>>But since he has gone from master blacksmith to labourer, my bet would be that he had some illness or injury that prevented him doing the job. This could be anything from poor sight, to industrial accident to too much beer (very thirsty work). Or just general decline and weakness due to a chronic condition such as TB. So I reckon the answer to your question could be on his death cert.<< I had been contemplating why he had "down turned" and it appears to be between 1871 and 1881. I came up with the same thoughts as you. I guess its something for us to bear in mind for all our ancestors! Mellie Why Does My Coat Of Arms Have Buckles At The Back?

Trena wrote: > Has someone sent you the details and/or image of the 1871? Or at least > tried to find your man? If not, > I'll give it a go for you. Yes, I have the image. Thank your for the offer though :)) What lovely people there are on this list :))

judy olsen wrote: > The answer is, any of the things that would cause a person to move > 'down' the career ladder these days, just in a 19thC form. > > As a master blacksmith he ran his own business and would be > vulnerable to bad debts, general economic downturn and loss of > business due to the railways. > > But since he has gone from master blacksmith to labourer, my bet > would be that he had some illness or injury that prevented him doing > the job. This could be anything from poor sight, to industrial > accident to too much beer (very thirsty work). Or just general > decline and weakness due to a chronic condition such as TB. So I > reckon the answer to your question could be on his death cert. I've had a look for his death and found two likely candidates. One in 1883 (age 55) in Newcastle under Lyme RD and one in 1912 (age 83) in Wem RD which covers Shawbury where "my" John PYE was born. I'll have to have a look at my finances and hope I can get in quick before the new series of WDYTYA has an effect on delivery times.

KEITH ROBERTS wrote: > Hi Charani, Have sent you the 1871 off list. I would suggest to you > that your John Pye was still a Blacksmith employing in 1881 and > the error is probably the enumerators. If you note there is a full > stop after the word Blacksmith. And received with thanks :)) I was looking at a transcript rather than the actual image but that's interesting. Would a blacksmith be listed in Kelly's, or similar, at that time? There are two John PYE deaths and either one of them could be him. One, in 1883 at the age of 55 but in Newcastle under Lyme RD, which would appear to be the wrong area. The other is in 1912 at the age of 83 in Wem RD, which covers the area where "my" John PYE was born. I may have to dig deep into the coffers, or persuade my husband an early Xmas present is in order ;))

The answer is, any of the things that would cause a person to move 'down' the career ladder these days, just in a 19thC form. As a master blacksmith he ran his own business and would be vulnerable to bad debts, general economic downturn and loss of business due to the railways. But since he has gone from master blacksmith to labourer, my bet would be that he had some illness or injury that prevented him doing the job. This could be anything from poor sight, to industrial accident to too much beer (very thirsty work). Or just general decline and weakness due to a chronic condition such as TB. So I reckon the answer to your question could be on his death cert. Judy On 5 Sep 2006, at 19:19, Charani wrote: > What would cause him to have ceased to be a Master Blacksmith and > become a blacksmith's labourer?

Mellie wrote: > Hi Charani > Your John Pye appears to be a blacksmith employer in 1871 > if you email me at chouikh2006@btinternet.com I will send you the details and image of list Many thanks for that information. Someone has already sent me the image but thank you for the offer :))

Hi Charani Your John Pye appears to be a blacksmith employer in 1871 if you email me at chouikh2006@btinternet.com I will send you the details and image of list regards Mellie Why Does My Coat Of Arms Have Buckles At The Back?

Hello List Organiser, Would you be kind enough to transfre me backto the MIME format, please, as I can't put selected messages into my files. Thank you , Carole Noden

Hi Charani, Have sent you the 1871 off list. I would suggest to you that your John Pye was still a Blacksmith employing in 1881 and the error is probably the enumerators. If you note there is a full stop after the word Blacksmith. Cheers, Keith Roberts. Charani <familyhistory@charani.plus.com> wrote: According to the 1861 census John PYE, 32, was a Master Blacksmith employing one man in Shawbury. Sometime around 1871, (I don't have access to the census of that year) he moved to Higher Ercall but had moved to Shrewsbury by about 1879. By 1881 census he's working as a Blacksmith's labourer. What would cause him to have ceased to be a Master Blacksmith and become a blacksmith's labourer? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 9/5/06 7:08:51 PM, eng-shropshire-plus-request@rootsweb.com writes: > According to the 1861 census John PYE, 32, was a Master Blacksmith > employing one man in Shawbury. > > Sometime around 1871, (I don't have access to the census of that year) > he moved to Higher Ercall but had moved to Shrewsbury by about 1879. > > By 1881 census he's working as a Blacksmith's labourer. > Hi Charani! Perhaps he had financial troubles and had to sell his business and/or equipment. Donna Mollaun

According to the 1861 census John PYE, 32, was a Master Blacksmith employing one man in Shawbury. Sometime around 1871, (I don't have access to the census of that year) he moved to Higher Ercall but had moved to Shrewsbury by about 1879. By 1881 census he's working as a Blacksmith's labourer. What would cause him to have ceased to be a Master Blacksmith and become a blacksmith's labourer?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Charani" To: "List Shrops" <eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 2:19 PM Subject: [ENG-SHROP] Blacksmith from Master to Labourer > Sometime around 1871, (I don't have access to the census of that year) > he moved to Higher Ercall but had moved to Shrewsbury by about 1879. Has someone sent you the details and/or image of the 1871? Or at least tried to find your man? If not, I'll give it a go for you. Toni ~ Ontario, Canada

