Hi Graham, I suppose that that was probably the best way of indicating the location of the gaol. Quite convenient really next to a major gateway easy to get prisoners to from out of town. What really interests me is how the justice system has changed in the last 200-300 years in this country, from severe punishment of offenders regardless of the offence to an almost supporting attitude, it seems, for crime and an almost total disregard for the victims of crime.Perhaps I am getting too cynical in my old age! I must try and find the Corporation prisoners books to cast a light on how the punishment system worked in the 1700s in Oswestry and see if I can find surnames that might, one day, be of interest to family historians. Have been to Canada this year Australia next stop. Will bring pictures of the "Green Inn". Best wishes Leon Graham Price <genetree@pacific.net.au> wrote: Hi Leon Bit wierd that, Newgate prison in Oswestry and Newgate prison in London! Wonder what the reason was for doing that? That will keep you up nights puzzling that out!!!! Cheers Graham ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

But a "gate" is not always a gate, in fact in street names it is more likely to be a thoroughfare. Thus Cowgate, Canongate, Fishergate, Castlegate etc. Newgate would be a new route or gait. There are plenty of examples in Carlisle, York, Edinburgh and Jedburgh that I can think of, they all come from the Old English word for a 'way'. For example, Jedburgh and Edinburgh both have a Canongate leading to an Abbey. The two sorts of gate/gait do tend to get mixed up and confused. And to mix things up even further, the actual gates in town walls were often called Ports. Judy On 16 Oct 2006, at 07:26, LEON KNAPPER wrote: > Quite convenient really next to a major gateway easy to get > prisoners to from out of town.

Hi Judy, I accept what you say, however in the case of Oswestry the gaol itself was actually part of a town gate which was called the New Gate. In the 17th century, over the gate were two rooms one was a guard room and the other used for the collection of tolls and tithes. Later one of these rooms was converted into a common gaol. Early maps show New Gate as being situated at the end of Church Street and the beginning of Cross Street also once known as Midle Street(the street between Church Street and Leg Street). In times past tolls were taken at the New Gate from buyers and sellers at fairs. This was usually imposed on folk living outside the town although inhabitants in certain townships outside the town were exempt from the yearly toll of four pence, a penny for each fair held. Oswestry once had four gates, New Gate, Willow Gate, Black Gate and Beatrice Gate corresponding to the four entrances to the town through the town walls.Little remains of these gates now nor of the town walls though evidence of the castle still remain. Best wishes Leon judy olsen <copywriter@tesco.net> wrote: But a "gate" is not always a gate, in fact in street names it is more likely to be a thoroughfare. Thus Cowgate, Canongate, Fishergate, Castlegate etc. Newgate would be a new route or gait. There are plenty of examples in Carlisle, York, Edinburgh and Jedburgh that I can think of, they all come from the Old English word for a 'way'. For example, Jedburgh and Edinburgh both have a Canongate leading to an Abbey. The two sorts of gate/gait do tend to get mixed up and confused. And to mix things up even further, the actual gates in town walls were often called Ports. Judy On 16 Oct 2006, at 07:26, LEON KNAPPER wrote: > Quite convenient really next to a major gateway easy to get > prisoners to from out of town. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Friends Not that surprising, established names such as Bridewell were also copied from London to other locations. Martin -----Original Message----- From: LEON KNAPPER [mailto:leon.knapper1@btinternet.com] Sent: 16 October 2006 08:27 To: eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-SHROP] PROBERT Shrewsbury. Connection with an ancient gatein Oswestry Hi Graham, I suppose that that was probably the best way of indicating the location of the gaol. Quite convenient really next to a major gateway easy to get prisoners to from out of town. What really interests me is how the justice system has changed in the last 200-300 years in this country, from severe punishment of offenders regardless of the offence to an almost supporting attitude, it seems, for crime and an almost total disregard for the victims of crime.Perhaps I am getting too cynical in my old age! I must try and find the Corporation prisoners books to cast a light on how the punishment system worked in the 1700s in Oswestry and see if I can find surnames that might, one day, be of interest to family historians. Have been to Canada this year Australia next stop. Will bring pictures of the "Green Inn". Best wishes Leon Graham Price <genetree@pacific.net.au> wrote: Hi Leon Bit wierd that, Newgate prison in Oswestry and Newgate prison in London! Wonder what the reason was for doing that? That will keep you up nights puzzling that out!!!! Cheers Graham ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.13.1/466 - Release Date: 07/10/2006