________________________________ For anyone on the list who may be interested in the Flowers and Allott families......... Carol (Cooper) kindly found the following at the Sheffield Archives October 18th 1886 Parish Church of Ecclesfield George Albert Flowers 20 Bachelor Carrier Grenoside Father's name and rank/profession left blank Mary Agnes Allott 19 Spinster No occupation stated Grenoside Father: Henry Allott, mason Both bride and groom signed the register with their names Witnesses: Henry Allott and Mary Ann Flowers Married by Banns Carol also found a baptism as follows: 20 May 1877 Sarah Ellen, daughter of Selina Flowers of Grenoside, Spinster **************************************************************** Since then I have had a bit of luck with the British Library's database of Nineteenth Century Newspapers, and discovered the name of George Albert Flowers' father...... >From The Sheffield & Rotherham Independent September 29th, 1886, p.4. Sheffield Town Hall Tuesday.-Before Mr. W.G.Blake and Mr. T.Jessop RETURN OF THE WANDERER Mr. R.Fairburn, who appeared for the complainant, mentioned the case of Charles Atkinson, who had been arrested the previous night for arrears of a bastardy order. Mr. Fairburn informed the Bench that an order was made upon the defendant twenty years ago to contribute to the support of the illegitimate child of Selina Flowers, the defendant at that time living in the neighbourhood of Sheffield. He further stated that he and his friend Mr. Wilson, who appeared for the defendant, had held a consultation, the result of which was that, with the approval of the Bench, the complainant was willing to accept half the amount of the order, which his friends would provide. Mr Wilson stated that his client had been away in America, and never became cognizant either of the summons or order. He had been away since 1886, and when he returned to visit some friends, he was immediately arrested under a warrant.- The Chairman: Then there is between £60 and £70 due.- Mr.Wilson: Yes.- Mr. Fairburn said his client was willing to accept half the amount - £33 16s., and the Bench having no objection, this course was agreed to. Hope you enjoy the above, particularly the newspaper report - at least we now know who the father of George Albert Flowers was! Marigold

Stranger still..... We are more or less sure that Marigolds Flowers are connected to my William Flowers from Grenoside but we are still sorting it out....William had I believe a brother James who both came from Bristol. However.......Carol could we have met back in Sheffield Archives about 2002???? I was researching Woodhouse/Wilson/Smedley at the time. That's not the strange part of it...... I have 1st cousin 3x removed Ada Florence Compton TRAYFORD who married a James Thomas Goozee in 1891. St Pancras. I know nothing about his family but Goozee shouldn't be that common a name for me to trace. Elaine in Ottawa. Elaine Pickard Sheffield Indexers Site Admin. www.SheffieldIndexers.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Valantine Dugger" <cvdugger@frontiernet.net> To: "Sheffield List" <eng-sheffield@rootsweb.com> Sent: June 22, 2010 1:44 PM Subject: [SHEFF] Flowers > Marigold, this is kind of odd, but I have a Thomas Flowers in my family > tree. He was b. abt 1823 in Braunston, Northampton, married a Rhoda > Thomas > and had several children in the St Pancras London area. > Thomas was apparently a railway clerk. His daughter Flora Flowers married > my ggf William Goozee. > > Do you perchance have information about this Thomas or his family? > > Carol Valantine Dugger > Rio Vista, California > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SHEFFIELD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi List, yes, I do have the right list. And Marigold's Flowers family apparently are unrelated to mine. However, Elaine Pickard and I just discovered we share a common Goozee ancestor. You just never know what you'll find when you go fishing! :) Carol Valantine Dugger Rio Vista, CA

Marigold, this is kind of odd, but I have a Thomas Flowers in my family tree. He was b. abt 1823 in Braunston, Northampton, married a Rhoda Thomas and had several children in the St Pancras London area. Thomas was apparently a railway clerk. His daughter Flora Flowers married my ggf William Goozee. Do you perchance have information about this Thomas or his family? Carol Valantine Dugger Rio Vista, California

Hello Marigold,  I have copied the marriage cert for you and will send off line. No father on it I am afraid.   Carol

