These `proven` DNA tests are a great puzzle to me in that I ask myself the question - How do I go about finding a source of DNA from my dead and totally inaccessible ancestors? And - how can I `prove` (with great emphasis on that word) my connection. You will understand the question in more depth when you see my signature at the end of this letter! Sorry to appear to be sooooooo sceptical. Keith Roberts. "Ross G. H. Cotton" <rgcotton@skylinc.net> wrote: Many years ago when I found I could go no further, with my William Cotton of Kenilworth WAR, I considered a Ring Search and when that didn't work I decided to start a ONS (One Name Study) for the surname that I was after. It paid off and was able to get back another 100 years into SAL. Now with DNA testing I was able to prove my connection back to the 1200's. Ross GH Cotton, Burlington ON CAN 905)639-2929 Genealogy of the COTTON surname is my Enigma. I haven't sent an attachment if the details are not mentioned above. Check out my Genealogy Web Page at www.skylinc.net/~rgcotton GOONS member responsible for tracking the family name COTTON, #1437 Coordinator for Cotton DNA testing Project, Worldwide, See http://home.comcast.net/~cottondna/ ----- Original Message ----- From: judy olsen To: eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-SHROP] Changing patterns re. research On 1 Oct 2006, at 14:13, Mellie wrote: > working on our own or on other peoples trees (my favourite habit > when stuck on my own) Ah but isnt this the best way to progress your own research! My partner says to me, you seem to think there is some great god of genealogy that will reward you - well of course I don't, I'm an atheist, but its odd how when you have been doing look-ups etc for other people suddenly you get a breakthrough on your own lines. The logical explanation is that when you are active on the lists people are more likely to respond to your own requests, but I did have one instance where I had gone to a library in Edinburgh specifically to do a look-up for someone, and then I picked up another book on the city and - presto - it fell open at a page which mentioned an address in Princes Street where a famous antiquarian had lived. Spookily, that was the address my ancestor gave when she married. I have still to work out the connection but this guy owned an estate in the parish where her father lived. The house has long since been knocked down and there is now a Marks and Spencer on the site. My partner says this explains why I am mystically drawn to spending money there. Judy ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Keith Roberts - Colwyn Bay, N. Wales. *~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~* www.tribalpages/tribes/kr2877 www.byegones.co.uk

