Hello Josephine Thanks for your reply and ideas. The information you have unearthed about Ralph Staveley is correct. I have traced that line back to the early 1700's (so far) in Tideswell. Elizabeth Hardy is my sticking point. I know she was a widow because that is her status on both the marriage licence and marriage record in the parish register. I am not too sure in all honesty about the correctness of her age yet. If she was indeed 69 in 1851 then she would have been about 40 when my gg grandfather, Henry, was born (less than 3 months after the marriage, hence the licence!) and about 42 when his brother was born. There only seem to have been two children from the marriage. I have no idea about any children from a previous marriage. Ralph died in Liverpool in 1839 at the age of 52 so he was about 35 at the time of the marriage. As yet I haven't been able to find Elizabeth in the 1841 census records. I am currently in the process of obtaining what I think is Elizabeth's death certificate which may clarify the age situation. I have been trying all sorts of directions to solve this one but nothing yet has provided any real information or leads. Sandra Hello Sandra and List, Sandra, are you certain that your Grandmother was a widow when she married Ralph Stavely? only there is a birth on the IGI for an Elizabeth Hardy, born 29 Dec 1782 Christened 05 January 1783 in Naburn, Yorkshire. She could have been born in one place (Sheffield) and christened in another. Her parents would have been Edward Hardy and Elizabeth (Weatherill) Hardy, if this is so. I noticed that there is a Marriage as you say for Elizabeth Hardy to Ralph Stavely 17 Feb. 1822 Saint Michael's Derby...I am fascinated that if the 1851 census was right, then your grandmother was at least 40 when she married? do you know how many children she had after marrying your Grandfather? I would be trying to find another census to see if the age is the same. It is a well known fact that ages on censuses are suspect... my own 3Xs great grandmother's age changed at least three times on three different censuses...I wouldn't go by just one. Re your Grandfather Ralph Staveley, there is only one birth of a Ralph Staveley on the IGI christened 23 October 1788 in Tideswell Derby, father Ralph Stavely, mother Sarah; you didn't mention how old your Grandfather was on the 1851 census... (this was however a submittal). There was a marriage for Ralph Staveley (Sr.) and Sarah Walker 01 January 1779 in Matlock Derby, (also a submittal) which suggests that there were more children born to this couple. In fact also on the IGI with a parent search comes the following information, Martha Staveley born 16 April 1781 Tideswell Derby to Ralph Staveley and Sarah, (this was an extracted entry and thus can be believed and it shows that there was such a couple, having children at the right time) and in 1784 Sarah Staveley christened 11 April 1784 in Tideswater to Ralph Staveley and Sarah...(another submittal, but more likely as there is a precedent with the extracted record, the other two need to be confirmed through Parish records as does the Marriage of Ralph and Sarah...sometimes one has to venture back and sideways to find answers. Although the conventional wisdom is to work backwards, I have found it exceedingly helpful to vary from that route, with excellent results... (These results must however be confirmed, cannot be taken as read). When one is stuck, put out feelers for other members of the family and see if anything gels, if not, nothing is lost, but a lot can be gained by this approach. What comes to mind right away is that if your 3Xsgreat grandmother was married before, unless she had no children by her 1st marriage, it would be likely that there should have been children from the previous marriage and they would likely have been with her on the 1831 census, maybe 1841, but not too likely. I know there is very little information usually on this particular census, however; if she had children living with her at that point born before 1822 (according to age) then it would be very likely that she was a widow. On the other hand if there was no evidence of prior children then it would be unlikely that she was a widow. Of course you would have to know when the family moved to Liverpool... Hope I have not totally confused you, Kindest regards, Josephine, Ontario. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Duncan" <Sandra@jean45.freeserve.co.uk> To: <ENG-SHEFFIELD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:48 AM Subject: [SHEFF] ELIZABETH HARDY > I am new to this list. > > I am trying (so far without success) to find someone who can throw light on my ggg grandmother, Elizabeth HARDY. The problem I have is that when Elizabeth married my ggg grandfather, Ralph STAVELEY (in Derby in February 1822), she was a widow and both the marriage licence and the record of the marriage just list her as Hardy. I assume that this was her name from her previous marriage and so I am lacking a maiden name. > > The family subsequently moved to Liverpool and the 1851 census says that she was born in Sheffield. As her age was given as 69 in the census, this indicates a year of birth around 1782. > > I have hit a bit of a brick wall with Elizabeth and just wondered if anyone has any clues lurking in research connected with their own families. > > Any help would be gratefully received. > > Sandra Duncan > Chester, Cheshire > > > ==== ENG-SHEFFIELD Mailing List ==== > Always include your name and area of residence on ALL list messages. It helps others to point you to your nearest source of information. It also makes for a more friendly message. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Original Message From: "Sandra Duncan" Sandra@jean45.freeserve.co.uk To: ENG-SHEFFIELD-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, April 05,2005 11:48 am Subject: [SHEFF] ELIZABETH HARDY Sandy writes: I am new to this list. I am trying (so far without success) to find someone who can throw light on my ggg grandmother, Elizabeth HARDY... etc. Second email from Sandy: Hello Josephine Thanks for your reply and ideas, The information you have unearthed about Ralph Staveley is correct...etc . Hi again Sandy, I did wonder how you knew she was a widow, thanks for clarifyng that. I do wonder about other children which she may have had in her first marriage... I too had got back as far as Tideswell, 1758 re the Ralphs, if I remember right. Let's hope that this was your Grandmother's death cert which you sent for, as it could give more info. Isn't Genealogy interesting? Will think about the problem re finding your Grandmother's Birth. Will let you know if I come up with anything. The only other thing which comes to mind is that they may have stayed in Derby after she was married the second time for awhile, depending on when they moved to Liverpool. One more thing, have you any idea what occupation your Grandfather was involved in as it may give some indication as to why he moved to Liverpool and where he might have been employed while still in Derby? It did cross my mind that Derby and Liverpool do not seemingly have too much in common... except for maybe paper, printing and cotton. I always think of the Docks etc in Liverpool and associate Liverpool with Commerce, Mills and Shipping etc, (probably wrongly). Having said that, I am never surprised at where I find my family now although I used to be. I always thought that they stayed around Sheffield, (Wrong)... they were much more adventurous back then than I ever gave them credit for. Maybe SKS maybe able to help with the 1841 census if you know which area they were living in at the time...may help to ask someone on the Derbyshire List for help as well if you haven't done so already, just a thought... the people on the Sheffield List are extremely helpful I find. Good luck with your research, sorry I couldn't be of any more help... regards, Josephine. > ==== ENG-SHEFFIELD Mailing List ==== > It helps others to know which message your replying to, so always add a little of the text from the message to which you are responding. Some subscribers (myself included) have short memories. > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > >