Thanks for the information Leon. I assume that there was 'one of that ilk' in the local area at the time then but not your line. The UCL site is great fun - I've used it for many of my more unusual surnames. Jones and Roberts, unfortunately are a little bit more demanding :-))) Judy

This arrived today - now I am confused!!! This is how I found a connection: http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/documentxsl.asp?com=1&i=0&nbKey=1&stylesheet=xsl\A2A_com.xsl&keyword=john%20plimmer&properties=0601 I'll keep you posted best wishes > > From: "Roger Logan" <roger.logan@virgin.net> > Date: 2006/04/11 Tue AM 07:53:42 BST > To: <ian.plimmer@ntlworld.com> > Subject: History > > Hello Ian > > Thank you for your e-mail of 10th April 2006 re the above sent to Foresters Head Office which has been passed to me for response. I am one of the Trustees of The Foresters Heritage Trust (FHT), a registered Charity, which deals with matters of an historic or heritage nature relating to the Ancient Order of Foresters (AOF). > > The Ancient Order of Foresters was established in August 1834, so that it was not possible for your ancestor to have been a member during the 1700's. If you have a specific reference relating to, or suggesting, his membership, I could dig deeper to see what I can find. For your information appended below is a brief outline of the history and development of the AOF. > > > From its formation in 1834 up until three years ago, the AOF was, in the UK, > a decentralised sickness and death benefit society. Branches, called Courts, > operated, within the terms of the Friendly Society Acts and the General Laws > of the Order, on a virtually autonomous basis. Each local Court was > responsible for its own administration and financial activities. Members > determined the levels of contributions and benefits to be offered, although > there was increasing uniformity across the country later in the 19th > century. This, it should be noted, was all voluntary, before the > introduction of the first UK state imposed sickness insurance scheme in > 1912. > > The two major changes in the 20th century were the granting of 'approved > society' status to the AOF in the wake of the 1911 National Insurance Act, > and then, just under 40 years later, the advent of the' welfare state' when > the society lost the role of administering the state insurance scheme and > reverted to being entirely voluntary. A strong social spirit was maintained, > but for a wide range of reasons, declining numbers reduced the number of > Courts and the once ubiquitous presence of the Order across the UK. There > are still over 250 Courts, now grouped into 18 Areas. > > Court members elected officers to run the Court from among their fellow > members, so that many local people were, at one time or another, holding > positions of responsibility within a Court. Regrettably there never was a > central membership register for the AOF, so that identifying an individual > name is extremely difficult. However some local records have survived and > are held in our Archive. From these, and from certain centrally issued > publications, such as the Order periodical, the Foresters' Miscellany, and > an annual Directory of all Courts and districts, we can sometimes supply > information. > > I hope that the above is of some interest. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any comments on the above, or any other query. > > Best wishes > > Roger > > Dr Roger Logan BA MA PhD > for The Foresters Heritage Trust > Southampton > England > > ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information

Hi Judy, Well this is a first for me too. Knapper in relation to FH research in Shropshire. Yes Knapper is a relatively uncommon surname except in the Potteries in Staffordshire, which is where my father came from and where previous generations of my Knappers lived. Great great grandfather William Knapper was a coal miner and my great grandfather was for a time before he started making sweets in Stoke on Trent. The surname does occur considerably in Western European countries from Norway to France and dad always maintains that our Knappers came over to help Oliver Cromwell bring democracy to this country. I think it is more likely that my ancestors came from the Continent to work in the mining and pottery industries. The University College London (UCL) has carried out work on distribution of surnames in Great Britain, both current and historic. Its website allows users to search the databases to trace the geography and history of their family names. http://www.spatial-literacy.org/UCLnames/default.aspx I have done this and yes, it confirms the greatest concentration of Knappers in 1881 and even today is in the Stoke on Trent area. Originally from Wales, I met my wife at college and came to work in Shropshire where her surname Pugh is quite common and where her ancestors have lived since the mid 1700s. Best wishes Leon from Oswestry

