It seems unlikely that a medal would be awarded simply for reaching 50 years of age ?! Could he have been an employee who had done a job for a long time? Was he born in Sheffield? If so, is he Charles James (JUN Qtr) or Charles Howard (SEP Qtr) who were born in Sheffield in 1886? If this was marking a birthday it would of course be useful to know his exact date of birth when looking at newspapers. Hugh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Jeffery" <[email protected]> To: "sheffield mailing list" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:04 AM Subject: [SHEFF] Sheffield 1936 as a 50year old > > Gooday all from a very wet Queenslander 100kms north of Brisbane, > I have heard from a couple of relatives that my grandfather, > Charlie Jeffery born in 1886, was given something maybe a medallion or the > like when he reached 50 years of age in 1936. As far as I can ascertain it > was from the local Sheffield council and there was possibly a write up in > the newspaper. Can anyone throw some light on this matter for me? Also still > searching for descendants of my grandfather's brother George Jeffery born > 1880 and had 13 children. > > Thanks Alan J Jeffery >

I think this is more likely that Charlie received the, LONG SERVICE MEDAL. for working with Sheffield Council. My Father had one presented in 1955 after being with the Central Telegraph office in London for twenty five years. Margaret Notts. Uk

Hi all, In accounts what does compensation to workers mean? Thanks for any thoughts. Jane in Redcar

In a message dated 10/02/2008 17:33:20 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: In accounts what does compensation to workers mean? Hi There are several ways of looking at this. Firstly if they were having their employment terminated then they would receive adequate compensation. They may have had their working hours or working practices altered and this was to ensure that they didn't lose any pay because of it. It really mean exactly what it says. regards JUDY ELKINGTON [W.R.Yorkshire, England] www.elkingtonfamily.com [email protected] www.one-name.org/profiles/elkington.html

In a message dated 04/02/2008 17:51:20 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: when the Rochdale Canal was completed in 1804 there was a direct canal link from Hull to Manchester, and hence Liverpool. (It had some 92 locks!) Hi I bet they offered you free passage for a turn with the key. Judy.

Folks Let me thank all the people who responded to my question about travel before railways. Your comments have given me many new avenues to explore. One final comment which I should have included in my first email was that when the Rochdale Canal was completed in 1804 there was a direct canal link from Hull to Manchester, and hence Liverpool. (It had some 92 locks!) Sincerely -- Ernest Burniston Raleigh, North Carolina

I know that assumptions shouldn't be made, but I have a family who travelled from Leek, Staffs, to Handsworth,Sheffield and I have always thought that because the road went from Leek to Buxton and then on to Sheffield, that this family would have travelled by cart, because the whole family seems to have moved except for their eldest son who stayed in Leek. They were wheelwrights and probably moved to where their was work. Lilian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 03 February 2008 08:06 To: [email protected] Subject: ENG-SHEFFIELD Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 Today's Topics: 1. Travel before railways. (Ernest Burniston) 2. Re: Travel before railways. ([email protected]) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 08:52:39 -0500 From: "Ernest Burniston" <[email protected]> Subject: [SHEFF] Travel before railways. To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Folks I have tried for some time to find information on costs of travel for poor people before the Railway Act of 1844. The reason for this stems from one of my ancestors. He was born and raised in the Hull area but in 1834 he married a woman from the Manchester area, in fact they married in Manchester Cathedral. My question is how did he travel back and forth between Hull and Manchester, some 100 miles? It would appear that he had 2 choices: stagecoach and barge. From the little data I have been able to gather stagecoach fares were quite expensive, certainly for a poor person. This leaves barges. However they were towed by horses and only managed some 3 m.p.h. Thus this method would take several days, depending on the number of locks. Since most barges were self-owned, I gather that fares were negotiated. Is this true? . If anyone has any info on this I would certainly appreciate it. -- Ernest Burniston Raleigh, North Carolina ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 17:38:56 EST From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SHEFF] Travel before railways. To: [email protected], [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 02/02/2008 13:53:42 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I have tried for some time to find information on costs of travel for poor people before the Railway Act of 1844. The reason for this stems from one of my ancestors. He was born and raised in the Hull area but in 1834 he married a woman from the Manchester area, in fact they married in Manchester Cathedral. My question is how did he travel back and forth between Hull and Manchester, some 100 miles? It would appear that he had 2 choices: stagecoach and barge. From the little data I have been able to gather stagecoach fares were quite expensive, certainly for a poor person. This leaves barges. However they were towed by horses and only managed some 3 m.p.h. Thus this method would take several days, depending on the number of locks. Since most barges were self-owned, I gather that fares were negotiated. Is this true? Hi During my researches of the period I have found that people travelled quite large distances either on foot or by a cart, hitch-hiking from place to place. My own relatives travelled quiet a lot and this was the method employed by them. They often walked great distances. Certainly if they could find another means of transport then it would be taken. Obviously a boat owner could use his discretion about carrying passenger and a fee would be negotiable. Canal boats were a good option if they went to the place you were going to but they weren't always a direct route. My husband's gt.gt.grandfather was a Carter like his father, carrying goods all over and if he saw a lone walker I am sure he would offer a lift if he had room. There was no direct means of transport and one travelled from town to town until the destination was reached. You cannot assume that anyone travelled a certain way and really need direct proof of this. Even the Railway Act of 1844 meant that those with the means could pay for this type of travel but a low wage was a pittance and hardly afforded Rail Travel. regards JUDY ELKINGTON [W.R.Yorkshire, England] www.elkingtonfamily.com [email protected] www.one-name.org/profiles/elkington.html ------------------------------ To contact the ENG-SHEFFIELD list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the ENG-SHEFFIELD mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of ENG-SHEFFIELD Digest, Vol 3, Issue 27 ********************************************

