were all at Buller Barracks (Area 5), Stanhope Lines, Aldershot. Because it is an institutional return for the barracks, the serving officers and soldiers are listed separately first and then their families are listed. So Arthur William is to be found at RG14PN3123 RD34 SD2 ED13 SN9999 - he was a Lance Corporal age 32, a clerk in the Army Service Corps, and gave his birthplace as Shaftesbury, Dorset. Emily and the boys are a few pages further on - she was 29, born Bruton; Leslie Cyril 4, born Bruton; and Arthur Lionel 2 months, born Aldershot. Emily states that she has been married for 5 years (and, very considerately, all the wives' entries also give the age of their separately enumerated husband!) Hope this helps. Celia ><snip> >Arthur William GOUGH was born in 1880 in East Knoyle, Wilts, birth >registered in Mere district in Q4 of 1880. Arthur joined the Army Service >Corp. in 1896 and served there for at least 20 years. I cannot find him in >the 1901 or 1911 censuses for England.

Hi, again, Steade, Yes, the only absolutely good source is the image of the original page. Ancestry.com does a bang-up job in their census search section. Frequently, the census index is just plain wrong. However, the census image sorts out almost all ambiguities. Pity that we do not have something comparable for the certificates of birth, marriage and death!! For me, it is still about $10 to buy a certificate and that I can only afford for ancestors. Have a great week-end, coming up, Steade. Best wishes. Peter. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-SOM] [GOUGH] Arthur William GOUGH married Emily Jane CHANTtwice!!! > > In a message dated 9/2/2011 10:16:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > The images can be checked but they are only as accurate as the clerk > in the register office and/or the clerk at the GRO. FreeBMD's is only > as accurate as the index they were working from. > > > > > > The above situation would seem to create a singular quandary during > genealogical research, and possibly will not to be resolved until > availability > of time travel. Human error, both historic and modern, is always to be > judiciously and reasonably considered during record research. The > question > becomes when can one determine what is truly accurate in any human > endeavor? > > Regards, > Steade > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 9/2/2011 10:16:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: The images can be checked but they are only as accurate as the clerk in the register office and/or the clerk at the GRO. FreeBMD's is only as accurate as the index they were working from. The above situation would seem to create a singular quandary during genealogical research, and possibly will not to be resolved until availability of time travel. Human error, both historic and modern, is always to be judiciously and reasonably considered during record research. The question becomes when can one determine what is truly accurate in any human endeavor? Regards, Steade

On 2011/09/02 02:55, Peter Ferreira wrote: > In FreeBMD, I pick out two marriages between Arthur William GOUGH and Emily > Jane CHANT, in two different locations and in two different years: firstly, > in Bruton, Somerset, in Wincanton distict in Q4 of 1905, and secondly, in > Guildford, in Q3 of 1906. In those years, as best I can determine, Arthur > was in the Army Service Corp.. > > Any helpful suggestions? There was probably something wrong with the details of the first registration that necessitated a correction or alteration. The GRO does not alter registration details. Instead, it makes a second registration and adds an annotation to the first denoting that this has been done. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

Peter Ferreira wrote: > It is possible that Army protocols required special arrangements, > which the Registrar General for births, deaths and marriages would > not have approved. It's not the Registrar General who wouldn't have approved. It would have been the /Army/ who wouldn't have approved. It's perfectly possible both marriages ARE your couple. If Arthur was already in the Army when he married in Bruton, it may have been without his CO's permission. If that was the case, if he was killed, his widow wouldn't have received any financial considerations due to her because the army would not have recognised the marriage as legal even though it would have been. Therefore, Arthur would have needed his CO's permission which he probably sought when he knew Emily was expecting, hence the second marriage in Guildford RD. If the local registrar was a bit tardy in sending in his return, it's possible the marriage was recorded in the quarter following the one in which it took place. Thus the second marriage may have been earlier than it appears to be. I would suggest either joining the Rootsweb Surrey list and asking if anyone is going to the record office if they could check the second marriage details for you OR contacting the local registrar's office and asking if the fathers for the couple are those given on the Bruton marriage, obviously actually giving the names but acting innocent and not admitting you have the Bruton marriage cert. Sometimes they will tell you, sometimes they'll insist you buy the cert. The only other reason I can think of for a second marriage is that there was something wrong with the first one, eg one party was already married to someone else or someone made an objection. The second marriage was usually in the same parish but may have been in a neighbouring one. It wouldn't usually have been half way across the country as this seems to have been. > FreeBMD, now a Rootsweb service, is usually very reliable, with > effective corrective mechanisms in place. FreeBMD is NOT a Rootsweb service and never has been. It's totally independent. It's one third of FreeUK, the other parts being FreeCEN and FreeREG. Ancestry and Rootsweb /sponsor/ FreeBMD's site along with The Bunker but that is something completely different. In return for Ancestry's sponsorship, FreeBMD let them have a copy of their database on condition it remained free of charge but it was always slightly out of date compared to their own site: www.freebmd.org.uk What they have is a transcription of the GRO indices which are in themselves a transcription of the quarterly returns from the local register offices. The only corrections that can be made are to mistranscriptions made by FreeBMD transcribers, not mistranscriptions by the registrar's clerk or GRO clerks. However, additional information and details from certificates held can be added to entries using the Postem system. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/