Hi list I know that John James TAYLOR married Mary Andrews in Sheffield in 1906 from Freebmd but was wondering if anyone had a way of finding out who John James father was before ordering a bith cert. I have had a look on Sheffield Indexes with no luck. I have found them on 1911 census living as a married couple but I cant make out which John James is the correct one on the 1901 census. I would appreciate any help please. Many thanks June Chatterton A Sheffielder for 57 years UK Tracing family names of BENSON/BENNISON, BRADFORD, CHATTERTON, FIELDSEND, GILLESPIE and variants, HAWLEY, KENN(E)Y, LEMONS & MITCHELL www.junechatterton@blueyonder.co.uk

Christine, Who do you reckon is the George Flower who is with Selina and her son and family in 1881? Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Selina FLOWER Head U Female 34 Bristol, Gloucester, England File Cutter George A. FLOWER Son Male 14 Ecclesfield, York, England Moulders Labourer (Iron) Mary A. FLOWER Daur Female 9 Ecclesfield, York, England Scholar Sarah E. FLOWER Daur Female 4 Ecclesfield, York, England George FLOWER Lodger U Male 25 Ecclesfield, York, England File Cutter Source Information: Dwelling Norfolk Lane Census Place Ecclesfield, York, England Family History Library Film 1342114 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 4616 / 131 I notice that Mary A Flower, daughter of Selina, is surely so named after her mother, who was a Mary Ann? Is that her brother? I notice her father is called George, and in 1861, the lodger is not with the family in Nether Hallam. Do you conclude she named her son George A Flower after her father or the child's father? I have followed a couple of families where there is illegitimacy, and the family have two ways of dealing with it. One is to make sure all public documents, census, birth, marriage and baptismal certificates have no record of the father of the child. Baptism could have been a private affair I suppose. In the above case, we have never have found out the name of the father, even though he did receive a lot of money by way of a will so that he was able to buy a farm, but we are stioll none the wiser if that was the father! The other case involved a fish merchant who had an illegitimate daughter, which only comes out on the marriage certificate, on the father's name! Up to then nothing is mentioned, no bastardy case etc, but then we suppose the mother was able to care of the child without resource to the parish for support. You often see in the newspapers of the day bastardy cases, where the parish is going to great lengths to either make sure the woman has no more illegitimates, and so would cause the parish to have to support them. I did look in the Sheffield & Rotherham Independent for anything to do with Selina Flower/s and couldn't find any record of a Bastardy orders etc. They were certainly plenty of bastardy orders being made at Rotherham Town hall, but none for the Flower/Flowers family so it's likely then that Selina knew the name of the father of her child, and so did her family as well; maybe her father knew it as well, but there was no need to tell the rest of the community, and certainly not officialdom. As long as the child could be brought up by Selina is such circumstances so that the parish would not have to pay for it. John

----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine Pickard" <trayford@rogers.com> To: "(gst) M L Cleeve" <M.L.Cleeve@lboro.ac.uk> Sent: June 19, 2010 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [SHEFF] Flower/Allott marriage > Hi Marigold, > > I believe this family also included two older brothers one being William > Flower who married Martha Ibbotson of Grenoside who is my 2x great > grandmother. I believe the family moved up from Bristol. James Hugh Flower > probably being their father. > > Grenoside is not being that big one would think they had to be somehow > related. > > If you would like to contact me I am willing to share what I have. > > Elaine in Ottawa. Canada. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "(gst) M L Cleeve" <M.L.Cleeve@lboro.ac.uk> > To: <ENG-SHEFFIELD@rootsweb.com> > Sent: June 19, 2010 3:09 PM > Subject: [SHEFF] Flower/Allott marriage > > >> Hi everyone >> >> I wonder if anyone is already planning a visit to the Sheffield Archives >> as I would be very grateful indeed for a lookup in the marriage register >> of St. Mary's, Ecclesfield. >> >> George Albert Flower married Mary Agnes Allott in 1886, between September >> and December of that year. >> >> George Albert appears to have been illegitimate (his mother Selina never >> married, although she lived with a Joseph Bennett in later life and >> pretended to be Mrs Bennett. Selina did not register George Albert's >> birth, nor those of his two sisters who were also illegitimate. >> >> I am very keen to know who is put down as George Albert Flower's father >> in the marriage record of the parish register. >> >> If all else fails I shall have to order the marriage certificate from >> Southport, but I am reluctant to do this at the new prices unless >> absolutely necessary and hope you will understand why I am requesting >> this lookup. >> >> If anyone else in researching the Flower, Allott, and Mollart families of >> Ecclesfield and Grenoside I would be delighted to hear from them and to >> swap information. >> >> Kind regards to all. >> >> Marigold >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-SHEFFIELD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi June, A little more information please. i.e when was he born? from the 1911 census and his occupation please. Elaine in Ottawa. ----- Original Message ----- From: "June Chatterton" <junechatterton@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <ENG-SHEFFIELD@rootsweb.com> Sent: June 20, 2010 3:01 PM Subject: [SHEFF] Marriage of John James TAYLOR to Mary Ann ANDREWS > Hi list > > I know that John James TAYLOR married Mary Andrews in Sheffield in 1906 > from Freebmd but was wondering if anyone had a way of finding out who John > James father was before ordering a bith cert. I have had a look on > Sheffield Indexes with no luck. I have found them on 1911 census living > as a married couple but I cant make out which John James is the correct > one on the 1901 census. I would appreciate any help please. > > Many thanks > June Chatterton > A Sheffielder for 57 years > UK > > Tracing family names of > BENSON/BENNISON, BRADFORD, CHATTERTON, FIELDSEND, GILLESPIE and variants, > HAWLEY, KENN(E)Y, LEMONS & MITCHELL > www.junechatterton@blueyonder.co.uk > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-SHEFFIELD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

