Since Webber is being discussed - hoping that someone may have a Humphrey Webber born somewhere around 1701. He was married in Crewkerne but there were no Webbers before him so he is from somewhere else - place unknown Thanks Beverly

Hi, Forgot one of my Somerset Families. Sydney Baynton an edgetool maker and hs wife Elizabeth Rossiter, came to Tasmania in 1861 from Somerset. Noting all of the surnames. Can I suggest in order to get the best out of folk seeing your surnames you put them in the subject heading as well. Folk google looking for families and this is when they will see your family names, so put them in the subject heading of your post. Years down the track peole still get in touch. Also in the archives when folk are searching, it is easier to spot when the surname is placed in the subject heading. From experience, Iknow it is much better to do that. Edie

Hi Steade No I have not come across that spelling so far, very interesting though. The Crocker family in my tree is a bit of a brickwall . From what info I have gained so far they all come from around the Chew Stoke, Nempnett area. I even hired a researcher over in Taunton to do some searching for me, they couldn't find any info different to what I had found. This mother Sarah Jane Crocker/Croker had an illegitimate son & I have her family but she just disappeared without a trace, very frustrating. Sarah could have made it a bit easier for us down the track, didn't she know someone would be looking for her in over a hundred years time. Cheers Lynette -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 3:13 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-SOM] Crocker surname... Hello Lynette Crocker, Have you ever come across an early spelling for Crocker similar to Cruqquor or Creve-coeur? Regards, Steade

Hi, I can't really answer your question with any sure knowledge - sorry! My own family connection is from the marriage of Joan BAILEY and Richard PORTER 27 Feb 1794 in Spaxton, Somerset. Joan came from Enmore Somerset (baptised there 27 Feb 1771), daughter of Moses and Hannah. That is where my research ends so far unfortunately. There is evidence of BDM for Bailey families in Enmore dating back to the 1690s and also in nearby Aisholt (dates back to a similar period), but as yet Moses has proved extremely elusive! (Other than his marriage to Hannah Gulliver in Aisholt in 1769 I haven't been able to trace him. hence my request to the list. Steve

Hi Lynette and Steade Just thought I'd mention that I have a Sarah Crocker, daughter of James and Mary, baptised Lympsham 1807. She marrried George Sealey Mogg in Lympsham in 1827. One of their daughters, Caroline married Jesse Fields and emigrated to America. I am in contact with some of their descendants there. I am related to the Field(s) and Sealey Mogg families of Lympsham. Regards Heather

Hi all :-) My main surnames in Somerset are : BALE family : in and about Wellington. Have a James, (Mar Ann's father) but have no real idea where  or when he was born. Have Mary Ann's birth of Microfilm from the LDS. Though there are links with Culmstock (her mother, GILLARD, Mary, was born there) in Devon, which is just over the County border. WEBBER, George 7 Mar 1815/1811 : in and about Bridgwater. Birthday written in his daughter's "Rememberance Book" I put in and about VERY seriously with this surname as I've read through MANY microfilms at the LDS look for a birth which DID happen, but can not be found.............. (I am living proof of this birth! ;-)  ) BALE, Mary Ann ( 20 Jan 1832 Wellington, Som. - 8 Sept 1910 Victoria, Australia.) married (7 Nov 1850 in Australia) WEBBER,, George (7 Mar 1815 OR 1811 Bridgwater, Som. - 7 Apr 1871 Victoria, Australia.) If you have a 'lost' a George WEBBER and think he might be one of yours, please feel very free to contact me.... It appears he left for Australia early in the 1840's. He was reputed to be a Ship's Captain, but when he died he was a Shoemaker, due to health reasons. ANY ideas??? Please, I would be most grateful for :-)) Thank you for taking the time to read this, Chris in Tasmania   " OLD , anywhere, anytime." Buckinghamshire, AND Surrey: MEADER; BERSEY; Dor:OLD; HOOPER; ILES; DAVIS; MEADER; BERSEY; Ham.: GALE; YOUNG; FREWIN; VINCENT; HULBERT; MOSS; PHELPS;  Som.: WEBBER; BALE; Suff.: TYLER; LEEKS; Aust. Vic.: WEBBER; BALE; HALE; LARCOMBE; KENNETT; Aust. Tas.: OLD; GALE;   Please visit: www.dorset-opc.com

I know this may be a wild card but it may be of interest. One of my Catchpole family married an Alfred Crocker. Sarah Ann Catchpole married a John Chandler in 1897 in Moorlinch Somerset and had two children Henry and Herbert. John Chandler died in 1898. In the 1901 census Sarah is working as a housekeeper at 32 Hill House, Moorlinch, Bridgwater for Alfred Crocker who was a Master Mariner. Sarah married Alfred in 1902 in Brentford Middlesex. Alfred came from Middlesex. regards Bob -----Original Message----- From: Lyn Crocker Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 9:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [ENG-SOM] Crocker surname... Hi Steade No I have not come across that spelling so far, very interesting though. The Crocker family in my tree is a bit of a brickwall . From what info I have gained so far they all come from around the Chew Stoke, Nempnett area. I even hired a researcher over in Taunton to do some searching for me, they couldn't find any info different to what I had found. This mother Sarah Jane Crocker/Croker had an illegitimate son & I have her family but she just disappeared without a trace, very frustrating. Sarah could have made it a bit easier for us down the track, didn't she know someone would be looking for her in over a hundred years time. Cheers Lynette -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 3:13 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-SOM] Crocker surname... Hello Lynette Crocker, Have you ever come across an early spelling for Crocker similar to Cruqquor or Creve-coeur? Regards, Steade ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Chris, Here are some more BALES, with places of birth. The last named is mine. All for now, good luck, WENDY Henry Bale abt 1791 Somerset, England Bickenhall, Somerset Henry Bale abt 1826 Somerset, England Bridgwater, Somerset Henry Bale abt 1831 Somerset, England Bridgwater, Somerset Henry Bale abt 1816 Somerset, England St Decuman, Somerset Henry Bale abt 1796 St James, Somerset Henry Bale abt 1840 Somerset, England St James, Somerset Henry Bale abt 1766 Somerset, England St Lawrence Lydeard, Somerset

