I'm fairly sure the Borthwick Institute had records of the above. Suggest you get in touch as they were always very helpful regarding such records. Tillie >-- Original Message -- >From: Gill Walmsley <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:41:39 +0100 (CET) >To: [email protected] >Subject: [NYorks] Nrth Riding Asylum/Clifton Hospital > > >Hi all, >I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about the above institution - the >North Riding Asylum (or Clifton Hospital). I believe one of my missing ancestors >may be there in the 1861 census and I'm wondering if there's any records >that survive for it? >Any suggestions most appreciated! >Best wishes, >Gill > > >==== ENG-NORTH-YORKS Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from the ENG-NORTH-YORKS list, send the command "unsubscribe" >to >[email protected] (if in mail mode) or >[email protected] (if in digest mode.) > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > ___________________________________________________________ Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/

Hi Ailsa, I've been reading this conversation with much interest, as I too have noticed the same in my family. I'm especially interested in the naming tendencies, as the same happened in my family - they always named their children family names, for about 150 years, and then all of a sudden... almost precisely after 1890 it seems!... they all start to name their children names that they obivously just liked. Was there any reason behind this rapid change, or was it just a change in fashion? I've always been particularly interested in names and naming patterns, and agree that this is another very interesting angle on social history. Best wishes and good look in your research! Gill ======================================== Message Received: Jan 23 2006, 08:11 PM From: "Ailsa Petrie" To: [email protected] Cc: Subject: Re: [NYorks] Family Size in England 1920-1940 Hi Peter, I'm pleased that I wasn't imagining it! I have noted other patterns in my family, too, which makes an interesting social comment of the times. Does the following compare with your research, too? Before the 1891 census, farmers' daughters married farmers' sons and those sons invariably worked with their fathers, the majority living with their parents until marriage. After 1891, sons were working for others and by the 1901 census, even many daughters were working and living away from the family home. Farmers' daughters didn't marry farmers' sons, either, but men in a range of occupations, including a lot of railway employees. In my family, it began a move outwards to other areas, although most appear to have stayed within Yorkshire. The other pattern I've noted is that after 1891, a wide range of new names were used for their children, instead of those of generations passed. William, John, James & Robert etc., gave way to Norman, Kenneth, Stanley and Maurice; Hannah, Mary, Elizabeth and Jane etc., gave way to Muriel, Beatrice, Florence and Elsie. It all reflects the changes in society, doesn't it, something I find fascinating. It's a history in itself, from a different angle. Regards Ailsa Peter Appleton wrote: > Hi Ailsa, > > I hadn't noticed it until you mentioned it but, yes, the same pattern is > there in my family tree. My grandparents on both sides were having their > respective families during the 1920s. Each had only three children. Yet, > individually three of them were from a much larger family: Fred APPLETON was > one of 10 (9 surviving past infancy), Thomas EVANS was one of 12 (10 > surviving infancy), Hannah Mary APPLETON (nee FAWCETT) was one of 11 (only 6 > surviving infancy) whilst Evelyn EVANS (nee BOWERS) was one of 4. > > regards, > > Peter Appleton -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.22/238 - Release Date: 23/01/2006 ==== ENG-NORTH-YORKS Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from the ENG-NORTH-YORKS list, send the command "unsubscribe" to [email protected] (if in mail mode) or [email protected] (if in digest mode.) ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

Hi all, I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about the above institution - the North Riding Asylum (or Clifton Hospital). I believe one of my missing ancestors may be there in the 1861 census and I'm wondering if there's any records that survive for it? Any suggestions most appreciated! Best wishes, Gill

Hi Gill, The records are kept at the Borthwick in York and they do have some very detailed records, including detailed case notes death details and other information. Some of the later records also include photos. Well worth viewing if you get the chance, I have found a few of my lot in the records, some are very sad. One frequent cause appears to be "kicked in the head by a horse" I suppose this was a common occurance in those days. Cheers Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gill Walmsley" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:41 PM Subject: [NYorks] Nrth Riding Asylum/Clifton Hospital > Hi all, > I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about the above institution - the > North Riding Asylum (or Clifton Hospital). I believe one of my missing > ancestors may be there in the 1861 census and I'm wondering if there's any > records that survive for it? > Any suggestions most appreciated! > Best wishes, > Gill