www.pontefractfhs.org.uk Badsworth Village Fete is to be held on the 26th June 2010 11.30 to 4.00pm on he school field. he Scarecrow competition this year is a free choice of entry. aps will be available on Thursday the 24th and Friday the 25th June rom the Lawson Hut on Main street and also from the Fete on Sat. the 27th isitors will be able enter a competition based on tracking down the scarecrows. ontefract FHS will be there to sell their publications & give help to anyone nterested in their ancestors. Come along & say hello if you can't make it to he BIG ONE in York (where other members of Pontefract FHS will be) For more information visit Badsworth Village website or Pontefract FHS: www.pontefractfhs.org.uk

Badsworth Village Fete is to be held on the 26th June 2010 11.30 to 4.00pm on the school field. The Scarecrow competition this year is a free choice of entry. Maps will be available on Thursday the 24th and Friday the 25th June from the Lawson Hut on Main street and also from the Fete on Sat. the 27th Visitors will be able enter a competition based on tracking down the scarecrows. Pontefract FHS will be there to sell their publications & give help to anyone interested in their ancestors. Come along & say hello if you can't make it to the BIG ONE in York (where other members of Pontefract FHS will be) For more information visit Badsworth Village website or Pontefract FHS: www.pontefractfhs.org.ukww.pontefractfhs.org.uk

Very many thanks indeed for this information. Somehow I must have fallen into the hole of not checking the surname Flowers as well as Flower! Kind regards Marigold ________________________________________ From: eng-sheffield-bounces@rootsweb.com [eng-sheffield-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Waterhouse [dalum@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 20 June 2010 10:16 To: ENG-SHEFFIELD@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SHEFF] George Albert Flowers > There is a birth for George Albert Flowers June Q 1866 Wortley 9c 217 > although the birth certificate may not give the father's name as he > appears > to be illegitimate on the 1871 Census, giving his mother Selina as > unmarried. > > Christine And I think these are likely to be George's sisters: GRO Births JUN Qtr 1871 FLOWERS Mary Ann Wortley 9c 220 GRO Births MAR Qtr 1877 FLOWERS Sarah Ellen Wortley 9c 309 Hugh ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHEFFIELD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Carol I am very grateful for your kind offer. Very many thanks. Marigold ________________________________________ From: eng-sheffield-bounces@rootsweb.com [eng-sheffield-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of carol cooper [carolrcooper@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 20 June 2010 12:14 To: eng-sheffield@rootsweb.com Subject: [SHEFF] re the flower family Hi Marigold, Re your Flower family, I should be going to the archives on Tuesday and will look these records up for you. carol ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-SHEFFIELD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Marigold, Re your Flower family, I should be going to the archives on Tuesday and will look these records up for you. carol

> There is a birth for George Albert Flowers June Q 1866 Wortley 9c 217 > although the birth certificate may not give the father's name as he > appears > to be illegitimate on the 1871 Census, giving his mother Selina as > unmarried. > > Christine And I think these are likely to be George's sisters: GRO Births JUN Qtr 1871 FLOWERS Mary Ann Wortley 9c 220 GRO Births MAR Qtr 1877 FLOWERS Sarah Ellen Wortley 9c 309 Hugh