I can confirm what Judy says, my Grandparents moved from Eckington to North of Doncster with their belonging to move from Renishaw Park Coliery to Brodsworth Main Colliery via hand cart. They had 4 young children too. Regards Kay-UK -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 02 February 2008 23:39 To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [SHEFF] Travel before railways. In a message dated 02/02/2008 13:53:42 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I have tried for some time to find information on costs of travel for poor people before the Railway Act of 1844. The reason for this stems from one of my ancestors. He was born and raised in the Hull area but in 1834 he married a woman from the Manchester area, in fact they married in Manchester Cathedral. My question is how did he travel back and forth between Hull and Manchester, some 100 miles? It would appear that he had 2 choices: stagecoach and barge. From the little data I have been able to gather stagecoach fares were quite expensive, certainly for a poor person. This leaves barges. However they were towed by horses and only managed some 3 m.p.h. Thus this method would take several days, depending on the number of locks. Since most barges were self-owned, I gather that fares were negotiated. Is this true? Hi During my researches of the period I have found that people travelled quite large distances either on foot or by a cart, hitch-hiking from place to place. My own relatives travelled quiet a lot and this was the method employed by them. They often walked great distances. Certainly if they could find another means of transport then it would be taken. Obviously a boat owner could use his discretion about carrying passenger and a fee would be negotiable. Canal boats were a good option if they went to the place you were going to but they weren't always a direct route. My husband's gt.gt.grandfather was a Carter like his father, carrying goods all over and if he saw a lone walker I am sure he would offer a lift if he had room. There was no direct means of transport and one travelled from town to town until the destination was reached. You cannot assume that anyone travelled a certain way and really need direct proof of this. Even the Railway Act of 1844 meant that those with the means could pay for this type of travel but a low wage was a pittance and hardly afforded Rail Travel. regards JUDY ELKINGTON [W.R.Yorkshire, England] www.elkingtonfamily.com [email protected] www.one-name.org/profiles/elkington.html No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1256 - Release Date: 02/02/2008 13:50