Listers might be interested in the reply below that I had from Jim Hawkins of BBC Radio Shropshire. Obviously those of us who are interested in hearing similar programmes in the future, may have to depend on other listers letting us know when a similar programme will be broadcast. Maybe if a number of the people who listened on Monday let them know how interesting the programme was they may make it regular. "Thanks for your email. We do a local-history phone-in occasionally, every few months or so, on an infuriatingly-irregular basis! All the best - Jim Hawkins Presenter/producer BBC Radio Shropshire 96, 95, 90 & 104.1 FM and DAB Digital Radio 01743 237035 jim.hawkins@bbc.co.uk bbc.co.uk/shropshire" A lister looking forward to hearing about the next programme! Regards Bryan A Curran Flagstaff, Hamilton New Zealand http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~origins/index.html

Hi everyone, Posting my research surnames: Martha Maria Pritchard, 10.3.1883, Wellington, Shropshire, James Birch, possible 1884, Madeley, Shropshire. (His birth place could even be Shifnal). The above were my grandparents. Kris, W.A.

Hi and especially Leon! I've been reading through some pages of my great grandfather's diary (1900) where he refers to a Knapper in various entries. He seemed to work with this person or in his team. Henry Roberts was a coal miner, mainly in the Chirk- Bersham area. The only Knapper that I have come across before is Leon. Was it a not unusual name? Judy

Many thanks to Anouska, Mike and Keith for your helpful suggestions, and especially to Keith for the images sent off list. Three questions for Keith if I may, please: 1. Are the images downloaded from Ancestry? 2. Do the numbers in the top right-hand of the Description of the Enumeration District pages run with the page numbers for the actual entries, please? 3. Can you expand please on "It's easy enough to trawl through the district looking for names". When I trawled through the microfilm in 1980 I was new and inexperienced, and didn't note down all the piece/folio/page numbers. I recently used Ancestry (which can be used free of charge at Worcester Record Office) to find these, but unfortunately a few of the people that I had seen previously do not appear in search results - presumably they have been mis-transcribed. I got the impression that images could only be accessed from the search results, and that it is not possible to scroll from one page to the next - perhaps I am wrong? Regards John

Thank you for posting the message about the programme on BBC Radio Shropshire. The programme is coming through loud and clear and I'm looking forward to listening to the family history programme shortly. Good to hear its fine and sunny. It is showery here in Hamilton, New Zealand. Pity about the rugby match Shropshire! Bryan A Curran Flagstaff, Hamilton New Zealand http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~origins/index.html ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Dave Jassie" <dave.jassie@ntlworld.com> | To: <ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com> | Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 11:38 PM | Subject: [ENG-SHROP] Fw: {not a subscriber} Family History on Radio | Shropshire

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Jassie" <dave.jassie@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 11:38 PM Subject: [ENG-SHROP] Fw: {not a subscriber} Family History on Radio Shropshire | | From: "Michael J Hulme" <mike@mjhulme.fsnet.co.uk> | To: <ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com> | {not a subscriber} | | | Hello Everyone | | If any of you are able to listen to BBC Radio Shropshire on Monday 10th | April between 10am and 11am (British Summer Time) they are having a | Family History phone in for listeners. | | If you don't live in Shropshire you can listen on the Internet at | http://www.bbc.co.uk/shropshire/ then click on the Listen Live link at | the bottom right hand corner. | | You can of course e-mail questions in if you live outside the UK. | | Mike | | | | ==== ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS Mailing List ==== | TO post a message to the list for *every* subscriber to read, please *always* use - | ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com | | ============================== | View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find | marriage announcements and more. Learn more: | http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx | |

Many thanks to Bryan for checking on the airing of this program. Anne in Aurora IL