Hi Marigold > Hi everyone > > I wonder if anyone is already planning a visit to the Sheffield Archives > as I would be very grateful indeed for a lookup in the marriage register > of St. Mary's, Ecclesfield. > > George Albert Flower married Mary Agnes Allott in 1886, between September > and December of that year. > > George Albert appears to have been illegitimate (his mother Selina never > married, although she lived with a Joseph Bennett in later life and > pretended to be Mrs Bennett. Selina did not register George Albert's > birth, nor those of his two sisters who were also illegitimate. > > I am very keen to know who is put down as George Albert Flower's father in > the marriage record of the parish register. > > If all else fails I shall have to order the marriage certificate from > Southport, but I am reluctant to do this at the new prices unless > absolutely necessary and hope you will understand why I am requesting this > lookup. > > If anyone else in researching the Flower, Allott, and Mollart families of > Ecclesfield and Grenoside I would be delighted to hear from them and to > swap information. There is a birth for George Albert Flowers June Q 1866 Wortley 9c 217 although the birth certificate may not give the father's name as he appears to be illegitimate on the 1871 Census, giving his mother Selina as unmarried. Christine

Hi everyone I wonder if anyone is already planning a visit to the Sheffield Archives as I would be very grateful indeed for a lookup in the marriage register of St. Mary's, Ecclesfield. George Albert Flower married Mary Agnes Allott in 1886, between September and December of that year. George Albert appears to have been illegitimate (his mother Selina never married, although she lived with a Joseph Bennett in later life and pretended to be Mrs Bennett. Selina did not register George Albert's birth, nor those of his two sisters who were also illegitimate. I am very keen to know who is put down as George Albert Flower's father in the marriage record of the parish register. If all else fails I shall have to order the marriage certificate from Southport, but I am reluctant to do this at the new prices unless absolutely necessary and hope you will understand why I am requesting this lookup. If anyone else in researching the Flower, Allott, and Mollart families of Ecclesfield and Grenoside I would be delighted to hear from them and to swap information. Kind regards to all. Marigold

Hello everyone I only 'half saw' the programme as I was doing something else at the same time. What I think is great about it is that it has triggered all kinds of people in this community of the Sheffield List and no doubt other family history communities to share their thinking about issues relating to family history research. We have been reminded that there are people doing research from different parts of the world and whose roots are in different countries and cultures. I have been fascinated by the comments so thank you to all those who have contributed. I am one of those people who isn't really all that bothered about BMD going back to the middle ages but I fully understand the importance of that to some people. We all get our 'buzz' from different things within the 'Hobby' (though I am pretty well full time!). What I love is the research into the villages or areas where they lived, the jobs they did, the firms they worked for and trying to work out what triggered a move from A to B. I feel this helps me to get to know them. My most recent research has uncovered a previously unknown 4th cousin and his daughter in Australia. I met Janet when she came to the UK a little while ago. Arthur is 95 and is currently proof-reading my latest piece of research. (He was a professional proof reader for a newspaper). Documents pass between us via email. One chapter is his WW2 story. I know a bit about WW2 as it is a special interest of mine having been born during it but it was fascinating to read about his experiences in WW2 as a serviceman in the Australian forces. It was quite a different perspective on the event. Anyway thanks again for all the really stimulating views expressed...it has made me realise that the List is well and truly alive and long may it continue! Best wishes Pauline Bell Researching: Bailey,Barnsley, Barber, Bell, Cooper, Froggatt, Leclere, Shaw

Hello ,although I pay monthly for Ancestry my package does not give me access to Passenger list details and I wondered if sks would help me. I would like the details of Enid O'Connor on the UK Incoming Passenger List please There are 8 entries Many thanks Sue in Sheffield

This didn't appear on the list this morning  ,so sending it again. Apologies if it appears on there twice. Wondered if Ancestry had a hand in it? <<I find that you can access more records on Ancestry in the Library edition, which is accessible free, in libraries, colleges and archives. Last week I found a marriage and baptism in the London parish records on Ancestry, while in the archives. When I tried to access the same file at home, putting in my password, it just directed me to update to Premium subscription.>> carol ps  Have enjoyed reading all the info relating to Sundays WDYTYA. It certainly  created a storm. When is the next one on. It said it was one of 6 progs. but don't think it appears on the TV listings for next Sunday?