Keith and any others. The answer to your question is very simple. DNA Y-Chromosome testing is used for Males, and mtDNA testing is used for Females. Since you are a male, I assume, in your body are the same Y-Chromosomes that are or were in your fathers body, and also in your G fathers body, etc. for many, many years, and they are the same in your male blood related cousins. Over hundreds of years there are very few differences (mutations) in the Alleles (values) for the various (usually 43) Markers tested. If you go to the WebSite listed below for the Cotton DNA results of persons that have already been tested, (its free) you will see many different families that have been proven to be connected. Most of them did not know of the others existance. Just Click on any Family, mine is Family 3, to see the persons tested and their lineage, to the point where they are connected. After selecting a Family to review, slide down and click on Results to see the test results for the family you want. If you check closely, my 1st cousin, my 3 cousin and I have identical values showing 100% match. When slight differences (mutations) show up the connection between the persons is further back, and the number of generations can be estimated. Read the Purpose and Method for a better understanding of DNA Y-Chromosome testing. DNA does not, in itself, provide you with the names of your ancestors, but it does lead you where to research next for your direct ancestral lineage. Over 35 years of researching my genealogy I have never found anything that I did not have to pay for. And since I'm a male I'm not looking for a female ancestor, using DNA Y-Chromosome testing. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask, send me an EMail and I'll try to answer them. And then there are the sceptics? I truly hope by this explanation I'll find a Cotton, with ancestors from SAL that wants to see if he is related to me? Ross GH Cotton, Burlington ON CAN 905)639-2929 Genealogy of the COTTON surname is my Enigma. I haven't sent an attachment if the details are not mentioned above. Check out my Genealogy Web Page at www.skylinc.net/~rgcotton GOONS member responsible for tracking the family name COTTON, #1437 Coordinator for Cotton DNA testing Project, Worldwide, See http://home.comcast.net/~cottondna/ ----- Original Message ----- From: KEITH ROBERTS To: eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-SHROP] Changing patterns re. research These `proven` DNA tests are a great puzzle to me in that I ask myself the question - How do I go about finding a source of DNA from my dead and totally inaccessible ancestors? And - how can I `prove` (with great emphasis on that word) my connection. You will understand the question in more depth when you see my signature at the end of this letter! Sorry to appear to be sooooooo sceptical. Keith Roberts. "Ross G. H. Cotton" <rgcotton@skylinc.net> wrote: Many years ago when I found I could go no further, with my William Cotton of Kenilworth WAR, I considered a Ring Search and when that didn't work I decided to start a ONS (One Name Study) for the surname that I was after. It paid off and was able to get back another 100 years into SAL. Now with DNA testing I was able to prove my connection back to the 1200's. Ross GH Cotton, Burlington ON CAN 905)639-2929 Genealogy of the COTTON surname is my Enigma. I haven't sent an attachment if the details are not mentioned above. Check out my Genealogy Web Page at www.skylinc.net/~rgcotton GOONS member responsible for tracking the family name COTTON, #1437 Coordinator for Cotton DNA testing Project, Worldwide, See http://home.comcast.net/~cottondna/ ----- Original Message ----- From: judy olsen To: eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-SHROP] Changing patterns re. research On 1 Oct 2006, at 14:13, Mellie wrote: > working on our own or on other peoples trees (my favourite habit > when stuck on my own) Ah but isnt this the best way to progress your own research! My partner says to me, you seem to think there is some great god of genealogy that will reward you - well of course I don't, I'm an atheist, but its odd how when you have been doing look-ups etc for other people suddenly you get a breakthrough on your own lines. The logical explanation is that when you are active on the lists people are more likely to respond to your own requests, but I did have one instance where I had gone to a library in Edinburgh specifically to do a look-up for someone, and then I picked up another book on the city and - presto - it fell open at a page which mentioned an address in Princes Street where a famous antiquarian had lived. Spookily, that was the address my ancestor gave when she married. I have still to work out the connection but this guy owned an estate in the parish where her father lived. The house has long since been knocked down and there is now a Marks and Spencer on the site. My partner says this explains why I am mystically drawn to spending money there. Judy ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Keith Roberts - Colwyn Bay, N. Wales. *~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~* www.tribalpages/tribes/kr2877 www.byegones.co.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

KEITH ROBERTS wrote: > These `proven` DNA tests are a great puzzle to me in that I ask > myself the question - How do I go about finding a source of DNA > from my dead and totally inaccessible ancestors? And - how can I > `prove` (with great emphasis on that word) my connection. You will > understand the question in more depth when you see my signature at > the end of this letter! Sorry to appear to be sooooooo sceptical. You aren't the only one who's so sceptical about DNA testing. I'm afraid (at the risk of incurring the wrath of the pro-DNA testers) that I regard it as a gimmick, the latest "must have". There's no way DNA testing will "prove" that I'm a descendent of Alice ARUNDELL (b c1420) -- Charani (UK)

>>These `proven` DNA tests are a great puzzle to me in that I ask myself the question - How do I go about finding a source of DNA from my dead and totally inaccessible ancestors? And - how can I `prove` (with great emphasis on that word) my connection. You will understand the question in more depth when you see my signature at the end of this letter! Sorry to appear to be sooooooo sceptical. Keith Roberts.<< with the surname Roberts you mean? I understand yours and anyone elses scepticism, as unless we have DNA to compare to how do we "know"? If I understand the DNA projects correctly, DNA is compared against each other, in that those that are related will carry some "same strands" and lineage is proven in the usual genalogical way of the paper trail! DNA proves both paternal and maternal connections, in the same way as it is used for Paternity testing today, for example, you may believe that you have a connection to a particular branch of your family name, your DNA would be compared to someone who has documented proof of that connection, the comparison would Prove that you are or are not related to the person of whom your DNA has been compared with. It, Of course cannot answer some of our questions where there are gaping holes of a generation or 2 that we can't find, however, if there is lineage from one of those that we can be compared with, it can prove a connection somewhere if we can just find the elusive ancestor. alternatively we can go around exhuming bodies I guess! or maybe not! DNA testing is a very simple and painless process, and the best DNA is from the cells inside the mouth, so a simple "swab" from the inside of the cheek is sufficient. Mellie Why Does My Coat Of Arms Have Buckles At The Back?