Dear Chris, Here is a list compiled from on-line Parish Registers of WEBBER family, hope it is of some use, but no doubt there are others elsewhere. WENDY BICKNOLLER BAPTISMS Webber Robert John/Ann 6 11 1763 BICKNOLLER MARRIAGES George Webber Elworthy Priscilla Doble 21 10 1703 John Webber Ann Bastone 10 11 1752 BICKNOLLER BURIALS Robert Webber 18 5 1760 Love Webber 21 5 1786 1829 72 Robert Webber Stogumber Mar 22 66 1829 76 Ann Webber Bicknoller Sept 13 1 1936 603 Elizabeth Jane Welsher Cottiford Mar 12 81 COMBE FLOREY BAPTISMS William Webber George/Mary 6 3 1756 Sarah Webber John/Mary 18 9 1761 Betty Webber John/Mary 10 6 1763 Hannah Webber George/Mary 30 12 1764 Mary Webber John/Mary 24 3 1765 John Webber John/Mary 8 2 1767 Amos Webber Amos/Ann 20 4 1767 Maria Webber David/Catharine 13 12 1777 Thomas Webber John/Mary 2 7 1778 Samuel Webber Thomas/Mary 17 2 1799 COMBE FLOREY MARRIAGES George Webber Mary Abraham L.St.Law 7 2 1749 COMBE FLOREY BURIALS Mary Webber 2 5 1771 wife of George John Webber Combe Florey 16 1 1801 aged 72 Ann Webber Combe Florey 15 11 1801 widow of Amos John Webber Combe Florey 20 9 1818 aged 51 Samuel Webber Combe Florey 10 1 1819 aged 20 Mary Webber Combe Florey 8 12 1822 aged 92 CLATWORTHY BAPTISMS 26 Nov 1721 WEBBER Susannah Philip Mary 21 Feb 1729 WEBBER Mary George Joan 29 May 1730 WEBBER Joan William Elizabeth 29 Jan 1731 WEBBER Elizabeth George Joan 17 Jan 1733 WEBBER William William Elizabeth 02 Mar 1735 WEBBER Samuel William Elizabeth 31 Dec 1736 WEBBER Samuel Samuel Anne x Huish Champflower 29 Mar 1738 WEBBER John Thomas Grace 06 May 1738 WEBBER Robert William Elizabeth 22 Feb 1740 WEBBER Anne Philip Isabella x Wiveliscombe 29 Feb 1740 WEBBER Anne Thomas Grace 09 Jan 1741 WEBBER Thomas William Elizabeth 19 Mar 1742 WEBBER John Philip Isabella 01 May 1743 WEBBER William James Elizabeth 30 Dec 1743 WEBBER Sarah Thomas Grace 18 Apr 1745 WEBBER John William Elizabeth 04 Oct 1745 WEBBER James Philip Isabella 13 Mar 1747 WEBBER James James Elizabeth 27 Nov 1747 WEBBER Mary Philip Isabella 01 Jun 1748 WEBBER Jane Thomas Grace 05 Aug 1748 WEBBER George William Elizabeth 06 May 1750 WEBBER Elizabeth Philip Isabella 06 Jan 1751 WEBBER Mary Thomas Grace 27 Sep 1761 WEBBER William Thomas Grace ?? ??? 1763 WEBBER Thomas John Ann 18 Oct 1770 WEBBER Mary Samuel Elizabeth 25 Dec 1770 WEBBER James John Anne 29 Jun 1778 WEBBER John John Ann 10 Sep 1779 WEBBER Betty Robert Betty 22 Apr 1781 WEBBER Grace John Ann ?? ??? 1784 WEBBER Hannah Robert Elizabeth twins ?? ??? 1784 WEBBER Martha Robert Elizabeth 14 Apr 1786 WEBBER Joan George Joan 04 Jul 1787 WEBBER William Robert Ann 07 Nov 1787 WEBBER Joh George Joan 01 Feb 1792 WEBBER Sarah George Joan 09 Mar 1794 WEBBER James George Mary 26 Oct 1796 WEBBER George George Joan 16 Aug 1799 WEBBER Hannah George Joan farmer 14 Apr 1800 WEBBER Wilmet HONIBALL Ann spinster 15 Mar 1801 WEBBER John Susannah spinster single - base born 10 Jan 1802 WEBBER Elizabeth John Elizabeth 23 Dec 1803 WEBBER Jane George Joan CHIPSTABLE BANNS WEBBER Joan Samuel BUSSEL 02 Apr 1769 29 husbandman Joan x Elworthy WEBBER Julia John BAKER 17 Apr 1808 103 - - WEBBER Mary William PALMER 01 Feb 1807 98 - - WEBBER Mary Robert HAWKINS 18 Apr 1762 16 husbandman - WEBBER Mary John TIMLET 30 Oct 1791 72 - - CHIPSTABLE MARRIAGES WEBBER Betty Isaac Newton James Dunn William KIMP 08 Dec 1793 75b - - WEBBER Charlotte John Baker Julia Baker Thomas WITHERS 12 Apr 1813 2b - - WEBBER Elizabeth Thomas Stevens James Dunn David PLEASE 05 Apr 1789 68b - - WEBBER James Joseph Hill Anna Lansdown Mary KING 08 Dec 1816 10b - Mary x Wiveliscombe WEBBER Joan Robert Hill James Dunn Samuel BUSSEL 04 Apr 1769 29b husbandman Joan x Elworthy WEBBER Julia John Burton Charlotte Webber John BAKER 20 Apr 1808 103b - - WEBBER Mary Robert Hill James Dunn Thomas HOBBS 19 Jan 1783 53b - - WEBBER Mary John Paul James Dunn John Johns 27 May 1781 52b - - WEBBER Mary James Gold James Dunn John TIMLET 03 Nov 1791 72b - - WEBBER Mary John Dunn John Webber Robert HAWKINS 23 Apr 1762 16b husbandman - WEBBER Mary Robert Warren Betty Webber William PALMER 06 Apr 1807 98b - - WEBBER Robert - - Elizabeth STONE 26 Feb 1723 - - Rob x Huish Champflower WEBBER Samuel - - Mary HAYES 31 Jul 1729 - - Mary x Brompton Regis WEBBER Sarah - - John EWENS 26 Jun 1733 - - Sarah x Wiveliscombe CHIPSTABLE BAPTISMS WEBBER Agness 12 Apr 1752 John Agness - - - WEBBER Ann 06 Aug 1826 Thomas Harriet 161 labourer Withycombe House WEBBER Ann 22 May 1803 William Mary - - - WEBBER Ann 05 Jan 1793 George Jane - - - WEBBER Beaty 01 Aug 1782 William Hannah - - - WEBBER Betty 08 Jan 1775 George Betty - - - WEBBER Caroline 29 Jun 1829 James Mary 191 labourer x Milverton WEBBER Charlot 29 Jun 1791 William Hanah - - - WEBBER Grace 14 May 1797 William Mary - - - WEBBER James 18 Jul 1830 James Mary 215 labourer - WEBBER James 19 Jan 1823 William Mary 114 labourer x Upton, single - base born WEBBER James Langdon 02 May 1788 William Hannah - - - WEBBER Jane 05 Jan 1793 George Jane - - - WEBBER John 26 Dec 1754 John Agness - - - WEBBER Joseph 11 Aug 1822 John Sarah 108 labourer - WEBBER Mary 30 Jun 1726 Robert Elizabeth - - - WEBBER Mary 06 Oct 1805 William Mary - - born 22.09.1805 WEBBER Mary 21 Jul 1776 William Hannah - - - WEBBER Sarah 14 Aug 1724 Robert Elizabeth - - - WEBBER Thomas 05 Feb 1731 Robert Elizabeth - - - WEBBER Thomas 03 Apr 1794 William Hannah - - - WEBBER William 23 Feb 1794 William Mary - - - WEBBER William 02 Jan 1825 James Mary 136 labourer - WEBBER William 28 Feb 1796 William Mary - - - WEBBER William 15 Oct 1779 William Hanner - - - WEBBER William 20 Apr 1817 James Mary 55 labourer - WEBBER William 17 Dec 1749 John Agnis - - - WEBER Jewleah 16 Jun 1785 William Hannah - - - CHIPSTABLE BURIALS WEBBER Grace - - 14 Apr 1799 - - - WEBBER Grace - - 07 Oct 1810 - - - WEBBER Hannah - - 18 Sep 1836 127 85 yrs - WEBBER James - - 12 Oct 1798 - - - WEBBER Joan - - 03 May 1801 - - - WEBBER Mary - - 10 Feb 1799 - - - WEBBER Mary - - 23 Jul 1820 34 58 yrs - WEBBER Thomas - - 20 Feb 1795 - - - WEBBER Thomas - - 31 Mar 1809 - - - WEBBER William - - 12 Aug 1798 - - - WEBBER William - - 14 Jun 1807 - - - WEBBER William - - 12 Oct 1834 113 42 yrs x Upton MILVERTON BAPTISMS WEBBER Amy 21 Jul 1753 WEBBER Ann 08 Mar 1746 WEBBER Ann 13 Jun 1813 WEBBER Arther 03 May 1661 WEBBER Betty 26 Feb 1773 WEBBER Caroline 16 Nov 1823 WEBBER Catharin 24 Feb 1684 WEBBER Charlotte 05 Jan 1797 WEBBER Deborah 21 Dec 1794 WEBBER Elias 24 Oct 1830 WEBBER Elizabeth 01 Aug 1852 WEBBER Elizabeth 03 Apr 1680 WEBBER Elizabeth 04 Nov 1792 WEBBER Elizabeth Bickley 11 Apr 1773 WEBBER Ellenor 15 Oct 1685 WEBBER Evan 17 Oct 1714 WEBBER Grace 16 Dec 1676 WEBBER Grace 28 Mar 1647 WEBBER Gratiana Elizabeth 02 Nov 1774 WEBBER Gyles 09 Apr 1654 WEBBER Harriet 18 Nov 1828 WEBBER Henery 20 Sep 1676 WEBBER Henry 14 Jan 1649 WEBBER James 16 Jul 1820 WEBBER Jane 08 Oct 1854 WEBBER Joan 27 Feb 1731 WEBBER Joan 09 Feb 1776 WEBBER Joane 14 Apr 1689 WEBBER Joane 24 Jan 1680 WEBBER John 31 May 1857 WEBBER John 09 Jun 1701 WEBBER John 11 Jan 1818 WEBBER John 12 Mar 1682 WEBBER John 14 May 1826 WEBBER Jonas 18 Jan 1688 WEBBER Levinia 30 Jul 1786 WEBBER Marianne 09 Jul 1826 WEBBER Mary 21 Jan 1789 WEBBER Mary 30 Mar 1783 WEBBER Mary 12 Aug 1750 WEBBER Mary 10 Oct 1690 WEBBER Mary 25 Jan 1678 WEBBER Mary 23 Jul 1693 WEBBER Mary 02 Mar 1679 WEBBER Mary 03 May 1707 WEBBER Mary Ann 13 Nov 1825 WEBBER Mary Anne 23 Mar 1772 WEBBER Oliver 05 Jun 1686 WEBBER Philop 23 Mar 1683 WEBBER Roberta 13 Jul 1690 WEBBER Roger 24 Apr 1642 WEBBER Roger 23 Mar 1651 WEBBER Roger 23 Apr 1693 WEBBER Sarah 20 Jun 1830 WEBBER Sarah 11 Jan 1685 WEBBER Sarah 26 Dec 1824 WEBBER Sarah Maria 05 Sep 1781 WEBBER Thomas 29 Aug 1697 WEBBER Thomas 20 Apr 1800 WEBBER Tomasine 26 Aug 1649 WEBBER Un-named 15 Mar 1689 WEBBER William 29 Jan 1843 WEBBER William 10 Jan 1653 WEBBER William 24 Feb 1828 WEBBER William 16 Dec 1790 WEBBER William 23 Dec 1733 WEBBER William 11 Jan 1818 WEBBER William 05 Aug 1810 WEBBER William 31 Jul 1756 WEBBER William 20 Oct 1606 WEBBER William 18 Apr 1682 WEBBER William 11 Aug 1811 WEBER Agnes 13 Dec 1657 WEBER Elizabeth 09 Nov 1673 WEBER Grace 30 Nov 1694 WEBER Jenatt 06 May 1660 WEBER Johan 25 Jan 1657 WEBER William 07 Apr 1682 SELWORTHY BAPTISMS Robert Webber James/Joan 4 1 1784 Joan Webber John/Mary 20 11 1796 Ann Webber Thomas/Betty 5 10 1806 James Webber Thomas/Elizabeth 2 10 1810 private baptism John Dyer Webber Thomas/Elizabeth 20 12 1812

