Hello Anne I have looked through the printed copy of the Preston Gubbals parish register but there is no trace of a Baptism for a John BILLINGTON at any date up to 1812. A John BILLINGTON was married by Licence at Preston Gubbals on 27 Nov 1763 to Elizth MORETON of Battlefield [parish]. There is a burial for a John BILLINGTON at Preston Gubbals on 22 July 1803 [no age or other information given]. You will need to search the surrounding parishes for the complete span of possible birth years which you have calculated from your various sources. Mike ______________________________________________________ AWDmom@aol.com wrote: > I am trying to figure out whether an ancestor was born in ca. 1783 or ca. > 1790. Probably 1783 but here is the set of dates that I am looking at for a > John Billington-- > > 1841 England census age given = 45, writing very clear so probably born > 1791-1796 > > 1846 Ship manifest age giver = 62, writing clear so born ca. 1783 > > 1850 US census age give = 60, writing very clear so born ca.1790 > > 1860 US census age given=77, writing very clear so born ca. 1783 > > 1864, Aug 27 Will age given 74 so born ca 1790 > > 1870 US census age given=87, writing very clear so born ca. 1783 > > 1872 obituary age given=89 so born ca. 1783 > > He may have been born in the Preston Gubbels area outside of Shrewsbury. > > Any input is welcome. > TIA > Anne in Aurora IL > > > ==== ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS Mailing List ==== > TO view Eng-Shropshire-Plus archived messages click here: > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ENG/ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS.html > If you're new to the list, there may be something useful in the archives > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > >

Hi: Mary Bore and Samuel Speake were my great, great, great grandparents. Mary was indeed the daughter of John and Elizabeth Bore (also know as Boor or Bone) and was born in Dunnington and christened in Lilleshall in 1814. Mary Bore and Samuel Speake were married in Wistanstow on 25 May 1941. Mary died on 27 November 1897 in Hopesay. There is a grave marker in Hopesay cemetery with an inscription. They had eight children. The Thomas Williams you see in the 1891 census - the Speake's grandson - was descended from a Williams family that is still living in Hopesay in the same house their ancestors were living in in the mid 1800s. Having said all this, I can tell you oodles of information about Samuel Speake's ancestors but nothing at all about Mary Bore's ancestors beyond her parents. Still, if you need any information, please drop me a line. Adrian Winnipeg, Canada At 05:58 AM 5/10/04, you wrote: >SPEAK SPEKE SPEAKE Etc > >Before I realised it wasn't my Mary Bore , Oh well, you win some >...I found Samuel and Mary (Bore)SPEAK > >Free BMD >Marriages Jun 1841 >BORE Mary Church Streetton 18 77 >SPEAKS Samuel Church Stretton 18 77 > >1871 England Census > Shropshire > Hopesay > District 5 >Round Oak >Samuel SPEAK Head 60 Farmer of 25 acres land Acton Scott Salop >Mary SPEAK Wife 58 Bishops Castle Salop >Mary SPEAK daughter 24 Employed at home Hopesay Salop >Henry SPEAK son 16 Scholar Hopesay Salop >Samuel SPEAK grandson 2 Cheltenham Gloscestershire >Elizabeth BOOR Wife's mother 87 Pontesbury Salop > > > >1881 UK Census >Dwelling Round Oak > Census Place Hopesay, Shropshire, England > Family History Library Film 1341631 > Public Records Office Reference RG11 > Piece / Folio 2622 / 50 > Page Number 4 > >Saml. SPEAKE Head M Male 65 Minton Ch Sttn, Shropshire, England. >Farmer 26 Acres Or About >Mary SPEAKE Wife M Female 66 Oakengate, Shropshire, England. Md Nurs >Saml. SPEAKE Grand Son U Male 11 Stroud, Gloucester, England. Scholar > >1891 >1891 England Census > Shropshire > Hopesay > District 5 >Source information: RG12/2088 Registration district: Clun Sub >registration district: Lydbury ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Folio: 41 Page: 7 >Round Oak >Samuel SPEAK Head Married 83 Farmer Salop Acton Scott >Mary SPEAK Wife 78 Salop Wrockandine Wood ? >Thomas WILLIAMS Grandson 14 General labourer Hopesay Salop > >The most likely birth for this Mary I can find is MARY BOORE > Christening: 10 JUL 1814 Lilleshall, Shropshire, England > Father: JOHN BOORE > Mother: ELIZABETH >Parish register transcripts, 1653-1812 Church of England. Parish >Church of Lilleshall. > >Does anyone know any more about This John and Elizabeth Bore as I >might be able to link this lot back in again somewhere after all as >I have several John Bore/Boor/Boore 's of the right sort of age?