Like you Keith I am also sceptical,although perhaps I would believe in it a bit more if it was free! Regards William Russell Jones Cefn Mawr Wrexham. ----- Original Message ----- From: "KEITH ROBERTS" <skrimhe@btinternet.com> To: <eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-SHROP] Changing patterns re. research > These `proven` DNA tests are a great puzzle to me in that I ask myself the > question - How do I go about finding a source of DNA from my dead and > totally inaccessible ancestors? And - how can I `prove` (with great > emphasis on that word) my connection. > You will understand the question in more depth when you see my signature > at the end of this letter! Sorry to appear to be sooooooo sceptical. > > Keith Roberts. > > "Ross G. H. Cotton" <rgcotton@skylinc.net> wrote: > Many years ago when I found I could go no further, with my William Cotton > of Kenilworth WAR, I considered a Ring Search and when that didn't work I > decided to start a ONS (One Name Study) for the surname that I was after. > It paid off and was able to get back another 100 years into SAL. Now with > DNA testing I was able to prove my connection back to the 1200's. > > > Ross GH Cotton, Burlington ON CAN 905)639-2929 > Genealogy of the COTTON surname is my Enigma. > I haven't sent an attachment if the details are not mentioned above. > > Check out my Genealogy Web Page at www.skylinc.net/~rgcotton > > GOONS member responsible for tracking the family name COTTON, #1437 > Coordinator for Cotton DNA testing Project, Worldwide, > See http://home.comcast.net/~cottondna/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: judy olsen > To: eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 1:36 PM > Subject: Re: [ENG-SHROP] Changing patterns re. research > > > > On 1 Oct 2006, at 14:13, Mellie wrote: > >> working on our own or on other peoples trees (my favourite habit >> when stuck on my own) > > > Ah but isnt this the best way to progress your own research! My > partner says to me, you seem to think there is some great god of > genealogy that will reward you - well of course I don't, I'm an > atheist, but its odd how when you have been doing look-ups etc for > other people suddenly you get a breakthrough on your own lines. The > logical explanation is that when you are active on the lists people > are more likely to respond to your own requests, but I did have one > instance where I had gone to a library in Edinburgh specifically to > do a look-up for someone, and then I picked up another book on the > city and - presto - it fell open at a page which mentioned an address > in Princes Street where a famous antiquarian had lived. Spookily, > that was the address my ancestor gave when she married. I have still > to work out the connection but this guy owned an estate in the parish > where her father lived. > > The house has long since been knocked down and there is now a Marks > and Spencer on the site. My partner says this explains why I am > mystically drawn to spending money there. > > Judy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Keith Roberts - Colwyn Bay, N. Wales. > *~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~* > www.tribalpages/tribes/kr2877 > www.byegones.co.uk > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

> Like you Keith I am also sceptical,although perhaps I would believe in it > a > bit more if it was free! ;-)) Another item that bothers me greatly: Several times now I have read that persons living today descend from a common ancestor who lived in say the year 950 or even earlier. Now we all know that once you get back to the late 1500's (if you can get there in the first place), the documentation "dries up" and you can no longer follow a paper trail to the next ancestor. So what's the use of knowing that you were related to someone else 1000 or more years ago? There's always going to be a void that will never be filled in. Besides, I really do not consider DNA testing as part of genealogy - it is genetics! Esther

>>Now we all know that once you get back to the late 1500's (if you can get there in the first place), the documentation "dries up" and you can no longer follow a paper trail to the next ancestor. So what's the use of knowing that you were related to someone else 1000 or more years ago? There's always going to be a void that will never be filled in. Besides, I really do not consider DNA testing as part of genealogy - it is genetics! Esther << I Have 2 lines that do go back into the 1500's, and they are very closely documented, they were in rural areas and wealthy folk, hence the paper trail, but you are quite right that for the most part we cant get back that far, Hell I been stuck in the late 1800's with one line since I started and I doubt its going to "progress" (backwards) I do have to disagree with your final comment though, DNA not part of genealogy, because it is genetics LOL Genealogy is basically the study of genes, and DNA testing is the comparison of those genes LOL genetics, genes, genealogy, do you see a pattern in the words? Mellie Why Does My Coat Of Arms Have Buckles At The Back?

Like you Keith I am also sceptical,although perhaps I would believe in it a bit more if it was free! Regards William Russell Jones Cefn Mawr Wrexham. I omitted to add, that there is a painful part, the COST LOL, if it compares to paternity testing it certainly is not cheap! Mellie Why Does My Coat Of Arms Have Buckles At The Back?