Helen: I truly wish I could help you since you have been so much help to me over the past year or two. I have found that the naming patterns have been very helpful particularly when the same ones are used over and over again in the following generations. I note that there is no "Ann" or "Francis" among the children listed for Thomas and Isabella. Perhaps this is entirely due to the nature of the birth of Thomas that he failed to name a child after his father or mother. If the names occur in the HOPPS family, it might suggest a connection, however, circumstantial. Nancy Vogt WI, USA My web page: http://community.webtv.net/nanspage