Hi Laurel - there are a lot of SAYERS info going on in the Suffolk and Norfolk mailing lists at the moment. Bearing in mind that a lot of these people moved north for work when times were tough in the agricultural trades. Regards. Macha in NZ -----Original Message----- From: eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Laurel.Sayer@rbkc.gov.uk Sent: Thursday, 1 May 2008 9:31 p.m. To: eng-north-yorks@rootsweb.com; jill_greenwood@btinternet.com Subject: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] John SAYER of Whitby Jill, I've sent you a GEDCOM and some other information off list about the possible parentage of John Sayer of Whitby. Laurel Sayer (researching all instances of SAYER/SAYERS/SAIR/SAIER etc in Yorkshire, Durham, Westmorland. Also dipping my toes into Lancashire and Northumberland) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:18:08 +0100 (BST) From: Jill Greenwood <jill_greenwood@btinternet.com> Subject: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] SAYER Hello, I am new to this list and wonder whether anyone can help with the following, please. I have an admon dated May 1823 for John SAYER, late of Whitby, Mariner and Bachelor deceased. Admon granted to Thomas SAYER of the parish of Whitby and Elizabeth FRAIN of the same parish, widow (the brother & sister, only next of kin). Bonds for the administrators were William FOSTER of Whitby, sailor and William TAYLOR of Whitby, weaver. Can any SAYER researchers throw any light on which SAYER family this is, please? I cannot find a first marriage for Elizabeth but it looks as though she re-married in 1825 at St Mary's Whitby: May 23 Thomas Robinson*, widower, labourer & Elizabeth Frain*, widow, both of this parish, banns Wit Peter Cowart, Ralph Greenbury Cur Pope Many thanks, Jill Researching: SAYER(S); COLE; FRANKLAND; HARRISON; HARBRON/HEBRON - Whitby MILLER: Whitby, Sneaton, Barton le Street, Silksworth & Durham NICHOLSON: Bulmer, Barton le Street, Hinderskelfe ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1408 - Release Date: 30/04/2008 6:10 p.m.

Hi Jean, I don't have an answer to your problem, but I do know that mistakes can easily be made. In my husband's ancestry there were (at least) two mistakes. The IGI said that my husband's GGG Grandmother Ellen Plaxton was born to Charles and Ellen Plaxton. I'm 99% sure that the father was George (census and marriage certificate), in spite of checking both the PRs and the BTs and coming up with Charles. I'm almost as certain that Charles and his wife Mary had emigrated to Canada by the time Ellen was born, and my thoughts are that the vicar was discussing Charles' departure with George and accidentally wrote the wrong brother. These things happen. On a completely different part of the tree, and a marriage not a baptism, the bride's and groom's fathers' christian names were switched on the marriage certificate, James and John. In this case I could check up on the baptisms and realised the mistake. In your case, although I expect it is physically possible to have a baby at 9, I doubt if it has ever been legal to marry at such an early age. Could your Jane have been the daughter of Richard's brother, in a similar way to the scenario I described? It might be worth checking other EDENs born in the same area. The wording you have described is confusing to say the least!! I'm sorry I couldn't have been more help, but at least you know that mistakes do happen and that sooner or later we all end up going round the twist.....!!! Regards, Jan > From: jean.greenwood2@ntlworld.com> To: eng-north-yorks@rootsweb.com> Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 18:20:30 +0100> Subject: Re: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] A mother at 9?> > > Oh boy do I need some help - please !!> > The following bapt entry is from Topcliffe by Thirsk PRs and dated> 1778:-> > "Christopher 1st son of Christopher Forster of Rainton saddle> tree maker son of John of Rainton saddle tree maker by Jane his wife> daughter of Richard Eden of Kirby Knowle - and of Jane daughter of John> Dinnis of Rainton lab: by Dorothy daughter of John Ward of Middlesmoor> lab: and Ellen daughter of Thomas Walker of Flawith"> > If I am reading it correctly then Christopher is son of Christopher and> Jane {Dinnis] and I have a marriage for them 30th Aug 1776 - Christopher> was bapt 1749 at Topcliffe and Jane Dinnis 1753 at Coxwold so that's Ok> > The problem is with John's wife Jane dau of Richard Eden. I cannot find> a marr for these two but if Jane dau of Richard Eden is correct, she was> bapt 1740 in Kirby Knowle and so would have been only 9 when Christopher> [1749] bapt. I had hoped she might have had an adult bap but have> checked Kirby Knowle records - transcript from Cleveland & N Yorks FHS -> and all Richard's children between 1727 and 1743 appear to have been bap> in a regular order.> > I wonder did the cleric make a mistake - Jane did have a elder sister> Mary bapt 1734 - a bit more likely re: age, or there was a Jane dau> William Eden but she was bap 1700 and I believe she marr 1736 in Leake.> > Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can sort this out? I would really> appreciate any comments.> > Cheers> Jean [going slowly round the twist]> > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ All new Live Search at Live.com http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000006ukm/direct/01/