I am trying to figure out whether an ancestor was born in ca. 1783 or ca. 1790. Probably 1783 but here is the set of dates that I am looking at for a John Billington-- 1841 England census age given = 45, writing very clear so probably born 1791-1796 1846 Ship manifest age giver = 62, writing clear so born ca. 1783 1850 US census age give = 60, writing very clear so born ca.1790 1860 US census age given=77, writing very clear so born ca. 1783 1864, Aug 27 Will age given 74 so born ca 1790 1870 US census age given=87, writing very clear so born ca. 1783 1872 obituary age given=89 so born ca. 1783 He may have been born in the Preston Gubbels area outside of Shrewsbury. Any input is welcome. TIA Anne in Aurora IL

At 09:32 PM 13/08/2006, Faysal Chouikh wrote: >what I was thinking in relation (pardon the pun) to the generations >of today being researched in the future, there have always been >illigitimate children, its a fact, but there are so many now that do >not have thier fathers name on the birth certificate, so many men >that have "sired" all over town, with no official record, only word >of mouth from families as to who is connected to who and how. it >will be a minefield for the future! Remember the old Jewish saying that goes similar to this: It's a wise person who knows who his father is! In one of my searches re. baptisms (probably Ellesmere), a lsingle lady sat in church with her baby who was going to be baptised, and she named a certain man as the father. A man of that name stood up in the church and exclaimed: "I am not the father of that child!" (This was written in the baptismal register). Several months later the couple were married, so what do you make of that? Cheers Graham

Hello Penny John Ravenscroft can be contacted at nbi@sfhs.org.uk The Enta net address has been obsolete for a few years. The SIMPSON burials from Newport St Nicholas are attached below. For your information the burials from the Newport Cemetery will be included in a future release of the Shropshire Burials CD. Mike ______________________________________________________ Parish Forename Surname Title Date of Burial Age Abode County Occupation Comment Status Relation Approx Year of Birth Newport St Nicholas Charles SIMPSON 29 Mar 1818 8h Newport Infant Son of Charles & Hannah 1818 Newport St Nicholas Charles SIMPSON 8 May 1817 2h Newport Infant Son of Charles & Hannah 1817 Newport St Nicholas Elizabeth SIMPSON 2 Jan 1823 5m Newport il Mary 1822 Newport St Nicholas George SIMPSON 27 Feb 1828 1 Newport Son of Thomas & Mary 1827 Newport St Nicholas George SIMPSON 19 Jun 1822 1d Newport Son of Charles & Hannah 1822 Newport St Nicholas John SIMPSON 13 Aug 1835 3m Newport 1835 Newport St Nicholas John SIMPSON 5 Jan 1823 61 Newport 1762 Newport St Nicholas John SiMPSON 24 Aug 1821 3m Newport Son of Charles & Hannah 1821 Newport St Nicholas Mary SIMPSON 2 Aug 1835 2 Newport 1833 Newport St Nicholas Mary SIMPSON 28 Jun 1827 16 Newport 1811 Newport St Nicholas Phoenix SIMPSON 2 Jun 1833 2 Newport 1831 Newport St Nicholas Samuel SIMPSON 22 Dec 1814 4d Newport Occupation details Son of John & Mary 1814 Newport St Nicholas Sarah SIMPSON 16 Apr 1837 81 Newport 1756 Copyright SFHS 2004 ______________________________________________________ FOUNTAlNPen@aol.com wrote: > Dear Listers, a few years ago I purchased the above CD from the Salop FHS > stand at a local FHS Fair. It worked fine for months. Then it didn't. > After much frustration trying to work out 'why?' I did the recommended thing > and sent an email to _john@ravenscroft.enta.net_ (mai > lto:john@ravenscroft.enta.net) > > I did not get a reply. > This year, I sent another email to the same address. It didn't bounce this > time either, but again, no reply. > > First, can anyone tell me who the right person to contact would be, if the > man above is no longer 'the one'? > Second, I know someone else on the list has had a similar problem with their > CD not working - does anyone know who it was and if the prob. was resolved? > Third - > Help! Can someone send me SIMPSON names from their working disc, Newport and > local area, Please? > Best Wishes and grateful thanks, Penny > > > ==== ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS Mailing List ==== > WHY not visit the Shropshire Genuki site. > It really is a mine of information. > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SAL/ > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > >

At 06:47 PM 13/08/2006, twigs wrote: > but not heard of Winstanstow. Dear Glenys and Jo I guess not. It is Wistanstow. WISTANSTOW is a parish in the hundred of Purslow, county Salop, 5 miles S.W. of Church-Stretton, and 10 N.W. of Ludlow. The village is situated near the river Onny, and includes Cheny Longville. The church is dedicated to the Holy Trinity. (Courtesy of Genuki uk.) Wistanstow registers are on the IGI from 1661-1876. Bishops transcripts for this period are available on microfilm through the Latter Day Saints folk at their FH libraries in various towns throughout Australia for $5 per microfilm to view at their libraries, which may reveal the address or the area in which Glenys's folks lived. Generally, on baptisms and burials for those days the occupation of the father and the address of the family was revealed, though not always. Churchwardens accounts perhaps might reveal more, but these seem not to be available those for Wistanstow, unless these be at the Shropshire Archives in Shrewsbury. Also, take into account that your folk may have come from nearby parishes and may be registered there in earlier times. Close parishes within three miles to Wistanstow are: Acton Scott, Edgton, Hopesay, Halton, Myndtown or Mindtown, Sibdon Carwood and Stokesay. Cheers Graham

At 02:17 PM 13/08/2006, Glenys Woosnam wrote: >Hello list, I was wondering if there is someone who could tell me >what the address of my 2xgranparents is. the only information is he >was born in 6/4/1821 c 8 /9/1821 Winstanstow is there any way to >find out this information as his father died c 1826-30 I haven't >found his death yet, Mother remarried (unknown) My gggrandfather >came to Australia in the first quarter of January 1841 so I cannot >find him on the Census for that year He is my brick >wall???? Thanking all. > Glenys in Ozz Dear Grannywoo Hi Glenys Ahh, you did not give any names, hope this was not a senior moment! :))) Don't worry. We all do it now and then. Cheers Graham Melbourne Oz too

Hi all I have been recently putting some of my Ellesmere connected families to Excel database and what struck me very clearly was how the folks of old often named their children in relationship to already born cousins. Whether this was done in regard to family tradition or an example of one-upmanship, who knows. Anyway, it does create a problem or two for family history researchers, especially those who rely upon only the IGI for their discoveries. If one is not alert, one can jump on the wrong marriage when these children grow up. Just taking my Boylin family of Ellesmere for example - I initially found these of that surname but suspected that the earlier rendition of the name on the Ellesmere parish registers was Byollin. This has proven to be correct. Anyway, my "argument" is that because early marriage records do not give the partner's parents, it is a black hole of slips that can be fallen into by the unwary genealogist. I append the following just to give some awareness of the situation. When you have two or three cousins of the same name being baptised in the same year, or three (even five) apart, you do need to be extra cautious when it comes to their adult marriage. Just look at this for possible confusion! 9 Sep 1749 Elizabeth d/o William & Mary Byollin of Ellesmere baptised 6 Apr 1750 Elizabeth d/o Thomas & Ann Byollin of Tetchill baptised 19 Oct 1751 John s/o John & Sarah Byollin of Cockshutt baptised 27 Dec 1751 John s/o William & Mary Byollin of Ellesmere baptised 24 May 1754 Thomas s/o Thomas & Anne Byollin of Tetchill baptised 18 Apri 1756 Thomas s/o John & Sarah Byollin of Tetchill baptised 1 Jan 1759 Mary d/o William & Mary Byollin of (Tetchill) baptised 29 Jul 1759 Mary d/o John & Sarah Byollin of Tetchill baptised 26 Dec 1759 Mary d/o Joshua & Sarah of Northwood baptised Remember, regardless of the townships mentioned, these are all of the same parish, i.e. St. Mary's, Ellesmere, so marriages later on would be usually carried out at Ellesmere. A dog's breakfast! What you need to do in this situation is first to check the burial registers of the parish, and sad as it may seem, one or other of the same name may have passed on in infancy so that could solve your problem. Unfortunately, there is not much else you can do with the early registers, but if you are into the mid 1800s the census will of course be a great help in separating these families, and indeed marriage registers of 1837 and above usually gave the parents. One other clue is that early marriage regs often gave witnesses, so a brother or a sister could be registered. Just something for you to think about. Most experienced researchers will be aware of this, though some beginners may not. Cheers Graham Melbourne