Dear Chris, I have BALE and WEBBER in my tree, enclosing brief summary what I have on my Bales as below. I know some of them came to Glamorgan, Wales. Also connected to PARSONS family. My Somerset geography is not that good so I will check Wellington in relation to the locations in my tree. I found a relative living in Pembroke who gave me some of the info. and she was doing some work on the WEBBERS, so I will check to see what she has. The Webbers were connected with the Parsons family. Best regards, WENDY BALE FAMILY, Somerset 1. HENRY BALE [born c. 1763] married SARAH COLLARD [born c. 1771] 2 Sep 1789 by Banns, at Brompton Ralph ? Sarah Collard Baptised at Elworthy, 9 August 1767 ? Daughter of THOMAS COLLARD and ELIZABETH [nee WEBBER] who were married at Elworthy 10 April 1758 HENRY and SARAH BALE were aged 78 and 70 in 1841, at Lydeard St. Lawrence.. Henry was a Thatcher. parents of - 2. AMOS BALE, Master Thatcher. Born Tolland c. 1796., burial 19 April 1879 Baptised 24 January 1796 Tollamd.[written as Amos BALL] Burial 19 Apr 1879 Brompton Ralph aged 85 Resided New House, and Higher House, Brompton Ralph, Married SARAH EVENS [EVANS] at Wiveliscombe parish church by Banns 15 Jan 1823 Born Skilgate c. 1790, baptised Skilgate 21 Nov 1790 Buried Brompton Ralph 22 Oct 1874 aged 85 daughter of ABRHAM EVANS [Husbandman] and SARAH [nee BREWER] of Skilgate parents of - 3. JOHN BALE, Thatcher [and others] Baptised 25 Dec 1823 Brompton Ralph Married MARY ANN PARSONS at Brampton Ralph 16th July 1845 Baptised 7 July 1822, daughter of WILLIAM And MARTHA PARSONS of Battens Resided Brompton Rakph parents of - 4. SARAH BALE [and others] Baptised 26 Apr 1846, died 3rd Feb. 1942 aged 95 Married ROBERT COLES, Labourer, 26 April 1868 by Banns Witnesses: Isaac Burge, Mary Bale, John Coles, John Bale Resided Brompton Ralph Parents of - COLES Selina Baptised Mary 20 Oct 1872 Robert Sarah 217 labourer x Cullams Waters COLES William Henry Bale 27 Dec 1874 Robert Sarah 249 labourer - my grandfather. COLES Elizabeth Ellen 02 Sep 1877 Robert Sarah 288 labourer COLES Sydney George 14 Mar 1880 Robert Sarah 320 labourer x Leighs COLES James 25 Jun 1882 Robert Sarah 347 labourer COLES Robert 03 Jun 1888 Robert Sarah 390 labourer COLES Herbert Edgar 03 Jun 1888 Robert Sarah 391 labourer