In a message dated 5/1/2008 7:17:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mjharrison@idirect.com writes: > There is also the possibility that she was not baptised until many years > after her birth. > > I have seen cases where two or three children were baptised at the same time. Maybe the preacher didn't come around often or at convenient time. ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

I was just wondering if anyone has access to Bossall marriage registers and could look up an entry for me. It is the marriage of William Firth and Mary Carr on the 13th of July 1797. Knowing what this entry says could break down one of my brick walls. Can anyone help ??? Will **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

Jean: There is also the possibility that she was not baptised until many years after her birth. Michael

Oh boy do I need some help - please !! The following bapt entry is from Topcliffe by Thirsk PRs and dated 1778:- "Christopher 1st son of Christopher Forster of Rainton saddle tree maker son of John of Rainton saddle tree maker by Jane his wife daughter of Richard Eden of Kirby Knowle - and of Jane daughter of John Dinnis of Rainton lab: by Dorothy daughter of John Ward of Middlesmoor lab: and Ellen daughter of Thomas Walker of Flawith" If I am reading it correctly then Christopher is son of Christopher and Jane {Dinnis] and I have a marriage for them 30th Aug 1776 - Christopher was bapt 1749 at Topcliffe and Jane Dinnis 1753 at Coxwold so that's Ok The problem is with John's wife Jane dau of Richard Eden. I cannot find a marr for these two but if Jane dau of Richard Eden is correct, she was bapt 1740 in Kirby Knowle and so would have been only 9 when Christopher [1749] bapt. I had hoped she might have had an adult bap but have checked Kirby Knowle records - transcript from Cleveland & N Yorks FHS - and all Richard's children between 1727 and 1743 appear to have been bap in a regular order. I wonder did the cleric make a mistake - Jane did have a elder sister Mary bapt 1734 - a bit more likely re: age, or there was a Jane dau William Eden but she was bap 1700 and I believe she marr 1736 in Leake. Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can sort this out? I would really appreciate any comments. Cheers Jean [going slowly round the twist]

Seeking information on the Cholmoley Players from the early 1600s. William Harrison was a member of this group and I am seeking more information on him. There is an article in the North Yorkshire County Record Journal - Volume 3, pg 95-130 but no copies of this exist in Toronto. The article in this journal is by G.W. Broddy and entitled "Players of Interludes in North Yorkshire in the Early Seventeenth Century". Would some kind soul be able to get a copy of this and pdf it? Thank you Michael Harrison TORONTO, CANADA

