Diana Thanks for your viewpoint on DNA Y-Chromosome. Have you considered mtDNA that is used on females? I about to start into an experiment using mtDNA on my aunts and female cousins. Ross GH Cotton, Burlington ON CAN 905)639-2929 Genealogy of the COTTON surname is my Enigma. I haven't sent an attachment if the details are not mentioned above. Check out my Genealogy Web Page at www.skylinc.net/~rgcotton GOONS member responsible for tracking the family name COTTON, #1437 Coordinator for Cotton DNA testing Project, Worldwide, See http://home.comcast.net/~cottondna/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Diana Robinson To: eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:53 AM Subject: [ENG-SHROP] DNA and Genealogy As my first post to this list, I feel I must jump in to the debate on DNA testing. I think that people whose families have lived in Britain, or anywhere for that matter, for many generations, cannot understand what it is like to be a "Colonial", as we in Canada, Australia, NZ & the US are - we are genealogical orphans often with no paper trail to follow and sometimes our ancestors came many different countries. For us, DNA testing is perhaps the only way we can connect to our ancestral lines, in our lifetime. When I started at this game of family history, I knew very little about my mother's family and virtually nothing about my fathers. With a great deal of time and work I have put together a large and accurate (ie. fully documented) tree, but there were gaps and questions, so I badgered my brother to give a DNA sample to prove or disprove our relationship to a family of "three brothers who came from Yorkshire" and settled in Quebec. Other descendants of the brothers also had a test and it has shown conclusively that while 2 of these men were brothers, my ancestor was not even remotely related to them. Now I live in hope that some nice person somewhere will have his DNA tested and I will get the magical notification that we have shared a common ancestor within the last 2 or 3 generations, which will allow me to find our true ancestors. So, if your name is ROBINSON, get thee to a lab and have a test, please! Oh yes, this is the Shropshire list! This I am sure of: my family names are: BICKLEY, (Hordley, Ellesmere); and DAVIES, specifically looking for Samuel DAVIES who was an auctioneer by trade and was probably born C1800; his daughter Mary, b.C1830 was my gggrandmother, born Welshpool. Best wishes, Diana Robinson Winchester, Ont. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

As my first post to this list, I feel I must jump in to the debate on DNA testing. I think that people whose families have lived in Britain, or anywhere for that matter, for many generations, cannot understand what it is like to be a "Colonial", as we in Canada, Australia, NZ & the US are - we are genealogical orphans often with no paper trail to follow and sometimes our ancestors came many different countries. For us, DNA testing is perhaps the only way we can connect to our ancestral lines, in our lifetime. When I started at this game of family history, I knew very little about my mother's family and virtually nothing about my fathers. With a great deal of time and work I have put together a large and accurate (ie. fully documented) tree, but there were gaps and questions, so I badgered my brother to give a DNA sample to prove or disprove our relationship to a family of "three brothers who came from Yorkshire" and settled in Quebec. Other descendants of the brothers also had a test and it has shown conclusively that while 2 of these men were brothers, my ancestor was not even remotely related to them. Now I live in hope that some nice person somewhere will have his DNA tested and I will get the magical notification that we have shared a common ancestor within the last 2 or 3 generations, which will allow me to find our true ancestors. So, if your name is ROBINSON, get thee to a lab and have a test, please! Oh yes, this is the Shropshire list! This I am sure of: my family names are: BICKLEY, (Hordley, Ellesmere); and DAVIES, specifically looking for Samuel DAVIES who was an auctioneer by trade and was probably born C1800; his daughter Mary, b.C1830 was my gggrandmother, born Welshpool. Best wishes, Diana Robinson Winchester, Ont.