Hello Laurel, Peter and Colin, Thank you for your contributions and thoughts. I have checked the original census images against the reference given and am none the wiser. On the 1851 census, "Falton" is the word written by the enumerator. I checked through the index to see whether the enumerator's "F" may actually be "S" but found instances where the word "Farm" had been written by the same enumerator and the "Fs" were the same. On the 1861 census, "Spanton" does not change to Spaunton but this may have been a mis-spelling on the part of the enumerator. On the 1871 census, Fowston does not change to Fewston but that still does not give any clues as to what the enumerator heard. Colin - you were correct in saying I had confused parishes with places. As far as the mis-spelling/reading/pronounciation of Malton is concerned, the enumerator in each census took the trouble to note that the ARRUNDELL children were born at Old Malton which is why differing places of birth for Sarah Arrundell's (nee Smith) are proving to be such a puzzle. Regards, Pat Smith

I have been doing some intensive searching of GRO Indexes for the period 1920-1940 and it has raised an issue that interests me. In the families I have been searching for, it seems that the numbers of children born has dropped markedly, to 1 or 2 children per family. A far cry from earlier generations. Of course, I know that there were larger families, but I am curious to learn whether there was a general drop in England's birthrate at that time. Maybe it's just my imagination. Have other researchers found something similar in the families they are researching? I would welcome some information. Ailsa Petrie Hamilton New Zealand -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 20/01/2006

Hello everyone, I am searching for parents for Thomas Wrather bc 1749 who married Ann Metcalf from Healey in Masham in 1772. Thomas stayed in Fearby and generations down, he was a blacksmith. Although there was a family of Wrathers in Kirby Malzeard I cannot connect them with mine. Thomas's birth is not registered in Masham so I believe he came from another village. Also searching for the father of Samuel Rather bc 1718 Yorkshire Masham area who went to Virginia around 1738. Anything would help. Sue.

Hi List I am now searching for children of Fred Trerise White b 1880 and Margaret Durrant b 1882 both of Middlesbro. Does anyone know anything of this couple Also Grace Heslop White b 1882 married Vincent Dodsworth in 1918 Many thanks Linda Western Australia

Images for 1891 and 1901 sent In 1891 Harry/Henry was in Danby Wiske with married sister Mary Peacock. In 1901 he was with parents, John and Fanny in Thrintoft Sue Tomkins (wasn't sure if anyone had answered previously)

It's called: access to forms of birth control and change in attitude of Church The Rhythm Method (with a rather high method failure rate of 10% per year) was developed in the early 20th century, as researchers discovered that a woman only ovulates once per menstrual cycle. Mass production of condoms started in the mid-19th century, shortly after the invention of the rubber vulcanization process. Until the 1930s, condoms were made from rubber; they were still quite uncomfortable and expensive (though reusable) and thus only available to a small part of the population. When latex condoms at last became available in late 1930s, it was a leap forward in effectiveness and affordability. Christianity in general has had mixed opinions towards contraception and its role in society in recent years. Prior to the 1930s, contraception was generally condemned by all the major branches of Christianity, including by major reformers like Luther and Calvin. This condemnation was relaxed by the Anglican Communion at the 1930 Lambeth Conference, and most Protestant groups followed suit over the course of the 20th century, though some individual Protestants adhere to the traditional view that contraception is wrong ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ailsa Petrie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [NYorks] Family Size in England 1920-1940 > Hi Peter, > > I'm pleased that I wasn't imagining it! I have noted other patterns in my > family, too, which makes an interesting social comment of the times. Does > the following compare with your research, too? > > Before the 1891 census, farmers' daughters married farmers' sons and those > sons invariably worked with their fathers, the majority living with their > parents until marriage. After 1891, sons were working for others and by > the 1901 census, even many daughters were working and living away from the > family home. Farmers' daughters didn't marry farmers' sons, either, but > men in a range of occupations, including a lot of railway employees. In my > family, it began a move outwards to other areas, although most appear to > have stayed within Yorkshire. > > The other pattern I've noted is that after 1891, a wide range of new names > were used for their children, instead of those of generations passed. > William, John, James & Robert etc., gave way to Norman, Kenneth, Stanley > and Maurice; Hannah, Mary, Elizabeth and Jane etc., gave way to Muriel, > Beatrice, Florence and Elsie. > > It all reflects the changes in society, doesn't it, something I find > fascinating. It's a history in itself, from a different angle. > > Regards > Ailsa > > Peter Appleton wrote: >> Hi Ailsa, >> >> I hadn't noticed it until you mentioned it but, yes, the same pattern is >> there in my family tree. My grandparents on both sides were having their >> respective families during the 1920s. Each had only three children. Yet, >> individually three of them were from a much larger family: Fred APPLETON >> was >> one of 10 (9 surviving past infancy), Thomas EVANS was one of 12 (10 >> surviving infancy), Hannah Mary APPLETON (nee FAWCETT) was one of 11 >> (only 6 >> surviving infancy) whilst Evelyn EVANS (nee BOWERS) was one of 4. >> >> regards, >> >> Peter Appleton > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.22/238 - Release Date: > 23/01/2006 > > > ==== ENG-NORTH-YORKS Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the ENG-NORTH-YORKS list, send the command > "unsubscribe" to > [email protected] (if in mail mode) or > [email protected] (if in digest mode.) > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >

Hi Ailsa, May I suggest that Marie Stopes may well have had a strong influence on the birth rate around the early 1900's. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Wstopes.htm Regards, Michele -----Original Message----- From: Ailsa Petrie [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 23 January 2006 06:26 To: [email protected] Subject: [NYorks] Family Size in England 1920-1940 I have been doing some intensive searching of GRO Indexes for the period 1920-1940 and it has raised an issue that interests me. In the families I have been searching for, it seems that the numbers of children born has dropped markedly, to 1 or 2 children per family.<snip>

Thank you Peter for the information on White/Peacock. Now I need to trace the Peacocks of Barnard Castle and see if any of these children married. Another line of enquiry to keep me busy. Many thanks Linda Western Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Appleton" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 4:59 PM Subject: RE: [NYorks] White/Peacock > Hi Linda, > > Found your WHITE family in 1891 as follows: > > Class: RG12 Piece: 3999 Folio: 137 Page: 33 Schedule: 196 > Civil Parish: Redcar > Town, Village or Hamlet: Redcar > Rural Sanitary District: Redcar > Parliamentary Borough or Division: Cleveland > Ecclesiastical Parish: St.Peter Redcar > Address: Albert Street > George White, Head, Married, 36, Clerk Ironworks, Yorks Hoyland > Jane Maria White, Wife, Married, 38, , Durham Barnard Castle > Fred White, Son, , 10, Scholar, Yorks Middlesbrough > George White, Son, , 8 (corrected to 5), Scholar, Durham Stockton > Tom White, Son, , 4, , Durham Stockton > Ernest White, Son, , 2, , Northants Wellingbro > Edna White, Daug, , 4 months, , Yorks Redcar > > And in 1901 as follows: > Class: RG13 Piece: 4570 Folio: 47 Page: 27 Schedule: 179 > Civil Parish: Redcar > Ecclesiastical Parish: St.Peters > Urban District: Redcar > Ward of Urban District: Old Redcar > Parliamentary Borough or Division: Cleveland > Town, Village or Hamlet: Redcar > Address: 2 Wilton Place > Jane Maria White, Head, Widow, 48, , Durham Barnard Castle > Fred T White, Son, Single, 20, Works labourer, Durham Middlesbrough > Grace H White, Daug, Single, 18, Boatshop assistant, Durham Middlesbrough > George White, Son, Single, 17, Boatshop assistant, Durham Stockton > Tom White, Son, Single, 14, Errand boy, Yorks Thornaby > Ernest White, Son, Single, 12, , Northants Wellingbro > Edna White, Daug, Single, 10, , Yorks Redcar > > When Grace failed to turn up in 1891 I assumed she had died. But when she > turned up in 1901 I revisited 1891. I tried all combinations of > Fanny/Grace/Heslop White born 1882 +/-5 in Yorkshire and again in Durham. > No > hits. I suspect that, in transferring data from the individual household > sheets to the summaries which we use, the enumerator has inadvertently > omitted her. > > One additional point, drawn from personal/local knowledge... > George White was a Clerk in the Ironworks in 1891. These would have been > the > works located at Warrenby just to the west of Redcar. Although these works > are no more, the site is occupied by the present day Corus Steelworks. > These > occupy an area of some 5 kilometres by 4 kilometres on the south bank of > the > River Tees near its mouth. > > The birth of Ernest White in Northamtonshire is not unreasonable since > there > were iron and steel works at Corby in Northamptonshire. I'm not sure when > these first started up but there is still a steel rolling mill there > (again, > part of the Corus business). It could be that George moved to that area > for > a time and then moved back north again. > > regards, > > Peter Appleton > > My Family Tree website: http:/www.tribalpages.com/tribes/pappleton3 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Linda Livingstone [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 20 January 2006 04:12 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [NYorks] White/Peacock > > Hello List, > > I am seeking information on George White b Jun 1854 in Hoyland Nether, > West > Yorks and Jane Maria Peacock m 1880 St John's Middlesbro. > Children > > Fred Trerise b 1880 > Fanny Grace Heslop b1882 > George Valentine b 1883 > Tom b ? > Edna b ? > > Can anyone do a census lookup 1891 and 1901, probably in Stockton, for me > or > is anyone researching these names as this is a complete brick wall. Many > thanks > > Linda > Western Australia > > > ==== ENG-NORTH-YORKS Mailing List ==== > List Mom for ENG-NORTH-YORKS-L: > Diana Boothe [email protected] > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta > rgetid=5429 > > > > > ==== ENG-NORTH-YORKS Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the ENG-NORTH-YORKS list, send the command > "unsubscribe" to > [email protected] (if in mail mode) or > [email protected] (if in digest mode.) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Hi Ailsa, I hadn't noticed it until you mentioned it but, yes, the same pattern is there in my family tree. My grandparents on both sides were having their respective families during the 1920s. Each had only three children. Yet, individually three of them were from a much larger family: Fred APPLETON was one of 10 (9 surviving past infancy), Thomas EVANS was one of 12 (10 surviving infancy), Hannah Mary APPLETON (nee FAWCETT) was one of 11 (only 6 surviving infancy) whilst Evelyn EVANS (nee BOWERS) was one of 4. regards, Peter Appleton My Family Tree website: http:/www.tribalpages.com/tribes/pappleton3 -----Original Message----- From: Ailsa Petrie [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 23 January 2006 06:26 To: [email protected] Subject: [NYorks] Family Size in England 1920-1940 I have been doing some intensive searching of GRO Indexes for the period 1920-1940 and it has raised an issue that interests me. In the families I have been searching for, it seems that the numbers of children born has dropped markedly, to 1 or 2 children per family. A far cry from earlier generations. Of course, I know that there were larger families, but I am curious to learn whether there was a general drop in England's birthrate at that time. Maybe it's just my imagination. Have other researchers found something similar in the families they are researching? I would welcome some information. Ailsa Petrie Hamilton New Zealand -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 20/01/2006 ==== ENG-NORTH-YORKS Mailing List ==== Check out other genealogy resources on the net at John Fuller's most helpful site http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail.html ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Hi Margaret, I'm planning on going to Teesside Archives on Wednesday. They have the PRs for Brotton St.Margaret. I have a very full programme of my own research and some lookups to do for others already, but if I have time, I'll do your lookups. Who are you after? regards, Peter Appleton My Family Tree website: http:/www.tribalpages.com/tribes/pappleton3 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 17 January 2006 19:18 To: [email protected] Subject: [NYorks] Brotton marriage Good Evening, If anyone has access to Brotton marriages/or visits Northallerton, be able to look up a possible marriage for me? I have names & years. Thank you, Margaret. ==== ENG-NORTH-YORKS Mailing List ==== List Mom for ENG-NORTH-YORKS-L: Diana Boothe [email protected] ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Hi folks, Just a note of thanks to Laurel, Jo, Diane and Jenny for their replies to my posting on the above subject. To Laurel, thanks for reminding me about the problems of poor transcriptions in the online databases. To Jo and Diane especially, thanks for offering two fresh pairs of eyes. That's a very generous offer which, if you don't mind, I'll park for the moment. I've been trying to come at my problem from a totally different direction and, whilst I still haven't found him in 1861 or 1871, I have amassed a lot of info about his various relatives (antecedents and descendents). I need to analyse this to see just what it is that I have really learned. I also need to visit Teesside Archives to check out some PR entries. I may be back to you to take up your offer. To Jenny, thanks for your comprehensive explanation about ships and institutions in the censuses. Lots of useful background info there that will, undoubtedly, come in handy in the future. regards, Peter Appleton My Family Tree website: http:/www.tribalpages.com/tribes/pappleton3

