Have you contacted the Ripon FHS? They might have someone who is linked? Sheila -----Original Message----- From: eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jean Greenwood Sent: 03 February 2008 15:02 To: eng-north-yorks@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] Sarah Ann SPENCE Hi Roz Thanks for your twopennorth! As I have birth records for all the family I haven't bothered too much abt baps as I know many records missing and it may be the children were bap in Kirkby Malzeard. This family is one of the reasons for the many Spences in Ripon as my gggrandfather James and wife Sarah [Lambert] had 14 children - 13 survivng - but there was another Spence family in Ripon and many others in the area - probably all related from way back. Sarah Ann is the only one I cannot trace after 1881 but I guess if she wants to be found it will happen <g>. Cheers Jean ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Roz Thanks for your twopennorth! As I have birth records for all the family I haven't bothered too much abt baps as I know many records missing and it may be the children were bap in Kirkby Malzeard. This family is one of the reasons for the many Spences in Ripon as my gggrandfather James and wife Sarah [Lambert] had 14 children - 13 survivng - but there was another Spence family in Ripon and many others in the area - probably all related from way back. Sarah Ann is the only one I cannot trace after 1881 but I guess if she wants to be found it will happen <g>. Cheers Jean

Hi Jean, Rather a late response, but I offer my twopennorth regardless! No trace of a baptism for Sarah Ann in Ripon PRs, though the Spence name is very numerous. The only Sarah Ann baptised C of E (Holy Trinity) was a Sarah Ann CAMBAGE in 1847. Might your Sarah Ann have been a Methodist? No doubt you have Sarah's birth registration - Sep qtr 1848, Ripon reg. district, Vol.XXIII, p. 555 (or 558 - not clear). Checking the different families in the 1891 census I would agree with your surmise about the SIMPSON marriage - only three Sarah Anns born in Ripon at the right time at roughyl the right date, one of which is indeed a SIMPSON. Good luck with the hunt! Regards, Roz

Ignore previous messages as the Ripon family were still there in 1901, amazing 2 families with the same childrens names!! I'll check again to find the right ones -----Original Message----- From: eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jean Greenwood Sent: 02 February 2008 13:06 To: eng-north-yorks@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] 1901 look up please Thank you Rosemary. As this couple have grown up sons they're obviously not the 1896 marriage so my Sarah Ann remains a mystery! Thanks again Jean ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jean, they were all in Aismunderby cum Bondgate in 1891, William was a general hawker so unless he was married to 2 Sarah Ann's he's not yours I am afraid. In 1881 William was a marine dealer with Sarah Ann aged 35 and family Sheila -----Original Message----- From: eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jean Greenwood Sent: 02 February 2008 13:06 To: eng-north-yorks@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] 1901 look up please Thank you Rosemary. As this couple have grown up sons they're obviously not the 1896 marriage so my Sarah Ann remains a mystery! Thanks again Jean ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Unless he was a widower!! -----Original Message----- From: eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jean Greenwood Sent: 02 February 2008 13:06 To: eng-north-yorks@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] 1901 look up please Thank you Rosemary. As this couple have grown up sons they're obviously not the 1896 marriage so my Sarah Ann remains a mystery! Thanks again Jean ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Peter and Sheila for the interest - I'd just checked the 1881 myself and found the Ripon entry as there was no obvious connection between living in Ripon and marrying in Auckland. Sarah Ann Spence was a milliner in Ripon 1881 - went bankrupt in 1889 and disappeared - perhaps she changed her name! Jean

Jean, Don't jump to hasty conclusions. The sons may be his but not hers. The children might all be her step-children. kindest regards, Peter Appleton -----Original Message----- From: eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jean Greenwood Sent: 02 February 2008 12:06 To: eng-north-yorks@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] 1901 look up please Thank you Rosemary. As this couple have grown up sons they're obviously not the 1896 marriage so my Sarah Ann remains a mystery! Thanks again Jean ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Rosemary. As this couple have grown up sons they're obviously not the 1896 marriage so my Sarah Ann remains a mystery! Thanks again Jean

Hi Jean, Here is this family: Fred Simpson 25 Joseph Simpson 31 Mark Simpson 23 Sarah Ann Simpson 54 Sarah Jane Simpson 20 William Simpson 56 William Simpson 12 Class: RG13; Piece: 4042; Folio: 33; Page: 7 Image sent off line, Rosemary Northumberland UK Email: rosemary@high-forest.co.uk Family History: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rprobert/ Banburyshire Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engcbanb/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jean Greenwood wrote: > I feel rather cheeky asking for 2 look ups in one week but this is the > last of this family and I don't want to resubscribe to Ancestry etc just > for 1 set of details. > > I now think that Sarah Ann Spence who was 'missing' from 1891 census > married 1896 to William SIMPSON IN Auckland and they were living there > in 1901. Ancestry index shows Sarah Ann SIMPSON born 1847 Ripon and > spouse William 1849 so dates are abt right. Please can anyone suppply > the other details so I can decide whether to order marr cert. > > Your help much appreciated > Jean