At 02:13 PM 10/04/2006, Pat Marshall wrote: >I noticed while trolling through the archived mail that there are a few of >you researching the name FOULKES/FOULKS. >I have a Thomas Foulkes born Kennerley, Shropshire c 1800-01 Hi Pat Kennerley is most likely Kinnerley near Ruyton of the Eleven Towns, also not that far from Oswestry, unless it be Kenley near Shrewsbury which I doubt. Kinnerley registers and Bishops transcripts up to 1925 are available for searching and viewing through the Latter Day Saints folk at any of their chapel libraries throughout the world. Check out your local telephone book. If you go to www.familysearch.org, click into the library catalog and enter as place, Kinnerley, you will find a host of available records. Good luck Graham

At 08:39 PM 9/04/2006, Michael J Hulme wrote: > >>>>> The first project below has been going for a few years.>>>>> Very nice. So far looking good. I see they are having tombstone inscriptions recorded in the near future. So, that's a start. Doesn't help Marjorie much with her wanting things online though - no mention of parish records being "done," so unless you live within a reasonable mileage, bad luck. In 1992 the CofE proscribed that all parish registers be closed and deposited within a record office, but this did not apply to marriages from 1837 onwards, (don't seem to mention baptisms/burials) even though many of these registers have been handed over. Pontesbury, it seems, is not the only parish around the country that still holds original registers. Also, the IGI purports to have christenings and marriages for Pontesbury 1538-1882 if you are interested. 1538-1812 are also held with the Society of Genealogists. However, microfilms of these regs and BTs up to 1974 (wow!) can be obtained through any LDS library in any country for viewing. So all is not lost Marjorie, as long as you live within reasonable distance from an LDS library! Good luck Graham Melbourne Oz

On thinking about it, the records are probably still with the Church because the books have not been filled up yet? Maybe they dont have many events happening. Might be a good idea for someone who has the authority to approach him, find out if there are filled books sitting there. The minister was very approachable and helpful to me. I might add that some buriel records are still with Longden on Tern church too. I recently emailed the minister there but have had no reply. Sandi -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/298 - Release Date: 30/03/2006

Thank you for highlighting this broadcast. I did manage to listen to it from North Hertfordshire using my computer. The queries answered may have explained why I cannot find my great grandfather, George Rickards (b c 1870), in the 1901 census. His wife and children are at home in Ludlow but there is no Head of the household. He is a slippery devil as I have not been able to locate him for sure anywhere except on his children's birth and his own marriage certificates. I was hoping for a census entry with his family to identify his place of birth but it seems that he may well have been away at war. Surprising but possible. He was a miner/excavator, apparently, and I know that he died in Burghill Mental Asylum before December 1944, when his remains were moved from Burghill by one of his children to Hereford cemetery. Any further help in tracking this rascal down would be much appreciated. Not a nice man, I gather! Kind regards Rosemary ----- Original Message ----- From: "origins" <origins@ihug.co.nz> To: <ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 10 April, 2006 10:06 Subject: [ENG-SHROP] Re: Family History on Radio Shropshire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Jassie" <dave.jassie@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 11:38 PM Subject: [ENG-SHROP] Fw: {not a subscriber} Family History on Radio Shropshire | | From: "Michael J Hulme" <mike@mjhulme.fsnet.co.uk> | To: <ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com> | {not a subscriber} | | | Hello Everyone | | If any of you are able to listen to BBC Radio Shropshire on Monday 10th | April between 10am and 11am (British Summer Time) they are having a | Family History phone in for listeners. | | If you don't live in Shropshire you can listen on the Internet at | http://www.bbc.co.uk/shropshire/ then click on the Listen Live link at | the bottom right hand corner. | | You can of course e-mail questions in if you live outside the UK. | | Mike | | | | ==== ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS Mailing List ==== | TO post a message to the list for *every* subscriber to read, please *always* use - | ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com | | ============================== | View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find | marriage announcements and more. Learn more: | http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx | | ==== ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS Mailing List ==== TIPS on list etiquette and how to maximise your chances of receiving help can be found at ~ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donaghmore1/expectations.htm ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Just had a snoop on the net and discovered this - may interest others too I hope Ian :) http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/archon/searches/locresult_details.asp?LR=1811 > > From: Michael J Hulme <mike@mjhulme.freeserve.co.uk> > Date: 2006/04/09 Sun PM 07:40:48 BST > To: ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ENG-SHROP] Friendly Society > > Hello Ian > > I have just got the address details from the BT web site. There was an > active branch in Shrewsbury about twenty years ago but I don't know if > it is still going. > > Ancient Order Of Foresters Friendly Society > Tel: 01727 853960 > 13 Beaconsfield Rd, St Albans AL1 3RD > > Mike > ______________________________________________________ > > > > ian.plimmer@ntlworld.com wrote: > > Does anyone have any knowledge of the Ancient Order of Foresters Friendly Society, Shrewsbury District? > > > > Thanks > > > > Ian > > > > ;) > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > Email sent from www.ntlworld.com > > Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software > > Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information > > > > > > ==== ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS Mailing List ==== > > List archives can found at ~ > > Searchable ~ http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS > > Threaded ~ http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS > > > > ============================== > > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS Mailing List ==== > WHY not visit the Shropshire Genuki site. > It really is a mine of information. > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SAL/ > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information