Dear Listers, a few years ago I purchased the above CD from the Salop FHS stand at a local FHS Fair. It worked fine for months. Then it didn't. After much frustration trying to work out 'why?' I did the recommended thing and sent an email to _john@ravenscroft.enta.net_ (mai lto:john@ravenscroft.enta.net) I did not get a reply. This year, I sent another email to the same address. It didn't bounce this time either, but again, no reply. First, can anyone tell me who the right person to contact would be, if the man above is no longer 'the one'? Second, I know someone else on the list has had a similar problem with their CD not working - does anyone know who it was and if the prob. was resolved? Third - Help! Can someone send me SIMPSON names from their working disc, Newport and local area, Please? Best Wishes and grateful thanks, Penny

Hello list, I was wondering if there is someone who could tell me what the address of my 2xgranparents is. the only information is he was born in 6/4/1821 c 8 /9/1821 Winstanstow is there any way to find out this information as his father died c 1826-30 I haven't found his death yet, Mother remarried (unknown) My gggrandfather came to Australia in the first quarter of January 1841 so I cannot find him on the Census for that year He is my brick wall???? Thanking all. Glenys in Ozz

Glenys in Oz, What are the christian and surname(s) of your Wistanstow people, what info do you have as to their likely occupations? There is also a place called Wistanswick, but not heard of Winstanstow. I do not have a directory for there, covering before 1850, and the 1850 does not cover ag labs and us ordinary people. Also have other fiche and "things", but names useful. Jo.

Helen - the National Probate Indexes are available in microform from 1858 to 1943 at Worcester History Centre. If you will be in London the best place to look is at the Principle Probate Registry in High Holborn, it is about a 15 minute walk (downhill) from the FRC. There they have the index books from 1858 to 1992, after that the indexes are on computer terminals and very annoyingly, you can only search one year at a time and you must put in at least an initial as well as a family name, so for each year from 1992 you have to search 26 times. Best of luck - Sue Page ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor & Helen Day" <thday@rbe.net.au> To: <ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 11:24 PM Subject: RE: [ENG-SHROP] National Probate Calendars > Mike, thank you for your informative answer. Just what I needed to know. > > Helen > S Australia > > > > ==== ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS Mailing List ==== > TO post a message to the list for *every* subscriber to read, please > *always* use - > ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

Mike, thank you for your informative answer. Just what I needed to know. Helen S Australia

Hello Helen Shropshire Archives don't have a copy of the National Probate Calendars, which commenced in 1858. There is a microfiche copy at Chester and I believe Hereford has some sort of copy. Birmingham Central Library has a set of the index books on the 6th floor and I think these will be much easier and quicker to use than the microfiche. Birmingham Library don't have the last fifty years of indexes and places with microfiche might stop a bit earlier than that. If you are in London you can visit the Court Service premises where they have the indexes from 1858 right through to the present year. See their web site at http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1226.htm Take care if you are searching the first few years of the indexes from July 1858 for about the first ten years or so because the Wills and the Administrations are indexed separately, sometimes as two sequences in the same book and sometimes in two different books. Once you get past this initial first few years the Wills and Administrations are all indexed together in a single sequence. Amazingly the Probate Indexes are still not available online - we can but live in hope! Whilst you asked specifically about the National Probate Calendars (July 1858 onwards) you might be interested to know that when you visit Shropshire Archives that they have microform copies of the indexes of Wills prior to 1858 for the Diocese of Lichfield which covers the northern half of Shropshire. Mike ______________________________________________________ Trevor & Helen Day wrote: > Does the Shrewsbury Record Office have copies of the National Probate > Calenders? I cannot find a ref. on their website. Hoping to check them out > somewhere on my next trip to the UK. > > If not, are they online anywhere? > > > > Thanks > > Helen Day > > S Australia > > > > ==== ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS Mailing List ==== > DO NOT send 'Unsubscribe' requests to the list. Send a new e-mail with just the word - unsubscribe - in the message body to ~ ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-L-request@rootsweb.com ~ Substitute -D- for -L- if in 'Digest' mode. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > > >

Does the Shrewsbury Record Office have copies of the National Probate Calenders? I cannot find a ref. on their website. Hoping to check them out somewhere on my next trip to the UK. If not, are they online anywhere? Thanks Helen Day S Australia

Hello all, A couple of small additions/corrections to Carol's message: The parents are Edward SANKEY and Martha Elizabeth was baptised in 1779, not 1799. There was another sister Martha baptised in Onibury 22 Aug 1784. A possible marriage of Edward and Martha is the following: Edward SANKEE & Martha THOMAS marr. 9 May 1779 Eye, Hereford I am researching all SANKEYs in Shropshire and would be glad to hear from anybody else who is interested.. Charles Sankey, Johannesburg. . Carol Haycock wrote: >. . . >George HOWARD married Margaret SANKEY 3 August 1837 in Bromfield . Margaret was born 24 Jan 1796 in Onibury the daughter of Edward SANKEY and Margaret? > >She had a sister Ann christened 11 March 1792 in Onibury and 3 brothers who could have named one of their daughters after her. The brothers were: > >John 3 Feb 1782 Onibury >Edward 14 Jan 1787 Onibury >Richard 3 Jan 1790 Onibury > >There was also another sister, Elizabeth, 16 Nov 1799 christened in Culmington > >Carol in Colorado > >

At 02:27 AM 9/08/2006, rt17xxl wrote: >Janet, > Ann turns up in 1871 RG10/2725 Folio 110, Pg 37, Schedule 196 as Ann >SANKEY, Mar, Aged 38, born Neen Savage, living in with John TAFT a widowed >Bootmaker, No 9 Waterside, St Lawrence, Ludlow, SAL. Hi all I see all the references, but just in case she really was born as a Sankey, this is a very long shot but may be relevant as Ditton Priors is so very close to Neen Savage and there are no Ann Smiths or Ann Sankeys shown to be baptised at Neen Savage in those days. Just a thought, maybe worth investigating. May mean nothing, but........ SANKEY, Ann Christening Gender: Female Christening Date: 16 Jan 1825 Recorded in: Ditton Priors, Shropshire, England Father: Edward SANKEY Mother: Mary Source: FHL Film 992298 Dates: 1813 - 1851 Cheers Graham Melbourne Oz >

Hi folks, I thought you might be interested in my research in the HOWARD family in the Diddlebury, Stanton Lacy area as it brings up the SANKEY name. George HOWARD married Margaret SANKEY 3 August 1837 in Bromfield . Margaret was born 24 Jan 1796 in Onibury the daughter of Edward SANKEY and Margaret? She had a sister Ann christened 11 March 1792 in Onibury and 3 brothers who could have named one of their daughters after her. The brothers were: John 3 Feb 1782 Onibury Edward 14 Jan 1787 Onibury Richard 3 Jan 1790 Onibury There was also another sister, Elizabeth, 16 Nov 1799 christened in Culmington Carol in Colorado

Hi all, I am tracing the MATTHIAS/GRINDLEY families for my next door neighbour who is 60 in Oct. as a surprise. Here is what I know. . Thomas MATTHIAS married Alice GRINDLEY in 1911, the freebmd has Wrexham as the issuing office. . There 3 Thomas Matthias in the BMDs, Mar 1882, Dec 1885 and Dec 1891, each could be mine. . The 1901 census shows 3 candidates, aged 19 from Broughton, aged 19 from Gwersyllt and aged 15, from Brymbo, Denbigh. . I suspect Alice was not from the immediate area as I cannot find her on the 1901 census there. .Does anyone have a GRINDLEY connection ?. I am after the father of Thomas MATTHIAS. Thanks, Terry

I'm going away on holiday see you all when I get back Carol