Does anyone have a family connection to Bert Davies, who died on 30th August 1929, aged 25. He was married to Ellen B Davies of Dawley? Thanks Ann

Hi y'all and greetings from California, My 2 cents worth... mtDNA is great and I've completed my second test, (the MVR2) but before you jump on that band wagon, just be aware that it's less genealogically helpful than the YDNA test for men. I won't go into the details, there are lots of sites to guide you in your decision making. Personally, I've enjoyed the pursuit they both have provided. Giselle EMBRY EMBRY of northern France -----Original Message----- From: eng-shropshire-plus-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-shropshire-plus-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ross G. H. Cotton Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 8:48 AM To: eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-SHROP] DNA and Genealogy Diana Thanks for your viewpoint on DNA Y-Chromosome. Have you considered mtDNA that is used on females? I about to start into an experiment using mtDNA on my aunts and female cousins. Ross GH Cotton, Burlington ON CAN 905)639-2929 Genealogy of the COTTON surname is my Enigma. I haven't sent an attachment if the details are not mentioned above. Check out my Genealogy Web Page at www.skylinc.net/~rgcotton GOONS member responsible for tracking the family name COTTON, #1437 Coordinator for Cotton DNA testing Project, Worldwide, See http://home.comcast.net/~cottondna/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Diana Robinson To: eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:53 AM Subject: [ENG-SHROP] DNA and Genealogy As my first post to this list, I feel I must jump in to the debate on DNA testing. I think that people whose families have lived in Britain, or anywhere for that matter, for many generations, cannot understand what it is like to be a "Colonial", as we in Canada, Australia, NZ & the US are - we are genealogical orphans often with no paper trail to follow and sometimes our ancestors came many different countries. For us, DNA testing is perhaps the only way we can connect to our ancestral lines, in our lifetime. When I started at this game of family history, I knew very little about my mother's family and virtually nothing about my fathers. With a great deal of time and work I have put together a large and accurate (ie. fully documented) tree, but there were gaps and questions, so I badgered my brother to give a DNA sample to prove or disprove our relationship to a family of "three brothers who came from Yorkshire" and settled in Quebec. Other descendants of the brothers also had a test and it has shown conclusively that while 2 of these men were brothers, my ancestor was not even remotely related to them. Now I live in hope that some nice person somewhere will have his DNA tested and I will get the magical notification that we have shared a common ancestor within the last 2 or 3 generations, which will allow me to find our true ancestors. So, if your name is ROBINSON, get thee to a lab and have a test, please! Oh yes, this is the Shropshire list! This I am sure of: my family names are: BICKLEY, (Hordley, Ellesmere); and DAVIES, specifically looking for Samuel DAVIES who was an auctioneer by trade and was probably born C1800; his daughter Mary, b.C1830 was my gggrandmother, born Welshpool. Best wishes, Diana Robinson Winchester, Ont. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi folks Seeking ANY available detail on the c1712 marriage between Francis LLOYD and Anne of Atcham. Sadly I have little additional information other than the following baptisms of their children in Atcham :- SARAH - 1713. JAMES - 1716. FRANCIS - 1719. JOHN - 1723. & JOSEPH - 1727. Anne died c1729 - Francis is then believed to have married a Mary VICKERS in Atcham in 1730. I would greatly appreciate hearing from anyone who feels they may have a connection to the above families. Regards Keith Lloyd [ex Kidderminster, Worcs.] Adelaide. Sth. Australia Main family names:- GROOM. LLOYD. OWEN. TART. - Shrops/Staffs. DUDLEY. GREENFIELD. LEATHAM. LEECH. PEARSON. SILVERS. UNDERHILL. - Staffs/Worcs. OSBALDESTON. Anywhere in the Midlands.

Like you Keith I am also sceptical,although perhaps I would believe in it a bit more if it was free! Regards William Russell Jones Cefn Mawr Wrexham. ----- Original Message ----- From: "KEITH ROBERTS" <skrimhe@btinternet.com> To: <eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-SHROP] Changing patterns re. research > These `proven` DNA tests are a great puzzle to me in that I ask myself the > question - How do I go about finding a source of DNA from my dead and > totally inaccessible ancestors? And - how can I `prove` (with great > emphasis on that word) my connection. > You will understand the question in more depth when you see my signature > at the end of this letter! Sorry to appear to be sooooooo sceptical. > > Keith Roberts. > > "Ross G. H. Cotton" <rgcotton@skylinc.net> wrote: > Many years ago when I found I could go no further, with my William Cotton > of Kenilworth WAR, I considered a Ring Search and when that didn't work I > decided to start a ONS (One Name Study) for the surname that I was after. > It paid off and was able to get back another 100 years into SAL. Now with > DNA testing I was able to prove my connection back to the 1200's. > > > Ross GH Cotton, Burlington ON CAN 905)639-2929 > Genealogy of the COTTON surname is my Enigma. > I haven't sent an attachment if the details are not mentioned above. > > Check out my Genealogy Web Page at www.skylinc.net/~rgcotton > > GOONS member responsible for tracking the family name COTTON, #1437 > Coordinator for Cotton DNA testing Project, Worldwide, > See http://home.comcast.net/~cottondna/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: judy olsen > To: eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 1:36 PM > Subject: Re: [ENG-SHROP] Changing patterns re. research > > > > On 1 Oct 2006, at 14:13, Mellie wrote: > >> working on our own or on other peoples trees (my favourite habit >> when stuck on my own) > > > Ah but isnt this the best way to progress your own research! My > partner says to me, you seem to think there is some great god of > genealogy that will reward you - well of course I don't, I'm an > atheist, but its odd how when you have been doing look-ups etc for > other people suddenly you get a breakthrough on your own lines. The > logical explanation is that when you are active on the lists people > are more likely to respond to your own requests, but I did have one > instance where I had gone to a library in Edinburgh specifically to > do a look-up for someone, and then I picked up another book on the > city and - presto - it fell open at a page which mentioned an address > in Princes Street where a famous antiquarian had lived. Spookily, > that was the address my ancestor gave when she married. I have still > to work out the connection but this guy owned an estate in the parish > where her father lived. > > The house has long since been knocked down and there is now a Marks > and Spencer on the site. My partner says this explains why I am > mystically drawn to spending money there. > > Judy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Keith Roberts - Colwyn Bay, N. Wales. > *~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~* > www.tribalpages/tribes/kr2877 > www.byegones.co.uk > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The families I'm researching are: COOPER - Haslington, Cheshire DAVIES - Everton/West Derby, Lancs; Oswestry, Shropshire; Liscard, Cheshire and Montgomeryshire FOSTER - Wolverhampton, Wombourne and Ettingshall, Staffordshire GREGORY - Matlock, Derby; Manchester/Bury, Lancs. MARTIN - Wolverhampton, Darlaston and Bilston, Staffordshire MEADOWCROFT - Manchester/Bury, Lancs. OWENS - Flintshire and Shropshire WILBRAHAM - Crewe, Cheshire and Castle Church/Stafford, Staffordshire WORTHEN/WORTHING - Manchester, Lancs.; Stone and Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire Thank you, Susan

According to extracted records,the IGI records that Richard and Mary Hanmer had four children at Ellesmere in the 1750's;Thomas(1752),John(1754),Richard(1756) and Ann(1757).Would anyone know anything about the origins of this couple? Regards William Russell Jones Cefn Mawr Wrexham.