Hi I would like to thank anybody who replied to my message re the Holmes & Hornby who were coal miners in Bilsdale. I cannot connect them to my tree but they could be connected re another line. There are a great number of families with those names in the area. Mary Lamport --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.

Hi All: Would anyone have any information on the mines at Rosedale in North Yorkshrie? My great grandfather worked there. Thanks for any help you can give me, Joan

Hi Joan, Thanks. Janice > Hi Janice: > > I have checked all my Pickerings and do not find a William who married > Tamar. Sorry. However I will keep your email address and if I see > anything > down the road will let you know. > > Best reagrds, > Joan > ----- Original Message -----

Hi all, Can anyone help ? I have found in the 1901 census a 'HARRY LIGHTFOOT' aged 27, born Thrintoft, but I only have access to the index for this census, so I do not know the father's name or family members. The only one anywhere near in the 1881 census is 'HENRY LIGHTFOOT' aged 8, born Thrintoft. Parents are John, (53) and Fanny (44) If anyone has access to the 1891 census and can let me have a copy of the entry, I would be grateful. Or if you can look to see if the 1901 census parents are the same I would be grateful, best regards, Terry

Hi Janice: I have checked all my Pickerings and do not find a William who married Tamar. Sorry. However I will keep your email address and if I see anything down the road will let you know. Best reagrds, Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janice Wood" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [NYorks] Holmes of Helmsley & Bilsdale Colliers > Hi Mary, > > My husband's gg.grandmother is Mary Ann HOLMES, who lived at > Bilsdale/Hawnby/Snilesworth. Not miners, but I am not sure if this family is > connected to those HOLMES who were in Bilsdale 50 years earlier, - Mary > Ann's father was born in Nesfield, in the parish of Ilkley, in the West > Riding of Yorkshire. He was a gamekeeper, back in Ilkley and in Snilesworth, > so it is most likely to have been work that took him there, but he may have > gone there because of family. If you find any connection, I would be > interested. > > Regards, > Janice Wood > www.btinternet.com/~jansfamily/ > www.yorkshireancestors.com > www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org > in North Yorkshire > Researching: > BANKS, BEALL, BULMER, CALVERT, COCKERILL, FISHER, FOX, FOXTON, GARBUT, > HARRISON, HAWKINS, HOLYDAY, HURD, KIRK, LOWTHER, MATTISON, NAWTON, > PATTISON, PICKARD, PICKERING, POTTER, SCAIFE, SHOUT, SIMPSON, SKILBECK, > STAINTHORPE, STONEHOUSE, THOMPSON, TRENHOLM(E), WARRINER, WEATHERILL, > WEDGEWOOD, WILSON, and WOOD. > > > Hi > > Many people have coal miners on the North Yorkshire Moors in their tree > > and I wondered if anybody could help me. William Holmes m Jane Hornby in > > Helmsley 20 Feb 1808. He was a collier in Bilsdale. I can go no further. > > Many Holmes lived & worked a Coal miners but I cannot connect them all > > together. > > Any Ideas > > Mary Lamport > > > > > > ==== ENG-NORTH-YORKS Mailing List ==== > Check out other genealogy resources on the net at John Fuller's most helpful site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail.html > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429 > >