I noticed while trolling through the archived mail that there are a few of you researching the name FOULKES/FOULKS. I have a Thomas Foulkes born Kennerley, Shropshire c 1800-01, according to census data that I have on him. He married an Ann Darwent of Wooten Wawen, Warwickshire 11 Mar 1827 in Leamington Prior, Warwickshire and had several children, all born in Leamington Prior. Ann died 1851-1861 & Thomas died 1861-1871, since he doesn't seem to appear on the 1871 census. Would anyone know of this Thomas and perhaps who his parents might be? Pat Marshall Ontario, Canada

After a number of years researching I finally have proof that my great-grandmother Elizabeth Darrall (nee Martin) who married William Darrall on the 15th August 1866 (I have their marriage certificate) had a sister Sarah. Sarah was probably born around 1842 and it is likely that she, and her family, lived in Hollywell Lane, Dawley. By 1902, Sarah, now married to a Simeon FERREDAY, was living in Wellington, New Zealand and appears as an executor to William Darrall's Will. Upon William's death in 1908 Sarah and her husband (now poorly) were living apart in Chester, England. To locate the FERREDAY family I have searched the 1851 Dawley, 1841 Madeley and 1841 Wellington (Shropshire) census finally locating a family by the same name (but not Simeon - he was probably not born at this time) in the latter. They were living in Jarrett's Lane in 1841. Unfortunately, I don't readily have access to the later cencii for Wellington. I have four questions as follows:- (1) Does anyone have the FERREDAY name as part of their history? (2) Does Simon FERREDAY appear in later Wellington cencii and what was his job after his schooling? (3) Can anyone tell me when they married and where? (4) I am also interested in when they sailed from England to New Zealand (this could be an impossible question). Here's hoping!! Paul Darrall New Zealand