Jill, I've sent you a GEDCOM and some other information off list about the possible parentage of John Sayer of Whitby. Laurel Sayer (researching all instances of SAYER/SAYERS/SAIR/SAIER etc in Yorkshire, Durham, Westmorland. Also dipping my toes into Lancashire and Northumberland) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:18:08 +0100 (BST) From: Jill Greenwood <jill_greenwood@btinternet.com> Subject: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] SAYER Hello, I am new to this list and wonder whether anyone can help with the following, please. I have an admon dated May 1823 for John SAYER, late of Whitby, Mariner and Bachelor deceased. Admon granted to Thomas SAYER of the parish of Whitby and Elizabeth FRAIN of the same parish, widow (the brother & sister, only next of kin). Bonds for the administrators were William FOSTER of Whitby, sailor and William TAYLOR of Whitby, weaver. Can any SAYER researchers throw any light on which SAYER family this is, please? I cannot find a first marriage for Elizabeth but it looks as though she re-married in 1825 at St Mary's Whitby: May 23 Thomas Robinson*, widower, labourer & Elizabeth Frain*, widow, both of this parish, banns Wit Peter Cowart, Ralph Greenbury Cur Pope Many thanks, Jill Researching: SAYER(S); COLE; FRANKLAND; HARRISON; HARBRON/HEBRON - Whitby MILLER: Whitby, Sneaton, Barton le Street, Silksworth & Durham NICHOLSON: Bulmer, Barton le Street, Hinderskelfe

To all Sayers Mr Sayer in 1732 as noted as a Disenting Minister at Alnwick in the Lesbury records. They are all over the place jack.

Hello, I am new to this list and wonder whether anyone can help with the following, please. I have an admon dated May 1823 for John SAYER, late of Whitby, Mariner and Bachelor deceased. Admon granted to Thomas SAYER of the parish of Whitby and Elizabeth FRAIN of the same parish, widow (the brother & sister, only next of kin). Bonds for the administrators were William FOSTER of Whitby, sailor and William TAYLOR of Whitby, weaver. Can any SAYER researchers throw any light on which SAYER family this is, please? I cannot find a first marriage for Elizabeth but it looks as though she re-married in 1825 at St Mary's Whitby: May 23 Thomas Robinson*, widower, labourer & Elizabeth Frain*, widow, both of this parish, banns Wit Peter Cowart, Ralph Greenbury Cur Pope Many thanks, Jill Researching: SAYER(S); COLE; FRANKLAND; HARRISON; HARBRON/HEBRON - Whitby MILLER: Whitby, Sneaton, Barton le Street, Silksworth & Durham NICHOLSON: Bulmer, Barton le Street, Hinderskelfe

Hi all: My ggggrandmother was Mary Hutchinson who married William Harrison in Egton on Jan 24, 1804. They emigrated to Canada in 1831 aboard the "King William" which left Whitby in April 1831 and arrived in Quebec in May 1831. They then travelled to Upper Canada (present day Ontario) and settled in Toronto Gore Township, Peel County. There were a number of other Hutchinsons here in the 1830s and 1840s before some went to Grey County. Some of the Hutchinsons may have come with the Harrisons in 1831 but some also came in 1832. There is a reference in a letter from John Dixon who was on the "Columbus" that left Whitby in 1832 who wrote to Mr. R. Frankland of Whitby after he reached Canada – in the letter he makes reference to William Hutchinson and his youngest child being ill on May 13th. It then mentions the child died on May 14th and was buried at sea. 1852 Canadian Census in Toronto Gore Township – Ann Hutchinson, aged 82 years (b c. 1768) - Matthew Hutchinson, aged 45 years (b c 1804) 1861 Canadian Census in Toronto Gore Township – Matthew Hutchinson, aged 62 years (b c. 1799) – same as above? Probably On August 22, 1833 there is the baptism of Thomas Hutchinson, aged 4 days, son of William Hutchinson and Susana Louie (??) in St. Patrick’s Wildfield – I am wondering if this might be William Hutchinson and Susanna Law married in Whitby, North Yorkshire on Jan 29, 1821 In 1834 the following Hutchinsons who signed a petition in Toronto Gore Township: - Matthew Hutchinson - William Hutchinson - Francis Hutchinson On May 11, 1840 Mathew Hutchaeson of the Gore (of Toronto) and the widow Small of Adjala (Township just to the north of Toronto Gore) were married On April 15, 1844 John Hutchinson married Harriet Bell in St. Patrick’s Roman Catholic Church in Wildfield, Peel County – this is the church the Harrisons worshipped at. They later had children baptised – William (3 weeks old March 23, 1845 – sponsor was Matthew Harrison (my gggrandfather) –John (3 weeks old Jan 10, 1847 – sponsors were William Harrison and Mary Harrison (probably Matthew’s brother William and his wife Mary O’Connor). This family later moved to Grey County - Collingwood Township. On July 20, 1845 there is the baptism of Ann 4 days old of the marriage of William Huchson and Margaret Talbot, Pinegrove There is a William Hutchinson, b, England, d. Aug 7, 1854 buried in St. Patrick’s RC Cemetery, Wildfield (same as above) I have an obituary of the death of a Francis Hutcheason on Monday Jan 9th, 1843 in the Township of the Gore of Toronto, Peel County (not sure where he is buried – not St. Patrick’s) Would love to hear from any researching this family. Thank you Michael

Jill, Welcome to the group... You say you are new to us. (Perhaps I know you from another group?). So welcome so glad you have stopped by. I don't have much help for you with the SAYER research ---but have you checked the census to see where Elizabeth Frain or Thomas Robinson or Mr. SAYER to see where they are from originally? Just my suggestion for your seaching... Best of luck to you... Margaret L. In a message dated 4/28/2008 7:26:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jill_greenwood@btinternet.com writes: Can any SAYER researchers throw any light on which SAYER family this is, please? I cannot find a first marriage for Elizabeth but it looks as though she re-married in 1825 at St Mary's Whitby: May 23 Thomas Robinson*, widower, labourer & Elizabeth Frain*, widow, both of this parish, banns Wit Peter Cowart, Ralph Greenbury Cur Pope **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)

Many thanks for this Sheryl. Although not a direct ancestor I had assumed that John had died prior to 1841 as I could not find him on this census. This has given me another lead to follow, thank you. regards Graham

Hi Mary Lou, Thanks for looking but I don't think they are a match. The Pearey's I am aware of don't tend to be active in the York and Easingwold area until the late 1800s and instead tend to be concentrated around the Stokesley, Great Ayton and Guisborough areas. It hasn't helped my search with the surname sounding similar to the Parry and Perry names although I have also found Pearey spelt Peree, Peiry and Piery. Thanks again Graham

Hi Graham, I don't know if this is a relative of yours but I have found a momental inscription for a John & Joseph PEAREY at St. Aidans, Boosbeck. It reads: "In loving memory of JOHN PEAREY died July 8, 1907 aged 71 years. Also JOSEPH grandson of the above died November 15, 1902 aged 2 years 10 months." Sheryl Wilson British Columbia, Canada I've been trying to find the parents and/or siblings of John Pearey/Peary who I found by chance on the census a while ago. He was born around 1821 in Newby, near Stokesley. I've managed to find him on the census from 1851-1891 living in Guisborough but not on the 1841 census nor on an IGI search. I've tried searching under Pearey, Peary and Pearcy which are the main variations, however have had no luck. There are a couple of John Pearcy's born 1821 on the 1841 census but the locations don't seem to fit. I know he married Elizabeth Wynn in 1852 and had at least 7 children, however, on checking his marriage certificate it was not clear who his father was (possibly William or John although the writing is hard to make out). I have 3 other Pearey's in my family tree, Ann (c1797), William (1799) and John (1806) who are all born in Newby and could well be related, however, I cannot find a link for John to these 3. William is the likely candidate as he married Elizabeth Mankin in 1820 in Ormesby but he does not appear to have any children until Thomas in 1826 who is baptised in Great Ayton. Graham Pearey ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1395 - Release Date: 4/24/2008 7:24 AM

Hi Graham......possible?? JOHN PERRY Baptised September 4, 1825 Easingwold, Yorkshire Parents: William & Charlotte Perry mary lou **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)