As others are reposting their interests, here is one of mine. George HAYES was born about 1796, census returns suggest Chilton or Cossington, Somerset as birthplace. He was an agricultural labourer, and died 1874. George married a Mary Ann, surname unknown, who was born 1796 in Lympsham. The marriage did not take place in Lympsham, and Mary Ann died 1878. There are 5 children of this couple baptised in Lympsham: Jemima, 1830 Thomas, 1832 Jane, 1834 George, 1837 Charlotte, 1840 There may have been other, earlier children. I would like to find the marriage for George and Mary Ann, and where they lived prior to 1830. My interest is that George may have been the father of my relative Emma BINDING, born 1822 in Lympsham, and possibly one or more of her several siblings. Unfortunately no bastardy bonds survive for Lympsham. Any assistance much appreciated Marion

Wendy, I'm sure we've conversed before some time long ago re: OSMONDs. I've done some more work this past Easter but am still a long way off confirming a lot about my OSMOND line in Tintinhull area of Somerset. I'm fairly sure a lot of the children listed here could actually be cousins, in fact I know that Sarah Osmond that ended up in New Zealand was NOT actually a member of this family, but she did travel with George Osmond to Australia, and was living with the family. 1. JOHN OSMOND was born in 1792 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. He died on 17 Nov 1855 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. He married (1) MARTHA BROWN in 1813 in Martock, Somerset, England. She was born in 1792 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. She died on 07 Nov 1847 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. He married (2) ANN TRENCHARD on 30 May 1850, daughter of William Trenchard and Susana Unknown. She was born about 1801 in Hinton St George, Somerset, England. John Osmond and Martha Brown had the following children: i. CHARLES OSMOND was born on 09 Feb 1814 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. He died on 27 Mar 1915 in Wallarobba, NSW, Australia (Sevility (several years), Acute Bronchitis (3 days)). He married ANN NEWSON in 1838 in Jersey Island, UK, daughter of Isaac Isaire Newson and Elizabeth Unknown. She was born in 1812 in Stockland, Devon, England. She died on 09 Jan 1893 in Paterson, NSW, Australia (Influenza (7 days)). ii. CHARLOTTE OSMOND was born on 21 Feb 1819 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. She died on 10 Nov 1819 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. iii. JOHN OSMOND was born on 10 Dec 1820 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. He died on 14 Aug 1906 in Kangarilla, SA, Australia. He married ELIZABETH FUDGE on 04 Jul 1842 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. She was born in Jul 1820 in England. She died on 13 Apr 1906 in Kangarilla, SA, Australia. iv. MARY ANN OSMOND was born about 1821 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. v. JAMES OSMOND was born in 1822 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. He died on 31 Aug 1860 in Paterson, NSW, Australia (Head Injury in Riding Accident). He married ELIZABETH TUCKER in Jun 1853 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. She was born in 1822 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. vi. SARAH OSMOND was born in 1825 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. She died on 08 Apr 1888 in Ngaire, Taranaki, New Zealand. She married JAMES COLEMAN on 13 Feb 1850 in Paterson, NSW, Australia, son of Thomas Coleman and Rebecca Irons. He was born in 1827 in Inoburn, Bedfordshire, England. He died on 25 Nov 1885 in Eltham, Taranaki, New Zealand. vii. HANNAH OSMOND was born on 23 Feb 1826 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. She died on 21 Sep 1874 in Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, England. She married HENRY BROOKS on 28 Feb 1850 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England, son of John Brooks and Jane. He was born in 1827 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. viii. CHARLOTTE OSMOND was born on 26 Oct 1828 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. She married EDWARD ALLEN on 26 May 1851 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. He was born about 1829. He died on 12 Feb 1910 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. ix. GEORGE OSMOND was born on 06 Feb 1831 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. He died on 02 Nov 1899 in Paterson, NSW, Australia (Cancer of the Gullet). He married ELIZABETH BAKER on 09 Jun 1852 in Paterson, NSW, Australia. She was born in 1829 in Coker, Somerset, England. She died on 17 Oct 1926 in Paterson, NSW, Australia. x. ELIZABETH OSMOND was born about 1833 in Tintinhull, Somerset, England. Any further light anyone can shed on this family, including actual records from Tintinhull and surrounds would be so very much appreciated by myself and my mother. Steve Allen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2011 8:28 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [ENG-SOM] LIST OF SURNAMES - RE. QIET LIST I wiill re-send my list of surname and location interests just in case there are some rellies out there. COLES - Brompton Ralph, Stogumber, Wiveliscombe area/ BALE - ditto ROUTLEY - Stogumber BOND - Porlock and district OSMOND - Somerset, Dorset, Devonshire IND - ditto Best regards, WENDY ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message This email (including any attachments) is confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. It may be subject to legal or other professional privilege and contain copyright material. Any confidentiality or privilege is not waived or lost because this email has been sent to you by mistake. Access to this email or its attachments by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, copy or distribute this email or its attachments, nor take or omit to take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete it from your system and destroy any copies. We accept no liability for any loss or damage caused by this email or its attachments due to viruses, interference, interception, corruption or unauthorised access. Any views or opinions presented in this email or its attachments are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company.

Hi Listers, Would like any information re my ggg grand parents, please. GARDNER STAR bc1764, CHEDDAR, d1839 CHEDDAR, he was son of JOHN STAR and ANN BABER. SOPHIA DAY bc1780, death unknown. They had six children, all born CHEDDAR, but I have never found a marriage. Baptism index's refer to some of the children as base child of Sophia, and two children have GARDNER as part of their name. SOPHIA was the daughter of THOMAS DAY, a shoe maker I read the entries with interest. Patricia from Victoria, Australia.