Here is a piece taken from a handwritten document found in Sheffield Archives which I copied out some years ago. I believe it was taken from a newspaper article. It was dated 1850 but refers back to an earlier time. "Taken from Origin of the Principle trades in Sheffield, Being extracts from the Historical and traditional account of the Town and Vicinage Written and compiled by Charles Dixon" I don't have the full reference to hand, but could find it if anyone is interested. The many mistakes are mine. The Conveyance of Goods by Pack Horses Sheffield Times Let us consider what was done in days of old before 1710 in which year a person of the name of Wright of Mansfield introduced the first Stage Waggon all public travelling was equestrian and the conveyance of all bulk and weight was affected by carriages as distinguished from the principle of draughts - the Burden was fitted to the animals back - which not infrequently was but ill fitted to bear it - and stumbling along cross roads - crossing rivers - & climbing steeps - the jaded brute day by day finished his weary route - but in all this we must in imagination for a century & half or more - and at early dawn a principle thoroughfare in Sheffield presented a scene not unlike what may be found in Cairo - when a caravan is preparing to cross the Deserts on its journey - and the patient camels are submitting to the imposition of enormous bales of merchandise which the owners are heaping on their rugged sides. [illegible] as however the Beast of Burden is the Pack Horse - of which a train of not less than fifty in number is undergoing the process of loading. Some kindly hand of a bystander - or the littered hay upon the Causeway occasionally affords the submissive animal a mouthful to occupy its time before starting and reconcile him to the endurance of an extra package or two - most of the Horses are freighted with goods only - the manufacturys of our citizens & those comprise the heavy portion of the cavalcade - but another market stock - both live and dead is piled up to a lofty eminance - including grain - & poultry - vegetables and even pigs - not without considerable noise and contests are some of these creatures deposited in their crates & then secured across the Horses loins and when the Indles[?] are fitted on the hock and the leaders of it begin to prick their ears and toss their heads - on the signal of readiness being given to start then little bells which ornament the harness and cheer the steps of them & their companions produce a confused but yet merry tingle and carry forth a multitude of Human beings from the Inn before which the preparations have been going on - this company consists of travellers with their friends and merchants who are either accompanying their wares or on some other business are journeying to the Capital. Perched on high amidst boxes and bundles - children and women - old men and maidens (even as Rodene[?] Random sat of old) are then slowed away amidst the tears or laughter of their acquaintance they are leaving - whilst the more active of the men either starting on foot or more easily bestride [illegible] a beast which has some appearance of saddle & pollien[?] on its back - complete the preliminary arrangements and the orders for march are given. Onward they move through the Town into the Country on roads on which a track is paved for the especial use of the Pack Horse train but lanes have to be traversed which have no roads yet in which dust holes constantly occur - the practise of which produces to both man and horse a jolt like a shock of electricity - anon they emerge from one of these blind alleys and a green & level sward opens before the Travellers sight - which cheers him with the prospect of more easy riding - alas - more deceitful than the vision of the Broken - the smooth lawn is trodden with increased caution by the snorting horses - the experienced old leader like the bell wether of a flock takes a devious course of his own in which he is strictly followed by the long train of animals behind him & when he is enveloped in a dense mist which exhales from the untamed soil beneath - for it is a bog they are crossing - the bill [or both?] of his Indles [illegible] as sensibly[?] as a lantern at midnight the only safe path which his oft tried sagacity had chosen - and along this for miles before they have passed the peril - the bewildered travellers have silently submitted to be borne - But neither the danger nor the days work is over - their course is now opened when a river - which in ordinary seasons is easily fordable but is at present swollen over its banks by heavy rains and it must be crossed before there [illegible] be an opportunity of resting and here if any where the live stock betray themselves - how can geese be still in panniers where water is audibly rushing under their webbed feet - or ducks be silent in the same tantalising situation - but if delight and animation swell their cry - fear operates with the like effect in [illegible] women and children and a hubbub arises the wildest and most discontinent from various [illegible] of the equine [illegible] - but no one is injured the opposite shore is reached without more suffering than apprehension - and a little splashing inflict - the hardy carriers make light to the company they are conducting of these and all similar difficulties as well as the present one with which they themselves are familiar as an highland [illegible] of our own time and with a cheering prospect of food bed and a smoking rasher - which the [2 words illegible] of a village Church with the light of the setting sun upon it testifies they cannot now be more than a mile off they once more from the order of march & proceed. Such was the travelling and transport of goods in days of yore Sheffield Times Janet

In a message dated 02/02/2008 13:53:42 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I have tried for some time to find information on costs of travel for poor people before the Railway Act of 1844. The reason for this stems from one of my ancestors. He was born and raised in the Hull area but in 1834 he married a woman from the Manchester area, in fact they married in Manchester Cathedral. My question is how did he travel back and forth between Hull and Manchester, some 100 miles? It would appear that he had 2 choices: stagecoach and barge. From the little data I have been able to gather stagecoach fares were quite expensive, certainly for a poor person. This leaves barges. However they were towed by horses and only managed some 3 m.p.h. Thus this method would take several days, depending on the number of locks. Since most barges were self-owned, I gather that fares were negotiated. Is this true? Hi During my researches of the period I have found that people travelled quite large distances either on foot or by a cart, hitch-hiking from place to place. My own relatives travelled quiet a lot and this was the method employed by them. They often walked great distances. Certainly if they could find another means of transport then it would be taken. Obviously a boat owner could use his discretion about carrying passenger and a fee would be negotiable. Canal boats were a good option if they went to the place you were going to but they weren't always a direct route. My husband's gt.gt.grandfather was a Carter like his father, carrying goods all over and if he saw a lone walker I am sure he would offer a lift if he had room. There was no direct means of transport and one travelled from town to town until the destination was reached. You cannot assume that anyone travelled a certain way and really need direct proof of this. Even the Railway Act of 1844 meant that those with the means could pay for this type of travel but a low wage was a pittance and hardly afforded Rail Travel. regards JUDY ELKINGTON [W.R.Yorkshire, England] www.elkingtonfamily.com [email protected] www.one-name.org/profiles/elkington.html