I feel rather cheeky asking for 2 look ups in one week but this is the last of this family and I don't want to resubscribe to Ancestry etc just for 1 set of details. I now think that Sarah Ann Spence who was 'missing' from 1891 census married 1896 to William SIMPSON IN Auckland and they were living there in 1901. Ancestry index shows Sarah Ann SIMPSON born 1847 Ripon and spouse William 1849 so dates are abt right. Please can anyone suppply the other details so I can decide whether to order marr cert. Your help much appreciated Jean

Al, lots of questions, I've just picked up on one at the moment. I remember looking at something online a while ago for my ancestors who lived in N Yorks and emigrated. Quite often the reason given was that the Landlord had suddenly put up the rents or just to get better opportunities. I am racking my brain to think what and where it was but if I can find it I'll let you know. They weren't in Alne but I would suspect circumstances were the same for lots of them Good luck Sheila -----Original Message----- From: eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Al Dodd Sent: 02 February 2008 07:08 To: eng-north-yorks@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] Dodd Ancestors - Alne, North Yorkshire During the last 20 years, I've been able to search my Dodd ancestors, back to 1600's. They lived at #2 Back Lane, Alne, North Yorkshire (1841 UK Census) up until 1842 when Thomas Dodd (b-13 May 1788) & wife Harriet (Pinkney) and several of their adult children, emigrated to farm in Markham Township, Ontario, Canada, which is a few miles north of Toronto. He was aged 54 when he emigrated. What was the impetuous for this move? Was it the Reformation Act? Does anyone have copies of advertisements from local papers promoting emigration to Canada at that time? Would you know how to track their move to Canada? What would be their port of departure? I have only been able to find them listed in the 1851 Canadian Cenus and wish to research more details on the 10 year gap in my research. Would you know when their son, Thomas Dodd (christened 13 Oct 1817 in Alne) married his wife Johanna (?). Their children were born in Ontario, Canada starting in 1843. Johanna (Joanna or Hanna from other records) lists her country of birth as England. Did they marry before departure or after? The internet UK FreeBDM records are difficult to decipher as we can only see one member of the couple at a time. With about 200 Thomas Dodd UK marriages in the 5 year possible time span, it is almost impossible to filter out details without more information. My research indicates that many documents for Alne are archived in Northallerton. Would anyone be interesting in assisting in research of documents pertaining to my family's genealogy? Should you be a relative or someone, interested in genealogy, I would appreciate you posting a reply. Kindest regards Al Dodd Alberta, Canada aldodd@telus.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

During the last 20 years, I've been able to search my Dodd ancestors, back to 1600's. They lived at #2 Back Lane, Alne, North Yorkshire (1841 UK Census) up until 1842 when Thomas Dodd (b-13 May 1788) & wife Harriet (Pinkney) and several of their adult children, emigrated to farm in Markham Township, Ontario, Canada, which is a few miles north of Toronto. He was aged 54 when he emigrated. What was the impetuous for this move? Was it the Reformation Act? Does anyone have copies of advertisements from local papers promoting emigration to Canada at that time? Would you know how to track their move to Canada? What would be their port of departure? I have only been able to find them listed in the 1851 Canadian Cenus and wish to research more details on the 10 year gap in my research. Would you know when their son, Thomas Dodd (christened 13 Oct 1817 in Alne) married his wife Johanna (?). Their children were born in Ontario, Canada starting in 1843. Johanna (Joanna or Hanna from other records) lists her country of birth as England. Did they marry before departure or after? The internet UK FreeBDM records are difficult to decipher as we can only see one member of the couple at a time. With about 200 Thomas Dodd UK marriages in the 5 year possible time span, it is almost impossible to filter out details without more information. My research indicates that many documents for Alne are archived in Northallerton. Would anyone be interesting in assisting in research of documents pertaining to my family's genealogy? Should you be a relative or someone, interested in genealogy, I would appreciate you posting a reply. Kindest regards Al Dodd Alberta, Canada aldodd@telus.net

Dear all, Your comments on Levisham have been very helpful - so a big thankyou to all on the list who helped me out on this on. Zoe