Dear Steve, Here is what I have on my OSMONDS - I note the village of COKER in your tree, and my ancestors were there at one time, see below. My Gt. Grandfather was born there. It would be lovely I I could find some Osmond relatives, as the families lost touch about 100 years ago. Best regards, and thanks - I will study your tree to see if I can find any other links. Hope this mail is not too long for the List. WENDY OSMOND FAMILY 1st Generation - WILLIAM and ANN SUTTON BINGHAM Baptisms for WILLIAM and ANN OSMOND: 15th May 1785 - Susannah, daughter of William and Ann Osment 13th January 1788 - Mary & Elizabeth, daughters of William and Ann Osborne [?twins] 8th February 1789 - Samuel, son of William and Ann Osmond 24th March 1793 - Sarah, daughter of William and Ann Osmond 23rd February 1794 - Hannah, daughter of William and Ann Osmond [?died 1819] 19th October 1803 - William & Elizabeth, son & daughter of William and Ann Osmond [?twins] Unfortunately the Sutton Bingham marriage records have been lost for the period where William and Ann's marriage was likely to have taken place, but they probably married there. Samuel Osmond married Ann Ba[u]nton of East Coker 4th December 1809, Sutton Bingham. This entry was found in the Bishop's Transcripts for Sutton Bingham. Ann is likely to be daughter of Abraham and Elizabeth Baunton and baptised at Milborne Port 9th December 1790. An Abraham Baunton married Betty Lannem at Milborne Port 9th October 1783. There was one baptism for Samuel and Ann at Sutton Bingham - John, baptised 1810. 2nd Generation - SAMUEL and ANN 1841 SUTTON BINGHAM SOMERSET SAMUEL OSMOND (or Osmand) 50 Ag Lab Somerset Ann do. 50 Somerset Elizabeth do. 15 Flax Spr. Somerset William do. 14 Ag Lab Somerset GEORGE do. 12 Ag Lab Somerset [so born c. 1829] A few households further on were: Henry Osmand 20 Ag Lab Somerset Susannah do. 30 Do. Somerset John Stadle 15 Do. Somerset who may be related. 1851 SUTTON BINGHAM SOMERSET SAMUEL OSMOND of Sutton Bingham Somerset, born there c. 1788, Ag. Lab. Wife ANN born Milborne Port, Somerset, c. 1787 A son [born c. 1826] and a daughter [born c. 1825] were living with them in 1851, and the family were lodged at the No. 6, Poor House, Sutton Bingham. 1861 EAST COKER SOMERSET By 1861 Samuel was a widower aged 72 and lodging at No. 7 Fillys Cross Cottages, East Coker, in the household of Charles Slade, 37, a Sail Cloth Power Loom Weaver. Samuel was still working as an agricultural labourer. 1871 EAST COKER SOMERSET In 1871 Samuel was aged 82 and lodging at No. 8 Up Coker Street, East Coker, in the household of Charles Pavord, 72, a farm labourer. Samuel is described as ‘formerly a farm labourer’. He probably died between 1871 and 1881 as I cannot locate him 1881. The burial recorded at Sutton Bingham as follows must be him. SAMUEL OSMOND buried 14th Nov. 1873 aged 83. 3rd Generation - GEORGE and MARY GEORGE OSMOND, born c. 1829 at Sutton Bingham, Somerset [son of Samuel Osmond] WIFE MARY FRAMPTON, born c. 1832 at Corscombe [daughter of Thomas Frampton] Married 1850 Yeovil District, Vol. 10, Page 1007, April 15th at Sutton Bingham Parish Church by Banns, George aged 21, Mary aged 18. 1851 EAST COKER SOMERSET In 1851 George and Mary were living in East Coker, Somerset, aged 22 and 19, with son Henry aged 1 month, who was born in East Coker. Also in the household was Martha Frampton aged 12, described as a relation, probably a younger sister of Mary. 1861 WEST KNIGHTON DORSET 1861RG9-1355f98p4 17; Cottage; George OSMOND; Head; M; 32; Farm Labourer; Sutton Bingham Somerset; 17; Cottage; Mary OSMOND; Wife; M; 38; Wife; Corscombe Dorset 17; Cottage; Henry OSMOND; Son; U; 10; Son; Coker Dorset; 17; Cottage; Charles OSMOND; Son; U; 8; Scholar; Halstock Dorset; 17; Cottage; Jobe OSMOND; Son; U; 5; Scholar; Litleberry Dorset; [Bilberry?] 17; Cottage; Emely OSMOND; Dau; U; 3; Daughter; West Knighton Dorset; 17; Cottage; Fredrick J. OSMOND; Son; U; 10m ?; Son; Brapole Dorset; 1871 WOODSFORD DORSET In 1871 the family were living in a cottage at Woodsford, Dorset. George was an agricultural labourer. Son Henry born c. 1851 at East Coker, Somerset, ag. lab. Son Charles born c. 1853 at Halstock, Dorset, ag. lab. Daughter Emily born c. 1858 at Whitford, Dorset, scholar Son Walter born c. 1867 at Bockhampton, Dorset, scholar Daughter Roseanna born c. 1870 at Bockhampton, Dorset RG10/2012 Dorchester, Puddletown district 1881 WINTERBOURNE HERRINGSTONE DORSET In 1881 George and Mary were living in a cottage at Winterbourne Herringstone, Dorset, aged 50 and 46. Places of birth given same as 1851. 1891 WINTERBOURNE CARNE DORSET By 1891 George had died and Mary and family were living at Came Farm. Winterbourne Came. Dorset. Mary Osmond Head of Family. Widow. 54 years. Laundress. Born Corscombe. Rose H Osmond. Daughter. Single 21. Cook. Born Bockhampton. Alice Osmond. Daughter. Single 16. Born Herringstone. Edith Mary Osmond. Daughter. Single 14. School Monitor. West ?Knighton Edward Tunner or Gunner Lodger. Single Groom. 1901 CONGRESBURY, SOMERSET In 1901 Mary was a 66 year old widow, a retired laundress, living at Congresbury with her grandson Albion, 15, who was born at Queen Camel. It is likely that Albion is the boy who appears as Alfred James on the 1891 census, son of Henry and a brother of Walter Henry Osmond our grandfather. >From census entries and dates of birth, the family roamed the whole of Dorset and the border area of Somerset. A list of some of the dates and locations as follows 1829 Sutton Bingham, Somerset - 4 miles south of Yeovil [birthplace of George] 1832 Corscombe, Somerset - 9 miles west of Yeovil [birthplace of his wife Mary Frampton] 1851 East Coker, Somerset- 2 miles south of Yeovil 1853 Halstock, Dorset - on north west border with Somerset 1858 Whitford, Dorset - near Lyme Regis 1856 Little berry [?Bilberry] Dorset 1858 + 61 West Knighton & Whitford 1860 - 61 Brapole Dorset 1867-70 Bockhampton, near Dorchester - Thomas Hardy’s home village 1871 Woodsford, Puddletown, Dorchester 1875 Herringstone, Dorset 1881 Winterbourne Herringstone, Dorset [George & Mary] and Fordington [son Henry Osmond] 1886 Queen Camel, near Ilchester, Somerset, north of Yeovil [son Henry Osmond] 1891 Winterbourne Came, Dorset - Mary and children. 1891 Podimore Milton, Somerset - near Yeovil [son Henry Osmond] 1896 Westonzoyland, Somerset - north west of Bridgewater [grandson Walter Henry Osmond] 1901 Higher Cam, Dorchester [grandson Walter Henry Osmond] 1901 Congresbury Somerset - near Weston-super Mare - Mary and her grandson Albion. 