Thank you Mellie, that would be great. Its 2pm here. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mellie" <chouikh2006@btinternet.com> To: <eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-SHROP] Look Up for St. Leonard Broseley > Hi Mellie, > Thank you for your email. Yes there is a Benjamin born 1790. > I am fairly sure that the first child born to John and Ann Ward was > William > 1887 and that the other two ( Bagnall) had Fanny as their first. > Anita > > Hi anita, I haven't looked too much into John and Ann yet, but the 2nd > son of benjamin, is edward Ambrose Bill, who had a son Alfred, who had a > son Edward Ambrose, who had a son Frank Alfred who was my great Uncle, > married to my nans sister! I have only recently had a crack at this line, > some of the info I received from another "bill" researcher, I don't have a > gedcom from them, I think I am just picking through their tree slowly, Its > silly o clock and my brain just isn't in gear right now, if you want to > see what we have and what the other researcher has you can reach me at > chouikh2006@btinternet.com and we can go through it later today when I > have had some sleep! > regards > Mellie > Why Does My Coat Of Arms Have Buckles At The Back? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Mellie, Thank you for your email. Yes there is a Benjamin born 1790. I am fairly sure that the first child born to John and Ann Ward was William 1887 and that the other two ( Bagnall) had Fanny as their first. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mellie" <chouikh2006@btinternet.com> To: <eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-SHROP] Look Up for St. Leonard Broseley >>>I am looking for advise on getting look ups for two marriages at the >>>above. > I have two marriages for one John Bill. One on the 6th November 1786 to > Ann > Ward and the other to Ann Bagnall on the 23rd June 1787.<< > > is one of the children Benjamin? > > I have (unconfirmed) John Bill and Ann Ward parents of Benjamin Bill. Benj > married Ann Stringer > Mellie > Why Does My Coat Of Arms Have Buckles At The Back? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am looking for advise on getting look ups for two marriages at the above. I have two marriages for one John Bill. One on the 6th November 1786 to Ann Ward and the other to Ann Bagnall on the 23rd June 1787. I am thinking the wittnesses to the marriage may be able to help me establish which one is mine. My ancestor Michael Bill was christened 30.3.1794 and there were a few other children to John and Ann but I cannot "work out" who are mine. Any advise would be very much appreciated. Anita Australia ----- Original Message ----- ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I suspect my lady thought that Bowness was far enough away from Oswestry to be able to pull off Widow ! she is definatley the right lady, Right age, place of birth, right sister and right Daughter, I look forward to the 1911 just to see what happened to her. thanks for your thoughts. regards Catherine

Hi Mellie, Thank you for your email. Yes there is a Benjamin born 1790. I am fairly sure that the first child born to John and Ann Ward was William 1887 and that the other two ( Bagnall) had Fanny as their first. Anita Hi anita, I haven't looked too much into John and Ann yet, but the 2nd son of benjamin, is edward Ambrose Bill, who had a son Alfred, who had a son Edward Ambrose, who had a son Frank Alfred who was my great Uncle, married to my nans sister! I have only recently had a crack at this line, some of the info I received from another "bill" researcher, I don't have a gedcom from them, I think I am just picking through their tree slowly, Its silly o clock and my brain just isn't in gear right now, if you want to see what we have and what the other researcher has you can reach me at chouikh2006@btinternet.com and we can go through it later today when I have had some sleep! regards Mellie Why Does My Coat Of Arms Have Buckles At The Back?

>>I am looking for advise on getting look ups for two marriages at the above. I have two marriages for one John Bill. One on the 6th November 1786 to Ann Ward and the other to Ann Bagnall on the 23rd June 1787.<< is one of the children Benjamin? I have (unconfirmed) John Bill and Ann Ward parents of Benjamin Bill. Benj married Ann Stringer Mellie Why Does My Coat Of Arms Have Buckles At The Back?

Catherine Salt wrote: > Hello All > > In 1901 Thomas Charles PRICE born 1867 Gobowen was living with his > parents in Whittington. he was married but no wife and children > present. > > In 1901 Violet C PRICE is in Bowness on Windemere (with her sister > and 2 daughters born Oswestry) but claims she is a *WID.* > > Was this lady unusual ? this is the only instance I have found "so > far" Any thoughts welome ;o) > > FreeBMD has Violet Crossley CULPIN and Thomas Charles PRICE married > 1890 Oswestry No, she wasn't particularly unusual. It's very likely that she took a "poor (wo)man's divorce". Being a widow was far more socially acceptable than being a divorcee, if she'd been able to obtain a divorce in the firt place. It could be that the Violet in Bowness is a different one who genuinely was a widow.

Hello All In 1901 Thomas Charles PRICE born 1867 Gobowen was living with his parents in Whittington. he was married but no wife and children present. In 1901 Violet C PRICE is in Bowness on Windemere (with her sister and 2 daughters born Oswestry) but claims she is a *WID.* Was this lady unusual ? this is the only instance I have found "so far" Any thoughts welome ;o) FreeBMD has Violet Crossley CULPIN and Thomas Charles PRICE married 1890 Oswestry regards Catherine in Cheshire