Hi, I've been trying to find the parents and/or siblings of John Pearey/Peary who I found by chance on the census a while ago. He was born around 1821 in Newby, near Stokesley. I've managed to find him on the census from 1851-1891 living in Guisborough but not on the 1841 census nor on an IGI search. I've tried searching under Pearey, Peary and Pearcy which are the main variations, however have had no luck. There are a couple of John Pearcy's born 1821 on the 1841 census but the locations don't seem to fit. I know he married Elizabeth Wynn in 1852 and had at least 7 children, however, on checking his marriage certificate it was not clear who his father was (possibly William or John although the writing is hard to make out). I have 3 other Pearey's in my family tree, Ann (c1797), William (1799) and John (1806) who are all born in Newby and could well be related, however, I cannot find a link for John to these 3. William is the likely candidate as he married Elizabeth Mankin in 1820 in Ormesby but he does not appear to have any children until Thomas in 1826 who is baptised in Great Ayton. I'm hoping to get to Northallerton to look at the Stokesley parish registers for this period but would really appreciate it if anyone could help me in the meantime. many thanks in advance Graham Pearey

It can also mean that,when the mother died at the birth or was ill afterwards, the baby was "farmed out", if not it would almost certainly die through lack of milk so is not always a horror story -----Original Message----- From: eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-north-yorks-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of DianneSlipkid@comcast.net Sent: 20 April 2008 16:57 To: eng-north-yorks@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] what is a "nurse child"? Did a quick search "Nurse Child census listing"--- This was copied from Rootschat forum 2005: Some of nastiness described below no doubt happened, but in other reads the mother was able to be reunited with her child after her cimcumstances changed for the better. More reading available for you there in Rootschat... Often, when transcribing 19th-century censuses, I would come across the phrase "Nurse Child" but would not know what was meant. I have discovered that this phrase hides a very tragic story relating to illegitimate or unwanted children. Before the Elizabethan poorlaw was changed in the 19th-century care of illegitimate children and their mothers was haphazard. The 19th-century poor law changed this and placed the responsibility on the mother. Most times, she was unable to hold a job and to feed the infant. One solution to her problem was the baby farmer. This person would for a small fee, offer to take care of the infant. As soon as the money stopped coming (or before), the infant would be starved to death or just dumped in a convenient place. This procedure continued until the end of the century when horror stories in the newspapers, compelled the government to act. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

----- Original Message ----- From: <DianneSlipkid@comcast.net> To: <eng-north-yorks@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:57 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-NORTH-YORKS] what is a "nurse child"? > Did a quick search "Nurse Child census listing"--- > This was copied from Rootschat forum 2005: Some of nastiness described > below no doubt happened, but in other reads the mother was able to be > reunited with her child after her cimcumstances changed for the better. > More reading available for you there in Rootschat... > > Often, when transcribing 19th-century censuses, I would come across the > phrase "Nurse Child" but would not know what was meant. > I have discovered that this phrase hides a very tragic story relating to > illegitimate or unwanted children. Before the Elizabethan poorlaw was > changed in the 19th-century care of illegitimate children and their > mothers was haphazard. The 19th-century poor law changed this and placed > the responsibility on the mother. Most times, she was unable to hold a > job and to feed the infant. > One solution to her problem was the baby farmer. This person would for a > small fee, offer to take care of the infant. As soon as the money stopped > coming (or before), the infant would be starved to death or just dumped in > a convenient place. > This procedure continued until the end of the century when horror stories > in the newspapers, compelled the government to act. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-NORTH-YORKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Did a quick search "Nurse Child census listing"--- This was copied from Rootschat forum 2005: Some of nastiness described below no doubt happened, but in other reads the mother was able to be reunited with her child after her cimcumstances changed for the better. More reading available for you there in Rootschat... Often, when transcribing 19th-century censuses, I would come across the phrase "Nurse Child" but would not know what was meant. I have discovered that this phrase hides a very tragic story relating to illegitimate or unwanted children. Before the Elizabethan poorlaw was changed in the 19th-century care of illegitimate children and their mothers was haphazard. The 19th-century poor law changed this and placed the responsibility on the mother. Most times, she was unable to hold a job and to feed the infant. One solution to her problem was the baby farmer. This person would for a small fee, offer to take care of the infant. As soon as the money stopped coming (or before), the infant would be starved to death or just dumped in a convenient place. This procedure continued until the end of the century when horror stories in the newspapers, compelled the government to act.