1908 Clevedon - grandson Albion James Osmond, a baker 1909 Cadoxton, Barry, Glamorgan - grandson Walter Henry Osmond 11 children identified so far: Born c. 1851 Henry [our gt. grandfather] East Coker, Somerset c. 1852 Charles Halstock c. 1856 Job Bilberry - baptised 18.11.1855, Little Bredey, Dorset c. 1858 Emily Baptised 25.02.1860 West Knighton, Dorset c. 1860 Frederick J. Brapole - bapt. Frederick Thomas 15.02.1860 W. Knighton c. 1862 Caroline Alice Baptised 07.12.1860 West Knighton, Dorset c. 1867 Walter Bockhampton, Dorset c. 1869 Roseanna Bockhampton - bapt. Rosanna 11.07.1669, Stinsford, Dorset c. 1872 Agnes Woodsford c. 1875 Alice West Herringstone c. 1877 Edith Baptised Edith Mary 01.04.1877, West Knighton 4th Generation - The Two Marriages of Henry James [Harry] Osmond {A} HARRY / HENRY and ELIZABETH [1st wife] Henry [Harry] must have had a brief career as an engine driver c. 1881, when his wife and son are recorded on the Census living at Fordington in railway-owned property. Henry he had been an agricultural labourer in 1871 and by 1891 he had returned to a rural occupation as an agricultural groom. His marriage to Elizabeth Anne [Annie E.] Miller looks to have taken place in December 1877 in Sherbourne District, Volume 5a, Page 767. She died September quarter 1893, Sherborne District. 1891 PODIMORE MILTON In 1891 the family were at [Podymore] Podimore Milton, near Yeovil, as follows: RG12/1900, Page 16 HENRY OSMOND, head, aged 42, Groom, Domestic, born West Coker, Somerset ANNIE E. [Elizabeth Anne] aged 32, born Oborne, Sherborne, Dorset WALTER HENRY, son, aged 12, scholar, born Oborne [my grandfather]. Died WW1 EMILY J., daughter, aged 10, scholar, born Oborne. Nothing further found, many of that name. “ALBERT J., son, aged 5, scholar, born Queen Camel, Somerset [* ALBION JAMES] * From the Free BMDs ALBION JAMES OSMOND was born in the September quarter of 1885 in the Wincanton district, 5c429. In 1901 he was aged 15 and living with his grandmother Mary Osmond at Congresbury. His marriage is recorded 1st June 1908, when he married Elizabeth Ann Palmer at St. Anne’s, Hewish [Reg. 1908 / Sept / Axbridge 5c947], he was a baker of Clevedon. He is described as the son of HENRY JAMES OSMOND, Coachman. His bride was a spinster of Hewish, and the daughter of Joseph Henry Palmer, labourer. The witnesses were Walter James Amesbury and Emily Palmer. In 1911 Albion and his family lived at 118 Kenn Road, Clevedon, as follows. ALBION OSMOND, head, age given as 23, Baker Journeyman, born Queen Camel ELIZA ANN wife, married 3 years, age given as 26, born Hewish DORIS EMILY, daughter, aged 2, born Clevedon GORDON ALBION HENRY, son, aged 1 month, born Clevedon. Clearly he has deducted a few years from his age unless there is a transcription error. Clevedon Civic Society Roll of Honour [internet site] includes Albion’s name,. His details: Albion James Osmond Rfs 204998 Rifle Brigade 22 Treefield Road His wife Elizabeth was buried at Hewish on 16th February 1962 aged 78, then of Stoke Gifford. Albion’s ashes were interred in her grave on 9th May 1964. Some details of their children as below, provided by a contact. DORIS EMILY OSMOND. Birth Reg. 1909 / June / Long Ashton 5c539, baptised St. Andrew’s, Clevedon, 13 June 1909. Married WILLIAM F. A. POWELL Reg. 1931 / March / Long Ashton 5c938. GORDON ALBION HENRY OSMOND Registered as Gordon A. H. Osmond. 1911 / March / Long Ashton 5c506. Baptised ALBION GORDON HENRY OSMOND, St. Andrew’ s, Clevedon, 23 April 1911. Appears to have married twice. 1. [GWENDOLINE] TAYLOR 1931, by whom he had three children - IRENE 1932 - married Colin D. Skuse 1950 GLENDA D. 1935 GERALD A. 1940 2. MARGARET I. LAWSON, married 1953. No further details B] HENRY / HARRY and LAVINIA [2nd wife] 1901 UPLOWMAN DEVON In 1901 Henry is found at Uplowman near Tiverton in Devon, living in a steam roller and presumably working on road-building, and has deducted 5 years from his age.. His wife was not with him but he was married, to his second wife [Lavinia]. Since finding the family on the 1911 Census, I was able to locate Lavinia and 3 older children at Dorchester in 1901, where she gave her place of birth as Dawlish, Devon, but in 1911 said she was born in Cornwall. >From the Free BMDs, their marriage took place at Weymouth in June Quarter 1896. Vol. 5a p.686. Weymouth Reg. District, Henry OSMOND and Lavinia Melinda STEED. Children: WILLIAM HENRY OSMOND born Sept. quarter 1897, Vol. 5a, p. 302 * PHILADELPHIA OSMOND born Dec, quarter 1898, Vol. 5a, p. 297 EVELYN IRENE OSMOND born Dec. quarter 1899, Dorchester District, died Tiverton June 1901 LOUISA AMELIA A. OSMOND born June quarter 1908, Vo. 5c, p. 256a * A Philadelphia Osmond married HENRY C. IND at Tiverton, Devon, June quarter 1927, Vol. 5b, p. 1001 and I have found three births as follows. JOAN R. IND born Tiverton June 1928, Vol. 5b, p. 552 DAVID C. IND born Tiverton June 1930, Vol. 5n p. 528 ROGER L. IND born Surrey Mid Eastern Sept. 1936, Vol. 2a p. 317 In all three cases, the mother’s maiden name is given as OSMOND. I have found nothing further as yet on Philadelphia‘s siblings, WILLIAM HENRY and LOUISA AMELIA A., but there are a couple of possible marriages for Louisa in Tiverton, which is quite near Milverton, just over the border. 1911 MILVERTON, WELLINGTON SOMERSET Henry Osmond was living at Houndsmoor, Milverton,, with his second wife and children as follows. HENRY OSMOND, head, married, aged 63, engine driver, steam roller, born East Coker, Somerset. *LAVINIA OSMOND, wife, married 16 years, aged 47, born ?Palparis, Cornwall [should this be Polperro?] WILLIAM HENRY OSMOND, son, aged 14, errand boy, grocer born Came, Dorchester PHILADELPHIA OSMOND, daughter, aged 13, at school, born Came, Dorchester LOIUSA OSMOND, daughter, aged 3, born Milverton “STEED FAMILY found in Falmouth, Cornwall, in 1871 as follows: Transcript of Piece RG10/2294 Folio 19 Page 31 - 19 Berkely Vale 202,,1,William Steed,Head,M,35,,Coastguardsman,Plymouth Devon,, ,,,Caroline Steed,Wife,M,,30,,Plymouth Devon,, ,,,William H Steed,Son,,9,,Scholar,Plymouth Devon,, ,,,Clara M Steed,Dau,,,8,Scholar,Dawlish Devon,, ,,,Lavinia M Steed,Dau,,,6,Scholar,Dawlish Devon,, ,,,Thomas C Steed,Son,,4,,Scholar,Polperro Cornwall,, ,,,John Geo Steed,Son,,2,,,Polperro Cornwall,, ,,,Alfred Steed,Son,,1m,,,Falmouth Cornwall,, 1925 WINCANTON REGISTRATION DISTICT Death of HENRY JAMES OSMOND, age given as 71, June Quarter, 5c 445. Wincanton covers Wellington.