Sorry for duplicate message. Anouska

John, Ancestry gives a good account of the description of the enumerators route or at least the enumerator or his boss does. Here`s an example from the 1871 census and the same applies to all the others. There are two descriptions. I shall type a few words of one of the descriptions and the remainder I shall send to you via attachment as its a bit long drawn out and anyway its much nicer to see the original handwriting. `All that part of the parish of Prees which comprises all that part of the township of Whixall in the said parish of Prees which lies north of the road leading from Cotton turnpike gate to Ellesmere being bounded on the north by Bettisfield and the Fens.` As I said, in the 1871 there are two districts - 11 and 12 and in the first there are 20 enumeration sheets and 15 in the other. Give me some names and I will see what I can find for you and send the images on. Keith Roberts. ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Yahoo" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 4:16 PM >> Subject: [ENG-SHROP] Census Returns >> >> >>> Hi list >>> >>> One possibly for Mike or Graham. >>> >>> When I traced my family back through the 1841 -1871 censuses in 1980 it >>> was >>> a case of scrolling through reels of microfilm at what was then the >>> Local >>> Studies Library in, I seem to recall, temporary accommodation in St >>> Mary's >>> Church Hall. My people lived in the country, so no street names and >>> numbers. >>> The area is identified on a sheet at the beginning of a section which >>> reads, >>> for example, "All that part of the Township of Whixall in the Parish of >>> Prees which lies west of the road leading from Cotton Turnpike Gate to >>> Ellesmere including 11 houses on the N.E. side of the said road between >>> Cotton Gate and Bostocks Hall which 11 houses are up to the road side". >>> I >>> noted a few of these, but by no means all - in most cases only the name >>> of >>> the township. >>> >>> At some time in the future I would like to see where, or whereabouts, my >>> ancestors actually lived. >>> >>> Does anyone know >>> a) if these "lead" pages can be accessed through Ancestry >>> b) if so, how >>> c) if it is then possible to identify which pages each refers to >>> >>> and as a last resort >>> d) if and where the rolls of microfilm are still available? >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ==== ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS Mailing List ==== >>> The 'SUBJECT' line is the first thing others will see - use it wisely. >>> PLEASE do not just click on 'reply' - Change the subject line to >>> describe more accurately the subject of *your* message. >>> This is particularly important when replying to a 'Digest' >>> >>> ============================== >>> Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. >>> New content added every business day. Learn more: >>> http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >>> >>> >> >> > > ==== ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS Mailing List ==== The 'SUBJECT' line is the first thing others will see - use it wisely. PLEASE do not just click on 'reply' - Change the subject line to describe more accurately the subject of *your* message. This is particularly important when replying to a 'Digest' ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Hi John, If you have access to Ancestry there is a search option where you put in name, year of birth and place of birth etc. There is another option where you can click on the county from a list of all the counties. This then takes you into a list of towns within that county, so you can click on that which gives you a list of smaller places. When you finally find the small village or area you want, you will get two options:- 1. View description of enumeration district 2. list of districts available Also the rolls of census films/fiche are still usually available in the Record Offices of the census area, which can be a town, or the county record office. Hope that helps, Anouska ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Yahoo" <ejohnsands@yahoo.co.uk> >> To: <ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 4:16 PM >> Subject: [ENG-SHROP] Census Returns >> >> >>> Hi list >>> >>> One possibly for Mike or Graham. >>> >>> When I traced my family back through the 1841 -1871 censuses in 1980 it >>> was >>> a case of scrolling through reels of microfilm at what was then the >>> Local >>> Studies Library in, I seem to recall, temporary accommodation in St >>> Mary's >>> Church Hall. My people lived in the country, so no street names and >>> numbers. >>> The area is identified on a sheet at the beginning of a section which >>> reads, >>> for example, "All that part of the Township of Whixall in the Parish of >>> Prees which lies west of the road leading from Cotton Turnpike Gate to >>> Ellesmere including 11 houses on the N.E. side of the said road between >>> Cotton Gate and Bostocks Hall which 11 houses are up to the road side". >>> I >>> noted a few of these, but by no means all - in most cases only the name >>> of >>> the township. >>> >>> At some time in the future I would like to see where, or whereabouts, my >>> ancestors actually lived. >>> >>> Does anyone know >>> a) if these "lead" pages can be accessed through Ancestry >>> b) if so, how >>> c) if it is then possible to identify which pages each refers to >>> >>> and as a last resort >>> d) if and where the rolls of microfilm are still available? >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ==== ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS Mailing List ==== >>> The 'SUBJECT' line is the first thing others will see - use it wisely. >>> PLEASE do not just click on 'reply' - Change the subject line to >>> describe more accurately the subject of *your* message. >>> This is particularly important when replying to a 'Digest' >>> >>> ============================== >>> Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. >>> New content added every business day. Learn more: >>> http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >>> >>> >> >> > >