Folks I have tried for some time to find information on costs of travel for poor people before the Railway Act of 1844. The reason for this stems from one of my ancestors. He was born and raised in the Hull area but in 1834 he married a woman from the Manchester area, in fact they married in Manchester Cathedral. My question is how did he travel back and forth between Hull and Manchester, some 100 miles? It would appear that he had 2 choices: stagecoach and barge. From the little data I have been able to gather stagecoach fares were quite expensive, certainly for a poor person. This leaves barges. However they were towed by horses and only managed some 3 m.p.h. Thus this method would take several days, depending on the number of locks. Since most barges were self-owned, I gather that fares were negotiated. Is this true? . If anyone has any info on this I would certainly appreciate it. -- Ernest Burniston Raleigh, North Carolina

Dear Charlotte, Sheffield Parish Church became the Cathedral for the Diocese of Sheffield in 1914. There is also an Artisan View in the parish of Christ Church, Heeley which was created in 1846. Chris Reaney (S. Wales) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Charlotte Edwards Sent: 31 January 2008 22:56 To: [email protected] Subject: [SHEFF] Sussex Street in 1851, Artizan Street in 1861 - what Sheffield churches? Hi, I am trying to figure out what church would have been near where the WRIGHT family lived in 1851 & 1861. In 1851 they lived at Sussex Street. On today's streetmap, I find that between Effingham St and Cricket Inn Road. and google shows the Cathedral Church of St Peter and St Paul about half a mile away. Would this have been the nearest church in 1851? By 1861 they were living at Artizan Street. I can't find that in Streetmap, but google gave me some OS coordinates that come out south of Rutland, near today's Dixon St and Cornish St. This still seems to be with half a mile of St Peter and St Paul.? What other churches would have been nearby at that time? The 1851 marriage took place at the Parish Church in the Parish of Sheffield. However, looking at the list of Sheffield Churches on Genuki, I cannot figure out which one would be the parish church at that time. Would it be the Cathedral mentioned above? I have printed out a parish map of Sheffield, but am having difficulty figuring out where the parishes were in relation to the streets in existence then. Thanks Charlotte Edwards Vancouver, BC, Canada ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Charlotte, When a church is described simply as 'The Parish Church of Sheffield' it almost always means the original parish church of St Peter and St Paul which is now the Cathedral (but it only became a Cathedral in 1914). Until the mid 1840's Sheffield was one huge parish. As well as the Parish Church there were several chapels-of-ease which later became parish churches in their own right. After the mid 1840's many other parishes were created with newly founded churches. In 1851 the nearest church to Sussex Street was one of those new churches, St John, Park. This church is still in use and has its own website: http://stjohnparkchurchshef.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ But note that Sheffield parish church continued to be used by many people for some time - a question of habit and family tradition I think. Artisan Street is shown on the 1855 ordnance survey map at http://www.old-maps.co.uk - coordinates 434700 388400. It was a stone's throw from St Philip's Church, one of the chapels-of-ease which was opened in 1828 and became a parish church c1848. There is no trace left of this church. However, I also wonder whether there may not have been an Artisan Street in Heeley, quite a different part of the city, where there is a street called Artisan View . Do you have the 1861 census reference which would quickly confirm or refute that possibility? Hugh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Edwards" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 10:56 PM Subject: [SHEFF] Sussex Street in 1851, Artizan Street in 1861 - what Sheffield churches? > Hi, > > I am trying to figure out what church would have been near where the > WRIGHT family lived in 1851 & 1861. > > In 1851 they lived at Sussex Street. On today's streetmap, I find that > between Effingham St and Cricket Inn Road. and google shows the > Cathedral Church of St Peter and St Paul about half a mile away. Would > this have been the nearest church in 1851? > > By 1861 they were living at Artizan Street. I can't find that in > Streetmap, but google gave me some OS coordinates that come out south of > Rutland, near today's Dixon St and Cornish St. This still seems to be > with half a mile of St Peter and St Paul.? What other churches would > have been nearby at that time? > > The 1851 marriage took place at the Parish Church in the Parish of > Sheffield. However, looking at the list of Sheffield Churches on Genuki, > I cannot figure out which one would be the parish church at that time. > Would it be the Cathedral mentioned above? > > I have printed out a parish map of Sheffield, but am having difficulty > figuring out where the parishes were in relation to the streets in > existence then. > > Thanks > Charlotte Edwards > Vancouver, BC, Canada