My interests are, BARRINGTON from Aller, Babcary, Kineton Mandeville. SPERRING from Wookey Hole. Regards, Ed Elks.

Dear Listers, Since others are providing surnames, I may as well add mine. HARTLAND - Langport & Taunton by 1861 in London (first names such as Aaron, James, William, Mary) BRYER - Taunton 1800s (first names such as Sarah, Charles, William), connected to POLLARD LEE - Langport 1800s (first names such as Elizabeth, George) If anyone out there would like to communicate, please do. Regards, Kathryn -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Alan Barnard Sent: Saturday, 5 November 2011 9:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [ENG-SOM] Quiet list Is there anybody out there? I joined the list last week and have not seen a message since. Alan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 2092/3996 - Release Date: 11/04/11

G.R.O. indexes indicate that the death of Rupert Laurence AXFORD was registered in the North Somerset registration district in Jan 1999 - he was 105 years of age. In view of this great age, I thought his passing may have warranted mention in the local press, perhaps an obit or funeral report, over and above the usual death announcement, so I enquired of the Weston-Super-Mare library and received the following reply:- "..............searched through the Weston Mercury from the end of December 1998 to the beginning of April 1999 initially looking for a death notice for an idea of what edition an obituary or funeral report would appear in. Unfortunately I was unable to find a death notice for Rupert Laurence Axford." The GRO refererence is all I have - I have no idea just where Rupert may have spent his last days. As he sits on an outer twig of my tree the expense of purchasing a death certificate is not really warranted. His birth was in Wiltshire, he married and lived in the London area however, being widowed in 1970, and I have no idea when or why he moved to the west country. Can anyone shed a little light? Stan L. Langley - West Norfolk U.K. Principal Interests; JICKLING; LANGLEY; RICHMOND; WAD(DE)LOW; W(H)ILLOCK. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 3456 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

I think it is because of the memberships to Ancestry and findmypast, etc etc. There doesnt seem to be a decline in the interest of Genealogy, more the reverse. Shame is on the lists you can meet living family and exchange records, hints and learn other aspects of genealogy you hadn't known. Yes there are books etc to do this but it isn't the same as one to one contact or with several others. I belong to our local Family History society where I view Ancestry public family trees and the mistakes I have come across regarding my Webber family in particular John Webber who was born 1803 in Stogursey, Somerset transported in 1845 and died in Tasmania. In someones tree yesterday. This same John Webber died in Devon, Somerset, United Kingdom. Not correct. I have spotted other families also with huge mistakes. You cannot discuss this with the owner of the Public tree unless you can afford a membership. I like the lists as you can have a discussion. Both owned by Ancestry I know but it is the content put there by the public and then picked up by others who share it to someone else that is the problem. I agree with Charani, start with the archives of all lists, you often pick up someone who is researching your line. Edie Richard WEBBER, Elizabeth TUCKER Stolford, Stogursey, Someset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charani" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-SOM] Quiet list > The archives are always a good place to start. You could even find > the answer to your question already. > > All the lists are getting quieter and quieter. Lists that once had > hundreds of posts a week are now lucky to get hundreds a month, > GenBrit is an example of that. Some once busy lists, such as AltGen, > have almost completely gone. Both of these are gatewayed to newgroups. > > No one seems to know why it's happening but it's been going on for a > long time now. It's generally believed to be due to the amount of > data online now but I think there's more to it than just that. > > -- > Charani (UK) > OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM > Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM > http://wsom-opc.org.uk > http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello How far back or early has the Bailey surname and its spelling variations been found in Somerset? Regards, Steade In a message dated 11/6/2011 9:01:45 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Far from being quiet now, there seems to be a real flurry of activity! Still, jumping on the bandwagon, here are my names: PORTER (In Bridgwater and earlier in Spaxton - can anyone help me pre 1700?)) BAILEY (in Enmore - researching family of Moses ca 1748) GUNNINGHAM (in Enmore - can anyone take me back further than 1700?) BAKER (I'd love to find more about the Robert in Bridgwater who married Elizabeth?? circa 1730) Steve ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Lynette Crocker, Have you ever come across an early spelling for Crocker similar to Cruqquor or Creve-coeur? Regards, Steade In a message dated 11/5/2011 5:17:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Diana I am going to spend a week at Taunton Records in June next year, contact me off list if you want me to look anything up. cousin Lynette Crocker -----Original Message----- From: Diana Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 11:00 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [ENG-SOM] My somerset interests around East Quantoxhead Hi List, As it is quiet I'll put out feelers again. My HUNT and CREECH families came from East Quantoxhead although some moved away from there as years went on. I would be interested in contacting anyone who is also related to those families or the DOBLE family from that area. Diana Crystal Mundaring Western Australia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1869 / Virus Database: 2092/4599 - Release Date: 11/05/11 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message