Perhaps the real problem that we have with DNA is the way we are trying to use it. If we start with our own DNA then compare it with a sample that has been deposited in another place, perhaps the scene of a crime, then we can be pretty sure of the comparison between the two samples. If they match the world will be convinced that we had been present at the site even if we did not commit the crime. In recent years DNA samples of a person arrested on a motoring charge has been compared with the national DNA database and whilst an exact match has not been found sufficient similarity is present to link a previous crime to a member of the same family. Our DNA is subject to passing down both female and male lines and we pick up factors from father after father as well as mother after mother. If their are no problems with our DNA then we can say that we are decended from the earliest person who has been identified with that DNA. But which of 9 brothers or sisters? Which side of the blanket were we? Perhaps family history is a little like doing a jig-saw puzzle theirs no real value but you are very pleased with each piece you put in. But for me it keeps the mind active and you can do it without having to run after a ball. Stuart Jamieson Charani <familyhunter@family-hunter.co.uk> wrote: Mellie wrote: > DNA would only confirm (Prove) that you are of that same lineage if > there was other Proven Lineage to compare to, which as > documentation is not always available may or may not prove, DNA on > its own won't Prove anything, it has to have a comparison, and the > pro-DNA testers will have to agree with that! You're saying what I've always said. DNA can't prove anything of itself. Yet time and time again, I see people saying, or implying, that DNA testing alone is sufficient to prove a link to family way back of the same name. So just what would be required to prove (to use the word that I see so many DNA testing advocates use) my 20th century connection to a 15th century lady? I've no intention of trying to prove the impossible but I'm curious to know. -- Charani (UK) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Perhaps the real problem that we have with DNA is the way we are trying to use it. If we start with our own DNA then compare it with a sample that has been deposited in another place, perhaps the scene of a crime, then we can be pretty sure of the comparison between the two samples. If they match the world will be convinced that we had been present at the site even if we did not commit the crime. In recent years DNA samples of a person arrested on a motoring charge has been compared with the national DNA database and whilst an exact match has not been found sufficient similarity is present to link a previous crime to a member of the same family. Our DNA is subject to passing down both female and male lines and we pick up factors from father after father as well as mother after mother. If their are no problems with our DNA then we can say that we are decended from the earliest person who has been identified with that DNA. But which of 9 brothers or sisters? Which side of the blanket were we? Perhaps family history is a little like doing a jig-saw puzzle theirs no real value but you are very pleased with each piece you put in. But for me it keeps the mind active and you can do it without having to run after a ball. Stuart Jamieson Charani <familyhunter@family-hunter.co.uk> wrote: Mellie wrote: > DNA would only confirm (Prove) that you are of that same lineage if > there was other Proven Lineage to compare to, which as > documentation is not always available may or may not prove, DNA on > its own won't Prove anything, it has to have a comparison, and the > pro-DNA testers will have to agree with that! You're saying what I've always said. DNA can't prove anything of itself. Yet time and time again, I see people saying, or implying, that DNA testing alone is sufficient to prove a link to family way back of the same name. So just what would be required to prove (to use the word that I see so many DNA testing advocates use) my 20th century connection to a 15th century lady? I've no intention of trying to prove the impossible but I'm curious to know. -- Charani (UK) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thought that someone on the list may be interested in this book currently on Ebay Item number: 120037926105 Lots of pictures. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THE-KINGS-ENGLAND-SHROPSHIRE-ARTHUR-MEE-SALOP-v-NICE_W0QQitemZ120037926105QQihZ002QQcategoryZ98586QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting Keith Roberts. Keith Roberts - Colwyn Bay, N. Wales. *~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~* www.tribalpages/tribes/kr2877 www.byegones.co.uk

Mellie wrote: > DNA would only confirm (Prove) that you are of that same lineage if > there was other Proven Lineage to compare to, which as > documentation is not always available may or may not prove, DNA on > its own won't Prove anything, it has to have a comparison, and the > pro-DNA testers will have to agree with that! You're saying what I've always said. DNA can't prove anything of itself. Yet time and time again, I see people saying, or implying, that DNA testing alone is sufficient to prove a link to family way back of the same name. So just what would be required to prove (to use the word that I see so many DNA testing advocates use) my 20th century connection to a 15th century lady? I've no intention of trying to prove the impossible but I'm curious to know. -- Charani (UK)

Dear Carole, Do you know about the website http://www.dawleybank.co.uk/ Best wishes Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: <Caswyke@aol.com> To: <ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:48 AM Subject: [ENG-SHROP] wyke > Is there anyone out there who can help me by looking up the christening of > Cathen Alice Wyke in Jul 1858 in Dawley. I have her death certificate but > cannot find a birth certificate for her. I would be especially interested > in any > fathers name or where her mother was living at the time. Thank you > > Carol Buchan > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I suggest the problem with what has been discussed recently herein is improper use, and a misunderstanding, of the term. In genealogy one is interested in "DNA Y-Chromosome" testing of Males, and "mtDNA" testing for females, and not the DNA testing that is used for criminal cases. If you read up on "DNA Y-Chromosome" testing you will find that it is also called "Junk DNA", since it has no other value than to connect up a male to another male of the same lineage. It worked for me. Ross GH Cotton, Burlington ON CAN 905)639-2929 Genealogy of the COTTON surname is my Enigma. I haven't sent an attachment if the details are not mentioned above. Check out my Genealogy Web Page at www.skylinc.net/~rgcotton GOONS member responsible for tracking the family name COTTON, #1437 Coordinator for Cotton DNA testing Project, Worldwide, See http://home.comcast.net/~cottondna/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart Jamieson To: eng-shropshire-plus@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-SHROP] Changing patterns re. research Perhaps the real problem that we have with DNA is the way we are trying to use it. If we start with our own DNA then compare it with a sample that has been deposited in another place, perhaps the scene of a crime, then we can be pretty sure of the comparison between the two samples. If they match the world will be convinced that we had been present at the site even if we did not commit the crime. In recent years DNA samples of a person arrested on a motoring charge has been compared with the national DNA database and whilst an exact match has not been found sufficient similarity is present to link a previous crime to a member of the same family. Our DNA is subject to passing down both female and male lines and we pick up factors from father after father as well as mother after mother. If their are no problems with our DNA then we can say that we are decended from the earliest person who has been identified with that DNA. But which of 9 brothers or sisters? Which side of the blanket were we? Perhaps family history is a little like doing a jig-saw puzzle theirs no real value but you are very pleased with each piece you put in. But for me it keeps the mind active and you can do it without having to run after a ball. Stuart Jamieson Charani <familyhunter@family-hunter.co.uk> wrote: Mellie wrote: > DNA would only confirm (Prove) that you are of that same lineage if > there was other Proven Lineage to compare to, which as > documentation is not always available may or may not prove, DNA on > its own won't Prove anything, it has to have a comparison, and the > pro-DNA testers will have to agree with that! You're saying what I've always said. DNA can't prove anything of itself. Yet time and time again, I see people saying, or implying, that DNA testing alone is sufficient to prove a link to family way back of the same name. So just what would be required to prove (to use the word that I see so many DNA testing advocates use) my 20th century connection to a 15th century lady? I've no intention of trying to prove the impossible but I'm curious to know. -- Charani (UK) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHROPSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I hadn't heard of this site before, thank you for the information. Carol Buchan

Is there anyone out there who can help me by looking up the christening of Cathen Alice Wyke in Jul 1858 in Dawley. I have her death certificate but cannot find a birth certificate for her. I would be especially interested in any fathers name or where her mother was living at the time. Thank you Carol Buchan

Hello Gordon, Long time no see! Mellie Why Does My Coat Of Arms Have Buckles At The Back?

>>Now we all know that once you get back to the late 1500's (if you can get there in the first place), the documentation "dries up" and you can no longer follow a paper trail to the next ancestor. So what's the use of knowing that you were related to someone else 1000 or more years ago? There's always going to be a void that will never be filled in. Besides, I really do not consider DNA testing as part of genealogy - it is genetics! Esther << I Have 2 lines that do go back into the 1500's, and they are very closely documented, they were in rural areas and wealthy folk, hence the paper trail, but you are quite right that for the most part we cant get back that far, Hell I been stuck in the late 1800's with one line since I started and I doubt its going to "progress" (backwards) I do have to disagree with your final comment though, DNA not part of genealogy, because it is genetics LOL Genealogy is basically the study of genes, and DNA testing is the comparison of those genes LOL genetics, genes, genealogy, do you see a pattern in the words? Mellie Why Does My Coat Of Arms Have Buckles At The Back?

You aren't the only one who's so sceptical about DNA testing. I'm afraid (at the risk of incurring the wrath of the pro-DNA testers) that I regard it as a gimmick, the latest "must have". There's no way DNA testing will "prove" that I'm a descendent of Alice ARUNDELL (b c1420) -- Charani (UK) DNA would only confirm (Prove) that you are of that same lineage if there was other Proven Lineage to compare to, which as documentation is not always available may or may not prove, DNA on its own won't Prove anything, it has to have a comparison, and the pro-DNA testers will have to agree with that! Mellie Why Does My Coat Of Arms Have Buckles At The Back?

Like you Keith I am also sceptical,although perhaps I would believe in it a bit more if it was free! Regards William Russell Jones Cefn Mawr Wrexham. I omitted to add, that there is a painful part, the COST LOL, if it compares to paternity testing it certainly is not cheap! Mellie Why Does My Coat Of Arms Have Buckles At The Back?