Hi, I am trying to figure out what church would have been near where the WRIGHT family lived in 1851 & 1861. In 1851 they lived at Sussex Street. On today's streetmap, I find that between Effingham St and Cricket Inn Road. and google shows the Cathedral Church of St Peter and St Paul about half a mile away. Would this have been the nearest church in 1851? By 1861 they were living at Artizan Street. I can't find that in Streetmap, but google gave me some OS coordinates that come out south of Rutland, near today's Dixon St and Cornish St. This still seems to be with half a mile of St Peter and St Paul.? What other churches would have been nearby at that time? The 1851 marriage took place at the Parish Church in the Parish of Sheffield. However, looking at the list of Sheffield Churches on Genuki, I cannot figure out which one would be the parish church at that time. Would it be the Cathedral mentioned above? I have printed out a parish map of Sheffield, but am having difficulty figuring out where the parishes were in relation to the streets in existence then. Thanks Charlotte Edwards Vancouver, BC, Canada

Hello all, Does anyone have access to Sheffield burial records - looking for David Robson Taylor of 14 Huntley Road, Sheffield died 16 Dec 1969. I am trying to find the death of his wife Elsie Taylor, born Dec qtr 1890 and died sometime after Feb 1970. I am hoping to find them buried together and therefore find when she died. Also trying to find Jack Robson Taylor, born 30/5/1920 and married Renee. Thankyou Christine Perth WAust

Many thanks to everyone who answered my question on occupations. Barbara Horne.

My mother had a shop in Rawmarsh, and she used to call the wholesale salesmen who used to call in the shop on a monthly basis "Travellers". I appreciate though that this was a century later. Hilary ----- Original Message ---- From: WILLIAM HORNE <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, 26 January, 2008 10:04:56 PM Subject: [SHEFF] Occupations. I recently sent for a marriage certificate and the fathers occupation was Traveller. What would a Traveller have done in the 1840's? Barbara Horne. Reseaching, Biggin, Bright, Heaton, Miles, Oxley, Potts, all in Sheffield. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com

I recently sent for a marriage certificate and the fathers occupation was Traveller. What would a Traveller have done in the 1840's? Barbara Horne. Reseaching, Biggin, Bright, Heaton, Miles, Oxley, Potts, all in Sheffield.

In a message dated 26/01/2008 22:14:28 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I recently sent for a marriage certificate and the fathers occupation was Traveller. What would a Traveller have done in the 1840's? Hi This is perhaps a difficult question to fathom. Taken literally he could have been a gypsy type of fellow moving from town to town. You could possibly prove this by looking on the census before or after his entry to see if he was at the same address.. The other kind of Traveller would be a man who travelled between businesses selling the products of the Company he worked for. He wouldn't be a seller of food, mainly fowls, as they were called hucksters. regards JUDY ELKINGTON [W.R.Yorkshire, England] www.elkingtonfamily.com [email protected] www.one-name.org/profiles/elkington.html

Hello Ernest, Narrowing down the possible date of death... In White's 1911 Directory William B WARD, manager, is listed at 307 Gleadless Road. In White's 1919/20 Directory the householder is Henry WARD (j) cutler. (j=journeyman). Of course he may still be living in 1911, in the same household with Henry as head, or elsewhere. I noted a much earlier burial of a Mary WARD of 307 Gleadless Road, at Christ Church Heeley (7 Apr 1878 aged 40). I wonder if William B may have been buried there. (the index only goes up to 1906). Hugh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest Burniston" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 8:22 PM Subject: [SHEFF] William Beldon Ward > Folks > > I wonder if anyone has this individual in their past. I have him in the > 1871,1881,1891 and 1901 census. I have his birth in 1840. However I cannot > find either of his marriages or his death in the GRO. In the 1881, 1891 and > 1901 census he is living at 307 Gleadless Road. His second "wife" was Sarah > Ann Burniston, my ggrandmother. The only thing I know about his first > "wife" is that her name was Martha and she died in 1873. > Thanks in advance. > -- > Ernest Burniston > Raleigh, North Carolina