Carol was able to find this family in the 1851 census. Based on her info, I believe they are: On Andrew Street in Brightside in 1861 (family was living on Andrew Street at Alfred’s daughter’s marriage in 1858 and at his 1865 Sheffield Flood claim and Alfred's widow lived on Andrew Street in 1871 census) Alfred Armitage approx. age 51 born in Stannington, razor grinder Mary Armitage approx. age 45 born in Bradfield Henry Armitage approx. age 27 born in Stannington, razor grinder Thomas Armitage approx. age 25 born in Stannington, razor grinder (unknown) Armitage (f) approx. age 17-21 born in Sheffield (if not married and out of household) (from hard-to-read 1851 census entry – Effingham St. Sheffield Park) John Armitage approx. age 13 born in Sheffield (from hard-to-read 1851 census entry) William Armitage approx. age 13 born in Sheffield (from hard-to-read 1851 census entry) I would have put this request on the new 1841indexers message board, but I am having trouble getting setup as a member (Ian and I have been working on the problem). Richard Helm _richhelm@aol.com_ (mailto:richhelm@aol.com)