Hi, hope you don't mind me putting my two-pence worth in. You have probably already found and eliminated my candidate for your Sarah but here goes. Being a single lady, perhaps therefore having no one close to whom she could turn to for help and support, during what was obviously a very difficult time for her - [that is loosing her business/livelihood of some twenty years] - one can assume that she was pretty depressed. Arguably the traumatic upheaval precipitate her early demise. With this in mind was the Sarah who died in the March quarter of 1891 your Sarah? If, God bless her, Sarah died suddenly without family or an intimate friend in attendance, then perhaps the death informant did not know her correct age. This would explain the age discrepancy. Dying in March she obviously could not appear in the June, 1891 census. James. SPENCE Sarah Ann 47 Wortley 9c 169 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila" <sheila.harris@wanadoo.fr> To: <eng-north-yorks@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] 1891 look up please > Jean I have had a good search in the 1891 census under Spence and/or Sarah > with or without the Ann with no joy. She doesn't appear in the deaths or > marriages in free BMD, or not obviously so, I also had a quick look in the > 1901 and couldn't find her. > I also looked in 1891 for 12 Market place her home in 1881, The census > enumerated 10 and then jumped to 13 so no joy there, > I have Ripon PRs but they don't go far enough. > Sorry I couldn't be more help > Sheila > > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jean Greenwood > Sent: 31 January 2008 14:49 > To: eng-north-yorks@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] 1891 look up please > > > > I am hoping someone may be able to find in 1891 > > Sarah Ann SPENCE born 1848 Ripon > > In 1889 she was an unmarried milliner at Victoria House and in receivership > So far I have been unable to trace her. > > Any help appreciated. Thanks > > Jean > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi, Looking at transcripts of the 1851 & 1861 (Index es) I have found:- Leasom, Levisham, Levsam, Leasholme, - which could all be referring to the same place. and Westow as another possibility, depending on how you read the various hand-writings, and how the enumerator "heard" it. Regards, Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valerie Gilbert" <gilbert.valerie@btinternet.com> To: <Eng-North-Yorks-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 2:39 PM Subject: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] Levisham >I see from the 1851 census your Gawan PINKNEY worked on the railways. It > might help you to know that the North York Moors railway runs by Levisham. > . > > It would be a very likely occupation for a young man in that area to take > on > . It is now mainly a tourist line, but has been very important in 1800's > > Yes local accents could sound very shortened and an enumerator in > Hunmanby > 1851 might not hear or spell it correctly. > > Also helpful for you is that Gawan /Gawin is not a very common name. Do > you > know when he died? Is he in any other census.? > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Jean I have had a good search in the 1891 census under Spence and/or Sarah with or without the Ann with no joy. She doesn't appear in the deaths or marriages in free BMD, or not obviously so, I also had a quick look in the 1901 and couldn't find her. I also looked in 1891 for 12 Market place her home in 1881, The census enumerated 10 and then jumped to 13 so no joy there, I have Ripon PRs but they don't go far enough. Sorry I couldn't be more help Sheila -----Original Message----- From: eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jean Greenwood Sent: 31 January 2008 14:49 To: eng-north-yorks@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] 1891 look up please I am hoping someone may be able to find in 1891 Sarah Ann SPENCE born 1848 Ripon In 1889 she was an unmarried milliner at Victoria House and in receivership So far I have been unable to trace her. Any help appreciated. Thanks Jean ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have a copy of an old book about the Whitby and Pickering Railway, (part of which is now the North Yorkshire Moors Railway). In this book there is a section on pronunciation of place names in the 19th century. Without looking, the ones I remember are something like: Levisham = Leev'sham (Could be Leev'shan or Lee'shan) Grosmont = Growmond Whitby = Whidby Graham > Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:36:43 +0000> From: zoe.toft@kuvik.net> To: ENG-NORTH-YORKS-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] Pronunciation of Levisham> > Hello all,> > I have a relative, Gawan (Gawin) Pinkney, b. about 1814 in Yorkshire. On > the 1851 census his birth place is listed as "Leason". Could this be a > pronunciation of Levisham? (You can tell I'm not from Yorkshire!). I've > found the following record on the IGI:> > GAWAN PINKNEY Pedigree> Male > Event(s):> Birth:> Christening: > 27 SEP 1813 Levisham, Yorkshire, England> Death:> Burial: > Parents:> Father: JOSEPH PINKNEY Family> Mother: ANN > Messages:> Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the > record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the > birth or christening date > Source Information:> Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: > Printout Call No.: Type:> > C108491 1813 - 1864 0990905 Film 6911136 > Film> > > Sheet: 00> > > And I can't find any record of a place called Leason, hence my query - > but perhaps someone on the list can help me out?> > Many thanks> > Zoe> > > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Shiela Thank you so much for taking the time. I thought I must have missed her but you have confirmed my searches. Regards Jean

I see from the 1851 census your Gawan PINKNEY worked on the railways. It might help you to know that the North York Moors railway runs by Levisham. . It would be a very likely occupation for a young man in that area to take on . It is now mainly a tourist line, but has been very important in 1800's Yes local accents could sound very shortened and an enumerator in Hunmanby 1851 might not hear or spell it correctly. Also helpful for you is that Gawan /Gawin is not a very common name. Do you know when he died? Is he in any other census.?