Laura, I don't think you are barking up the wrong tree at all, I think it is a distant branch by marriage of my own. And you have solved one question for me! I had previously looked and looked for Richard Steel on the 1901 census index, with no success. Never thought to look under Dick and Steel was spelt with an e on the end as well. I do think it is the correct family, most of these people married others within the same district, so I had reasoned that Richard would have been born somewhere near Knayton. I have the MIs for South Otterington Parish. A few years ago I went to great expense, considering the currency exchange rate, to purchase a few. I found these entries, which you may already have - "In loving memory of John 2nd son of Joseph & Emma Steel of Leach Green d. 2 Jan 1894 aged 19 yrs. Also Joseph Steel father of the above d. 17 May 1925 aged 83 yrs. Peacefully resting." "In loving memory of Emma beloved wife of the late Joseph Steel d. 31 Mar 1941 aged 90yrs. Also George Bielby son of the above d. 31 Jan 1941 aged 50yrs." "In loving memory of Mary Hannah Steel bn 4 Mar 1877 d. 4 Jun 1968. At rest." Re your comment about Richard inheriting Knayton Grange. Was there more than one farm at Knayton Grange? Would it be more likely that Richard was a tenant farmer? There used to be a system whereby three generations of one family were guaranteed tenure, it was called "copyhold". If my Hamilton family had the farm under that scheme, Richard's marriage to Eliza may have seen him slot in as the third generation. Especially as Eliza's brother had so recently died. It wasn't until the 1920s, I think, that people were encouraged to buy the land they farmed. Only the very wealthy actually owned land, my family were all tenant farmers for centuries. If you go back through the list archives for 2002, there was a thread on this subject called "property tenures". Where in the world, do you live? If it is the UK, have you ever purchased the wills of any of your ancestors? If someone had died around the time of Richard's marriage, the will might give a clue to any inheritance. I have rambled on. Keep on nibbling away at it, I feel very sure that we are talking about the same family. Regards Ailsa Laura Broughton wrote: > Hello, sorry to take you by suprise! > > I am very confused by all this, i will explain. My HARLAND line farmed > at knayton grange for years. My great grandfather is Christopher > Thompson HARLAND b.1898 and married Elsie STEELE b.1894. Elsie was one > of something like 12 or 13 children to Joseph STEELE and Emma HYDE. My > grandmother remembers most of these (aunties and uncles) and managed to > reel most of their names off to me, which i then confirmed on various > censuses. This includes a george and a richard, although he was more > commonly called Dick, and the census records his name as this too. So > this would also link in as George being a witness to his brothers wedding. > > I think that Dick perhaps inherited the farm at knayton grange somehow? > But why would he get that farm, it was in the HARLAND family at the > time, and when Elsie STEELE (his sister?) married my great grandfather > Christopher Thompson HARLAND they went to live in Ellerbeck, > Northallerton where my grandmother and mother were born. This is very > mysterious! > > I will stop now as i am most probably barking up the wrong tree (haha!), > but let me know if im not, its all a bit exciting! > > Laura Broughton -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/03/2006

Hi I thought that telling you his name was Dick/Dicke might have shed some light for you, have you seen the Census return for him while he lived at home with his parents, siblings, servants and mother in law?! Its a huge amount of people! The 1881 census is crazy (sorry for it all just wonkily fitting in, might be better to copy and paste this into a word document or text file you can resize), note the mother in law living with them,emmas mother: Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island Servants George Allen abt 1863 Kirby Wiske, Yorkshire, England Servant Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Robert Cummins abt 1863 Bishop Auckland, Durham, England Servant Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Henry Dollitt abt 1861 Knapton, Yorkshire, England Servant Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Robert Hudson abt 1859 Acklam, Yorkshire, England Servant Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Thomas Lambert abt 1864 Carlton Minniott, Yorkshire, England Servant Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England William Wardell abt 1861 Acklam, Yorkshire, England Servant Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England John Wilton abt 1863 Brafferton, Yorkshire, England Servant Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Maria Roy abt 1866 Knaresbrough, Yorkshire, England Servant Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Family Members Mary Hyde abt 1824 Garton, Yorkshire, England Mother in Law Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Anne Steele abt 1872 Yorkshire, Yorkshire, England Daughter Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Emma Steele abt 1852 Garton, Yorkshire, England Wife Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Emma Steele abt 1879 South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Daughter Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England John Steele abt 1875 Langton, Yorkshire, England Son Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Joseph Steele abt 1843 Whitwell, Yorkshire, England Head Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Joseph J. Steele abt 1881 South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Son Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Mary Steele abt 1877 Langton, Yorkshire, England Daughter Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England Thomas Steele abt 1874 Langton, Yorkshire, England Son Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England William Steele abt 1876 Langton, Yorkshire, England Son Leech Green, South Otterington, Yorkshire, England The 1901 isnt as bad but note "Michall" Hyde living with them (as a "beast man" on their farm). It states he is an uncle, but this should be in relation to the head, joseph. This seems unlikely as i think it is Emmas brother, i think her father was Michael, so its likely her brother was named after him. Still a little confusing! I havnt access to the other censuses, i cant afford any subscriptions, im nearly finished University (about three more months!) and then i can take one out when i have a little more money! I would be very interested too see the picture of Dick Steele, my grandmother remembers him so it would be great too see if i can show it to her and jog her memory. She is a proper Yorkshire grandmother and knows everything about everyone. She mentioned that one of the many brothers and sisters to Dick was mentally disabled or something, i havnt been able to look at the original census image to see if there is anything marked down in the disabilities section. One of them she remembers was called "Aunt Pem" but im not sure which one or what Pem is short for. My great grandmother was Elsie Steele, who unfortunatly died a couple of years after giving birth to my grandmother Gwyneth Harland. I have a picture if you would like too see if there is any resemblance, they have quite distinct features :-) Those parish entries are facinating, that is my great great grandparents Joseph and Emma. When im not at University home is classed as Northallerton, practically next to South Otterington. I havnt had chance to visit there but if i do in the next couple of months i will try and go on a mission to South Otterington and the Northallerton Record Office. I would also like to visit Knayton Grange, but i dont know if it is there any more. I have a few old maps of Northallerton and Ripon area which show Knayton grange on it. I am going to see if i can scan this in for you. I would like to purchase the wills, it is only recently it occured to me to look into getting these documents as i got sent one made out by my 8th great grandfather on the other side! (not related to the steele lineage). Where can you get these from? i will have too see if i can look into this for you :-) phew, i will stop typing now! Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ailsa Petrie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [NYorks] Ailsa Petrie: a question! > Laura, > > I don't think you are barking up the wrong tree at all, I think it is a > distant branch by marriage of my own. And you have solved one question for > me! I had previously looked and looked for Richard Steel on the 1901 > census index, with no success. Never thought to look under Dick and Steel > was spelt with an e on the end as well. I do think it is the correct > family, most of these people married others within the same district, so I > had reasoned that Richard would have been born somewhere near Knayton. > > I have the MIs for South Otterington Parish. A few years ago I went to > great expense, considering the currency exchange rate, to purchase a few. > I found these entries, which you may already have - > > "In loving memory of John 2nd son of Joseph & Emma Steel of Leach Green d. > 2 Jan 1894 aged 19 yrs. Also Joseph Steel father of the above d. 17 May > 1925 aged 83 yrs. Peacefully resting." > > "In loving memory of Emma beloved wife of the late Joseph Steel d. 31 Mar > 1941 aged 90yrs. Also George Bielby son of the above d. 31 Jan 1941 aged > 50yrs." > > "In loving memory of Mary Hannah Steel bn 4 Mar 1877 d. 4 Jun 1968. At > rest." > > Re your comment about Richard inheriting Knayton Grange. Was there more > than one farm at Knayton Grange? Would it be more likely that Richard was > a tenant farmer? There used to be a system whereby three generations of > one family were guaranteed tenure, it was called "copyhold". If my > Hamilton family had the farm under that scheme, Richard's marriage to > Eliza may have seen him slot in as the third generation. Especially as > Eliza's brother had so recently died. It wasn't until the 1920s, I think, > that people were encouraged to buy the land they farmed. Only the very > wealthy actually owned land, my family were all tenant farmers for > centuries. If you go back through the list archives for 2002, there was a > thread on this subject called "property tenures". > > Where in the world, do you live? If it is the UK, have you ever purchased > the wills of any of your ancestors? If someone had died around the time of > Richard's marriage, the will might give a clue to any inheritance. > > I have rambled on. Keep on nibbling away at it, I feel very sure that we > are talking about the same family. > > Regards > Ailsa > > Laura Broughton wrote: >> Hello, sorry to take you by suprise! >> >> I am very confused by all this, i will explain. My HARLAND line farmed >> at knayton grange for years. My great grandfather is Christopher >> Thompson HARLAND b.1898 and married Elsie STEELE b.1894. Elsie was one >> of something like 12 or 13 children to Joseph STEELE and Emma HYDE. My >> grandmother remembers most of these (aunties and uncles) and managed to >> reel most of their names off to me, which i then confirmed on various >> censuses. This includes a george and a richard, although he was more >> commonly called Dick, and the census records his name as this too. So >> this would also link in as George being a witness to his brothers >> wedding. >> >> I think that Dick perhaps inherited the farm at knayton grange somehow? >> But why would he get that farm, it was in the HARLAND family at the time, >> and when Elsie STEELE (his sister?) married my great grandfather >> Christopher Thompson HARLAND they went to live in Ellerbeck, >> Northallerton where my grandmother and mother were born. This is very >> mysterious! >> >> I will stop now as i am most probably barking up the wrong tree (haha!), >> but let me know if im not, its all a bit exciting! >> >> Laura Broughton > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/03/2006 > > > ==== ENG-NORTH-YORKS Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the ENG-NORTH-YORKS list, send the command > "unsubscribe" to > [email protected] (if in mail mode) or > [email protected] (if in digest mode.) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >